Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds

[jq75]

April 7, 2006
Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds

Firm denies this and suggests they switch to more costly plan

By Chua Hian Hou
GAMERS are complaining that sluggish StarHub broadband speeds are turning fleet-footed virtual commandos into zombie-like cannon fodder.

In online shooting games like CounterStrike and Battlefield2, players win by shooting other players while avoiding their return fire. All this action is tracked by a central game server, which receives and sends data from a gamer's computer. Delays in the transmission of this data - or 'lag' in Internet parlance - curbs a player's ability to win.

Complaints about Singapore's largest broadband Internet service provider (ISP), which serves 51 per cent of residential broadband subscribers, have surfaced at popular online hangouts like GameAxis and sgForums, and in interviews with gamers.

The Straits Times found significantly fewer complaints about SingNet, and none about Pacific Internet on these sites.

At GameAxis, a thread sarcastically titled 'StarHub is good for your gaming experience' has ballooned to 20 pages, filled with complaints about 'LagOnline' - a play on the name of StarHub's broadband service, MaxOnline.

Rival SingNet had previously highlighted this thread on its website.

One unhappy gamer is polytechnic student Eugene Sng, 20, who is upset that 'the hobby I love has become so frustrating.'

The MaxOnline 6500 subscriber who pays 'about $70' a month said he did not have lag problems when he used SingNet's broadband service previously.

'I've made 15 complaints to StarHub in the past four months, and each time they said they will do something about it. But there has been no improvement, and I can't do anything except 'tong' (Hokkien slang for suffer stoically) until my contract is up in five months.'

StarHub senior vice-president for IP services Thomas Ee dismissed complaints like Mr Sng's as 'few and far between', adding that 'speed can be subjective and we do not agree our connection is slower'.

The problem, he said, is likely to be the game server's inability to cope with the game's demands. Most game servers are run by individuals or gaming industry organisations, not by ISPs like StarHub.

No way, said commercial pilot and gamer Kenneth Tan, 34, who also heard this reply when he complained. 'How can this be true when SingNet or PacNet users don't face problems with the game server?' countered the MaxOnline 6500 user, who declined to take up StarHub's suggested solution to his woes: switching to a more expensive plan.

An expert familiar with Internet networking technology, Juniper Networks chief technology officer for Asia Pacific Andrew Coward, said StarHub's problem is network congestion, a common occurrence when there is insufficient bandwidth or hardware to cope with demand.

When too many users try to send data simultaneously in a congested network, some data will be delayed or even dropped, much like the problem gamers face.

'Congestion won't affect activities like surfing the Internet or movie downloads, but it is a problem for lag-sensitive activities like gaming,' he said.

This is borne out by the many subscribers drawn by StarHub's fast download speeds. Even as the gamers grouse, some admit they will stick with StarHub for its fantastic movie, music and software download capabilities.

What Mr Coward describes is the situation gamers face with StarHub, said Mr Reuben Conceicao, manager of World Cyber Games (WCG) Singapore CounterStrike champion Team Titans.

'The gaming community's issue with StarHub is that its connection speeds lack reliability and consistency, not the amount of data a StarHub user can download.'

The Titans are sponsored by SingNet, which also sponsors about 20 other WCG winners.

Mr Coward believes a solution is for StarHub to buy more hardware and provide more bandwidth, rather than for gamers to upgrade to one of its faster, more expensive plans.

Since upgrades cost money, this will happen only when the ISP feels compelled to do so - for example, if it starts losing large numbers of subscribers.
:s8:

[Mclairs83]

Ya Laghub..continue to be stubborn..n u see ur complaints everytime in straits times. :)

[richneo]

lol even "Coward" also claims that starhub is congested.

[misato]

LoL.
Bag of lame excess to avoid taking action. OR maybe they are ill educated.
Most of the gaming server, popular ones especally popular ones are hosted in datacenters. by their respective network. ie Pagn, Internode, gamearena.

[chaicka]

lol even "Coward" also claims that starhub is congested.
It is a known fact among the "networking" segment across the industry...;)

Given the current infrastructure design, the bottlenecks "here and there", it's no doubt that latency-sensitive or lag-sensitive applications such as gaming, video conferencing, VoIP will suffer.

However, it's not as if SingNet is any better in current context. There are new bottlenecks emerging in the whole infrastructure design. Just that the impacted "area" is smaller.

Correct me if I am wrong, most games use a mix of TCP and UDP protocols or even UDP as mainstream?

Sometimes, traceroutes performed are being "fooled" or "tricked" to believe that there is no problem wif the network. But traceroute has two types (correct me if I am wrong), one is the traditional which base on ICMP packets, the other is base on UDP (aka UDP Traceroute).

So, when the normal icmp traceroutes dun show anything abnormal, perform an udp traceroute and u may find some interesting results. ;)

[halocast]

two words.... HUB SUCKS.. lol

[carey]

SuckHub? As in both our bandwidth and money...sigh

[dreant]

The Straits Times found significantly fewer complaints about SingNet, and none about Pacific Internet on these sites.

Maybe because no one uses PI?

[solidghost]

since it is in the straits times, starhub is going to be hurt by this report.

[kd2000]

I think one of the causes of Starhub's slowness is that their routing is done at each of the estate using not as superior routers as the routers used at the data center like what Singnet is doing. These access routers are located in a hot and small telco room at the ground floor of the hdb.

[SolarBurn]

gogo LagHub
i thought there's a government agency that monitors the ISPs? why dun lay a fine on LagHub? like Microsoft like that, everyday kanna fine until they solve the problem?

[Shawshankredempti0n]

StarHub senior vice-president for IP services Thomas Ee dismissed complaints like Mr Sng's as 'few and far between', adding that 'speed can be subjective and we do not agree our connection is slower'.


Few and far between indeed. This indeed shows how DETECHED the management of Suckhub is from reality.

Some people complains that PAP has no idea what the real ordinary citizens are thinking.. sh!t I think Suckhub is 100000x worst! :D

These people have no pride in their work. They just want to do his job and then fk off back home on the dot when the time to knock off comes everyday.

[chaicka]

I think one of the causes of Starhub's slowness is that their routing is done at each of the estate using not as superior routers as the routers used at the data center like what Singnet is doing. These access routers are located in a hot and small telco room at the ground floor of the hdb.

u mean the routers together wif the CMTSes?

CMTSes are located at other places too... not necessary hdb void decks. ;)

[zer0ne]

since it is in the straits times, starhub is going to be hurt by this report.

You expect bunch of "ostrich" in SH hiding their heads to react when in trouble? Their standard reply: Everythings fine on our side.

[jeRrRKKKK]

i think this is complete bs.
anybody wanna try out MY connection? i have wifi and you can bring your laptop and test my connection if you wanna... i can allow you to test even stuff like BT and webhosting services even... i've been playing games on mol without problems at all... and yes i play BF2 quite alot too... can check up my rank if you will... i've unlocked ALL the guns already

the problem with people is that they don't know how to find the right servers... usually servers based in thailand, japan and korea are ok, with japanese servers giving the best connections... should you connect to a server based in europe, australia or america, you'll surely experience lag... so simply avoid connecting to such servers

i was playing cs when i switched from singnet to mol, with singnet i used to have 100+ pings... with MOL my average pings were 40 - 100.. haven't tested CS since the awp changed... and if you wanna you can go check up my CS history too... i'm no lightweight at the game

[VoodooKing]

Is that really his surname? "Coward"? Wow. I wonder what his school life was like.

[Fatfool]

Maybe because no one uses PI?
possibly so. I don't play this sort of FPS so cannot report on pacnet's peformance lol. but with the only 2 FPS multiplayer games i've played with pacnet, quake 3 lags a lot due to overseas servers (but VERY low latency when i had a chance to join a server someone in singapore was hosting)

Wolfenstein: Enemy territory had bout 100 ping for hong kong servers. still playable....
Singapore servers (Pagn, SH, SN etc) had around 50. Leeching off my neighbour's connection(MOL2K) oddly turn up about half that latency lol.

[Expert]

on starhub since 2001.. played CS for 3plus years.. during the first 2 years, i admit starhub has 2x the ping of singnet.. but it's non laggy wat.. after that starhub pings dropped to abt singnet's lvl.. nowadays it's singnet that's laggy lo.. u can ask ard those csers.. -_-|

[leaving_footsteps]

MOL is slower than Singnet for me when it comes to games. The ping seems similar, but when it comes to 'running' around in the game, singnet's connection is obviously superior.

[lobo76]

on starhub since 2001.. played CS for 3plus years.. during the first 2 years, i admit starhub has 2x the ping of singnet.. but it's non laggy wat.. after that starhub pings dropped to abt singnet's lvl.. nowadays it's singnet that's laggy lo.. u can ask ard those csers.. -_-|

CS is still okay bah. It is, well, outdated to me...
in any case, due to the huge number of servers out there, connecting to one isn't really an issue at all. Moreover, it stresses on individual skill, so you can just waltz into any server and play.

BF2 is different. It is about TEAMWORK. We need to work together, hence we need to TALK/TYPE to each other in game. The stupid jerk keeps talking about Japan Korean server, of course we know about those. How the F88k though, do you expect me to communicate to them? I am not a selfish S.O.B which is individualistic. If I were, i may stick to CS.
Thus, of course Australia (english speaking country) is the natural choice, since Singapore have so few servers.

[liangtam]

It sure sounds like a SingNet supportive article. Then again, there is still a problem with the article, more upload bandwidth do not mean lower latency.

[universe]

the jerk has once again spoken
somehow, it seems that everything that's not fine in 90% of the ppl here are fine in jerk's side...
i wonder why

[carey]

the jerk has once again spoken
somehow, it seems that everything that's not fine in 90% of the ppl here are fine in jerk's side...
i wonder why

Maybe jerk is what we call in Hokkien - "tee kong kia"

Or maybe his standard is so low that he's easily contended...

[lobo76]

It sure sounds like a SingNet supportive article. Then again, there is still a problem with the article, more upload bandwidth do not mean lower latency.

bah, singnet itself isn't in great shape. after the deluge of new subscribers ( i am guessing here), their networks seems to be as congested. Latency for BF2 to australia servers have increased to the point where they aren't playable anymore.

in short, local ISPs can only provide online gaming for the sibei sibei popular games (of which some are outdated, but i dun think anyone in the ISPs keep track). For new games, very difficult. How, I wonder, are we supposed to be a gaming hub, playing the few games over and over again?

[speedknight]

SNBB is having problems with thier networks right now becuase there is a sudden influx of new customers, this happen everytime after PC shows,however this time round they seem abit slow in sloving the problem now the problem is partially slove nia.for starhub,thoese saying that you get very good connection is becuase your block have fewer MOL connection,which mean sharing of bandwidth is less,talking abt sharing of bandwidth ,i belive now SN is not incresing the bandwidth so we are exprecing lag.As for pacnet,is abt the same as SNbb since it is riding on SNBB backbone.

[rainboiboi]

knn la. This article really make me tulan. What has ping got to do with bandwith?
Does it mean higher bandwith will experience no lag at all?
Dont tell me lagonline ulti has one digit ping...
Want our money then ask us upgrade to higher plan....
ZZzzzzz

My dota has been ruined by the stupid lag that laghub has and wtf they are telling me to pay more...No way man..

[confused]

If they throw more money at the problem, it will probably go away.

Starhub seems more content to just hook people in with their "freebies" and then just heck care. Their shareholders are more important. Screw the consumers. Maximize their quad-services (internet, cable tv, mobile phone and telephone) and then tie in the consumers. Their marketing strategy is more like that.

[liangtam]

The myth of PacNet riding on SingNet backbone is not true.
Might as well say Starhub piggybacking on SingNet, so SingNet is bad as well when gaming?

[XP]

http://www.colonyraiders.net/images/laghub.gif

[XP]

The myth of PacNet riding on SingNet backbone is not true.
Might as well say Starhub piggybacking on SingNet, so SingNet is bad as well when gaming?

I would say Starhub chewed off more than they can swallow.

[destoh]

Is that really his surname? "Coward"? Wow. I wonder what his school life was like.

See the way this "guy" from the J company reply...he seems more fit to work as a Sales Director or what...Since he is the CTO, find his answer to the problem a bit too simple... no good just buy new equipment... So what if expressway traffic jam, then wat? Blame LTA? never even find out what causes the jam? could be accident, heavy rain etc..do you think just by building more expressway solve the problem???

think there are simply too many factors affecting users experiences on online gaming...I had friends from both Sing** and Star** camp... and guess wat, both got die hard supporters from both and tell me how good it is...on the otherhand also some will like complain until no saliva

so who is right? who is wrong?

Frankly it is always easier to point finger then spending effort doing more research to find out more about the problem.

:s13: :s22: :s12:

[ooops]

Woot! Finally, an article worth reading!

But Singnet don't be so proud hor cuz my...

BF2 & WoW STILL LAGS LIKE HELL!

Go n fix the problem b4 i ask Straits Times to publish ur story... :s22:

[KXY]

WoW is alright when you play like 9am-2pm in weekday... But he ping can drop to 1k+ after 7pm, and average ping for WoW during weekend is 400-1.2k.

[twinnie07]

many factors can affect the user experience on their online gaming.. however, it's not fair to point finger at ONLY one ISP here..there's also feedback on slow gaming for SNBB. SNBB supporters will only worship SN and critise starhub like nobody biz. vice versa.. sometimes it could be the game servers that cant cope with too many concurrent users at one time.. public internet is shared by both ADSL and Cable users.. so is there any other path can each of them go??

[Mohawks]

the main grouse is why MOL users faces high pings when connecting to a local server in PAGN

it's not the server, coz my ping with that same server is 10-15ms (using PNBB) most of the time

[yuri2]

See the way this "guy" from the J company reply...he seems more fit to work as a Sales Director or what...Since he is the CTO, find his answer to the problem a bit too simple... no good just buy new equipment... So what if expressway traffic jam, then wat? Blame LTA? never even find out what causes the jam? could be accident, heavy rain etc..do you think just by building more expressway solve the problem???

think there are simply too many factors affecting users experiences on online gaming...I had friends from both Sing** and Star** camp... and guess wat, both got die hard supporters from both and tell me how good it is...on the otherhand also some will like complain until no saliva

so who is right? who is wrong?

Frankly it is always easier to point finger then spending effort doing more research to find out more about the problem.

:s13: :s22: :s12:
Most sensible comment I have read so far. :D

[SpinFire]

I love this statement:

Since upgrades cost money, this will happen only when the ISP feels compelled to do so - for example, if it starts losing large numbers of subscribers.

The author sounds like he's rallying a boycott of StarHub, lol.

:)

[zeroex]

but that analogy: If expressway jam is becos cars are not fast enuf mah, upgrade from ur impreza to a WRX that does 180kph will solve ur expressway problem lor! Either that or must be becos not enuf parking at Shopping centre and car park, then more pple still left on the road, thats why orchard rd always jam, solution is to make the car park bigger and all cars faster!

[Ev0d3vil]

Can we send a petiton to SNBB too? I am receving lag when last time i didnt receive it.

[Webbyboy]

Even within ISP's own network, the ping is bad, singapore is so small, yet the pings in singapore can go like 40+. IN Korea itself, which is much bigger than singapore, normally the server is in Seoul, and live around Seoul, you get 10ms and below. Normally about 3 - 5ms~ when playing CS, NS etc..And if you live in Busan which is about 4 hours away from Seoul, you get only 20+ms. It's time for ISP here to upgrade their hardware to handle the loads and newer tech.

[BlackCube]

why no people says about their own hardware that might also cause lagness while gaming ?

almost everyone comp has different spec's while lotsa pple are using the same connection speed etc.

some pple with better spec's but same connection speed as other will say that their problem is not that big and vice versa.

sometimes, u can't look at a problem in only one perspective.

[Ariedartin]

Webbyboy, I get a ping of 8 on a LAN, and there are only two computers. how can you get less than 5ms on a WAN, then?

they need to spend money on upgrading the network connections that lead out of the country to the rest of the world, not just the national network. that's why there's no way the government can directly fix this problem. the super-fast network they are proposing to build will be useless if we don't have bigger internet pipes between our national network and the rest of the internet.

[Ariedartin]

many factors can affect the user experience on their online gaming.. however, it's not fair to point finger at ONLY one ISP here..there's also feedback on slow gaming for SNBB. SNBB supporters will only worship SN and critise starhub like nobody biz. vice versa.. sometimes it could be the game servers that cant cope with too many concurrent users at one time.. public internet is shared by both ADSL and Cable users.. so is there any other path can each of them go??

you must understand. we only start noticing something is going wrong only when one user gets a significantly different ping from another user at the same time. however, this should not be happening if the problem is with the server connection, instead of the user connection. if it was a server problem, everyone would have similar pings, and we'll complain to the server admin instead. but when they aren't similar, then we conclude that it must be the problem with the ISPs. logical?

I doubt it is true about the SNBB and SH supporters. as far as I have seen, we aren't evangelists here like in USA. we merely base our opinions on our own experiences.

[LemonT]

1) No ISP in SG can say they are the 'fastest' ISP currently, because all are practising oversubscription to their networks. One ISP maybe faster to 1 game server, while lagging in the other. No clear winner.

2) Troubleshooting game packets are kind of hard because it's real time data, the packets comes in spurts, not continously and consistently like http or ftp. Sometimes game server/admins are not willing to divulge their server layouts and their IPs are masked. ICMP packets are useless for games.

3) Cable is inferior to ADSL generally for time critical data generally because of its 'shared' nature from cmts to your house. If your node has leechers who grabs all the bandwidth (eg. BT), then there's nothing left for you, you can curse and swear but in network, it's 1st come 1st serve, so usually spurts of data will not be 1st priority compare to consistent streaming like ftp/http. One way to curb this is using QOS or network management which a lot of people especially leechers are complaining.

SPs usually classified a node to a few blocks, so speed will vary greatly between each node. Easiest way to gauge speed is to go to your neighbour's hse and test.

2 cents

[SpinFire]

It is time the ISPs upgrade their hardware. They're over-charging us for inferior services.

[Webbyboy]

Webbyboy, I get a ping of 8 on a LAN, and there are only two computers. how can you get less than 5ms on a WAN, then?

they need to spend money on upgrading the network connections that lead out of the country to the rest of the world, not just the national network. that's why there's no way the government can directly fix this problem. the super-fast network they are proposing to build will be useless if we don't have bigger internet pipes between our national network and the rest of the internet.


then your LAN has problem, it's suppose to be <1ms. Look at this:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4462/copulse00000ml.gif (http://imageshack.us)

A simple traceroute to starhub website, not downloading anything ATM:

Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 47 ms 72 ms 17 ms 10.43.0.1
3 44 ms 65 ms 27 ms 172.20.43.129
4 138 ms 15 ms 54 ms 172.26.43.1
5 33 ms 18 ms 47 ms 172.20.8.49
6 44 ms 24 ms 163 ms 203.116.7.13
7 128 ms 34 ms 33 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-2-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.1
18.5.5]
8 31 ms 19 ms 53 ms vlan917-cat6k-ts2-r2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.2
35]
9 130 ms 79 ms 55 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
10 65 ms 46 ms 54 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
11 26 ms 61 ms 73 ms 203.118.2.18
12 588 ms 32 ms 25 ms 203.116.254.109

[Webbyboy]

In Korea:

[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> Tracing route to www.daum.net [211.115.115.212]
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> over a maximum of 30 hops:
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 1 8 ms 9 ms 11 ms 10.113.48.1
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 2 7 ms 10 ms 7 ms 211.187.209.49
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 3 11 ms 9 ms 10 ms 211.108.63.153
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 4 9 ms 10 ms 10 ms 211.176.50.150
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 5 9 ms 8 ms 15 ms 211.44.125.54
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 6 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms 210.92.194.38
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 7 19 ms 18 ms 17 ms 211.233.95.18
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 8 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms 211.172.248.182
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> 9 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms 211.115.115.212
[21:12:03] <WhiteRain|오블> Trace complete.

[kennethtancy]

why no people says about their own hardware that might also cause lagness while gaming ?

almost everyone comp has different spec's while lotsa pple are using the same connection speed etc.

some pple with better spec's but same connection speed as other will say that their problem is not that big and vice versa.

sometimes, u can't look at a problem in only one perspective.

Well blackcube,

the reporter did not do all this without some help from us too....if you check my pc specs and mohawks pc specs next to our post you will see 2 things.

1 our hardware are nearly simmilar with minor diff that do not affect connection pings

2 both our hardware exceeds any FPS game resource commit memory required.

So lets assume that Starhub VP statement was part true..meaning that the game server we play on sucks.....mohawks is on a Pacnet 512 plan and i am on MOL6500.....on a local server based in singapore his pings are more consistant and latency is often half of mine. so thats how we can have grounds to complain...why do pacnet and singnet connections better than MOL when most aspects of hardware like pc,server etc are the same.

[LemonT]

Well blackcube,

the reporter did not do all this without some help from us too....if you check my pc specs and mohawks pc specs next to our post you will see 2 things.

1 our hardware are nearly simmilar with minor diff that do not affect connection pings

2 both our hardware exceeds any FPS game resource commit memory required.

So lets assume that Starhub VP statement was part true..meaning that the game server we play on sucks.....mohawks is on a Pacnet 512 plan and i am on MOL6500.....on a local server based in singapore his pings are more consistant and latency is often half of mine. so thats how we can have grounds to complain...why do pacnet and singnet connections better than MOL when most aspects of hardware like pc,server etc are the same.

Cable technology are more prone to latency spikes because of its 'shared' nature.

Case A - ADSL

In the day user surfs the web via the phone line into his hse, in the nite the phone line is still solely for his own usage. No congestion n no competition with other users from his block

Case B - Cable

In the day 10 people from his block surfs the web, the cable line from the cmts to the user hse is lightly utilized so all is well. At night, 100 people from his block gets online, cable line gets highly congested so latency spikes more often..

[MardiGras]

Cable technology are more prone to latency spikes because of its 'shared' nature.

Case A - ADSL

In the day user surfs the web via the phone line into his hse, in the nite the phone line is still solely for his own usage. No congestion n no competition with other users from his block

Case B - Cable

In the day 10 people from his block surfs the web, the cable line from the cmts to the user hse is lightly utilized so all is well. At night, 100 people from his block gets online, cable line gets highly congested so latency spikes more often..

Do we need to go thru the whole shared vs dedicated exercise again??? Common guys...give it a rest...If everything is SO Dedicated from SingNet...then why still got lag...if based on your statement that there is no competition and congestion from his block...then let me ask you next...where does this traffic go to? Will being dedicated help in solving any of their latency problems? Take it that I am a newbie and don't understand the whole internet thingy and pls educate me.

Mr Coward being the CTO of a "reputable" company, one would wonder what kind of data he has that iDA do not have...maybe he can share these information with them so that we can get to the bottom of the "bottleneck" scandal. If he just "say say" only so that ****ty Times got something to print, then maybe S***Hub should consider taking legal action for his "kong songness"...As the famous saying goes....Chui Kong Lam Pah Song...Mr CTO, pls back it up with relevant findings.....

[liangtam]

It IS important to note that the so-called dedicated thing is NOT true, but SingNet isn't precise either. A look down into detail will tell you that they claim dedicated from YOU to their equipment. Therefore, they're not lying practically speaking if you consider all of the marketing claim and the final one written somewhere between the lines.

There are also 3 factors to consider; the load at the CMTS/DSLAM which is directly link with the customer, the load at the ISP NOC as well as upstream/overseas link. What SingNet claim is only up to the DSLAM, because of the way Cable technology is designed, the CMTS are just like a NAT router fed with a fat pipe linking one side to the ISP NOC and the customer, halfway through with CMTS handling and acting as middleman.

So what? When the CMTS is overloaded/overbooked with too much customer and the equipment could not handle, then you know what happens. This don't apply with DSLAM; fixed number with fixed and adequate load. But when it comes to the ISP NOC side as well as communication with overseas, these are the other 2 part suceptible to issue, even though the way of design for xDSL was not plauged locally.

Anyway, it is of no wonder why the CTO of Juniper would say that, because company utilizes cable due to such reason. A fat pipe to serve the whole of neighbourhood, even overbooking, thus the MOL service used to be very competitive and cheap, which is directly a saving off using this method.

[LemonT]

Do we need to go thru the whole shared vs dedicated exercise again??? Common guys...give it a rest...If everything is SO Dedicated from SingNet...then why still got lag...if based on your statement that there is no competition and congestion from his block...then let me ask you next...where does this traffic go to? Will being dedicated help in solving any of their latency problems? Take it that I am a newbie and don't understand the whole internet thingy and pls educate me.

Mr Coward being the CTO of a "reputable" company, one would wonder what kind of data he has that iDA do not have...maybe he can share these information with them so that we can get to the bottom of the "bottleneck" scandal. If he just "say say" only so that ****ty Times got something to print, then maybe S***Hub should consider taking legal action for his "kong songness"...As the famous saying goes....Chui Kong Lam Pah Song...Mr CTO, pls back it up with relevant findings.....


The 'shared' and 'dedicated' comparison is just a layman's term I use. It's one of the most fundamental differences between Cable and ADSL also. Dedicated is only last hop from DSLAM to your home.

The shared technology has its flaw. Bigger bandwidth at the expense of higher latency and competition among users of the same cable. The quality of phone line will affect the bandwidth the user is getting for ADSL

Being dedicated for the last hop more or narrows down the troubleshooting by a hop.

If you want education you can always google.. :s13:

[CharmanderWong]

Question!

If the ping is allright (within 30ms) and theres no packet drops,
is there any other reasons for lagging?

I'm on MOL6.5k and i'm getting peoridical lag randomly on maplestory.
However it happens only at NIGHT.
Using direct connection, and a freshly and fully patched winxp (reformated 2 weeks ago)
And, it only happened after starhub mysteriously swaped my ip from 222.x.x.x to 58.182.x.x on monday.
Yishun area.

Any possible reasons?

[LemonT]

Question!

If the ping is allright (within 30ms) and theres no packet drops,
is there any other reasons for lagging?

I'm on MOL6.5k and i'm getting peoridical lag randomly on maplestory.
However it happens only at NIGHT.
Using direct connection, and a freshly and fully patched winxp (reformated 2 weeks ago)
And, it only happened after starhub mysteriously swaped my ip from 222.x.x.x to 58.182.x.x on monday.
Yishun area.

Any possible reasons?

possible reasons.

1) maple game server overloaded
2) your node is congested

you have traceroutes when u r using 222.x.x.x and 58.182.x.x?

[misato]

Webbyboy, I get a ping of 8 on a LAN, and there are only two computers. how can you get less than 5ms on a WAN, then?

they need to spend money on upgrading the network connections that lead out of the country to the rest of the world, not just the national network. that's why there's no way the government can directly fix this problem. the super-fast network they are proposing to build will be useless if we don't have bigger internet pipes between our national network and the rest of the internet.
something is wrong with your LAN. LOL.
Using wireless or wired 100mbps, i never get above 1ms for my windows PC. Correctly put, the actual time reported by my linux box is 0.1ms on LAN.

[chaicka]

The 'shared' and 'dedicated' comparison is just a layman's term I use. It's one of the most fundamental differences between Cable and ADSL also. Dedicated is only last hop from DSLAM to your home.

The shared technology has its flaw. Bigger bandwidth at the expense of higher latency and competition among users of the same cable. The quality of phone line will affect the bandwidth the user is getting for ADSL

Being dedicated for the last hop more or narrows down the troubleshooting by a hop.

If you want education you can always google.. :s13:

Juz to help LemonT illustrate the difference:

http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/08/5/cablevsadslx.png

Each computer icon represents per household, not per PC. Thus, each computer icon may represents multiple PCs, Laptops, Xboxes, etc which further share the per household "pipe" behind a NAT router (eg. Cable Modem<--->LinkSys WRT54G<--->Multiple Systems).

The number of household per CMTS is definitely more than those shown in the diagram. Per line card of CMTS may be supporting up to >100 households, depending on the number of households per block x (multiply by) the number of blocks per line card is supporting/looped.

In such a topology, latency can be induced by anywhere (any household) in that same loop. ARP storms in per loop will cause redundant traffic, and has impact on latency indirectly (even though it may be very marginal). Other factors such as a compromised system connected in that loop generating 'attack' traffics, also contribute to latency issues too.

Furthermore, a fellow forumer did shared screenshot on "ARP Storm" that happens on Cable Broadband, in another thread before.

[Forceware]

possible reasons.

1) maple game server overloaded
2) your node is congested

you have traceroutes when u r using 222.x.x.x and 58.182.x.x?
Sometimes when I called up and politely asked to speak to the technicians, told the technicians that there sure is something very wrong with the MOL.

Example,

While I'm still on MOL6500, I played a game called Rakion. During the time of MOL6500, 80% of the time I'm able to join other people game room and did not see other users latency reach 999ms else I will be auto kicked out of the game room.
After I upgraded to MOL Ultimate, the problem starts to come. Every game room I go to, I saw alot of users with 999ms which results in me cant play the game at all as I'm being kicked out of the room all the time. I proceed to test with my another connection which is on SNBB 512K. EVERY game room I joined, there is not even a single 999ms. Proceed to connect 1 computer with SNBB and MOL ultimate. Both uses a direct connection and the computer are mostly about the same specs. The difference is there. It's very big!

Next, I called in to speak to the technicians already.
Their very standard replies are " Well, there's no problems at all. I can't see any problems. " Keep explaining what the hell wrong's going on and he keep telling all the bulls and craps.
THEN, Dulan with his replies, I speak and raised my voice in a angry tone and he say, " Well, if you want, I can HELP YOU CHECK " <<< WTF IS THIS? Aint he who told me that he checked and there's no problem? ****tup dulan and shouted " You BETTER do something about it " And straight away hangs the phone.

Next day, the problems goes away. :s22:

[liangtam]

MapleSEA is hosted on Starhub/Equinix. Patch/download server on SingTel.
But I not using MOL play at night no problem, so .....

[jittery]

wait till the new ISP comes out, then starhub would do something liao..
they are really stubborn, SN drop prices so long ago and they still dun have reaction...

[nonamesg]

I like to share my trouble shooting experience with SH.

I am with MOL2000 for the last 3 to 4 years and a regular on-line CS gamer to 2 local base game server for as long as these period.

The high lantency issue started somewhere October/November 2005, which I thought could be temperory and will go away after SH optimise their network/traffic. On the same game server at the same time, SNBB and PNBB user are having no similar problem face by the SH user.

In January 2006, I decided it is enough and sent a feedback to SH complaint about the problem I face with CS and BF2. They promptly replied me and then go by the SOP, I did the test for majority part of the following:

"To test for the speed, you may try using a direct Ethernet connection from your cable modem to your computer (bypass any routers or hubs) and try the following:


Download test

1. Please visit http://utilities.starhub.com.
2. Click on Continue.
3. Click on Bandwidth Meter.
4. Scroll down to proceed with the bandwidth test.
5. Click on Start.
6. When the bandwidth test is complete, highlight the results and press Ctrl-C to copy it. Include the results in your reply to our email by pressing Ctrl-V to paste into the email.

Ping

1. Please visit http://utilities.starhub.com.
2. Click on Continue.
3. Click on Ping.
4. Scroll down to the to proceed with obtaining ping statistic result.
5. Key in the IP address or host name of the server you wish to ping in the text box.
6. Click on Start.
7. When the ping statistic result is complete, highlight the results and press Ctrl-C to copy it. Include the results in your reply to our email by pressing Ctrl-V to paste into the email.

Traceroute

1. Please visit http://utilities.starhub.com.
2. Click on Continue.
3. Click on Traceroute.
4. Scroll down to proceed with obtaining traceroute result.
5. Key in the IP address or host name of the server you wish to traceroute to in the text box.
6. Click on Start.
7. When the traceroute result is complete, highlight the results and press Ctrl-C to copy it. Include the results in your reply to our email by pressing Ctrl-V to paste into the email.

Adapter Physical address and renewal of IP address

1. Please visit http://utilities.starhub.com.
2. Click on Continue.
3. Click on IPconfig.
4. Scroll down to proceed with obtaining adapter physical address and renewal of IP address.
5. Click on Start.
6. Click on Release & Renew IP.
7. When renewal of IP address is complete, highlight the results and press Ctrl-C to copy it. Include the results in your reply to our email by pressing Ctrl-V to paste into the email.

"

I took the time throughout the 2nd half of January and early February to clean-up computer software, optimise windows and re-install the CS and BF2. Some screenshots were posted to SH to help explain the situtation, but they do not seem to understand what is "high latency" that affects the on-line gaming experience.

SH subsequently assigned a network engineer to assist on my test and check, during this period I got my hand on a new set of computer with fresh OS installation, did the direct to modem, via router and others. They even put up MOL6500 for me to trail a few days, which the latency gets better.

However, during these test of MOL2000 to MOL6500 and back to MOL2000; switching to and back between my original comp and the new comp, my connection suddenly improved to the level before all this issue started.

I am dumbfounded.

In the last email which I wrote back to SH.

"... And during the course of these testing, I had set up a equally capable system with fresh installed WinXP updated with SP2 + more updates for the testing. The results tells that the problem wasn't on my house's TV point, cabling, router's condition and functionality nor the computer system. It is very obvious that it was either Starhub's hardware problem or my area (Choa Chuk Kang near Yew Tee MRT) was excessively congested or probably my MOL2000 was not worth it.

With the current situation that the online gaming experience has greatly improved, I hope such situation would symbolise my past 4 months of suffering due to the poor/problematic connection should come to an end. And what matter most, such minimum expected service level provide by Starhub should continue and be consistent.

The reason why I only put up with a 1 year contract is in case the service provide by ISP is under performing, then I would be easiler to part with. My current contract will run out around April/May this year and it is just another 3 months for me to decide whether I would continue with Starhub. The key factor which I will be looking at will be the service level and price competitiveness. "

I am very sure there is a large majority of on-line gamer whom have not go through the extend I have taken and either they suffer silently, waiting for their contract to end or already switched ISP.

When reading through this ST report, I just laugh at how SH could have put up such a reply "few and far between" and put the blame on the game server. Hmm ... A thumb down for the ignorant attitude.

[Sp1der]

April 7, 2006
Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds

Firm denies this and suggests they switch to more costly plan

By Chua Hian Hou
GAMERS are complaining that sluggish StarHub broadband speeds are turning fleet-footed virtual commandos into zombie-like cannon fodder.

In online shooting games like CounterStrike and Battlefield2, players win by shooting other players while avoiding their return fire. All this action is tracked by a central game server, which receives and sends data from a gamer's computer. Delays in the transmission of this data - or 'lag' in Internet parlance - curbs a player's ability to win.

Complaints about Singapore's largest broadband Internet service provider (ISP), which serves 51 per cent of residential broadband subscribers, have surfaced at popular online hangouts like GameAxis and sgForums, and in interviews with gamers.

The Straits Times found significantly fewer complaints about SingNet, and none about Pacific Internet on these sites.

At GameAxis, a thread sarcastically titled 'StarHub is good for your gaming experience' has ballooned to 20 pages, filled with complaints about 'LagOnline' - a play on the name of StarHub's broadband service, MaxOnline.

Rival SingNet had previously highlighted this thread on its website.

One unhappy gamer is polytechnic student Eugene Sng, 20, who is upset that 'the hobby I love has become so frustrating.'

The MaxOnline 6500 subscriber who pays 'about $70' a month said he did not have lag problems when he used SingNet's broadband service previously.

'I've made 15 complaints to StarHub in the past four months, and each time they said they will do something about it. But there has been no improvement, and I can't do anything except 'tong' (Hokkien slang for suffer stoically) until my contract is up in five months.'

StarHub senior vice-president for IP services Thomas Ee dismissed complaints like Mr Sng's as 'few and far between', adding that 'speed can be subjective and we do not agree our connection is slower'.

The problem, he said, is likely to be the game server's inability to cope with the game's demands. Most game servers are run by individuals or gaming industry organisations, not by ISPs like StarHub.

No way, said commercial pilot and gamer Kenneth Tan, 34, who also heard this reply when he complained. 'How can this be true when SingNet or PacNet users don't face problems with the game server?' countered the MaxOnline 6500 user, who declined to take up StarHub's suggested solution to his woes: switching to a more expensive plan.

An expert familiar with Internet networking technology, Juniper Networks chief technology officer for Asia Pacific Andrew Coward, said StarHub's problem is network congestion, a common occurrence when there is insufficient bandwidth or hardware to cope with demand.

When too many users try to send data simultaneously in a congested network, some data will be delayed or even dropped, much like the problem gamers face.

'Congestion won't affect activities like surfing the Internet or movie downloads, but it is a problem for lag-sensitive activities like gaming,' he said.

This is borne out by the many subscribers drawn by StarHub's fast download speeds. Even as the gamers grouse, some admit they will stick with StarHub for its fantastic movie, music and software download capabilities.

What Mr Coward describes is the situation gamers face with StarHub, said Mr Reuben Conceicao, manager of World Cyber Games (WCG) Singapore CounterStrike champion Team Titans.

'The gaming community's issue with StarHub is that its connection speeds lack reliability and consistency, not the amount of data a StarHub user can download.'

The Titans are sponsored by SingNet, which also sponsors about 20 other WCG winners.

Mr Coward believes a solution is for StarHub to buy more hardware and provide more bandwidth, rather than for gamers to upgrade to one of its faster, more expensive plans.

Since upgrades cost money, this will happen only when the ISP feels compelled to do so - for example, if it starts losing large numbers of subscribers.
:s8:


only the last paragraph catch my attention :s13:

maybe the writer giving us some tips inbetween paragraph =:p

[alex22]

If they throw more money at the problem, it will probably go away.

Starhub seems more content to just hook people in with their "freebies" and then just heck care. Their shareholders are more important. Screw the consumers. Maximize their quad-services (internet, cable tv, mobile phone and telephone) and then tie in the consumers. Their marketing strategy is more like that.

You you got that right.
if you see their AR05 recently delivered to shareholders..
u will notice that arpu for residential has not increased by as large a ratio as compared to the take up rate and upgrade...

basically they just throw freebies and all the cheap/green consumers auto chiong until make noise... lol who's to blame? it takes 2 hands to clap..

tie with contract, hard to make it worth expending capex on residential data services.
now, harvest the business market instead. since home users are all tie down liao, safely in pocket liao...

hubbing strategy is good ideology only i think.

who bought SHC at 90cents??? lol they are smiling like me

[almeric]

Well since the elections are coming, probably, there might be a work-around for the current situation. But lets not get our hopes too high, because after the election it will be the same old story again.

world cup in 2010 or world cup in 3010 ?

[alex22]

only the last paragraph catch my attention :s13:

maybe the writer giving us some tips inbetween paragraph =:p
you can terminate after 24months please lol
wahahahahahaha

linagtam and chaicka is correct about overloading the individual area node especially if there are new sign up spike of molu and 6k in a single area. their link from you is "dedicated" but no mention of overloading.

it is a good marketing play on word and term to make it palatable to layman to avoid the wuestion on their topology and maybe higher node capacity to support more thruput per user and number of concurrent user.

[alex22]

Well since the elections are coming, probably, there might be a work-around for the current situation. But lets not get our hopes too high, because after the election it will be the same old story again.

world cup in 2010 or world cup in 3010 ?
i more interested in how they will play with my cpf this wonderful govt of ours...

[berlo84]

i think this is complete bs.
anybody wanna try out MY connection? i have wifi and you can bring your laptop and test my connection if you wanna... i can allow you to test even stuff like BT and webhosting services even... i've been playing games on mol without problems at all... and yes i play BF2 quite alot too... can check up my rank if you will... i've unlocked ALL the guns already

the problem with people is that they don't know how to find the right servers... usually servers based in thailand, japan and korea are ok, with japanese servers giving the best connections... should you connect to a server based in europe, australia or america, you'll surely experience lag... so simply avoid connecting to such servers

i was playing cs when i switched from singnet to mol, with singnet i used to have 100+ pings... with MOL my average pings were 40 - 100.. haven't tested CS since the awp changed... and if you wanna you can go check up my CS history too... i'm no lightweight at the game
it is u again!

i play BF2 using local PacNet server... but it is lag like siao!!!!!!!!

average 150 and above even get kick from from the server!

[LemonT]

it is u again!

i play BF2 using local PacNet server... but it is lag like siao!!!!!!!!

average 150 and above even get kick from from the server!

maybe he plays game from SH datacenter :s13:

[liangtam]

I play games hosted on Starhub/Equinix, no problem.

[whanafi]

I can't believe people are taken in by thinking speed (capacity) has anything to do with latency (lag). The answer from the SH guy is so ignorant it is scary - or very cynical. I wrote a letter to the Straits Times and it will be interesting to see if they print it. So far they have never printed anything that directly criticizes SingTel or StarHub.

I don't play games, and my connection on MOL 2500 has become useless. Looking at a PingPlotter graph for a LOCAL trace to Starhub's own domain, I am seeing lag exceeding 600ms. The standard from the IDA which the ISP's all fought to try and stop calls for maximum of 80msecs local and 300msecs to the international gateway. Those are already bad numbers, but SH is failing even that.

Article at http://whanafi.blogspot.com/2006/04/starhub-gets-dissed-in-straits-times.html

[liangtam]

The press also gets it wrongly that more speed means better latency. If you write to them and diss the press, they probably won't publicise your letter as well.

[rainboiboi]

The standard from the IDA which the ISP's all fought to try and stop calls for maximum of 80msecs local and 300msecs to the international gateway.

300ms for international is impossible now.
Even pinging yahoo international is a whole lot more than 300ms...

[Fatfool]

300ms for international is impossible now.
Even pinging yahoo international is a whole lot more than 300ms...
I just tried pinging yahoo international with my pacnet 1500k account.

minimum 273ms, max 275ms, average 274ms. still within 300ms. but 274ms isn't going to cut it for FPS games. yahoo isn't a game server so nvm.

[rainboiboi]

I just tried pinging yahoo international with my pacnet 1500k account.

minimum 273ms, max 275ms, average 274ms. still within 300ms. but 274ms isn't going to cut it for FPS games. yahoo isn't a game server so nvm.

Hmm, thats the server of a listed company.
Anyway 274ms isnt that great either.
Not that Im picky
How to compare with those tiny private server we have for gaming?

I'll show you an example of a site which has more than 300ms.

Pinging www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233] with 32 bytes of data:


Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=307ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=301ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=286ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=299ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=295ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=288ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=303ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=297ms TTL=48
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=297ms TTL=48


Ping statistics for 210.6.90.233:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 286ms, Maximum = 307ms, Average = 301ms

Believe it or not, its up to you.
You might even want to try during peak hour.
Its a HK site anyway.

EDIT:
Pinging youtube.com [72.3.222.114] with 32 bytes of data:


Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=293ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=309ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=293ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=292ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=329ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=327ms TTL=108
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=290ms TTL=108


Ping statistics for 72.3.222.114:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 290ms, Maximum = 329ms, Average = 300ms

Not that great too..

[korry]

i think this is complete bs.
anybody wanna try out MY connection? i have wifi and you can bring your laptop and test my connection if you wanna... i can allow you to test even stuff like BT and webhosting services even... i've been playing games on mol without problems at all... and yes i play BF2 quite alot too... can check up my rank if you will... i've unlocked ALL the guns already

the problem with people is that they don't know how to find the right servers... usually servers based in thailand, japan and korea are ok, with japanese servers giving the best connections... should you connect to a server based in europe, australia or america, you'll surely experience lag... so simply avoid connecting to such servers

i was playing cs when i switched from singnet to mol, with singnet i used to have 100+ pings... with MOL my average pings were 40 - 100.. haven't tested CS since the awp changed... and if you wanna you can go check up my CS history too... i'm no lightweight at the game

40 to 100 ping? Thats horrendous. I expect 9 to 20 ping max. CS average download is 14 k/s and upload is 6 k/s. In Europe, the average domestic ping (within a country) is between 5 and 15. Get it right before commenting.

[Webbyboy]

Hmm, thats the server of a listed company.
Anyway 274ms isnt that great either.
Not that Im picky
How to compare with those tiny private server we have for gaming?

I'll show you an example of a site which has more than 300ms.



Believe it or not, its up to you.
You might even want to try during peak hour.
Its a HK site anyway.

EDIT:


Not that great too..


You got to blame on bad routing, sprintlink routing has never been good, guess what, from starhub it goes to HK and goes to TOKYO and goes to US and goes back to HK. -_- :s22:

[LemonT]

300ms for international is impossible now.
Even pinging yahoo international is a whole lot more than 300ms...


it's the 1st hop out of SG tat has to be <300ms. Not the final destination.

[SerSiTiv]

Look at IT shows and road shows there are so many people hopping onto the Broadband band wagon, But it seems that the sales department is doing the work and the technical side is busy answering complaints. But after 6 years with MaxOnline, I should say that the experience was not as fantastic as when I was on Magix as least not for now. I think my Maxonline 1500 is even faster then my Maxonline 2000 :(

[Forceware]

Look at IT shows and road shows there are so many people hopping onto the Broadband band wagon, But it seems that the sales department is doing the work and the technical side is busy answering complaints. But after 6 years with MaxOnline, I should say that the experience was not as fantastic as when I was on Magix as least not for now. I think my Maxonline 1500 is even faster then my Maxonline 2000 :(
How can you compare Cable with Magix? :s22: :s22:

[chaicka]

300ms for international is impossible now.
Even pinging yahoo international is a whole lot more than 300ms...
The QoS is stated as 300ms to overseas POP only.

Example:


Tracing route to www.yahoo.akadns.net [68.142.197.73]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 93 ms 101 ms 73 ms xxxxx.xxx.xxx [192.168.xxx.xxx]
2 9 ms 12 ms 9 ms ad202.166.xxx.xxx.magix.com.sg [202.166.xxx.xxx]
3 9 ms 12 ms 12 ms ge-7-0-3-20.guinness.singnet.com.sg [202.166.127.121]
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms ge-0-1-0-3.kickapoo.singnet.com.sg [202.166.126.37]
5 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 203.208.182.77
6 191 ms 193 ms 193 ms so-0-1-0.plapx-cr2.ix.singtel.com [203.208.182.150]
7 193 ms 191 ms 191 ms 203.208.173.66
8 190 ms 188 ms 188 ms 203.208.168.246
9 284 ms 283 ms 288 ms so-1-0-0.pat1.dax.yahoo.com [216.115.101.133]
10 272 ms 284 ms 284 ms UNKNOWN-216-115-104-109.yahoo.com [216.115.104.109]
11 284 ms 272 ms 272 ms ten-9-1.bas2.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.193.31]
12 273 ms 284 ms 283 ms p10.www.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.197.73]

Trace complete.


The POP here is basically at hop 7 or 8, and it's within the IDA BB QoS of 300ms to overseas POP.

[chaicka]

Extracted IDA Broadband QoS:

The round trip delay for traffic in the international portion of the broadband network from the IX to the first point of presence (POP) in the US should be less than 300 msec for 95% of the time during peak hours.

[liangtam]

xx
Pinging www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=49
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=49
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=45ms TTL=49
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 210.6.90.233:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 45ms, Average = 44ms

Pinging 72.3.222.114 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=110
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=110
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=227ms TTL=110
Reply from 72.3.222.114: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=110

Ping statistics for 72.3.222.114:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 227ms, Maximum = 228ms, Average = 227ms

[rainboiboi]

[QUOTE=liangtam]Pinging www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=49
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=49
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=45ms TTL=49
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 210.6.90.233:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 45ms, Average = 44ms


o.O 44ms only?

EDIT:
With BT
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/3049/untitled0fw.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled0fw.jpg)

Without BT
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2382/untitled18df.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled18df.jpg)

Just in case you thought I might be cheating, above are the proves...

[Fatfool]

Hmm, thats the server of a listed company.
Anyway 274ms isnt that great either.
Not that Im picky
How to compare with those tiny private server we have for gaming?

I'll show you an example of a site which has more than 300ms.



Believe it or not, its up to you.
You might even want to try during peak hour.
Its a HK site anyway.

EDIT:


Not that great too..
UH??! i get 80-89ms for www.failforum.net 1.30pm currently. seems a very big drop despite the differnce in the time you and I pinged.

[richneo]

UH??! i get 80-89ms for www.failforum.net 1.30pm currently. seems a very big drop despite the differnce in the time you and I pinged.
this is my ping result

C:\Documents and Settings\xxxx>ping www.failforum.net

Pinging www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=298ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=317ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=321ms TTL=51

Ping statistics for 210.6.90.233:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 298ms, Maximum = 378ms, Average = 328ms

[Fatfool]

this is my ping result

C:\Documents and Settings\xxxx>ping www.failforum.net

Pinging www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=298ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=317ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=321ms TTL=51

Ping statistics for 210.6.90.233:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 298ms, Maximum = 378ms, Average = 328ms


hmm.... MOL?

http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/13/failforum.jpg

personally, i find my area has sh!itty latency. compared to my ex classmate down the road who has like 1/2 or 1/3 of my latency to the Wolfenstein ET servers. (he's using pacnnet as well)

[richneo]

hmm.... MOL?



personally, i find my area has sh!itty latency. compared to my ex classmate down the road who has like 1/2 or 1/3 of my latency to the Wolfenstein ET servers. (he's using pacnnet as well)
yar lor i using mol6500

i dun play games.. so lag or dun lag doesnt affect me... i oni find hwz laggy and often get server busy notice thats all.

my downloads were very acceptable.

[Fatfool]

yar lor i using mol6500

i dun play games.. so lag or dun lag doesnt affect me... i oni find hwz laggy and often get server busy notice thats all.

my downloads were very acceptable.
lol. no wonder MOL people complain of lag.

edit: thanks

[liangtam]

I not lying either!
http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/14/ping.jpg
But I using PacNet, not MOL. :D

[Fatfool]

I not lying either!
http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/14/ping.jpg
But I using PacNet, not MOL. :D
your ping is half of mine :(

i always get higher latency. most people get around your ping as well right?

[liangtam]

Show us your traceroute?(Command: tracert)

[Fatfool]

Show us your traceroute?(Command: tracert)

here it is

http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/15/traceroute_failforum_copy1.jpg

[richneo]

Show us your traceroute?(Command: tracert)
C:\>ping www.failforum.net

Pinging www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=243ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=233ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=256ms TTL=51
Reply from 210.6.90.233: bytes=32 time=232ms TTL=51

Ping statistics for 210.6.90.233:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 232ms, Maximum = 256ms, Average = 241ms

C:\>tracert www.failforum.net

Tracing route to www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 17 ms 21 ms 31 ms 10.32.128.1
3 16 ms 10 ms 12 ms 172.20.32.209
4 12 ms 24 ms 18 ms 172.26.31.1
5 44 ms 25 ms 26 ms 172.20.8.141
6 99 ms 76 ms 63 ms 203.116.6.57
7 52 ms 13 ms 19 ms pc1-an-uts-int03.starhub.net.sg [203.118.3.147]
8 272 ms 272 ms 278 ms 203.222.160.165
9 237 ms 236 ms 259 ms sl-bb21-hk-2-2.sprintlink.net [203.222.38.51]
10 366 ms 371 ms 240 ms sl-bb21-tok-15-1.sprintlink.net [203.222.33.7]
11 236 ms 231 ms 232 ms sl-bb21-stk-5-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.179]
12 235 ms 224 ms 225 ms sl-gw28-stk-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.4.110]
13 245 ms 237 ms 260 ms sl-citytel-2-0.sprintlink.net [144.228.107.198]
14 255 ms 311 ms 290 ms 61.244.232.17
15 282 ms 272 ms 258 ms 61.244.232.1
16 282 ms 236 ms 256 ms 061238224142.ctinets.com [61.238.224.142]
17 234 ms 252 ms 245 ms 061238229118.ctinets.com [61.238.229.118]
18 240 ms 251 ms 325 ms 059148185062.ctinets.com [59.148.185.62]
19 233 ms 257 ms 249 ms 210006090233.ctinets.com [210.6.90.233]

Trace complete.

[richneo]

[QUOTE=Fatfool]here it is
u tracert to the wrong site.

there is a typo in the url.

[chaicka]

Tracert from Magix...:D


Tracing route to www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 85 ms 99 ms 99 ms xxxxx.xxx.xxx [192.168.xxx.xxx]
2 65 ms 83 ms 49 ms ad202.166.xxx.xxx.magix.com.sg [202.166.xxx.xxx]
3 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms ge-7-0-3-20.guinness.singnet.com.sg [202.166.127.121]
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms ge-0-1-0-3.kickapoo.singnet.com.sg [202.166.126.37]
5 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms 203.208.145.125
6 41 ms 41 ms 43 ms so-1-0-1.hkgst-cr2.ix.singtel.com [203.208.172.34]
7 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms p0-0-0.hkgst-cr1.ix.singtel.com [203.208.150.66]
8 42 ms 45 ms 42 ms 202.83.208.50
9 48 ms 47 ms 48 ms 202.83.192.106
10 43 ms 43 ms 43 ms 61.244.232.166
11 43 ms 43 ms 44 ms 61.244.232.1
12 44 ms 44 ms 43 ms 061238224142.ctinets.com [61.238.224.142]
13 44 ms 43 ms 43 ms 061238229118.ctinets.com [61.238.229.118]
14 43 ms 44 ms 44 ms 059148185062.ctinets.com [59.148.185.62]
15 45 ms 43 ms 46 ms 210006090233.ctinets.com [210.6.90.233]

Trace complete.

[Fatfool]

u tracert to the wrong site.

there is a typo in the url.
OOPS SH!T!!!

ok heres the corrected one:

http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/15/traceroute_failforum_copy1.jpg

(btw need to censor anything?)

[rainboiboi]

This time is worse...
Look:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3904/untitled33hp.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled33hp.jpg)

No BT or other p2p programs, only msn...

[richneo]

OOPS SH!T!!!

ok heres the corrected one:

http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/15/traceroute_failforum_copy1.jpg

(btw need to censor anything?)
lol bro, i always respect ur privacy

[Fatfool]

lol bro, i always respect ur privacy
paiseh lol. i always forget to censor certain stuff out. Its been the upteenth time this has happened and i've had to re upload the corrected pic lol. think next time this sort of thing should use photobucket. can change the image when needed lol.

[liangtam]

Here is my trace. No censoring is done.
http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/16/trace.jpg

You first hop already high pings already. It can mean a few things, like equipment at your or their side is having issue.

[confused]

Tracert from Magix...:D


Tracing route to www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 85 ms 99 ms 99 ms xxxxx.xxx.xxx [192.168.xxx.xxx]
2 65 ms 83 ms 49 ms ad202.166.xxx.xxx.magix.com.sg [202.166.xxx.xxx]
3 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms ge-7-0-3-20.guinness.singnet.com.sg [202.166.127.121]
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms ge-0-1-0-3.kickapoo.singnet.com.sg [202.166.126.37]
5 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms 203.208.145.125
6 41 ms 41 ms 43 ms so-1-0-1.hkgst-cr2.ix.singtel.com [203.208.172.34]
7 42 ms 42 ms 42 ms p0-0-0.hkgst-cr1.ix.singtel.com [203.208.150.66]
8 42 ms 45 ms 42 ms 202.83.208.50
9 48 ms 47 ms 48 ms 202.83.192.106
10 43 ms 43 ms 43 ms 61.244.232.166
11 43 ms 43 ms 44 ms 61.244.232.1
12 44 ms 44 ms 43 ms 061238224142.ctinets.com [61.238.224.142]
13 44 ms 43 ms 43 ms 061238229118.ctinets.com [61.238.229.118]
14 43 ms 44 ms 44 ms 059148185062.ctinets.com [59.148.185.62]
15 45 ms 43 ms 46 ms 210006090233.ctinets.com [210.6.90.233]

Trace complete.


Mine has the same ms and hops as well. For Singnet 10mbps. Same as Magix. haha.
:s13: 33

[Fatfool]

Here is my trace. No censoring is done.
http://www.photovideoi.com/share/upload/2006/04/09/16/trace.jpg

You first hop already high pings already. It can mean a few things, like equipment at your or their side is having issue.
oh. which equipment could have caused the problem on my side?

[Lafiel]

Spikehub Lagonline 6500
Average Transfer Rate: 3.1 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.52 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 2.92 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.37 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 2.9 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 2.78 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.22 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 2.3 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.58 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 4.23 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.9 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 4.59 Mbps

Pinging www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109] with 32 bytes of data:


Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=245


Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=426ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=245

Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=88ms TTL=245


Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=42ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=132ms TTL=245


Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=307ms TTL=245



Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=335ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=245
Reply from 203.116.254.109: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=245

[Lafiel]

Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 83 ms 22 ms 27 ms 10.25.0.1
2 53 ms 16 ms 26 ms 172.20.25.65
3 24 ms 53 ms 78 ms 172.26.25.1
4 23 ms 42 ms 23 ms 172.20.8.45
5 49 ms 26 ms 34 ms 203.116.7.13
6 48 ms 31 ms 53 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 32 ms 14 ms 18 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 21 ms 38 ms 18 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
9 44 ms 23 ms 63 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 28 ms 29 ms 18 ms 203.118.2.19
11 14 ms 15 ms 116 ms 203.116.254.109


1 60 ms 140 ms 29 ms 10.25.0.1
2 68 ms 26 ms 83 ms 172.20.25.65
3 27 ms 43 ms 190 ms 172.26.25.1
4 24 ms 32 ms 30 ms 172.20.8.45
5 29 ms 36 ms 110 ms 203.116.7.13
6 28 ms 17 ms 46 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 23 ms 22 ms 47 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 548 ms 26 ms 96 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
9 27 ms 13 ms 116 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 27 ms 102 ms 40 ms 203.118.2.19
11 * 316 ms 19 ms 203.116.254.109



1 27 ms 95 ms 15 ms 10.25.0.1
2 24 ms 25 ms 38 ms 172.20.25.65
3 * 108 ms 65 ms 172.26.25.1
4 22 ms 14 ms 19 ms 172.20.8.45
5 25 ms 31 ms 69 ms 203.116.7.13
6 61 ms 44 ms 23 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 40 ms 50 ms 61 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 257 ms 77 ms 59 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
9 23 ms 57 ms 39 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 23 ms 34 ms 33 ms 203.118.2.19
11 63 ms 63 ms 64 ms 203.116.254.109

[Game90]

MOL 6500

Tracing route to www.failforum.net [210.6.90.233]
over a maximum of 30 hops:


1 64 ms 16 ms 10 ms 10.32.0.1
2 54 ms 50 ms 10 ms 172.20.32.193
3 37 ms 14 ms 12 ms 172.26.32.1
4 25 ms 79 ms 96 ms 172.20.8.145
5 38 ms 34 ms 46 ms 203.116.6.57
6 28 ms 25 ms 18 ms pc2-an-uts-int03.starhub.net.sg [203.118.3.211]
7 67 ms 66 ms 78 ms 203.222.160.165
8 67 ms 71 ms 64 ms 203.222.38.41
9 122 ms 98 ms 114 ms sl-bb20-tok-13-0.sprintlink.net [203.222.33.7]
10 254 ms 280 ms 248 ms sl-bb21-stk-5-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.191]
11 229 ms 242 ms 234 ms sl-gw28-stk-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.4.110]
12 * 290 ms * sl-citytel-2-0.sprintlink.net [144.228.107.198]
13 373 ms * 322 ms 61.244.232.17
14 359 ms 310 ms * 61.244.232.1
15 348 ms 352 ms * 061238224142.ctinets.com [61.238.224.142]
16 330 ms 292 ms 301 ms 061238229118.ctinets.com [61.238.229.118]
17 * 287 ms * 059148185062.ctinets.com [59.148.185.62]
18 306 ms 308 ms 322 ms 210006090233.ctinets.com [210.6.90.233]


Trace complete.

Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:


1 144 ms 138 ms 127 ms 10.32.0.1
2 133 ms 63 ms 45 ms 172.20.32.193
3 40 ms 26 ms 24 ms 172.26.32.1
4 30 ms 42 ms 49 ms 172.20.8.49
5 28 ms 27 ms 22 ms 203.116.7.13
6 22 ms 22 ms 39 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 44 ms 66 ms 30 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 63 ms 15 ms 35 ms ge3-1-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.3.6]
9 111 ms 141 ms 62 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 74 ms 47 ms 32 ms ge3-14-dstl01.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.18]
11 12 ms 30 ms 18 ms 203.116.254.109


Trace complete.

Connecting to Server ...
Logging on to Server ...
Starting 1st download
Starting 2nd download
Download Successful !!


Download Stats:

Transfer Time: 13313 milliseconds
Total File Size: 6142976 bytes

Average Transfer Rate: 3.52 Mbps

Connecting to Server ...
Logging on to Server ...
Starting 1st download
Starting 2nd download
Download Successful !!


Download Stats:

Transfer Time: 14609 milliseconds
Total File Size: 6142976 bytes

Average Transfer Rate: 3.21 Mbps

[Webbyboy]

as MENTIONED, route to failforum.net is BAD, ok?

[Forceware]

Can anyone tell me if there's anything wrong in this tracert?

Tracing route to rakion.softnyx.net [61.74.68.182]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 8 ms 15 ms 10.166.0.1
3 34 ms 20 ms 10 ms 172.20.32.193
4 24 ms 14 ms 23 ms 172.26.32.1
5 33 ms 8 ms 18 ms 172.20.8.129
6 28 ms 12 ms 26 ms 203.116.5.97
7 25 ms 11 ms 11 ms 203.118.3.224
8 119 ms 100 ms 99 ms 203.234.255.69
9 118 ms 107 ms 96 ms 218.145.63.79
10 146 ms 104 ms 108 ms 220.73.153.77
11 363 ms 347 ms 356 ms 218.145.44.230
12 108 ms 106 ms 113 ms 211.63.213.106
13 132 ms 105 ms 98 ms 218.145.69.62
14 * * * Request timed out.

I tried to play Rakion but no matter what, every game room I go too I got 999ms and auto kicked out.
Switched to SNBB 512K and the ms not even exceed 50ms.
Nowadays after I upgrade to MOL Ultimate, all this funny shyt happens. If Starhub gonna say that users should upgrade to a much higher plan again, screw them. I'm already on Ultimate. ZZZzzz...

[rainboiboi]

Can anyone tell me if there's anything wrong in this tracert?

Tracing route to rakion.softnyx.net [61.74.68.182]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

I tried to play Rakion but no matter what, every game room I go too I got 999ms and auto kicked out.
Switched to SNBB 512K and the ms not even exceed 50ms.
Nowadays after I upgrade to MOL Ultimate, all this funny shyt happens. If Starhub gonna say that users should upgrade to a much higher plan again, screw them. I'm already on Ultimate. ZZZzzz...

Erm, the lag you have might not come from the sever "rakion.softnyx.net"
The site is just for info and games might not be hosted on the servers.
And they should not host sites plus games on the SAME server...

N...

Dont worry, welcome to laghub online....

My 100 post...Hehe...

[Forceware]

Erm, the lag you have might not come from the sever "rakion.softnyx.net"
The site is just for info and games might not be hosted on the servers.
And they should not host sites plus games on the SAME server...

N...

Dont worry, welcome to laghub online....

My 100 post...Hehe...

Tracing route to 61.74.68.178 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms 12 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 26 ms 10 ms 15 ms 10.166.0.1
3 12 ms 19 ms 14 ms 172.20.32.193
4 16 ms 33 ms 15 ms 172.26.32.1
5 26 ms 20 ms 13 ms 172.20.8.129
6 14 ms 12 ms 13 ms 203.116.5.97
7 25 ms 41 ms 19 ms 203.118.3.224
8 309 ms 331 ms 317 ms 203.234.255.69
9 315 ms 335 ms 323 ms 218.145.63.70
10 337 ms 346 ms 354 ms 220.73.152.78
11 329 ms 357 ms 331 ms 218.145.44.218
12 283 ms 289 ms 296 ms 211.63.213.106
13 355 ms 332 ms 330 ms 218.145.69.62
14 * * *

:s8: :s8:

[Lafiel]

Average Transfer Rate: 3.88 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.62 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 4.32 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.98 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.66 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 3.92 Mbps
Average Transfer Rate: 4.42 Mbps

[Lafiel]

Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:


1 74 ms 16 ms 16 ms 10.25.0.1
2 21 ms 42 ms 19 ms 172.20.25.65
3 22 ms 18 ms 48 ms 172.26.25.1
4 36 ms 70 ms 33 ms 172.20.8.45
5 33 ms 22 ms 21 ms 203.116.7.13
6 77 ms 73 ms 24 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 55 ms 73 ms 24 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 24 ms 25 ms 40 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
9 38 ms 29 ms 65 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 25 ms 17 ms 31 ms 203.118.2.19
11 93 ms 63 ms 36 ms 203.116.254.109


Trace complete.


Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:


1 131 ms 18 ms 75 ms 10.25.0.1
2 58 ms 64 ms 36 ms 172.20.25.65
3 24 ms 125 ms 34 ms 172.26.25.1
4 33 ms 17 ms 87 ms 172.20.8.45
5 27 ms 21 ms 34 ms 203.116.7.13
6 40 ms 132 ms 21 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 51 ms 54 ms 44 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 45 ms 26 ms 23 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
9 73 ms 39 ms 76 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 327 ms 20 ms 219 ms 203.118.2.19
11 52 ms 21 ms 32 ms 203.116.254.109


Trace complete.


Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:


1 19 ms 52 ms 50 ms 10.25.0.1
2 43 ms 29 ms 25 ms 172.20.25.65
3 93 ms 13 ms 62 ms 172.26.25.1
4 58 ms 91 ms 23 ms 172.20.8.45
5 107 ms 36 ms 45 ms 203.116.7.13
6 37 ms 82 ms 48 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.5.3]
7 24 ms 27 ms 91 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.226]
8 69 ms 35 ms 16 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
9 42 ms 15 ms 52 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
10 58 ms 134 ms 13 ms 203.118.2.19
11 19 ms 55 ms 19 ms 203.116.254.109


Trace complete.

[weihong]

Tracing route to www.starhub.com [203.116.254.109]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.10.1
2 18 ms 28 ms 24 ms 10.25.0.1
3 65 ms 70 ms 18 ms 172.20.25.65
4 17 ms 152 ms 114 ms 172.26.25.1
5 35 ms 30 ms 69 ms 172.20.8.45
6 33 ms 23 ms 139 ms 203.116.7.13
7 21 ms 15 ms 30 ms vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm1.starhub.net.sg [203.1
18.5.2]
8 33 ms 30 ms 38 ms vlan915-cat6k-ts1-r1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.2
26]
9 101 ms 158 ms 108 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
10 47 ms 38 ms 16 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
11 79 ms 27 ms 18 ms ge3-15-dstl02.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.19]
12 18 ms 23 ms 25 ms 203.116.254.109

Trace complete.

[jq75]

April 11, 2006
MaxOnline well-suited to online gaming
THE article, 'Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds' (ST, April 7), does not give a fair representation of online gaming over StarHub's MaxOnline service.

Gaming lag is an issue that all Internet Service Providers (ISPs) around the world face, from time to time. This is because the Internet is a large and ungoverned global network, with none of its end-to-end connectivity being operated by any single ISP or its upstream providers.

ISPs are typically connected to a small subset of upstream providers as it would not be possible to connect to all upstream providers around the world. Consequently, the end-user's access experience with one ISP may differ from another as the network of upstream providers for every ISP may be different. Hence, if there are congested links between upstream providers that are affecting the end-user's access speed, there is little that his ISP can do directly, except to have more than one upstream provider.

In the case of gaming services hosted by third parties, gaming lag is also often the result of a large number of users from around the world concurrently connected to a given server/site. Especially in the case of a popular game, there could be excessive traffic load at the server/site that can degrade the end-user experience.

The gaming experience could also be affected by many other reasons, including the condition of the modem connecting to the broadband network, and the final data path taken to/from the hosted site of the game.

Despite such challenges, we have and will continue to strive to provide a quality broadband service to our MaxOnline customers by constantly optimising the network that we operate, and balancing the traffic load across multiple upstream providers.

In addition, we will continue to monitor our network equipment closely and invest to upgrade proactively, before bottlenecks occur.

We believe that our MaxOnline service provides a good overall platform that is well-suited to online gaming. Hence, we are very concerned about the comments made by our customers in the article and are in the midst of getting in touch with them, to help them minimise the lag experienced in their games.

As an indication of our seriousness in dealing with this issue of lag, we encourage online gamers who have experienced 'lagtime' to write to us directly at helpdesk@starhub.com, explaining their experience, and indicating clearly on the subject header, Gaming Lag.

Thomas Ee
Senior Vice-President
IP Services
StarHub

[jq75]

April 11, 2006
Network-congestion remarks generic in nature
I REFER to the article, 'Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds' (ST, April 7), and wish to highlight that my quote was used out of context.

My comments on network congestion were part of a briefing to the journalist on certain technical challenges facing online gaming services today.

They were generic in nature and in no way reflect how StarHub's MaxOnline network or service operates.

Based on my understanding, we believe that StarHub's network is robust and well-suited for online gaming.

Andrew Coward
Chief Technology Officer
Juniper Networks Asia Pacific

EDITOR'S NOTE:

We thank Mr Coward for his clarification. During the interview, the reporter had stated repeatedly that he was referring to the complaints by StarHub's customers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


April 11, 2006
No need to up bandwidth to speed up broadband
I READ with interest the article, 'Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds' (ST, April 7). There seems to be an apparent paradox that StarHub subscribers are 'drawn by StarHub's fast download speeds' and are happy with its 'fantastic movie, music and software download capabilities' but face intolerable lag when they play online shooting games.

The article cited an expert who attributed the cause to network congestion arising from insufficient bandwidth. The expert was also quoted as saying that congestion does not affect activities like surfing the Internet or movie downloads, and he went on to recommend that StarHub buys more hardware and provides more bandwidth.

As a subscriber, I am concerned that this may have the unintended effect of raising the cost of subscribing to StarHub's broadband services.

First of all, congestion is detrimental to all data flows, regardless of whether the flow is part of an online game, surfing or movie download application. Hence, having more bandwidth is always better, assuming that all other factors are the same. But providing more bandwidth, especially in the uplink direction from subscribers to the network, is not straightforward.

The article referred to a gamer who had a significantly better gaming experience on SingNet's broadband service compared to StarHub's. There are technological differences between SingNet's Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL)-based network and StarHub's Hybrid Fibre Coax (HFC)-based network.

Briefly, HFC-based networks usually have more downlink bandwidth than ADSL (thus accounting for the fast download speeds with StarHub), but more limited uplink bandwidth.

Furthermore, the bandwidth in the case of HFC is shared with other users in the neighbourhood and is thus affected by their bandwidth consumption, unlike the case of ADSL where each user has a point-to-point dedicated line to SingTel's central office.

Unfortunately, the emphasis on bandwidth clouds the key factor affecting performance in interactive applications such as online gaming and Internet telephony, which is the latency or delay in sending data between two parties, for example, between the gamer and the game server.

While increasing the available bandwidth can reduce latency, there are Quality of Service mechanisms which can be enabled in existing equipment to provide lower latency to data from interactive applications, improving performance without requiring an increase in bandwidth.

Generally, these mechanisms work by prioritising latency-sensitive data flows. Furthermore, in some cases, these mechanisms can also ensure that high-priority data flows are not affected by the traffic generated by other users in a shared network.

As interactive applications become more commonplace, service providers should devote more attention to providing latency guarantees in their networks instead of merely touting high bandwidths. This is worth remembering as Singapore plans its ultra fast-speed National Broadband Network.

Furthermore, having easily accessible, yet affordable, high-performance network connectivity is a cornerstone to the digital lifestyle and business ecosystem that Singapore intends to promote.

It is important that cost-effective methods are considered first before rushing into more expensive and possibly 'overkill' solutions that vendors like to recommend.

Dr Tham Chen Khong

[jq75]

April 11, 2006
StarHub's sluggish broadband service needs to be fixed
I am writing with regard to the article about StarHub's broadband service.

As a long-time subscriber, I can attest to the problem. I can also attest to the lack of meaningful discussion of the problem. Networks are not mysterious beasts that defy management or description. They are equipment, wires, configuration instructions. When managed properly, they deliver excellent service in a reliable way.

There seems to be confusion about the terms speed (capacity), reliability (packet loss), and latency (lag). The discussion with StarHub has degenerated to the "It's slow, no it isn't" level instead of focusing on the very real and measurable problem.

Let's look at the facts. StarHub offers various plans supposedly with higher speeds for higher prices. However, they do not guarantee any additional bandwidth for traffic after it leaves the local loop connection at a subscriber's home.

You may have a high speed circuit but it is only high speed to the first router within StarHub's network. What happens after that is very much a matter of how badly they oversubscribe their equipment.

There is no way that the aggregate bandwidth sold to subscribers is matched one for one in the backbone network of StarHub.

The situation gets worse when considering overseas sites. StarHub purchases a certain amount of international bandwidth to connect subscribers in Singapore to overseas networks.

Again, this bandwidth is oversubscribed at a certain rate, which results in the performance seen by subscribers. There are simple and free tools available on the net (www.pingplotter.com to graphically show how all these factors come into play to deliver the internet experience.

What is particularly frustrating is that StarHub refuse to acknowledge subscriber complaints even when they are backed up with evidence, and they continue to insist that the problem must be at the subscriber's end.

When that excuse is proven false, they fall back on the minimum service standards published by the IDA. (www.ida.gov.sg)

The bad news for gamers is that the standard is so low for local connections that real time gaming will be barely acceptable even if StarHub is meeting the standard. The international latency standard of 300msec makes gaming pointless. One can assess StarHub's approach to the market by looking at how they sell their service. It is not by focusing on the quality, latency or reliability.

It is by packaging freebies with two-year contracts to lock subscribers in regardless of the level of service provided. Once you sign the contract or accept the freebies, you can complain all you want but you no longer have a choice.

To tell a customer like Mr Tan, who is already a MaxOnline 6500 subscriber, that he needs a faster service is just ignorance. What he needs is a better network service provider, as we all do.

Hanafi Waleed A

[LemonT]

April 11, 2006
StarHub's sluggish broadband service needs to be fixed
I am writing with regard to the article about StarHub's broadband service.

As a long-time subscriber, I can attest to the problem. I can also attest to the lack of meaningful discussion of the problem. Networks are not mysterious beasts that defy management or description. They are equipment, wires, configuration instructions. When managed properly, they deliver excellent service in a reliable way.

There seems to be confusion about the terms speed (capacity), reliability (packet loss), and latency (lag). The discussion with StarHub has degenerated to the "It's slow, no it isn't" level instead of focusing on the very real and measurable problem.

Let's look at the facts. StarHub offers various plans supposedly with higher speeds for higher prices. However, they do not guarantee any additional bandwidth for traffic after it leaves the local loop connection at a subscriber's home.

You may have a high speed circuit but it is only high speed to the first router within StarHub's network. What happens after that is very much a matter of how badly they oversubscribe their equipment.

There is no way that the aggregate bandwidth sold to subscribers is matched one for one in the backbone network of StarHub.

The situation gets worse when considering overseas sites. StarHub purchases a certain amount of international bandwidth to connect subscribers in Singapore to overseas networks.

Again, this bandwidth is oversubscribed at a certain rate, which results in the performance seen by subscribers. There are simple and free tools available on the net (www.pingplotter.com to graphically show how all these factors come into play to deliver the internet experience.

What is particularly frustrating is that StarHub refuse to acknowledge subscriber complaints even when they are backed up with evidence, and they continue to insist that the problem must be at the subscriber's end.

When that excuse is proven false, they fall back on the minimum service standards published by the IDA. (www.ida.gov.sg)

The bad news for gamers is that the standard is so low for local connections that real time gaming will be barely acceptable even if StarHub is meeting the standard. The international latency standard of 300msec makes gaming pointless. One can assess StarHub's approach to the market by looking at how they sell their service. It is not by focusing on the quality, latency or reliability.

It is by packaging freebies with two-year contracts to lock subscribers in regardless of the level of service provided. Once you sign the contract or accept the freebies, you can complain all you want but you no longer have a choice.

To tell a customer like Mr Tan, who is already a MaxOnline 6500 subscriber, that he needs a faster service is just ignorance. What he needs is a better network service provider, as we all do.

Hanafi Waleed A


You didn't consider the using of p2p that's eating up all the bandwidth

[confused]

I think it's commonly acknowledged that P2P uses up a lot of bandwidth. But Starhub instead of insisting and misleading consumers by saying this:

Despite such challenges, we have and will continue to strive to provide a quality broadband service to our MaxOnline customers by constantly optimising the network that we operate, and balancing the traffic load across multiple upstream providers.

In addition, we will continue to monitor our network equipment closely and invest to upgrade proactively, before bottlenecks occur.

They should just fess up and state the obvious, which is there are bottlenecks. We are not going to do anything about it when it exceeds our profit models and since you have signed a 2 year contract. Too bad too sad for you haha.

Shareholders win. You lose. Enuff said.

Bottomline, no improvements at all. Keep playing number games with consumers, backend no or incremental improvements.

The fact is Starhub is already doing a good job at throttling P2P to ridiculous figures like single digit transfer rate. So even the so called bandwidth drain does not hold true nowadays.

One of the writers expressed concern that price will go up, then why not go for multi-tiered plans for different purposes, promising various QoS?

[jittery]

shld have a plan dedicated for p2p, a plan for gamers and a plan for normal surfing....

the exisiting bandwidth really sux as compared 3 years back..wat good is a 10mbps plan when its only to the starhub infrastructure??there's just too little local contents for consumers to play with..

AND its damned obvious starhub do not want to do anything about it...wtf...

[Lafiel]

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,5562,384347,00.html?

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,5562,384346,00.html?

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,5562,384345,00.html?

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,5562,384197,00.html?

[rainboiboi]

shld have a plan dedicated for p2p, a plan for gamers and a plan for normal surfing....

Yes, this is a much more better plan than the ones offered now.
Laghub should deal with the actual user group instead of the number games they are playing now.

[BuDw3i5eR]

no point of talking about this if no action is taken over at Fkhub

1st we complain 2nd they flame us back 3rd we kpkb them on forums

[Forceware]

no point of talking about this if no action is taken over at Fkhub

1st we complain 2nd they flame us back 3rd we kpkb them on forums
1st - We complain
2nd - They flame us back
3rd - We flame back
4th - They argue with us
5th - We Dulan
6th - They also Dulan
7th - We write email complain
8th - They Lan Lan suck thumb
9th - We also LLST. Why? Cos nothing is done in the end. :s22: :(

[SolarBurn]

FINE them money everyday until they solve the problem

[inventrex]

Till the Government don't really take force, LagHub will still Lag us out. MaxLagOnline.

[Forceware]

If I close 1 eye on online gaming, overall I'm very content with MOL Ultimate. The large bandwidth is very useful for me. :D

[yuri2]

Starhub should get out of Internet business and let all of you who complain subscribe to the goodness of Singtel BB. :s13:

[Ziran_]

They already said in the newspaper. They won't take action until a considerable amount of people quit.

Some guys please defect to SingNet and PacNet.

[Fatfool]

Starhub should get out of Internet business and let all of you who complain subscribe to the goodness of Singtel BB. :s13:
singnet doesn't have as much 'goodness' as you think either. heard of 'Stinknet'?

[nakata97]

singnet doesn't have as much 'goodness' as you think either. heard of 'Stinknet'?
lagnet, pay my money back.

CS always lag at night. Da** it. To think that StarHub VP still dares says,

email them at helpdesk and put subject header, Games Lag........... HAHA. think 1 day, 2000 people send them.

[hanlsn]

shld have a plan dedicated for p2p, a plan for gamers and a plan for normal surfing....

the exisiting bandwidth really sux as compared 3 years back..wat good is a 10mbps plan when its only to the starhub infrastructure??there's just too little local contents for consumers to play with..

AND its damned obvious starhub do not want to do anything about it...wtf...

It is impossible to say the least because of the nature of CABLE.

[hanlsn]

singnet doesn't have as much 'goodness' as you think either. heard of 'Stinknet'?

Well Stinknet vs Laghub

Stinknet wins

In the land of the blind , the 1 eyed man is king.

[Fatfool]

lagnet, pay my money back.

CS always lag at night. Da** it. To think that StarHub VP still dares says,

email them at helpdesk and put subject header, Games Lag........... HAHA. think 1 day, 2000 people send them.
aiya thats so they have an easier time with their email filters mah. All those with 'Games lag' in their titles can send to trash folder ;)

[Fatfool]

Well Stinknet vs Laghub

Stinknet wins

In the land of the blind , the 1 eyed man is king.
true. though i wouldn't be satisfied 'having 1 eye' either.

[rainboiboi]

In the land of the blind , the 1 eyed man is king.

Well said.
When is my fibre optics going to come....
haix

[LemonT]

I think it's commonly acknowledged that P2P uses up a lot of bandwidth. But Starhub instead of insisting and misleading consumers by saying this:



They should just fess up and state the obvious, which is there are bottlenecks. We are not going to do anything about it when it exceeds our profit models and since you have signed a 2 year contract. Too bad too sad for you haha.

Shareholders win. You lose. Enuff said.

Bottomline, no improvements at all. Keep playing number games with consumers, backend no or incremental improvements.

The fact is Starhub is already doing a good job at throttling P2P to ridiculous figures like single digit transfer rate. So even the so called bandwidth drain does not hold true nowadays.

One of the writers expressed concern that price will go up, then why not go for multi-tiered plans for different purposes, promising various QoS?

Most people argue that buying more bandwidth solves the problem but i feel is totally useless because no matter how much the ISP buy it's always never enough. An ISP can buy 20 more gigE links and it will be used up in an instance due to p2p. Buying bandwidth is not a solution for any ISP in the world to curb slow speed due to p2p abuse. Management of bandwidth is.

Another way to get better p2p speed is for your fellow peers not to be such misers in sharing uploads. Better local peering speeds = better download speeds.

:s13:

[chaicka]

Most people argue that buying more bandwidth solves the problem but i feel is totally useless because no matter how much the ISP buy it's always never enough. An ISP can buy 20 more gigE links and it will be used up in an instance due to p2p. Buying bandwidth is not a solution for any ISP in the world to curb slow speed due to p2p abuse. Management of bandwidth is.

Another way to get better p2p speed is for your fellow peers not to be such misers in sharing uploads. Better local peering speeds = better download speeds.

:s13:
Guess wat's the best solution?

Let those who KPKB so much when they are paying peanuts start their own ISP, and provide a service to the mass. Well, since there are "SO" many pple complaining, I guess the "FEE" they are paying per month can be pooled together to form a non-profitable organisation to offer broadband service to those who KPKB so much.

Isn't that great!

Oh, guess wat...in the years of p2ping, I have seldom seen any local p2p connections uploading >20kbps (oni 1 or 2 MOL-U user I have encountered) to me loh :s13: while I have streamlined my upload connections to only 2 but still maintain 45kbps max upstream.

[Fatfool]

Guess wat's the best solution?

Let those who KPKB so much when they are paying peanuts start their own ISP, and provide a service to the mass. Well, since there are "SO" many pple complaining, I guess the "FEE" they are paying per month can be pooled together to form a non-profitable organisation to offer broadband service to those who KPKB so much.

Isn't that great!

Oh, guess wat...in the years of p2ping, I have seldom seen any local p2p connections uploading >20kbps (oni 1 or 2 MOL-U user I have encountered) to me loh :s13: while I have streamlined my upload connections to only 2 but still maintain 45kbps max upstream.
wah magix really close 1 eye sia..... 256 kbps/8 = 32 kbps upload.

[chaicka]

wah magix really close 1 eye sia..... 256 kbps/8 = 32 kbps upload.
There is more to it...hahaha...;)

You pay a premium, u get premium service. You pay peanuts, u get monkey business. :s13:

You pay for a proton cannot be expecting a bmw rite...:)

Anyway, I seldom p2p anyway...it's juz not my mainstream usage. There are better things to do than juz p2ping.

[confused]

They already said in the newspaper. They won't take action until a considerable amount of people quit.

Some guys please defect to SingNet and PacNet.

There's something call 2/3 years contract.

If you want, you should tell people not to sign up on the first place.

[MadKnight]

Magix connection also want to die aready for home user, is just a matter of time

[confused]

Most people argue that buying more bandwidth solves the problem but i feel is totally useless because no matter how much the ISP buy it's always never enough. An ISP can buy 20 more gigE links and it will be used up in an instance due to p2p. Buying bandwidth is not a solution for any ISP in the world to curb slow speed due to p2p abuse. Management of bandwidth is.

Another way to get better p2p speed is for your fellow peers not to be such misers in sharing uploads. Better local peering speeds = better download speeds.

:s13:

As I have said already, starhub is already doing a very good job "managing" bandwidth, by overloading the CMTS in most parts of Singapore.

So don't talk about adding gigE links lor. Thank very much. Cos this is the problem I am talking about now.

[lobo76]

Guess wat's the best solution?

Let those who KPKB so much when they are paying peanuts start their own ISP, and provide a service to the mass. Well, since there are "SO" many pple complaining, I guess the "FEE" they are paying per month can be pooled together to form a non-profitable organisation to offer broadband service to those who KPKB so much.


sounds like... PAP. :s22:
but we don't have money to start company wor...even got money still have to go through IDA..i.e govt election laws eqivalent...


There is more to it...hahaha...

You pay a premium, u get premium service. You pay peanuts, u get monkey business. u do know in singapore, peanuts are worth $600k, right....

You pay for a proton cannot be expecting a bmw rite...

Anyway, I seldom p2p anyway...it's juz not my mainstream usage. There are better things to do than juz p2ping.

U can dun care since it is not your usage, nothing wrong with that. we all only care about 1 person only..ourselves. But if your usage was affected, you will start your own company?
Isn't that great!

[alan9979]

Hi there,

For those of you who has suffered lagtime while playing online games, please send e-mail at this following e-mail address:

helpdesk@starhub.com

Please include the following details in your e-mail:

- StarHub customer number
- Full name
- NRIC / FIN number
- Full address
- HFC MAC ID (found at the barcode sticker on the cable modem) :
- Cable modem light status :
- The date that the problem started and the time of occurrence :
- Operating System (Version and Service Pack) :
- Can the problem be resolved when PC directly connected to cable modem (bypass router):
- Firewall, anti-virus, peer-to-peer software running in your PC. (Please include vendor and version) :
- Have you done any tweaking to the Registry:
- Does the problem persist when using another PC:
- IP of the site/server that is having lag :
- Port number used for the game :
- Test account user ID and password :
- Game server admin's contact number or email :
- Download speed, ping statistic, traceroute, pathping, adapter physical address, renewing of IP address. (Refer to Utilities.txt for the guide to obtain the information from our website)

I hope this will help most of you.

Thank you.

[carey]

- Test account user ID and password

I assume it's for the gamers right?

But to include that in the email? Seow or what?

[Mohawks]

that's for password protected servers... not asking for your ingame id/password

it's great to see StarHub trying to resolve this issue... no doubt it took a lot of publicity to get them started, but it's a good start

those who want the issue fix, please do spend a little effort to send your report to the email above with the required information ;)

[ooops]

Singnet, you better fix ur connection bcuz some of us are having lag too! Otherwise, Straits Times here i come.

[carey]

that's for password protected servers... not asking for your ingame id/password

it's great to see StarHub trying to resolve this issue... no doubt it took a lot of publicity to get them started, but it's a good start

those who want the issue fix, please do spend a little effort to send your report to the email above with the required information ;)

That's assuming if you are playing CS on password protected servers...

What about those of us who lag while play on MMORPG public servers?

[chaicka]

Magix connection also want to die aready for home user, is just a matter of time
Heard this long ago liao.....but until today still cannot kill it...:s13:

Maybe when VDSL/VDSL2 or FTTx is out, then it will juz die a natural death. But for now, I am still seeing NEW sign-ups despite the premium subscription. Since it's still open to new subscription, and there is no indication of stopping new subscription, its death wun be in the near future, at least not for the next 1-2 years. Dun forget, there are "high profile" subscribers in that pool too...:s13:

You know something that I don't?

[LemonT]

As I have said already, starhub is already doing a very good job "managing" bandwidth, by overloading the CMTS in most parts of Singapore.

So don't talk about adding gigE links lor. Thank very much. Cos this is the problem I am talking about now.


overloading CMTS is normal, adding another BSR/CMTS cards are also easily done. Speed locally are generally up to mark.

[LemonT]

Heard this long ago liao.....but until today still cannot kill it...:s13:

Maybe when VDSL/VDSL2 or FTTx is out, then it will juz die a natural death. But for now, I am still seeing NEW sign-ups despite the premium subscription. Since it's still open to new subscription, and there is no indication of stopping new subscription, its death wun be in the near future, at least not for the next 1-2 years. Dun forget, there are "high profile" subscribers in that pool too...:s13:

You know something that I don't?

magix better dun die so fast..

[chaicka]

magix better dun die so fast..
Dun worry.....if anything new develops, I sure keep u informed. Juz curious dunno what that MadKnight (aka Princess086, his previous nick) knows that I dunno...;)

[minus2]

Starhub seems rather ignorant.

They can claim whatever and how much bandwidth.

But still the point so that a user with 6500 need not need MORE bandwidth. If it does, that is called bitorrent.

I lost my faith and trust in SH though I'm in HubClub.

Thoroughly and truly disappointed. Should have switched to Singnet with it's 10Mb plan when I could.

Empty promises turns around and backfires. Good job SH.

[jq75]

No ISP can provide consistent access speeds
I THANK Dr Tham Chen Khong for his insights in the letter, 'No need to up bandwidth to speed up broadband' (ST, April 11).

We would like to assure Dr Tham that we have always had our customers' interests at heart when we upgraded our network either to expand our bandwidth access or to improve our quality of service.

In fact, we have continually added more value for our MaxOnline subscribers over the years, most recently by offering our Digital Voice service for free, saving customers $10 a month with unlimited local calls.

On the shared nature of our cable network, we would like to highlight that all MaxOnline homes have direct access to StarHub's regional and central facilities, the equivalent of a telephone company's local area telephone exchanges and central offices.

The dedicated access of a DSL service is typically up to the local telephony exchange only, which makes up a small portion of the entire route to an overseas website. The larger portion of the route beyond the local exchange is shared access as it is connected to the Internet, a public network shared by users all over the world.

Regardless of the technology platform, no ISP is able to provide access to the Internet that gives users consistent access speeds throughout the day.

We would also like to highlight that there are technologies already in place that have helped to provide an improved level of service for our MaxOnline service.

For example, StarHub has implemented CableLab's PacketCable technology that allows us to manage the traffic within our end-to-end network more effectively.

We will continue to optimise our network to ensure that we deliver a quality broadband service to our customers.

Michael Sim
Manager
Corporate Communications & Investor Relations
StarHub


Act on feedback, StarHub
I HAVE been using StarHub MaxOnline for years and have encountered numerous service disruptions, 'lag' in online gaming, etc.

I thus found its response, 'MaxOnline well-suited to online gaming' (ST, April 11), good and informative.

StarHub ended its letter by asking subscribers with 'lag' problems to send an e-mail to seek its assistance. I hope it keeps its word. In the past, I had provided feedback, on service disruptions and poor speed, which was acknowledged but there had been no visible improvements.

However, more recently, after not getting a reply on a few occasions, I decided that there was no point in taking the time to send an e-mail.

If StarHub had been constantly reviewing feedback from its subscribers, would the present issue have arisen?

Toh Tze Wen


April 13, 2006
Have local servers for gamers
BEING a gamer myself, I was very interested in the recent letters to the Forum responding to the article, 'Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds' (ST, April 7).

Perhaps StarHub and SingNet should follow the example of Pacific Internet (PacNet), which has a 'division' called PacNet Asian Gaming Network. It has consistently set up servers in Singapore for gamers.

Internet service providers always say that they cannot control bandwidth to overseas servers. They also mention that the lack of local content means that they have to pay for expensive overseas bandwidth, so the prices of broadband here cannot be compared to Hong Kong or Korea's.

By creating local servers, they could have solved both of these problems easily.

Chew Mun Kit

[leaving_footsteps]

Maybe I should ask my friend to get the reporters to his house so he can demonstrate how he can 'play better' with Singnet as compared to MOL since he has both services. The difference is quite big really.

[minus2]

Think about it.
It's like a car. You aren't happy with it's speed. So, u buy more bandwidth, but does it help? No. More car space doesn't help. Changing the engine (connectivity in our aspect) would work.

Seriously, what draws people to MOL is because of their HubClub. SH mobile is quite cheap with it's per second billing. And they are the only cable provider. So if people have two of the three services, they would want the last one to complete the "gap".

And advertising has helped them tremendously.

My point is, they have a sub-standard service and they boast about them having so many subscribers is because of the fact that people are/were attracted by the HubClub beneficts and the advertisements. Promising sky and earth but delivering unworthy sand.

[confused]

Great NOW the starhub PR people are stepping into the forum pages. That means it's bye bye consumers. HELLO, loads of BS. They have neglected to mention that if they send technicians to help you to troubleshoot the problem and if the problem is with your computer, they will charge you $40 ex-GST. Singnet don't do that. They will do a linecheck etc.

Starhub will just say the usual BS, that overseas connections is beyond our control. So you will just have to live with it. :s22:

overloading CMTS is normal, adding another BSR/CMTS cards are also easily done. Speed locally are generally up to mark.

Huh? Overloading is NORMAL ah? Then you wonder why people continue to complain.

If it's so easy to rectify. I wonder what's stopping them.

[chaicka]

Great NOW the starhub PR people are stepping into the forum pages. That means it's bye bye consumers. HELLO, loads of BS. They have neglected to mention that if they send technicians to help you to troubleshoot the problem and if the problem is with your computer, they will charge you $40 ex-GST. Singnet don't do that. They will do a linecheck etc.

Starhub will just say the usual BS, that overseas connections is beyond our control. So you will just have to live with it. :s22:



Huh? Overloading is NORMAL ah? Then you wonder why people continue to complain.

If it's so easy to rectify. I wonder what's stopping them.
Cost $$$...:D

Wondering how much a CMTS cost...as some areas that I know of, took them donkey years juz to deploy 1 more CMTS but in fact, the overloading is so much that even that delayed new CMTS does not improve anything...

[Webbyboy]

Well said.
When is my fibre optics going to come....
haix


When you willing to pay $200+/mth. :s22:

[LemonT]

Great NOW the starhub PR people are stepping into the forum pages. That means it's bye bye consumers. HELLO, loads of BS. They have neglected to mention that if they send technicians to help you to troubleshoot the problem and if the problem is with your computer, they will charge you $40 ex-GST. Singnet don't do that. They will do a linecheck etc.

Starhub will just say the usual BS, that overseas connections is beyond our control. So you will just have to live with it. :s22:



Huh? Overloading is NORMAL ah? Then you wonder why people continue to complain.

If it's so easy to rectify. I wonder what's stopping them.



huh? Every ISP in the world practices oversubscription, y r u so surprised?

[pkchukiss]

It is true that all ISPs in the world practice over-subscription, based on the premise that not every user that has subscribed will try to access the resource at any one time. Of course, the actual yield a user can get out of this depends on how much over-subscribed the service is; the more people sharing a common pool, the higher chance of lesser bandwidth he stands to receive at any given time.

Judging from the complaints, it is possible that the over-subscription over in certain areas has caused a significant degradation of the user experience. This should not happen; over-subscription should be an applied method to save on equipment costs without being obvious to the user. If it does, the ISP stands to lose out, and looks like a cheapskate.

[ccarol90]

It is true that all ISPs in the world practice over-subscription, based on the premise that not every user that has subscribed will try to access the resource at any one time. Of course, the actual yield a user can get out of this depends on how much over-subscribed the service is; the more people sharing a common pool, the higher chance of lesser bandwidth he stands to receive at any given time.

Judging from the complaints, it is possible that the over-subscription over in certain areas has caused a significant degradation of the user experience. This should not happen; over-subscription should be an applied method to save on equipment costs without being obvious to the user. If it does, the ISP stands to lose out, and looks like a cheapskate.
nice explanation. the PR people at Starhub's broadband (consumer) arm is stocking up on smoke grenades in all sorts of colours... it adds to the creativity of the solutions offered

[ccarol90]

Cost $$$...:D

Wondering how much a CMTS cost...as some areas that I know of, took them donkey years juz to deploy 1 more CMTS but in fact, the overloading is so much that even that delayed new CMTS does not improve anything...
yes, you know it too - just like my own sources, they concur. but some areas are still ok and well within capacity, so those will be the torchbearer to the network quality...

so to generalize, it is not wrong to choose one segment and spotlight them, PR will try to do that I suppose.

[liangtam]

Just as you all argue, SingNet has had this forum thread featured on their Dedicated VS Shared article - here (http://www.singnet.com.sg/dedacc1/gamers.asp).
Seems like its a fight now on the advertising claim between each ISP.

Nevertheless, I still find the ISP I use better of the 2.

[jq75]

April 14, 2006

StarHub will upgrade its broadband network to solve bottleneck problems
We refer to Mr Hanafi Waleed A's letter on StarHub's broadband service (ST Online Forum, April 11). We would like to assure Mr Hanafi that we take all comments from our customers on our MaxOnline service seriously and have diligently investigated the cases.

We have continually worked to optimise and enhance our network so that our customers are able to experience quality broadband service.

Latency is an issue that all Internet Service Providers (ISPs) around the world face from time to time. The internet is a large, complex and ungoverned global network operated by mutiple ISPs and their upstream providers.

There are many factors that can affect latency, including congested links between upstream providers, the condition of the modem connecting the broadband network, and the final data path taken to/from the hosted site.

While ISPs will strive to resolve all these issues, the reality is that some factors are beyond their control given the way the internet operates.

Nevertheless we will continue to monitor our network closely and actively invest in and upgrade our network equipment before a bottleneck occurs.

StarHub is fully committed to delivering a broadband service of high quality and reliability. StarHub has a range of MaxOnline plans to meet the needs of different users, including MaxOnline FlexiSurf 2000 - the only pay-as-you-surf pre-paid broadband access service in Singapore.

We are assisting Mr Hanafi with his MaxOnline service. We encourage our customers who have experienced latency to write to us directly at helpdesk@starhub.com as well. We are eager to help them as much as possible.

Michael Sim
Manager, