Professional Conversion Programme for Registered Nurses/Nanyang Polytechnic Diploma in Nursing(PCP)

Kyoji83

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As per PM request, those who are interested in Professional Conversion Programme (PCP) for Registered Nurses [Nanyang Polytechnic Diploma in Nursing(PCP)], please see below links for my consolidated comments from other thread.

1)
There are students who fail to pass out from Professional Conversion Programme (PCP) for Registered Nurses & now in heavy debts (Estimated $70K for 1st year & $170K for 2nd year onward) due to various reasons like Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent. Failure rate always around 20% (about 4 to 5 person) per cohort.

2)
Professional Conversion Programme (PCP) for Registered Nurses is a 2 years Full Time course for Singaporean & PR to be bond them for 3 years as Registered Nurse upon graduating from Diploma(Nursing).

You will only see the Contract after signing Letter of Undertaking for $1K of Liquidated Damages (LD)if you decided not to take up PCP sponsorship after NYP offer you a seat.

-----------------------------------------------------------

This is the estimated Estimated amount of liquidated damages upon signing deed (Training allowance is $1,900 per month upon signing deed)

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $69,005.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($69,005.86 + $39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $146,947.31

However there is an increment of allowance from $1,900 to $2,050. So now the new estimated amount of liquidated damages is:

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $70,985.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($70,985.86+ $39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $151,105.31

* Remark: Depending on sponsoring hospital, some will included medical checkup & injection fees for DL. For this computation of LD is without it.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Singapore Workforce Development Agency (WDA) stated that total liquidated damages (including full course fees, training allowances and career transition bonus) at the point of training completion could amount to roughly be $125,000 which is not the true facts!

I suspected that NYP give to WDA, Ministry of Health (MOH), MOH Holdings (MOHH) and sponsoring hospitals a estimated course fees of $39,782.60 per year to draft sponsorship contract. After NYP decided to charge $34,475.40 that year without allowing student to have Subsidy like MOE*Tuition*Grant to sponsoring hospital.

Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

During that year, Full time 3 years normal Diploma courses for Singaporean is $19,881.60, PR is $22,695.70 & International Students is $26,218.70 as Non*subsidised*Student for that year. So why did NYP charge a high price of $34,475.40 or unacceptable purchasing procedures without anyone like Auditor General's Office (AGO) questioning? To add on, why Singaporeans & PRs are not given Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP)?

-----------------------------------------------------------

I have actually ask FTs who are under sponsorship for 3 years normal Diploma courses & their reply is they do not know their actual amount for LD. Their surety are FTs who mostly like their parent in their home country like China. If they run away, by right Singapore Government (sponsors) needs to engage Lawyer at China to demand for DL payment. However I never hear any sponsors doing that.

For PCP, there is no way to run cause both student & surety are local.

3)
If Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent, how to follow up when everything is squeeze into 2 years?

4)
I was the 4th student to dropout from my PCP-RN cohort.

My senior fail his Pre-registration consolidation programme (PRCP) twice & now facing more problem then me.

There are a lot of PCP students/graduates regret signing up.

-----------------------------------

Addition Information to those who are interested about salary package & career advancement for PCP-RN

1) You will only know your basic salary when they offered an employment contract after you graduate from Diploma.

2) Sponsoring hospital claim that your non-relevant or relevant experience, Nursing School results & etc will be a factor to be consider into deciding your salary package.

3) Our sources from my seniors & their seniors is basic salary will be S$2,300 & those who serve NS will be S$2,500 regardless of what spell out in point 2. Same route of advancement as normal diploma holders but high expectation because we are mid-career switch. As mature 'Fresh RN' who have many years of non-relevant experience in workforce, we tend to be able to perform better compare to Fresh RN teenagers that make it look like we have 'fast tread career advancement' which is not true.

5)
Not ready to share but as you read on, you may guess something.




1) PCP students may left school many years & have family commitment compare to full time students.

2) If Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent.

3) While full time student are taking around 5 core modules per semester, PCP student are taking 9 core modules per semester.

4) Full time student trained in Nursing Lab 1A & attend Clinical Placement 1A in semester 1 & they will take Nursing Lab 1B & attend Clinical Placement 1B in semester 2. PCP student trained in only Nursing Lab 1A but attended Clinical Placement 1A & partial 1B in semester 1. In short, PCP student are assess in Clinical Placement when they are not trained but during pre-Clinical Placement briefing, student are told not to perform skills if you are not trained.

