Newbie Guide: How to Find a Good Agent for Investment & Insurance?

Ap3s

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Yes, you can always buy new insurance policies subjected to medical underwriting. So for e.g. if you hold NTUC Limited Pay Wholelife and want to buy NTUC Term Insurance it is fine. You can claim for both policies, and I'm not sure what you mean by "double claim".

Learning to invest needs some time. Maybe set aside half a day each week for 2-3 months to read up on a few books. After it, that's it. I don't see how one would need to learn for years... Insurance is for protection not for investment, but I guess this is probably the nth time you are hearing me repeating this. If you are relying on Traditional Wholelife for investment it means that you will more interested in the "surrender value". Good luck with that, policy nowadays take 20+ years to break even.


While you are self-educating on investment, you can always park your savings in a money market fund until you have designed your portfolio and are ready to execute your investment plan.

sorry for the confusion. i'm referring to getting another whole life insurance from the same or another company. in event of accidents or death, can i make claims from both policies that i hav? e.g WL Policy A = 50k, WL Policy B = 50k. will i get 100k in total from both policies?

i'm keen on doing my own investments. as i'm a fresh grad, i'm still accumulating savings first. my limited pay WL policy is purely for insurance, with only a small coverage of 50k. at least i get the assurance that i will be getting the money back or i can leave a small legacy, as compared to term. my plan is to have a WL insurance first, then get term or another WL insurance later to get more coverage when i start to hav my own family commitments. as well as to wait until i have enough capital to start investment. not sure if i'm doing it right.
 

Rommie2k6

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Hi TS, thanks for the reply.
Yesterday i finally had a chat with my gf bro who is an IFA. we did a comparison of the aviva n ntuc shield plan for my parents and myself.. it works out ntuc is more cost-effective (cheaper).. the problem is, as for the 4 points u mentioned above, are they TRUE for ntuc plan? or may varies depend on how insurance agent package it? Also, may i know your opinion on buying Preferred or Advantage plan?

for the ETF, are you referring to the etf counters that we can buy thru the SGX (normal trading platform).. i see 1 unit is like 2.950.. means 1 lot around 2975 inclu transaction charges... dont seems very feasible for me in monthly investing.. (i cant fork out near 3k/mth for investment)

I do not personally have NTUC shield plan insurance but I think the NTUC Enhanced Incomeshield with Assist Rider fulfill all 4 criteria. And yes, a few years back when I did the calculation, NTUC premium is the cheapest too. Don't get the NTUC daily cash rider... that one is wasting money.

I think DBS STI ETF per transaction is less about 200-300 instead of StreetTracks STI ETF per transaction is about 2000-3000. You can always invest on a quarterly basis instead of monthly.
 

Rommie2k6

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Hi All,

Just to share some of my experience of my chat with IFA (gf's bro). Basically, what i want to acheive are the shieldplans for myself n my parents and assess my existing insurance coverage.

sheildplans are pretty straight-forward, we compare with our existing aia healthshield plan B with NTUC enhance-incomeshield+rider and Aviva..
end results, ntuc is cheaper (rider) and more coverage (more ex in medisave) compare to our old plans. As my parents are 50s.. i think upgrading them to a better plan seems to be a sensible idea.. so i decided upgrade for 3 of us.. my younger brother, i leave in original plan and let him decide for himself in future since he is in NS now. haha..

When you change shield plan note that it is subjected to underwriting. This may not be a wise move especially if your parents have some existing medical conditions. Whenever possible make sure the insurer accept your shield plan as a "takeover" case as opposed to "new" case. Usually for "takeover" it means that the insurer will cover whatever the previous insurer covers and includes pre-existing condition (if any).

