HDB Occupier VS co-owner

therat

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IMO, if you not working or has young children.
Better to be co-owner. This is to protect yourself and your young children.
In case, anything happen, at least you still had a roof top.
Assume the main bread provider has buy HPS.

Don't assume, your family has good relationship etc.
There are many cases, family fight when money get involve.
 

KopRulez

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KopRulez, thanks a lot for clarification!

nuar777, I have found this from a law consulting firm.

Islamic Law


In a 2-party joint tenancy, the surviving tenant will only own 1/2 plus her faraid share of the property

eg Wife gets (1/2 + 1/4 of ½ = 5/8) of property if deceased has no children.
 

o0KelviN0o

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sorry to sidetrack a little...

currently my wife & i are owners of our current HDB ("A") and we may upgrade to a bigger one ("B") soon.

can i be the owner and my wife the occupier if i am the only one servicing the loan ("B")? if she is the occupier of "B", can she take over her parent's flat when they pass on?

not sure if anyone answered my question above?
 

nuar777

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Hey guys, thanks a lot! Your replies are really helpful.

I will update the thread if get any more updates from MUIS, but for now it's quite clear that a couple need to own a flat as co-owners in order to be protected by both Civil and Muslim laws.

Thanks a lot.
 

henrylbh

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once you own a HDB, your occupier status in another flat will be remove.

I was register as occupier at my MIL HDB. She is the only owner.
When we bought a HDB, our name (me and my spouse) automatic remove from my MIL occupier.

Just to add to what your mentioned.

I am an owner of a flat which I sublet wholly. I am now staying at my sister's flat and I have changed the address in my NRIC accordingly. I also wanted to register myself as authorised occupier in my sis flat. However, HDB does not allow me because they said I am an owner of a HDB flat.
 

therat

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From my observation, the couples do not have kid ....

Oh!

The story I heard is the couples has 2 childrens.
Each one take one.
Then buy 2 HDB Flats under divorce scheme.

Rent out one and stay together.
 

henrylbh

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Oh!

The story I heard is the couples has 2 childrens.
Each one take one.
Then buy 2 HDB Flats under divorce scheme.

Rent out one and stay together.

But they cant sublet whole flat without meeting MOP.
 

acetylcholine

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Hey guys, thanks a lot! Your replies are really helpful.

I will update the thread if get any more updates from MUIS, but for now it's quite clear that a couple need to own a flat as co-owners in order to be protected by both Civil and Muslim laws.

Thanks a lot.

There is a difference between a joint tenancy and a tenancy-in-common.

In the event that the flat is held under a joint tenancy, the death of one owner will result in the surviving owner being the sole owner of the entire flat. In other words, the estate of the deceased will not be entitled to any share in the flat.

This can be contrasted with a tenancy-in-common, where upon the death of one owner, the share of the deceased belongs to his estate and will be distributed accordingly (whether according to the will, intestacy laws or religious law in your case).
 

tmfwy

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In layman's practical terms

Co-Owner
Should your husband pass away, flat will be passed to surviving co-owner due to right of survivorship

Occupier
You are just an occupier
upon the death of the owner, the occupier will be evicted and needs a court case to obtain the flat under equity (eg: Hubby / Wife case )

I am not sure about Syariah vs Civil law

I was also facing a similar situation and the main question above my head was this:
In the event of my death, i would like my wife / kids to have a roof over their heads with a minimum of fuss.