5) It is up to Assessor to ask any questions (could be from other modules like Human Bioscience) for Nursing Lab test that is not taught in Nursing Lab by Lecturers and not shown in course materials.

6) Full time student have around 40 students in a class while my PCP class have only 25 students. During Nursing Lab Test, Assessor tend to give more chance to full time students by clearing them faster such asking easiler or less questions & move on if student unable to answer.

7) If Lecturers want to play you out, they will not be consistent with course materials by omitting or adding non-relevant information, procedure not in sequence & etc to your practicing/sub-group in Nursing Lab Test.

8) A Nursing Lab Test maybe 1 hour test with 2 skills (about 30 minutes per skill). Assessor can play you out by starting the test time but stop you from doing the skills until you answer all Assessor's questions in order to be 'safe' that can last up to 30 minutes or more which mean you will know that you will fail the test at that time.

9) When NYP Lecturers feel that you cannot perform, some of them will start to tort you by verbal and emotional abuse to affect your mental health. They will keep harassing you by stressing the increasing huge amount of liquidated damages when you stay longer in a course and keep asking you when you intend to quit.

6)
Due to limitation of PM word space, this is some of the clause that I am not comfortable with the contract.


1) For the avoidance of doubt, it is hereby agreed that any period of no-pay leave, study leave, training leave or National Service shall not be counted towards the discharge of Bonded Period and that without exceptional reason, the SPONSOR shall not grant any no-pay or study leave for the purposes of further studies or sponsor any such pursuit within the first 2 years of Boned Period.

2) wilfully and persistently disobeys or fails to conform with the lawful and reasonable orders or directions of the SPONSOR, the supervisors, tutors or instructors associated with the Course or the prescribed institutions; (Remark: I am not comfortable with this after withdraw from the course)

3) before the expiry of the Bonded Period, is dismissed from the service of the SPONSOR for misconduct, negligence, incompetence, poor work performance not meeting the SPONSOR's standard or breach of discipline or for any reason whatsoever, has his service terminated; (Remark: I am not comfortable with this after my senior feedback that when he started to work & have problem with "incompetence" & "poor work performance" in a community hospital where majorly of them are FT)

4) to absolve the SPONSOR, its servants and agents from all liability to the Trainee or his personal representatives for any loss, damage or injury howsoever occasioned (whether or not due to any act or omission or neglect of the Place of training werein the Trainee undertakes the Course, its servants and/or agents) which the Trainee may sustain by reason of or during the period of the Course; and

5) to indemnify, hold harmless and at the SPONSOR's request, defend the SPONSOR again all proceedings, suits, actions, claims, demands, damages, costs, losses and/or expenses [including court costs and fees of solicitors (on a full indemnity basis) and other professionals] whatsoever which may be taken or made again the SPONSOR or incurred or become payable by the SPONSOR in respect of any injury (whether fatal or otherwise) to any person or in respect of damage or loss to any property however occasioned, whether directly or indirectly by any act, omission, neglect or other default of the Trainee while on or otherwise in relation to or arising out of the Course.

6) in the event of fortuitous illness or physical or mental incapacity which, in the absolute opinion of the SPONSOR, renders the Trainee unable or unsuitable to complete the Course or if the Trainee shall, with the consent of the SPONSOR discontinue the Course or in the absolute opinion of the SPONSOR, the Trainee for good reason fails or is unable to complete the Course, the SPONSOR reserves the right, by giving 1 month's notice in writing to the Trainee, to withdraw or terminate the Sponsorship and crease paying the Training Allowance, and/or benefits set out in the Second Schedule hereto, whereupon the Trainee and/or the Sureties shall jointly and severally be liable to refund the SPONSOR the full amount of monies expended on the Trainee in respect of the Course up to the date of termination of Sponsorship;

7) Interest at the annual rate of 10% per annum will be due and payable to the party in receipt of an arbitration award from such date as the arbitration tribunal may decide until the date of payment to such party.

7)
All full time courses in public schools like ITE, Polytechnic & University have the same time for school holiday. That is the time where commander will consider to schedule ICT for NSmen reservist.

However for PCP student, we start 2 weeks earlier compare to Full time student. We only have 2 weeks school holiday after our Clinical Placement which is the end of semester. So NSmen will have problem for their ICT cause NYP only give you deferment letter but it is up to your NS unit to approve the deferment.