Next, about my existing insurance assessment.. since i already bought some life policies few years ago. So, we just assess if the sum insured and the coverage is sufficient anot.. Basically, i have about 120k CI coverage and 200k death coverage.. we worked out the amount needed to support my parents or any outstanding cost for about 20 years which is around 400k, so he suggest to me just get a term insurance till 65 with 200k coverage will do.. a rough estimation by him is about 30-35/mth, so its ok for my budget. As this 400k doesn't cover my mortgage loan which i dun have any at this moment, he agree on my plan on getting a depriciating term insurance (with CI) which equate the mortgage amount to cover it in future..

The above basically cover my higher priorities. There are 5 which he shared with me.. H&S, death, CI/MI, income replacement-disability, p. accident..

i feel the P-accident is the lowest priority until i dun even wan to spend a cent on it.. he also tell me dun buy, cos it just works like some form of consolation when u lose some parts of your body.. the more logical 1 is the income-replacement/disability insurance. he told me its optional, but good for young guys who are in the building stage of wealth cos its provide some form of income protection if u are disabled from work, maybe still can get 75% of your monthly income.. He told me he/his company is not carrying this product, but will ask his friends to help generate the quote..

His last few comments stun me, he said most FA including his friends wont reccomend income protection policies as they are 1 of the lowest paid stuffs, so he said maybe his friends also dun wanna do it for me cos earn nothing yet still must service me.. :s27: i dunnoe how true is this.. But anyway, i dun think he earn much from my side too cos only buy term insurance and govt shield plans.. Thanks bro =:p=:p

My last question will be, is those income protection plan important in your opinion? how about the 1 provided by GE?
I think your IFA friend is quite honest and ethical. Yes Disability Income is very important especially for young people and it is dirt cheap too. Only GE and Aviva has such products.
 

Rommie2k6

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sorry for the confusion. i'm referring to getting another whole life insurance from the same or another company. in event of accidents or death, can i make claims from both policies that i hav? e.g WL Policy A = 50k, WL Policy B = 50k. will i get 100k in total from both policies?

Yes, of course you can claim from both policies A and B unless stated otherwise. Note that some insurance company have clauses that limit payout from all insurance policies but usually the sum is quite high like 1 million. For example, some companies may have a clause that says "the total CI payout from this policy and all policies held by the policyholder cannot exceed an aggregate of 1million". Don't ask me which insurance companies impose such limitations... that's what your IFA is for and he/she should know.

i'm keen on doing my own investments. as i'm a fresh grad, i'm still accumulating savings first. my limited pay WL policy is purely for insurance, with only a small coverage of 50k. at least i get the assurance that i will be getting the money back or i can leave a small legacy, as compared to term. my plan is to have a WL insurance first, then get term or another WL insurance later to get more coverage when i start to hav my own family commitments. as well as to wait until i have enough capital to start investment. not sure if i'm doing it right.
I suppose it's an ok plan. Just note that the longer you wait, the higher the chance of developing medical conditions that will affect your insurability. Personally my strategy is to overbuy term insurance from the start ($600k for young mid-20s person - which if you ask me is quite little but I cannot afford anymore), and then ramp up my savings rate when I earn more income next time.

Before you start any investments make sure you have at least 6-month emergency savings (for retrenchment, unemployment, paying hospital deductible, etc.). If you are getting married soon, you may also have to defer your investments until you have saved enough for the downpayment.

However, the longer one delays in investment, potentially more savings is required to "catch up". Please go read up on basic secondary school maths - the power of compounding. To illustrate what I am talking about:

Mary is now 25. From 25 to 45 she saves $1000/mth. From 45 to 65, she saves nothing. She retires at 65.
Jane is now 25. She did not save a single cent from 25 to 45. From 45 to 65, she saves $2700/mth. She retires at 65.

Both Mary and Jane will have about the same sum of money at retirement, about $410k (assuming 5% returns per yr).
 
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RoLanTo

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I do not personally have NTUC shield plan insurance but I think the NTUC Enhanced Incomeshield with Assist Rider fulfill all 4 criteria. And yes, a few years back when I did the calculation, NTUC premium is the cheapest too. Don't get the NTUC daily cash rider... that one is wasting money.

