New Professional Conversion Programmes for Data Analyst and Full Stack Software Developer

Nipponho

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They are good at bullsh.iting at what they are doing......:s22:

At least if hire sinkies, you expect Singaporeans to ******** less than them.......
reality is their asking price is too tempting for employers to ignore the risk of BS. Plus during the selection process, if the person selecting is **** or pinoy, they want to hire their own country people. It has been happening all these while. Some of the ads even blatantly specify they want people from a certain country until people complain and they amend it. Nowadays they are more discreet in their ads, but that does not stop them from discriminating against singaporeans. That is the sad reality. Government allows it. What to do?
 

Nipponho

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•Up to 70% of the Singapore Citizen (SC) /Permanent Resident (PR) trainees trainee’s monthly salary, capped at $4,000 (excl. GST) per trainee per month, for the duration of the programme.
•Up to 90%* of the Singapore Citizen (SC) trainee’s monthly salary, capped at $6,000 (excl. GST) per trainee per month, for the programme duration.
I spoke to the officer. That is not the case. Take note of the word "Up to". They only compensate employer for the absent days when employee go for classes. So if the employee is absent say for one week in a month, government will only compensate employer about 25% of that month's salary. Definitely not one whole month, unless the employee is absent for one whole month. You can call the officer and verify this and then let us know.

They don't even need to hire FTs. Just fresh grads will do. At least fresh grads have SOME knowledge in that field, compared to someone in this program with ZERO knowledge, plus fresh grads are definitely cheaper than people in this programme too. Without the wage subsidy, no sane employers will be willing to take up this offer.

Experienced people from third world countries like indonesia, vietnam, of course india, are still cheaper than fresh local graduates. Confirm. You can ask around how much is a graduate being paid in india and how much are singaporean graduates asking salary.

You're right in a way - my company only looked at this because the senior colleague was unable to hire a programmer. He looked for experienced people at first, then fresh grads, then fresh grads from Malaysia/overseas, then in the end tried this option out.
Their first preference is ****/pinoy/viets. Then Malaysians. Singaporeans are last in priority. Plus some of the ****, pinoys and malaysians are given PRs or citizens. I was told marina bay financial centre is like mumbai.
 

havetheveryfun

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I spoke to the officer. That is not the case. Take note of the word "Up to". They only compensate employer for the absent days when employee go for classes. So if the employee is absent say for one week in a month, government will only compensate employer about 25% of that month's salary. Definitely not one whole month, unless the employee is absent for one whole month. You can call the officer and verify this and then let us know.

I'm not sure about that. My HR is in charge of that. But from what she told us over small talk during lunch, it was for the monthly salary, if not why would any employer even take up this offer? Which PCP programme did you enquire about ?

Because for the candidate my company hired, his course is part-time at night.. so he won't even be absent at all from the company.

Experienced people from third world countries like indonesia, vietnam, of course india, are still cheaper than fresh local graduates. Confirm. You can ask around how much is a graduate being paid in india and how much are singaporean graduates asking salary.


Their first preference is ****/pinoy/viets. Then Malaysians. Singaporeans are last in priority. Plus some of the ****, pinoys and malaysians are given PRs or citizens. I was told marina bay financial centre is like mumbai.

Yaeh you are right but the foreign to Sinkie quota now does help a bit. Though of course, there are many ways to get around it if the company really wanted to do so.
 

jansen chan

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Hi,one year has passed, may i know if you have been matched to an employer under the program? Could you share your experience if u don't mind? I just enrolled, now waiting.

No the consultant that time said they would send my resume to prospective employers and if they decide to ask me for interview then they would call me.. but I got 0 calls at all

Dun bother, those PCP... the participants are all an empty shell.

I've tried several of the Infocomm positions like the Full-Stack, Devs (Java,.Net), Web dev, Data & a couple of Network positions.... all in the last one & half years.

NONE OF THEM CALLED!!! (iss-nus or NTUC-nextU)

To be fair, only Lithan called but ask if i wanna take their courses on MY OWN $$$ ! ..... & then look for jobs on my own after the course!


Just a heads-up for you guys.



.
 

havetheveryfun

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Dun bother, those PCP... the participants are all an empty shell.

I've tried several of the Infocomm positions like the Full-Stack, Devs (Java,.Net), Web dev, Data & a couple of Network positions.... all in the last one & half years.

NONE OF THEM CALLED!!! (iss-nus or NTUC-nextU)

To be fair, only Lithan called but ask if i wanna take their courses on MY OWN $$$ ! ..... & then look for jobs on my own after the course!


Just a heads-up for you guys.



.

ya.. my friend's company , he said he hired a person from PCP program.. but until now the course have not started ! even after 4-5 months ! then now the company that offering the course are tellin the coy they cant claim for that person's salary if no attend the course !

not the participants are an empty shell but the companies are an empty shell ! think about why would these companies want to go through all these troubles when they can just hire a fresh grad...

personally I forked out my own money and attended 1-2 of the 5 -day courses which the PCP programme also covers... then I went for interviews and the interviewers didn't care about these courses, it was useless to the interviewers... u would probably have a higher chance if you self-studied, make your own application/start your own project than going for these useless courses which cost a bomb too even after subisdies !
 

jgyy1990

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i am currently in the PCP for full stack software developer course. Employer / government agenda aside, this full stack course is quite demanding.