My classmates & my seniors were lucky to be SPF NSmen. They will received their estimated ICT schedule long before they received their NP76 for SPF NSmen (SAF100 for SAF & SCDF100 for SCDF NSmen). So they can make arrangement to reschedule their ICT during school holiday for PCP student.

So for those who want to sign up for PCP, better think twice because reservist is a liability for PCP student & you do not want this to be the cause of your liquidated damages.
 
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Kyoji83

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Since link is gone, I just share what I can remember. Will add on along the way.

-----------------------------------

I was the 4th student to dropout from my PCP-RN cohort.

My senior fail his Pre-registration consolidation programme (PRCP) twice & now facing more problem then me.

There are a lot of PCP students/graduates regret signing up.

-----------------------------------

Addition Information to those who are interested about salary package & career advancement for PCP-RN

1) You will only know your basic salary when they offered an employment contract after you graduate from Diploma.

2) Sponsoring hospital claim that your non-relevant or relevant experience, Nursing School results & etc will be a factor to be consider into deciding your salary package.

3) Our sources from my seniors & their seniors is basic salary will be S$2,300 & those who serve NS will be S$2,500 regardless of what spell out in point 2. Same route of advancement as normal diploma holders but high expectation because we are mid-career switch. As mature 'Fresh RN' who have many years of non-relevant experience in workforce, we tend to be able to perform better compare to Fresh RN teenagers that make it look like we have 'fast tread career advancement' which is not true.
 

Kyoji83

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All full time courses in public schools like ITE, Polytechnic & University have the same time for school holiday. That is the time where commander will consider to schedule ICT for NSmen reservist.

However for PCP student, we start 2 weeks earlier compare to Full time student. We only have 2 weeks school holiday after our Clinical Placement which is the end of semester. So NSmen will have problem for their ICT cause NYP only give you deferment letter but it is up to your NS unit to approve the deferment.

My classmates & my seniors were lucky to be SPF NSmen. They will received their estimated ICT schedule long before they received their NP76 for SPF NSmen (SAF100 for SAF & SCDF100 for SCDF NSmen). So they can make arrangement to reschedule their ICT during school holiday for PCP student.

So for those who want to sign up for PCP, better think twice because reservist is a liability for PCP student & you do not want this to be the cause of your liquidated damages.
 

Kyoji83

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Due to limitation of PM word space, this is some of the clause that I am not comfortable with the contract.


1) For the avoidance of doubt, it is hereby agreed that any period of no-pay leave, study leave, training leave or National Service shall not be counted towards the discharge of Bonded Period and that without exceptional reason, the SPONSOR shall not grant any no-pay or study leave for the purposes of further studies or sponsor any such pursuit within the first 2 years of Boned Period.

2) wilfully and persistently disobeys or fails to conform with the lawful and reasonable orders or directions of the SPONSOR, the supervisors, tutors or instructors associated with the Course or the prescribed institutions; (Remark: I am not comfortable with this after withdraw from the course)

3) before the expiry of the Bonded Period, is dismissed from the service of the SPONSOR for misconduct, negligence, incompetence, poor work performance not meeting the SPONSOR's standard or breach of discipline or for any reason whatsoever, has his service terminated; (Remark: I am not comfortable with this after my senior feedback that when he started to work & have problem with "incompetence" & "poor work performance" in a community hospital where majorly of them are FT)

4) to absolve the SPONSOR, its servants and agents from all liability to the Trainee or his personal representatives for any loss, damage or injury howsoever occasioned (whether or not due to any act or omission or neglect of the Place of training werein the Trainee undertakes the Course, its servants and/or agents) which the Trainee may sustain by reason of or during the period of the Course; and

5) to indemnify, hold harmless and at the SPONSOR's request, defend the SPONSOR again all proceedings, suits, actions, claims, demands, damages, costs, losses and/or expenses [including court costs and fees of solicitors (on a full indemnity basis) and other professionals] whatsoever which may be taken or made again the SPONSOR or incurred or become payable by the SPONSOR in respect of any injury (whether fatal or otherwise) to any person or in respect of damage or loss to any property however occasioned, whether directly or indirectly by any act, omission, neglect or other default of the Trainee while on or otherwise in relation to or arising out of the Course.