I think DBS STI ETF per transaction is less about 200-300 instead of StreetTracks STI ETF per transaction is about 2000-3000. You can always invest on a quarterly basis instead of monthly.

ok. i got what u mean.. the DBS etf allow "100" instead of the norm "1000"..
 

RoLanTo

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When you change shield plan note that it is subjected to underwriting. This may not be a wise move especially if your parents have some existing medical conditions. Whenever possible make sure the insurer accept your shield plan as a "takeover" case as opposed to "new" case. Usually for "takeover" it means that the insurer will cover whatever the previous insurer covers and includes pre-existing condition (if any).

I think your IFA friend is quite honest and ethical. Yes Disability Income is very important especially for young people and it is dirt cheap too. Only GE and Aviva has such products.

Ok.. my parents no previous health conditions.. so shld be ok.
 

Cashcow

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I take a look at finexis website. Some of them are really amazing, can achieve MDRT in 5 mths. Most of the financial consultants I talk to tell me that need to work for 1 to 2 yrs before the income is more steady due to renewals. If you can get MDRT in 5 mths, I wonder what products they are selling?
 

gimme5bucks

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Thanks TS for this informative thread! I'm still a newbie at all these, so the summaries were useful.

I'm 25 yrs old and have a whole life policy (limited pay), but in future I'm only going to buy term to increase my coverage even further. Simple reason being costly premiums. I'm also going to upgrade my Incomeshield plan to the Enhanced one with assist rider plus get a disability income plan.

This is on top of my early payout critical illness and personal accident plan. Anyone thinks a hospitalisation income plan is useful as well? I don't know if I'm over-buying but I have a strong family history of serious diseases, so I want to be adequately covered. And well.. life is so unpredictable.

I've always had my doubts on ILP as well, think its better to do invest seperately. My 6 months emergency savings are in place, and I have some spare cash each month to park into funds/bonds etc. I'm not too investment savvy and while I have read up on the different instruments, I don't know how to start.. and this is where a good IFA would make a difference. If I can find one!
 
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Cashcow

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Just a word of advice to those who wants to invest:

If you want to invest, you shld have an adequate knowledge of what you investing into. And all investment carry risks so you must have an idea of how much loss you can take but from what I know, most novice investors get excited when they see a gain but get really emotional when they start seeing loss and make silly decisions. For eg: If you invest in $5000 buying a certain share, then the paper value drop to half and you dun panic. Then it's quite suitable for you to invest.
 

revenant

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Great work Rommie! Guess most of us are Tan Kin Lian followers?

Can you imagine an ILP having an effect of deduction more than 50% of the total savings?
 

Rommie2k6

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Hahaha... I'm a bit late but came across last week's Straits Times article on how Finexis is involved in the "volume bonus" thingy. No surprise, in my original thread, I already cautioned everyone to avoid Finexis and finally it seems that there is proof that they are a really bad IFA company.



Insurer fumes over policy’s high lapse rate
Straits Times Singapore, 24 Jul, 2010, Saturday
After taking ‘free’ first-year cover, many AXA customers dropped out
By Lorna Tan, Senior Correspondent