I intend to convert my wife's occupier status to co-owner status because the last thing i want is for her to worry about housing issues during such a period. [ ab experienced HDB officer did tell me that it is advisable to do this before i collect my keys, as there is a significant difference in fees paid before and after key collection ]

HOWEVER, one thing i am not clear is this
I understand the issue of jus accresandi. What i am unclear is that
when i was facing a rookie HDB officer, she kept on insisting that whether co-owner or occupier, flat will get repossessed by HDB if i pass away before the child reaches the age of majority. Her reasoning is that both my wife ( PR ) + kid ( if before age of majority ) will not form a family nucleus.If after age of majority, she said that it is still SUBJECT TO HDB to determine if wife and child eligible to stay in flat??? [ THIS NEEDS CLARIFICATION ]

The information threadstarter needs is here:
HDB InfoWEB: Types of Transfers : Living in HDB flats : Change Owners or Occupiers

But IMO, it is better for both hubby+wife to be co-owners.
If not co-owner, it means the occupier, if wife, will need to go through some legal mumbo jumbo to ensure the flat is retained in the event of death of the flat owner.
Imaging you are grieving for your loss ( touch wood ), and you receive a letter from HDB saying that you are not eligible to retain the flat.
 
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KopRulez

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under old rule.
Buy resale HDB w/o grant w/o HDB loan.

I can't remember is 1 yrs MOP or no MOP.

It's 2.5yrs. (corrected, should be 3yrs)

I'm under the old rule.
 
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KopRulez

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HOWEVER, one thing i am not clear is this
I understand the issue of jus accresandi. What i am unclear is that when i was facing a rookie HDB officer, she kept on insisting that whether co-owner or occupier, flat will get repossessed by HDB if i pass away before the child reaches the age of majority. Her reasoning is that both my wife ( PR ) + kid ( if before age of majority ) will not form a family nucleus.If after age of majority, she said that it is still SUBJECT TO HDB to determine if wife and child eligible to stay in flat??? [ THIS NEEDS CLARIFICATION ]

The information threadstarter needs is here:
HDB InfoWEB: Types of Transfers : Living in HDB flats : Change Owners or Occupiers

But IMO, it is better for both hubby+wife to be co-owners.
If not co-owner, it means the occupier, if wife, will need to go through some legal mumbo jumbo to ensure there is a roof over their heads in the event of death of the flat owner.

tmfwy, your HDB officer that you have talked to does not explain to you in great length but some valid points are there. Although this does not apply to you at this moment, there is a right of survivorship in a joint-tenancy ownership. Which means your interest (if you have passed away) will automatically be passed to the remaining co-owner(s), if your wife is registered as a co-owner.

The remaining family or single occupier is allowed to retain the existing flat after the owner has passed away, provided they satisfy HDB's prevailing eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat.

Referring to your case, I have some case references and I do have friends whose wife is still a occupier and some have SPR, some not. If sole owner passed away, the occupier (wife) and his issue will have to engage a lawyer to apply to the Sub Court for a Grant of Probate. It is more complicated especially if the child/children is/are below 21 years old. The occupier must be either SC or SPR. Furthermore, they have to satisfy HDB rules and condition to own a flat.

So in a nutshell, we should protect our partner and our children if something happen to us, which I already did in my earlier post when my wife become a SPR few years after we bought a resale together. Mortgage insurance like HPS also benefit both of us to reduce the burden of outstanding loan.

However, there is no right of survivorship in tenancy-in-common ownership and the deceased interested will be distributed according to Intestate Succession Act.
 

nuar777

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KopRulez, from your post I understood that if something happen to my hubby, I will not be able to stay in our HDB (irrespective of co-ownership and Muslim laws) because I'm PR and no kids for now. And PRs are not allowed to own HDB.

Am I right?
 

KopRulez

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KopRulez, from your post I understood that if something happen to my hubby, I will not be able to stay in our HDB (irrespective of co-ownership and Muslim laws) because I'm PR and no kids for now. And PRs are not allowed to own HDB.

Am I right?

SPR have to satisfy HDB's prevailing eligibility rules and conditions before you can retain the existing flat.

It will be more complicated if your hubby has living parents, brothers or siblings as I think they can stake a share, according to muslim laws. Have to check more on this.
 

henrylbh

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under old rule.
Buy resale HDB w/o grant w/o HDB loan.

I can't remember is 1 yrs MOP or no MOP.

I bought flat in 2007. After one year can sell and after 3 years can sublet whole flat.
 
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