6) in the event of fortuitous illness or physical or mental incapacity which, in the absolute opinion of the SPONSOR, renders the Trainee unable or unsuitable to complete the Course or if the Trainee shall, with the consent of the SPONSOR discontinue the Course or in the absolute opinion of the SPONSOR, the Trainee for good reason fails or is unable to complete the Course, the SPONSOR reserves the right, by giving 1 month's notice in writing to the Trainee, to withdraw or terminate the Sponsorship and crease paying the Training Allowance, and/or benefits set out in the Second Schedule hereto, whereupon the Trainee and/or the Sureties shall jointly and severally be liable to refund the SPONSOR the full amount of monies expended on the Trainee in respect of the Course up to the date of termination of Sponsorship;

7) Interest at the annual rate of 10% per annum will be due and payable to the party in receipt of an arbitration award from such date as the arbitration tribunal may decide until the date of payment to such party.
 

Kyoji83

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If Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent, how to follow up when everything is squeeze into 2 years?

questioner said:
How come nurse also can fail? I thought short of nurse n keep encourage people join nurse? Even doctors lower standard also can right?
 

Kyoji83

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Professional Conversion Programme (PCP) for Registered Nurses is a 2 years Full Time course for Singaporean & PR to be bond them for 3 years as Registered Nurse upon graduating from Diploma(Nursing).

You will only see the Contract after signing Letter of Undertaking for $1K of Liquidated Damages (LD)if you decided not to take up PCP sponsorship after NYP offer you a seat.

-----------------------------------------------------------

This is the estimated Estimated amount of liquidated damages upon signing deed (Training allowance is $1,900 per month upon signing deed)

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $69,005.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($69,005.86 + $39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $146,947.31

However there is an increment of allowance from $1,900 to $2,050. So now the new estimated amount of liquidated damages is:

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $70,985.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($70,985.86+ $39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $151,105.31

* Remark: Depending on sponsoring hospital, some will included medical checkup & injection fees for DL. For this computation of LD is without it.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Singapore Workforce Development Agency (WDA) stated that total liquidated damages (including full course fees, training allowances and career transition bonus) at the point of training completion could amount to roughly be $125,000 which is not the true facts!

I suspected that NYP give to WDA, Ministry of Health (MOH), MOH Holdings (MOHH) and sponsoring hospitals a estimated course fees of $39,782.60 per year to draft sponsorship contract. After NYP decided to charge $34,475.40 that year without allowing student to have Subsidy like MOE Tuition Grant to sponsoring hospital.

Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

During that year, Full time 3 years normal Diploma courses for Singaporean is $19,881.60, PR is $22,695.70 & International Students is $26,218.70 as Non-subsidised Student for that year. So why did NYP charge a high price of $34,475.40 or unacceptable purchasing procedures without anyone like Auditor General's Office (AGO) questioning? To add on, why Singaporeans & PRs are not given Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP)?

-----------------------------------------------------------

I have actually ask FTs who are under sponsorship for 3 years normal Diploma courses & their reply is they do not know their actual amount for LD. Their surety are FTs who mostly are their parent in their home country like China. If they run away, by right Singapore Government (sponsors) needs to engage Lawyer at China to demand for DL payment. However I never hear any sponsors doing that.

For PCP, there is no way to run cause both student & surety are local.


questioner said:
Poly fees so expensive? They local or ft? If ft can just run road
 

Kyoji83

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TeenTitan01 said:
so, at what point did you decide that the program isn't for you, why and how much LD did you have to cough up?

Not ready to share but as you read on, you may guess something.

TeenTitan01 said:
not to be rude, but why do you think it happened when fresh from O level ginna pis can complete the diploma and pass but some adults with working experience can't?

thank you for sharing.

1) PCP students may left school many years & have family commitment compare to full time students.

2) If Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent.

3) While full time student are taking around 5 core modules per semester, PCP student are taking 9 core modules per semester.

4) Full time student trained in Nursing Lab 1A & attend Clinical Placement 1A in semester 1 & they will take Nursing Lab 1B & attend Clinical Placement 1B in semester 2. PCP student trained in only Nursing Lab 1A but attended Clinical Placement 1A & partial 1B in semester 1. In short, PCP student are assess in Clinical Placement when they are not trained but during pre-Clinical Placement briefing, student are told not to perform skills if you are not trained.

5) It is up to Assessor to ask any questions (could be from other modules like Human Bioscience) for Nursing Lab test that is not taught in Nursing Lab by Lecturers and not shown in course materials.