INSURER AXA Life is seeing red after one of its distributors offered free insurance cover for the first year as a gimmick to attract customers.
With no premiums to pay for a year, many signed up. The problem is that customers did not renew the policies once the first free year ended.
But in the meantime AXA paid the distributor, financial advice firm Finexis, millions of dollars in sales commissions and bonuses for marketing the product.
Now, AXA is trying to claw back more than $7 million of this money, according to market sources.
Amid the dispute, AXA’s Singapore chief executive Gilbert Pak resigned with immediate effect on Thursday. He had been at the insurer since October 2008. According to AXA, Mr Pak cited personal reasons for his departure.
The product sold, FutureProtector, is a term insurance plan that provides cover in the event of death or total and permanent disability for a set period ranging from five to more than 15 years.
In a bid to boost sales, Finexis, which has about 500 advisers, last year effectively gave away the product for free by marketing it at steep discounts of up to 100 per cent off first-year premiums.
Sources say the discounts have dropped to 50 per cent since April.
Despite the huge discounts, the transactions were still profitable to Finexis, as the substantial sales attracted millions of dollars in commissions and volume bonuses from AXA.
However, the plan backfired when the aggressive selling led to a high lapse rate once the first year was up.
Industry players are concerned over whether proper ‘needs-based selling’ was carried out to ensure that such products matched customers’ financial needs.
Life Insurance Association (LIA) president Tan Hak Leh said while there is no specific regulation on commissions and discounts, the LIA does not condone the use of these kind of rebates as an inducement or basis for a purchase.
Both LIA and the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said that advisers are required to have a reasonable basis for making investment product recommendations to customers.
‘They should not unduly influence the financial decisions of customers by offering rebates,’ said an MAS spokesman.
It is believed AXA’s previous deal with Finexis for the FutureProtector included a first-year commission of 117 per cent to advisers plus another level of commissions called volume bonus to the firm for satisfying sales quotas.
This means that even if FutureProtector was given free for the first year to customers, Finexis and its advisers could still earn some commission. One market observer said the first-year commission that can be earned from selling this product is now 93.6 per cent.
Sources say AXA is unhappy with the high policy lapse rate and is demanding that Finexis return the sales commissions plus volume bonuses.
When contacted, AXA said it does not disclose details of its commercial terms and business arrangements. It said an appropriate level of term insurance protection is the foundation of comprehensive financial plans, and wants to ensure customers’ needs are fully met.
However, Mr Patrick Lim, associate director at financial advice firm PromiseLand Independent said the FutureProtector is not even on its recommended product list, as the rates are not competitive when compared to similar products.
For instance, Mr Lim said, for a sum assured of $500,000, the annual premium imposed by FutureProtector for a male, non-smoker, aged 30, is $730. Rival insurers such as Aviva and TM Asia Life charge lower premiums of $470 and $515 respectively for similar cover. He said his firm does not give discounts.
MAS said it expects advisers to ensure that their investment product recommendations are needs-based and that they meet MAS’ guidelines on fair dealing.
It has also issued guidelines requiring financial advice firms to put in place systems and processes to monitor and deter improper switching activities. It will not hesitate to take appropriate regulatory action against financial institutions which contravene its requirements.
Mr Tan added that LIA members are committed to probe any policy lapse that could adversely affect policyholders’ interests, and to take appropriate action.
When policyholders ask to terminate a policy, LIA members are required to warn them of the disadvantages of doing so.




I wonder how many customers have been misold the AXA FutureProtector... but luckily I don't think consumers were hurt bad since it was a no-premium product (wah... I think first time the consumer don't kenna but the company get into trouble!). This incident just goes to show that being an IFA does not instantly mean being trustworthy, and even the "independent" part of the IFA does have its degree of "tied-ness" for some IFA firms like Finexis. I wonder if their MDRT figures will drop this year?

Footnote: MDRT = Insurance agent who earns **** load of commission for the year.
 
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Cashcow

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People always think the being independent means pro-consumer. This case shows that they are not truly independent and dun treat all their products equally. So today, whether you are buying from a tied agent or IFA, I believe it depends very much on the consultant serving you.

Btw, the consumers does not lose anything in the finexis case cos they never even pay anything. AXA seems to be the biggest loser. I hope they really sue finexis until their pants drop. It's people like that who give insurance companies a BAD name.
 

Kheetat

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People always think the being independent means pro-consumer. This case shows that they are not truly independent and dun treat all their products equally. So today, whether you are buying from a tied agent or IFA, I believe it depends very much on the consultant serving you.

