Is CPF a PONZI SCHEME?

goenitz33

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That is provided they didnt jumped into the wrong CPF Life Plan.

CPF Board - Ask Us
Birth Date

In or after 1958

1) Automatic inclusion:

Upon reaching age 55 if you have at least $40,000 in RA; or
Upon reaching 65 if you have at least $60,000 in RA

also there is no escaping CPF Life.
 

goenitz33

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Then again of course, along this course of time, from now until one reaches 55, which is like 20-30 years later, there will be more locks introduced to keep your money under guard. (Thats why to say it is tax, can make one feel better lol)

Currently:

On or after 1 Jan 2013

Cash balances can only be withdrawn after setting aside both the CPF Minimum Sum and Medisave Minimum Sum.
 

yeokiwi

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NTB2DO wrote:

BTW so far govt have not revealed how much CPF fund they are holding and exactly where the fund is being held/invested, have they?

They cant and they wont.

Any political party / government is the same :s13:

thus i said, there is nothing wrong with the system, only problem is the system itself. :s13:

Cham.... last time still need to go library and find out. now easily can find in internet and people do not bother.
and then start to accuse...

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/703B9E3C-995F-4C84-9368-AD6CD707D957/0/Financial_Statements.pdf
 

goenitz33

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Cham.... last time still need to go library and find out. now easily can find in internet and people do not bother.
and then start to accuse...

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/703B9E3C-995F-4C84-9368-AD6CD707D957/0/Financial_Statements.pdf

I dont really think you understand what i am trying to point out.

"thus i said, there is nothing wrong with the system, only problem is the system itself."

Also with a single party rule, the government is showing what it wants to show and not what the citizens wants to see.

Its not about showing a bunch of reports / figures without being crossed checked by others will convince ppl.

So before you start accusing ppl that are accusing others, please understand where they are coming from.
 

yeokiwi

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Its not about showing a bunch of reports / figures without being crossed checked by others will convince ppl.

Opinion

In our opinion, the financial statements of the funds managed by the Board are properly drawn up in accordance with the provisions of the Act and Statutory Board Financial Reporting Standards and to present fairly, in all material respects, the net assets of the funds managed by the Board as at 31 December 2010 and the changes in these fund balances and cash flows for the year ended on that date.
Report on other legal and regulatory requirements
In our opinion, the accounting and other records required by the Act to be kept by the Board have been properly kept in accordance with the provisions of the Act.During the course of our audit, nothing came to our notice that caused us to believe that the receipt, expenditure and investment of monies and the acquisition and disposal of assets by the Board during the year have not been in accordance with the provisions of the Act.

KPMG LLP
Public Accountants and
Certified Public Accountants
 

goenitz33

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Opinion

In our opinion, the financial statements of the funds managed by the Board are properly drawn up in accordance with the provisions of the Act and Statutory Board Financial Reporting Standards and to present fairly, in all material respects, the net assets of the funds managed by the Board as at 31 December 2010 and the changes in these fund balances and cash flows for the year ended on that date.
Report on other legal and regulatory requirements
In our opinion, the accounting and other records required by the Act to be kept by the Board have been properly kept in accordance with the provisions of the Act.During the course of our audit, nothing came to our notice that caused us to believe that the receipt, expenditure and investment of monies and the acquisition and disposal of assets by the Board during the year have not been in accordance with the provisions of the Act.

KPMG LLP
Public Accountants and
Certified Public Accountants

I believe this is where the problem is, not that i am saying i am more qualified then these ppl who have crossed checked. :s7:

Anyway i rest my case, basically we are coming from two different viewpoints and will never see eye to eye :s13:
 

cancer81

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I dont really think you understand what i am trying to point out.

"thus i said, there is nothing wrong with the system, only problem is the system itself."

Also with a single party rule, the government is showing what it wants to show and not what the citizens wants to see.

Its not about showing a bunch of reports / figures without being crossed checked by others will convince ppl.

So before you start accusing ppl that are accusing others, please understand where they are coming from.
a healthy dose of scepticism is needed the thing is once there is too much, it become conspiracy theories :s22:
 

yeokiwi

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a healthy dose of scepticism is needed the thing is once there is too much, it become conspiracy theories :s22:

It is more of the unfairness towards the staffs of CPF who have done all the works, accounted for every penny, get it audited by external independent auditors and then being accused of cooking the book?

Very sian isn't it?
 

goenitz33

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a healthy dose of scepticism is needed the thing is once there is too much, it become conspiracy theories :s22:

so whats the best way to stamp out conspiracy theories and rumors?

Total Transparency

So far we have yet to see it happening.

