SMU honours system - how are they remunerated at the public sector?

junglegym

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Summa is a 1:1, and Magna is widely regarded as a 2:1, so Cum laude can at best be a 2:2.

I know the comparison is not accurate since they are different systems and not equivalent. But that's the general conversion people use. And incidentally, insofar as i've come across the CUm Laudes in SMU, those at Cum Laude level really don't show enough calibre to be considered a 2nd upper in NUS.

I don't know how true this is but if you've noticed the general requirement to qualify for admission to the Singapore Bar is a 2:2 from NUS. If we go by the above comparison, SMU law students would be required to graduate with at least a Cum Laude to practice law in Singapore. However, this is not the case. A minimum GPA of 3.0 is regarded as equivalent to a 2:2 as far as Bar admissions are concerned.

If you do a side by side comparison using both the NUS/NTU GPA system and the SMU GPA system, you would notice that a 3.0 GPA (a degree with merit) in SMU will translate to a 2:2 for NUS/NTU. I know that such a comparison will not provide us with an accurate picture of how the SMU GPA system measures up to the GPA system used by NTU/NUS but I just thought that this was an intriguing point of interest.
 

Petrelli_83

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Maybe as a point of interest, it is not a fair comparison to judge CUm Laude as a second lower. Yes, one of the posters were right. If u translate the GPA into the CAP, module for module, and point for point, a Cum Laude certainly seems undeserving of being called a second lower for lack of an equivalent. Direct translation subject to too many variables aside, (e.g. A in NUS may not carry the same weight as an A in SMU) the most important thing is most companies aren't going to do a point by point translation to see which class of honours do u really belong to. If u tell them you're a cum laude, nevermind your GPA can be a high 3.5, their first reaction would still be? Oh, third rank behind Summa and Magna. This sounds like a rough conversion that does the 3.5-er little justice, and suggests the person who directly converts it to a second lower has not seen enough, or does not appreciate the subtleties to make such a parochial and superficial first impression. But blame the human penchant to rank everything - a cum laude will always be remembered as the one who never made it to a magna, rather than as one who has achieved more than a pass.

That said, the smart thing to do when polishing ur resume is to emphasise your GPA rather than your cum laude if you're >3.5. Otherwise, just write "Cum Laude i.e. with Distinction".
 

sacrificium

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NTU/NUS A-/ A/ A+ = 4.5/ 5.0/ 5.0
SMU A-/ A/ A+ = 3.7 /4.0/ 4.3

NTU/NUS B-/ B/ B+ = 3.0/ 3.5/ 4.0
SMU B-/ B/ B+ = 2.7/ 3.0/ 3.3

So 3.3 = 2nd Upper...
 

Valkyrie

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Hi just to clarify things. NUS and NTU's system GPA is upon 5.0. SMU's GPA is upon 4.0. You simply cannot just translate by saying Summa means 1st class, Magna means 2nd upper and cum laude means 2nd lower. A very simplistic way of calculation would be to recalculate the GPA by percentage.

Therefore, 3.4/4.0 would translate into 4.25/5.0 GPA in an NUS/NTU system. Can any NUS/NTU ppl translate that into a honours classification?

I am not sure about the % of smu students that graduate with cum laudes and above, and I am also not sure of the % of nus/ntu students that graduate with 2nd upper honours.

Could the experts in this thread CSI something out, instead of relying on biased opinions?
 

Agravaine

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Hi just to clarify things. NUS and NTU's system GPA is upon 5.0. SMU's GPA is upon 4.0. You simply cannot just translate by saying Summa means 1st class, Magna means 2nd upper and cum laude means 2nd lower. A very simplistic way of calculation would be to recalculate the GPA by percentage.

Therefore, 3.4/4.0 would translate into 4.25/5.0 GPA in an NUS/NTU system. Can any NUS/NTU ppl translate that into a honours classification?

I am not sure about the % of smu students that graduate with cum laudes and above, and I am also not sure of the % of nus/ntu students that graduate with 2nd upper honours.