Btw, the consumers does not lose anything in the finexis case cos they never even pay anything. AXA seems to be the biggest loser. I hope they really sue finexis until their pants drop. It's people like that who give insurance companies a BAD name.

Tell me about it. I am so angry when I read the news. I am not sure how successful will the law suit goes, but I do hope that we can withdraw all our partnership with IFAs. I do hope that will happen one day, ASAP.
 

Rommie2k6

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I sometimes wonder why ppl idolised the title "independent" so much. It simply means the adviser has wider range of products to sell. The chances of misinterpretation could be in fact much higher.

Ultimately, it's the ethics of the adviser that matters, not how much companies he can represent.

Go back to basic. You won't go wrong.

While the ethics of the adviser is important and not all IFA are good, a tied agent is confirmed to be unethical. If a tied agent was really ethical, he would be an IFA. Why? Because there will be some products that he is selling that is not as good as competitor products. So unless the tied agent is willing to forgo his commission and tell his client to go source from another company, one can be sure that tied agents can never have the best interest of the consumer.

Nevertheless, this incident shows that IFA can be unethical salespeople (as I pointed out at the very beginning of this post).

As I mentioned earlier, a good and ethical agent will be an IFA, but not all IFAs are good and ethical.
 
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Rommie2k6

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Btw, the consumers does not lose anything in the finexis case cos they never even pay anything. AXA seems to be the biggest loser. I hope they really sue finexis until their pants drop. It's people like that who give insurance companies a BAD name.

I blame it equally on AXA stupidity. Wasn't there a clause in their contract with finexis to claw back bonuses if the client drop the insurance after the 1st year? If there was, then no need to argue, cause the ruling will most likely favor AXA. If there wasn't then AXA is PLAIN STUPID... come up with a product and give it free to consumers for one year and expect a high retention rate? Oh please...
 

Kheetat

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While the ethics of the adviser is important and not all IFA are good, a tied agent is confirmed to be unethical. If a tied agent was really ethical, he would be an IFA. Why? Because there will be some products that he is selling that is not as good as competitor products. So unless the tied agent is willing to forgo his commission and tell his client to go source from another company, one can be sure that tied agents can never have the best interest of the consumer.

Nevertheless, this incident shows that IFA can be unethical salespeople (as I pointed out at the very beginning of this post).

As I mentioned earlier, a good and ethical agent will be an IFA, but not all IFAs are good and ethical.

I do feel that your opinion towards tied agents are very biased. Why cant tied agents be ethical too? Just because they represent only one company therefore they are unethical? I believe 'ethical' is not something measurable, but is from something within the adviser.
 

Rommie2k6

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I do feel that your opinion towards tied agents are very biased. Why cant tied agents be ethical too? Just because they represent only one company therefore they are unethical? I believe 'ethical' is not something measurable, but is from something within the adviser.

If you are a doctor and you only earn money through selling medicine (no consultation fees) and you can only sell medicine from one drug company... do you not see the problem there?

What if the medication you sell is not the best or most cost-effective amongst its competitors?

What do you do then? Do you sell the medicine to earn money knowing that your patient is probably better off taking medicine from another competitor brand that you do not sell? If you do, then your patient will either be taking a lousy medicine or paying more than what is required since he can get alternatives elsewhere for cheaper prices.

This analogy just describes the problems with tied agents. No tied agent can claim to be truly ethical because by doing so he will probably not earn enough money as he will be directing customers to other company's agents for cases when he knows that his company's products are no good.


So please... show me proof that a tied insurance agent can be ethical. Does he fulfill the following conditions:
1) Have good product knowledge of his company's product?
2) Have good product knowledge of competitor's product (at least 2/3 of competitor products)? If he does, where does he get it from since he does not have access to competitor's material?
3) Compares the products that he sells with competitor products and then recommend client the best option even if it means losing his commission by asking the client to go somewhere else to purchase stuff?
4) Knows about certain insurance types that his company does not sell but is beneficial to the client, and will recommend client to go source for it?
 
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