So far no one knows whether if someone else take over the government will do what the previous one is doing or will be transparent.

thus i said all political parties are the same, 换汤不换药.
 

celsus

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as the govt would say if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear from internal sec...*cough* I mean transparency
 

xdivider

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It is more of the unfairness towards the staffs of CPF who have done all the works, accounted for every penny, get it audited by external independent auditors and then being accused of cooking the book?

Very sian isn't it?

Tell that to NKF staff. I recall, their auditors gave them a clean bill of health.............b4 the scandal.........
 

NTB2DO

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Cham.... last time still need to go library and find out. now easily can find in internet and people do not bother.
and then start to accuse...

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...Statements.pdf

Honestly didn't know (also didn't know can find from internet) that's why I wonder lor.. (And from what I read, the amount they have in there is impressively huge!)

Anyway the best way to convince people that their fund is truely there is to just let people draw the full amount upon their retirement--instead of introducing some "minimum sum" restriction lor. On one hand govt say oh people cannot expect govt to be "nanny", on the other, govt insist on playing nanny when it comes to their money (CPF)?
 

cancer81

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Tell that to NKF staff. I recall, their auditors gave them a clean bill of health.............b4 the scandal.........

that one was not really a case of cooking the books

Durai misused his position and gave contracts to a company he is connected to... which failed to deliver on the project

the stuff like using a gold plated tap? morales is not something the auditors check iirc
 

cancer81

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so whats the best way to stamp out conspiracy theories and rumors?

Total Transparency

So far we have yet to see it happening.

So far no one knows whether if someone else take over the government will do what the previous one is doing or will be transparent.

thus i said all political parties are the same, 换汤不换药.

there is more to this...

declaring what stuff a public fund is investing into will have a very big impact on the markets.

instead of giving you peace of mind, the government will destabilise the market.... if you believe me that is...
 

xdivider

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that one was not really a case of cooking the books

Durai misused his position and gave contracts to a company he is connected to... which failed to deliver on the project

the stuff like using a gold plated tap? morales is not something the auditors check iirc

Even last year, when the Ministry of Health asked KPMG to do an ad-hoc review of the NKF’s tax-deductible receipts, the audit firm found no large-scale weaknesses, he said. This year, in contrast, KPMG dug up a history of atrocious governance during its extensive independent probe into the organisation’s internal processes. The auditor had been engaged by the NKF’s new board after some shocking revelations about the practices of former chief executive T T Durai.

From none to have. I remember one of them is the all expense trip to Vegas. My point is nothing is a replacement for true transparency where every deals is laid bare. Short of that you depend on the integrity of the auditee. Once that is lost, even a change in mgt wun bring back confidence..........
 

cancer81

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Honestly didn't know (also didn't know can find from internet) that's why I wonder lor.. (And from what I read, the amount they have in there is impressively huge!)

Anyway the best way to convince people that their fund is truely there is to just let people draw the full amount upon their retirement--instead of introducing some "minimum sum" restriction lor. On one hand govt say oh people cannot expect govt to be "nanny", on the other, govt insist on playing nanny when it comes to their money (CPF)?
there is an easy answer to that question

the state does not want to take care of penniless seniors who spent all their monies. Even with minimum sum, plenty are getting cheated of their CPF money...

plenty of these people actually feel that someone failed to protect them...

and we start the social safety net debate all over again
 

cancer81

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From none to have. I remember one of them is the all expense trip to Vegas. My point is nothing is a replacement for true transparency where every deals is laid bare. Short of that you depend on the integrity of the auditee. Once that is lost, even a change in mgt wun bring back confidence..........
all systems are only as strong as the people implementing them

can't say more
 

goenitz33

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there is more to this...

declaring what stuff a public fund is investing into will have a very big impact on the markets.

instead of giving you peace of mind, the government will destabilise the market.... if you believe me that is...

It is a what if effect, it might or might not happen.

Besides this particular public fund is supposed to be invested in extreme low risk and stable government bonds, technically speaking, it will not affect much even if it is known.

越黑暗的事,就越需要掩饰 :s13:
 

cancer81

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hey you ask me there are other stuff that I want to be taken out of the black box...

like the various employment passes application process and PR/citizenship application

it is also a widely accepted fact that you cannot just have CPF alone... I think there are more important stuff that is "kept under wraps"
 

NTB2DO

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there is an easy answer to that question

the state does not want to take care of penniless seniors who spent all their monies. Even with minimum sum, plenty are getting cheated of their CPF money...

plenty of these people actually feel that someone failed to protect them...

and we start the social safety net debate all over again

Ya lah, after all that has been their official justification all along lor..

But the question is, how "plenty" is thier "plenty"? 50%, 20%, or just 2%?
 
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