Could the experts in this thread CSI something out, instead of relying on biased opinions?
A 4.0 gets you a 2nd upper in NUS/NTU.

It'd be interesting to look at the % of ppl who graduate with the respective honours classes. It varies across courses though, with some having only 1 or 2 First Class grads every year.
 

Geforce3

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Hi just to clarify things. NUS and NTU's system GPA is upon 5.0. SMU's GPA is upon 4.0. You simply cannot just translate by saying Summa means 1st class, Magna means 2nd upper and cum laude means 2nd lower. A very simplistic way of calculation would be to recalculate the GPA by percentage.

Therefore, 3.4/4.0 would translate into 4.25/5.0 GPA in an NUS/NTU system. Can any NUS/NTU ppl translate that into a honours classification?

I am not sure about the % of smu students that graduate with cum laudes and above, and I am also not sure of the % of nus/ntu students that graduate with 2nd upper honours.

Could the experts in this thread CSI something out, instead of relying on biased opinions?

4.5 and above 1st

4.0 to 4.49 2nd upper
3.5 to 3.99 2nd lower
 

winstonia_83

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Apologies for digging up this old thread but I do feel that as an SMU alumni, I should probably attempt to give an objective stance on the equivalent recognition of SMU's honors system vis-a-vis NTU/NUS honours on a best effort basis. Feel free to give comments or suggestions regarding any points that you may find questionable in my presentation below.

Just a little bit about myself. I've worked at IB middle office for 2 years and very recently, made the switch to the civil service (for various reasons). The question of my remuneration corresponding to my honors thus arose. After bumping my head around a little bit, these are the results of my findings:

11-9-201112-17-14PM.png


B+ grade in NTU/NUS implies a minimum CAP of 4.0/5.0 while a B+ grade in SMU implies a minimum GPA of 3.30/40.
In NTU/NUS, if you get B+ for all your modules, you would get an average CAP of 4.0 and you would qualify for a 2nd Upper Honours.
However in SMU, if you get a B+ for all your modules, you would get an average CAP of 3.30, which is inadequate for a Cum Laude (which requires a 3.40 at least).

The above suggests that:
1) It is inaccurate to compare academic standing of students from SMU to those from NTU/NUS by comparing GPA to CAP numbers since the equivalent GPA/CAP to grading bucket (e.g. A,A-,A+) relationship already differs from the outset.

2) If a comparison must be made, grade buckets would probably provide a more unbiased assessment of a student's academic standing in his cohort since students are bucketed into their grades on a bell curve.

3) If 2) is true, the B+ student in NTU/NUS (who is a 2nd Upper Class Honours graduate) is the equivalent of a B+ student in SMU.

4) An SMU Cum Laude graduate, with the minimum GPA of 3.40, actually has an average grade that is slightly higher than B+. I.e. It follows that the cum laude graduate should also be technically qualified for 2nd Upper Class honours.

5) The above conclusion is based on an assumption that all of the universities grade their students using a bell curve methodology that is consistent across the board. I can't verify if their methodologies are the same, but I'd think it's safe to assume that they won't differ by too much since they are all prominent government funded educational institutions in Singapore and they do have to answer to the government in some way or another.

Some of my civil service peers have had their pay revised upwards after they reflected the above to HR upon receiving their letter of offer. Also, I hope I was clear and unbiased in the above discourse. I just wish to contribute and clear any confusion that may have clouded this topic.

Thanks for reading!
 

FrostWurm

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B+ grade in NTU/NUS implies a minimum CAP of 4.0/5.0 while a B+ grade in SMU implies a minimum GPA of 3.30/40.
In NTU/NUS, if you get B+ for all your modules, you would get an average CAP of 4.0 and you would qualify for a 2nd Upper Honours.
However in SMU, if you get a B+ for all your modules, you would get an average CAP of 3.30, which is inadequate for a Cum Laude (which requires a 3.40 at least).

The above suggests that:
1) It is inaccurate to compare academic standing of students from SMU to those from NTU/NUS by comparing GPA to CAP numbers since the equivalent GPA/CAP to grading bucket (e.g. A,A-,A+) relationship already differs from the outset.

2) If a comparison must be made, grade buckets would probably provide a more unbiased assessment of a student's academic standing in his cohort since students are bucketed into their grades on a bell curve.

3) If 2) is true, the B+ student in NTU/NUS (who is a 2nd Upper Class Honours graduate) is the equivalent of a B+ student in SMU.

4) An SMU Cum Laude graduate, with the minimum GPA of 3.40, actually has an average grade that is slightly higher than B+. I.e. It follows that the cum laude graduate should also be technically qualified for 2nd Upper Class honours.

Ya, but you are forgetting that an A+ in SMU gives you 4.3, while NTU and NUS make no distinction between A and A+. Thus in SMU, someone with and A+ and an A- will get a perfect GPA of 4.00/4.00, while an identical result in NTU/NUS will give you 4.75/5.00. It makes no sense to me to be able to score above the maximum grade and use it to pull up weaker modules.
 

cosycatus

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Ya, but you are forgetting that an A+ in SMU gives you 4.3, while NTU and NUS make no distinction between A and A+. Thus in SMU, someone with and A+ and an A- will get a perfect GPA of 4.00/4.00, while an identical result in NTU/NUS will give you 4.75/5.00. It makes no sense to me to be able to score above the maximum grade and use it to pull up weaker modules.

so, if someone scores A+ all the time, he will have 4.3 out of 4.0?
then what does he have? Magum Cum ladue?=:p
 

patryn33

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when it 1st came out to say it follows American system, I have yet to come across a US Uni with A+ = 4.3
http://www.college.upenn.edu/grades/gpa.php

LCA - Williams does it, however getting latin honors is not with strict GPA scale
http://web.williams.edu/registrar/records/gpa.html
35% of the graduating class -- Bachelor of Arts cum laude or higher
15% of the graduating class -- Bachelor of Arts magna cum laude or higher
2% of the graduating class -- Bachelor of Arts summa cum laude
 
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blurbloco

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so, if someone scores A+ all the time, he will have 4.3 out of 4.0?
then what does he have? Magum Cum ladue?=:p

A Summa Cum Laude would be more likely :).

Maybe this person would be the first in SMU history to be bestow the Egregia Cum Laude which is not in SMU's list of praises :p.
 

nlr3169

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i think smu students get a highe pay. Though it is very tough to get into NUS it is equally tough to get CAP > 4.0 whereas it is easy to get into SMU and get all the SUMMA and magna grades and walk off with fast pays !!!!
 

kantianimperative

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but SMU have A+ which gives u 4.3.

So... the scoring gets more screwed up.

It appears that there are may be some serious misconceptions about our local universities' academic credibility.

From what I know, NUS and NTU students have an option known as S/U, where the student can declare a module to be taken on an ungraded basis, i.e. the module's grade does not count into their GPA or CAP. NUS may be using a retrospective system, meaning you declare S/U after the grade is released, and NTU may be using a prospective system where you declare in advance.

There is of course a limit to the number of modules you can choose to declare using the S/U option. But whatever it is, it means NUS and NTU students can effectively neglect the poor grades they score in those modules.

Whereas in SMU, there is not such thing as S/U. If you happen to score very badly for a module, your only way out is to work harder for your other modules. In this case, an A+ seems to be the logical reprieve. but is it? As far as I know, an A+ is given to a handful of very outstanding students in the cohort, and some profs can choose not to give A+ if they do not think any student is deserving of it.

So to claim that "SMU's A+ screws the system up" may be a grossly unfair statement.

It is as good as comparing apples to oranges, when you compare the 2 types of classification systems. The fact is, no matter which education system you come from. If you are a first class or a summa cum laude, you must have really deserved it, for you can never get lucky throughout your university life. Everyone who has gone through university knows that.
 

tbs

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anyone has joined public service and would likle to share their experience? I got a cum laude and converted to second lower :( emailed HR they never reply :(
 
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