6) Full time student have around 40 students in a class while my PCP class have only 25 students. During Nursing Lab Test, Assessor tend to give more chance to full time students by clearing them faster such asking easiler or less questions & move on if student unable to answer.

7) If Lecturers want to play you out, they will not be consistent with course materials by omitting or adding non-relevant information, procedure not in sequence & etc to your practicing/sub-group in Nursing Lab Test.

8) A Nursing Lab Test maybe 1 hour test with 2 skills (about 30 minutes per skill). Assessor can play you out by starting the test time but stop you from doing the skills until you answer all Assessor's questions in order to be 'safe' that can last up to 30 minutes or more which mean you will know that you will fail the test at that time.

9) When NYP Lecturers feel that you cannot perform, some of them will start to tort you by verbal and emotional abuse to affect your mental health. They will keep harassing you by stressing the increasing huge amount of liquidated damages when you stay longer in a course and keep asking you when you intend to quit.
 

Kyoji83

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There are students who fail to pass out from Professional Conversion Programme (PCP) for Registered Nurses & now in heavy debts (Estimated $70K for 1st year & $170K for 2nd year onward) due to various reasons like Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent. Failure rate always around 20% (about 4 to 5 person) per cohort.

questioner said:
U r a good man. I also know of academic high flyer guys work in nursing. You guys are awesome
 

Ottoke

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Hi Kyoji

The links on your 1st post are now dead, it might be trashed by the system in EDMW. I will work with the mods over there to revive the posts and edit the 1st post to quotes.

O
 

Kyoji83

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Thanks.......

Hi Kyoji

The links on your 1st post are now dead, it might be trashed by the system in EDMW. I will work with the mods over there to revive the posts and edit the 1st post to quotes.

O
 

MSA1312

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Not ready to share but as you read on, you may guess something.



1) PCP students may left school many years & have family commitment compare to full time students.

2) If Lecturers, Assessors and course materials from NYP are not consistent.

3) While full time student are taking around 5 core modules per semester, PCP student are taking 9 core modules per semester.

4) Full time student trained in Nursing Lab 1A & attend Clinical Placement 1A in semester 1 & they will take Nursing Lab 1B & attend Clinical Placement 1B in semester 2. PCP student trained in only Nursing Lab 1A but attended Clinical Placement 1A & partial 1B in semester 1. In short, PCP student are assess in Clinical Placement when they are not trained but during pre-Clinical Placement briefing, student are told not to perform skills if you are not trained.

5) It is up to Assessor to ask any questions (could be from other modules like Human Bioscience) for Nursing Lab test that is not taught in Nursing Lab by Lecturers and not shown in course materials.

6) Full time student have around 40 students in a class while my PCP class have only 25 students. During Nursing Lab Test, Assessor tend to give more chance to full time students by clearing them faster such asking easiler or less questions & move on if student unable to answer.

7) If Lecturers want to play you out, they will not be consistent with course materials by omitting or adding non-relevant information, procedure not in sequence & etc to your practicing/sub-group in Nursing Lab Test.

8) A Nursing Lab Test maybe 1 hour test with 2 skills (about 30 minutes per skill). Assessor can play you out by starting the test time but stop you from doing the skills until you answer all Assessor's questions in order to be 'safe' that can last up to 30 minutes or more which mean you will know that you will fail the test at that time.

9) When NYP Lecturers feel that you cannot perform, some of them will start to tort you by verbal and emotional abuse to affect your mental health. They will keep harassing you by stressing the increasing huge amount of liquidated damages when you stay longer in a course and keep asking you when you intend to quit.

Hi Kyoji,
I am planning to apply for next year April intake and have to think again based on your sharing. I understand PCP- RN is accelerated course and there will be three semester per year instead two. Then the work load per semester should be the same per semester. I do not find reasonable where PCP take 9 units while traditional take 5 unitsper semester. It' overload for PCP-RN. Not worth to be dropped out later and better not to apply in the first place. Seems the workload is extremely high.
Any suggestion?
 

Kyoji83

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You got the information wrong. For PCP, 1 year have 2 semesters (This mean you only have 4 semesters for this 2 years course). That is the reason why PCP-RN students will be overloaded.

This link is from NYP website but do not have a good breakdown between 2 semesters in each year. So you just needs to take the total modules in each year divide by 2 to have a estimated guild on how many modules you will take on each semesters. Source: http://www.nyp.edu.sg/schools/shs/lifelong-learning/nursing-pcp-rn.html

I would like to add on a lot of modules you see is actually 2 in 1 module. For example, Psychosocial Perspectives is consist of psychology module and sociology module.

To add on, apart from our assignments, tests & exams, we still needs to stay back to school to watch VOD (A nursing videos that can only watch in school) & present it to the class. However the videos are not professional at all (In my own judgement, it more like a cut & paste). It can be out dated, different country procedure practise or not even a safe procedure practise at all!


Hi Kyoji,
I am planning to apply for next year April intake and have to think again based on your sharing. I understand PCP- RN is accelerated course and there will be three semester per year instead two. Then the work load per semester should be the same per semester. I do not find reasonable where PCP take 9 units while traditional take 5 unitsper semester. It' overload for PCP-RN. Not worth to be dropped out later and better not to apply in the first place. Seems the workload is extremely high.
Any suggestion?
 

Kyoji83

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Never mind, you are not the only one who get bully by assessor. Share my experience as PCP-RN student. Some of the NYP lecturers only like to teach youngsters so that they can smoke them. Those NYP lecturers do not like adult class because adults will questions them back. My classmates who are trained in medical told me these lecturers try to smoke us but when ask further, lecturers just use this technique to stop student from asking further: "We are learning to be a Nurse & not a Doctor". KNS! NYP lecturers read line by line from their presentation slides/module materials but expected us to assess us out of module context! Double standards!

Source: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/110724446-post21.html
 

havetheveryfun

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No offense but I don't think most of your complaints are valid except for the overloading of semesters and the extra amount of damages you have to pay if you fail the course.

-It is a course with a bond. If you fail the course, of course you have to pay the damages.. just like a scholarship bond. If not where got so good? What's more, there is training allowance even during your studies.

-Starting pay low even after completing the course. That's to be expected, since to them they "paid" for your 2 years of course + training allowance.

-Lecturers and assessors CMI - that happens everywhere. just ask any local uni undergrad, most of the professors also are just textbook based and have no industry experience. After all, most of these lecturers and assessors probably have not been nurses or doctors before, how would they know ? You only learn more when you start working as a proper nurse, just like any other industry.. that's why related working experience is valued over a higher education paper (like a masters' or PHD) sometimes.

-Overloading of semesters: yes it suck but its probably a compromise. I don't think a lot of employers would be willing to wait for a person to complete a 3 year course and then offer them.. they might as well go and look for fresh diploma grads every year to join them without having to wait 3 years. And its probably because of the training allowance that they have to cut short the duration.
 

Kyoji83

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No offense but I don't think most of your complaints are valid except for the overloading of semesters and the extra amount of damages you have to pay if you fail the course.


Just sharing my experience so that more people are aware of PCP-RN.


-It is a course with a bond. If you fail the course, of course you have to pay the damages.. just like a scholarship bond. If not where got so good? What's more, there is training allowance even during your studies.


For PCP, you are correct cause student & surety are both local however I cannot say the same thing for foreigners.

I have actually ask foreign students who are under sponsorship for 3 years normal Diploma courses & their reply is they do not know their actual amount for Liquidated Damages (LD). Their surety are foreigners who mostly are their parent in their home country like China. If they run away, by right Singapore Government (sponsors) needs to engage Lawyer at China to demand for DL payment. However I never hear any sponsors doing that.


-Starting pay low even after completing the course. That's to be expected, since to them they "paid" for your 2 years of course + training allowance.


Just sharing my experience so that more people are aware of 'untold' information about PCP-RN.


-Lecturers and assessors CMI - that happens everywhere. just ask any local uni undergrad, most of the professors also are just textbook based and have no industry experience. After all, most of these lecturers and assessors probably have not been nurses or doctors before, how would they know ? You only learn more when you start working as a proper nurse, just like any other industry.. that's why related working experience is valued over a higher education paper (like a masters' or PHD) sometimes.


NYP Lecturers are experience nurses who have at least a Honours/Bachelor or Master Degree. However I feels that they do not have what it take to be a Lecturer presenting topics or competent to trained a class of students (Ratio: 1 Lecturer to more then 20 students) for nursing lab.


-Overloading of semesters: yes it suck but its probably a compromise. I don't think a lot of employers would be willing to wait for a person to complete a 3 year course and then offer them.. they might as well go and look for fresh diploma grads every year to join them without having to wait 3 years. And its probably because of the training allowance that they have to cut short the duration.


Not really & actually the course fees is much cheaper if the course is 3 years rather then PCP 2 years.

During that academic year, Full time normal Diploma courses for Singaporean is $19,881.60, PR is $22,695.70 & International Students is $26,218.70 as Non-subsidised Student for that 1 year duration course fees. As Singaporean & PR, we can get subsidised such as tuition grant to bring the training course fees & DL amount down.

However NYP charge a high price of $34,475.40 for PCP Diploma courses for that 1 year duration without allowing student to have Subsidy like MOE Tuition Grant which increase the DL amount.

The funny part is our sponsorship contract are base on estimated course fees of $39,782.60 per year to draft contract.

Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

So why did NYP charge a high price of $34,475.40 or unacceptable purchasing procedures without anyone like Auditor General's Office (AGO) questioning? To add on, why Singaporeans & PRs are not given Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP)?
 

Kyoji83

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Yes, PCP students are better now in term of receiving training allowances of $1,700 to $2,050 per month based on their prior work experience. However the higher the allowance, the higher the LD. Any point of time, they increase the allowance, PCP student have to take up & cause the LD to be higher.

More details on the computation of training allowance are as follows:

Years of Prior Work Experience: Enhanced Monthly Training Allowance
Below 2: $1,700
2-3: $1,770
4-5: $1,840
6-7: $1,910
8-9: $1,980
10 and above: $2,050

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For NS, really s.u.c.k thumbs.


I read your story and its good that u share the downsides of the pcp course. Last time the training allowance were even worst. Like $900-1000+.

Guess somewhere u also mentioned about your reservist thingy. Yeh overall NS and reservist is not really fair to sg guys. U r supposed to protect the country but front door already open to so many foreigners. And so many ****, prc , pinoys are citizens nowadays ...
 

havetheveryfun

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Just sharing my experience so that more people are aware of PCP-RN.

Yes of course, you are just sharing your experience.. its up to the individual to decide whether its good or bad.

All I can say is try not to join a PCP that gives training allowance.. because with training allowance, you cannot fail and also high expectations ..

or maybe when joining the course can request for lower training allowance , that way wont have to pay back that much if fail. Or look for other programmes where there is no training allowance, this way at least maybe only have to pay for the course fees
 

Kyoji83

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Not PCP programmes have allowances and are so long duration. If you draw an allowance during the programme for just studying and not working, naturally you have to pay back the allowance if you fail right? Isn't that to be expected. Of course, the lecturers in the course may try to make you fail etc.. but what do they get out of it ?

I only see the Contract after signing Letter of Undertaking for $1K of Liquidated Damages (LD) if I decided not to take up PCP sponsorship after NYP offer me a seat.

Never expected liquidated damages will be this much since Singapore Workforce Development Agency (WDA) stated that total liquidated damages (including full course fees, training allowances and career transition bonus) at the point of training completion could amount to roughly be $125,000 which is not the true facts!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is the estimated Estimated amount of liquidated damages upon signing deed (Training allowance is $1,900 per month upon signing deed) will be this much.

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $69,005.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($69,005.86 + $39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $146,947.31

However there is an increment of allowance from $1,900 to $2,050. So now the new estimated amount of liquidated damages is:

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $70,985.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($70,985.86+ $39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $151,105.31

* Remark: Depending on sponsoring hospital, some will included medical checkup & injection fees for DL. For this computation of LD is without it.


If one really wants to join a PCP programme, go look for those that you don't have to pay or at least don't have to pay so much if you "Fail", or those that are purely WSQ courses (this type confirm don't have to pay back).. because no way to fail to WSQ type of courses one


Hard cause no all PCP have available information such as LD amount & you will never know how they calculate the liquidated damages. Even for PCP-RN, my actual amount is also different from what WSG claim.

I am interested to be RN but no easy course, how? People chose PCP because of interest to work in that occupation & not because the course is easy.


There's no free lunch in the world.. the higher the training allowance is during the course, definitely higher expectations and all.. dont go and be greedy and want to get paid a high amount for studying


NOt all PCP have available information such as allowance. People chose PCP because of interest to work in that occupation & not because the allowance is high. We do not have the option to reject the allowance too.
 
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