Prior to this course i need learn up on HTML, CSS and JS. Afterwards comes SASS, ReactJS, cmd/bash, ruby, github/bitbucket, AngularJS, SQL, JAVA, Watson API, responsive design, python and jquery.

These skills need to learn in 3-6 months. To even get shortlisted for interview as software engineer, i suggest build up your github portfolio.
 

havetheveryfun

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i am currently in the PCP for full stack software developer course. Employer / government agenda aside, this full stack course is quite demanding.

Prior to this course i need learn up on HTML, CSS and JS. Afterwards comes SASS, ReactJS, cmd/bash, ruby, github/bitbucket, AngularJS, SQL, JAVA, Watson API, responsive design, python and jquery.

These skills need to learn in 3-6 months. To even get shortlisted for interview as software engineer, i suggest build up your github portfolio.

wow u are really hardworking n hungry for a software developer role..

But your experience with it is precisely where the problem lies - if you already self-studied all that on your own beforehand and built up your own portfolio, I'm pretty sure you can land a development job without having to go through this course or program at all..

whereas the PCP program claims to convert and train a person with close to 0 experience and knowledge in that field from scratch and through on the job training

perhaps you could share your experience on how you manage to get into this program and employer.. e.g. who you emailed to sign up for the program, or did you find an employer yourselfbefore signing for the program, etc maybe that would be helpful to others
 
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jgyy1990

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I think whining about not getting hired due to inexperience is really pointless. For myself prior to career switch i was working as naval architect for nearly 4 years, I went through quite a few interviews for similar positions. While i did get offered, there is hardly any pay difference die to employer either being SME stingy with budget or they just shoot back claiming job scope different from my previous job.

So experience or not to me its just plain bs excuse, work 10 years they will just shoot back say you don't want to get out of comfort zone and etc. Technically it is possible to self study and get a job, but that is provided that you have some form of foundations in the beginning. If PCP gives the opportunity to both learn and pay for salary, just take it instead of being stubborn on self learning.

Back to topic on the PCP courses. It is plain misconception to think that you can enter the course without preparations. For example data analyst course, out of 150 people who took the assessment prior to course, only 50 people are accepted. full stack have a much smaller intake of about 10-20 people per batch.

My personal story on entering this PCP is very simple, join a startup which needs sinkie quota to hire FT developers, than convince the employer that even themselves can take up the PCP course. Of course they themselves they need to learn HTML, CSS, javascript first. What i did really rely a lot on network and timing though. For the course that commences in February 2018, i have been talking to them since October 2017.

Anyway my final words are that focus on attending coding bootcamp instead of whining about crappy employer.
 

havetheveryfun

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Back to topic on the PCP courses. It is plain misconception to think that you can enter the course without preparations. For example data analyst course, out of 150 people who took the assessment prior to course, only 50 people are accepted. full stack have a much smaller intake of about 10-20 people per batch.

I think you misunderstood my point, people whining about not getting hired due to inexperience is exactly the problem here.

Because the PCP program had been promoted and advertised to be such a program (to convert someone with 0 or close to 0 experience), but in actual fact it isn't at all. I mean, of course if the employer is going to pay for you to attend more courses even though you already know a bit, why not right ?

I agree though that it might be better to fork out your own money to attend a coding bootcamp (Currently already a few good ones I think and only last a few months - NUS ISS full stack, General Assembly, etc) and build up your own portfolio rather than trying for the PCP courses.. there is no free lunch in this world.

The last resort is that actually you can fork out your own money to attend the PCP courses without even needing to have an employer or job.. you can go through the full course as an individual and then try to look for a job after that - but most sinkies are cheapo and wouldn't want to take such a risk.
 
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jgyy1990

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i recommend focus more on being proficient in doing software development than focusing on employment and wondering why employer are so stingy in paying high for software developer.

The unfortunate part of this PCP full stack course is that lesser people are interested in this course in 2018 as compared to 2016. The main reason is cause the students are all shocked by the difficulty of this course.

If you actually monitor github regularly, the coders who are successful typically spend thousands of unpaid hours to commit over 10k lines worth of coding. In fact the jobless or freelance open source community are much more proficient than highly paid software developer.
 

Kyoji83

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Most sinkies are not that cheapo cause there maybe other reason behind it. For example, some have degree & use it to enter the PCP course but cannot enter full time course because they do not have a GCE O.


I think you misunderstood my point, people whining about not getting hired due to inexperience is exactly the problem here.

Because the PCP program had been promoted and advertised to be such a program (to convert someone with 0 or close to 0 experience), but in actual fact it isn't at all. I mean, of course if the employer is going to pay for you to attend more courses even though you already know a bit, why not right ?

I agree though that it might be better to fork out your own money to attend a coding bootcamp (Currently already a few good ones I think and only last a few months - NUS ISS full stack, General Assembly, etc) and build up your own portfolio rather than trying for the PCP courses.. there is no free lunch in this world.

The last resort is that actually you can fork out your own money to attend the PCP courses without even needing to have an employer or job.. you can go through the full course as an individual and then try to look for a job after that - but most sinkies are cheapo and wouldn't want to take such a risk.
 

havetheveryfun

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Most sinkies are not that cheapo cause there maybe other reason behind it. For example, some have degree & use it to enter the PCP course but cannot enter full time course because they do not have a GCE O.

cheapo la, there are so many options out there today apart from PCP that doesn't require a proper education certificate.. they will accept you as long as you are willing to pay. Already gave 2 examples, General Assembly Bootcamp and NUS ISS Full-Stack Foundation Course - both are also subsidized to around 50% or more even for individuals
 

havetheveryfun

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i recommend focus more on being proficient in doing software development than focusing on employment and wondering why employer are so stingy in paying high for software developer.

Don't know why you keep saying that we are focusing on why employers are stingy and bad ?

we are complaining about the PCP scheme and what it was actually set up to do.. not the employers
 

jgyy1990

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based on my lecturer response, on average 70% of the students who attended the course are not under the PCP scheme. About half of the 70% are actively looking for jobs while attending the course and the other half are attending just for the sake of learning.

There are a few issues i see with PCP, firstly is the stringent requirement for salary support. Secondly if the class cohort is small there will not be any technical assistant to help you on coding. Thirdly the course duration is simply too short and WSG did not bother auditing on the course structure despite many complains on course duration. What the lecture simply did is to remove materials bit by bit when student complains. The last issue would be disruptive students who kept talking like a ruthless capitalist, always mentioning about how much cheaper ft coders are.
 

Kyoji83

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Let take Nursing as an example. PCP accept GCE A, Polytechnic Diploma & Degree graduates for their Diploma in Nursing course while Full time Polytechnic Diploma in Nursing only accept GCE O (and certain ITE relevant courses). Even got money to pay for courses, Degree graduate without GCE O are unable to enter Polytechnic for Diploma in Nursing (Full time). So similar thing may happen to other PCP like IT. They are not chepo but do not have much options out there.


cheapo la, there are so many options out there today apart from PCP that doesn't require a proper education certificate.. they will accept you as long as you are willing to pay. Already gave 2 examples, General Assembly Bootcamp and NUS ISS Full-Stack Foundation Course - both are also subsidized to around 50% or more even for individuals
 

havetheveryfun

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Let take Nursing as an example. PCP accept GCE A, Polytechnic Diploma & Degree graduates for their Diploma in Nursing course while Full time Polytechnic Diploma in Nursing only accept GCE O (and certain ITE relevant courses). Even got money to pay for courses, Degree graduate without GCE O are unable to enter Polytechnic for Diploma in Nursing (Full time). So similar thing may happen to other PCP like IT. They are not chepo but do not have much options out there.

stop complaining abt ur nursing pcp experience again please like a broken old record and go away
 

havetheveryfun

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There are a few issues i see with PCP, firstly is the stringent requirement for salary support. Secondly if the class cohort is small there will not be any technical assistant to help you on coding. Thirdly the course duration is simply too short and WSG did not bother auditing on the course structure despite many complains on course duration. What the lecture simply did is to remove materials bit by bit when student complains. The last issue would be disruptive students who kept talking like a ruthless capitalist, always mentioning about how much cheaper ft coders are.

These disruptive students mentioning about ft foders are Singaporeans? Why they still bother trying to convert a developer if they have such a negative mindset.
 

jgyy1990

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They are indeed local Singaporeans. They took up the course thinking that they can just pick up the skills and create their own company applications instead of outsourcing. End up these employers got shocked at how difficult it is to create an application and gave all sorts of excuse to simply leave the course early.

Anyway software updates are coming out quicker than what we can learn. For example just last year angular was version 2, this year switched to version 5 and by June will be version 6. what i am pissed off is that certain functions that i once imported from angular last month becomes obsolete and i need to find alternative source to call out the date function.
 

Kyoji83

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But our conversation is about PCP.

It is also prove that that sinkies are not that cheapo cause there maybe other reason behind it such as some have degree & use it to enter the PCP course like PCP for Registered Nurses but cannot enter full time course like Diploma in Nursing because they do not have a GCE O.

If you cannot afford to lose, stop complaining and go away!


stop complaining abt ur nursing pcp experience again please like a broken old record and go away
 

havetheveryfun

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But our conversation is about PCP.

It is also prove that that sinkies are not that cheapo cause there maybe other reason behind it such as some have degree & use it to enter the PCP course like PCP for Registered Nurses but cannot enter full time course like Diploma in Nursing because they do not have a GCE O.

If you cannot afford to lose, stop complaining and go away!

it is about PCP but not nursing PCP, it is about IT PCP. So many people have told you before nursing PCP is different from all the others - in nursing PCP you get allowance, need to sign bond, get to attend full time course for few years... there is NONE of this in the IT PCP at all, so there is no point comparing the 2 of them.
 
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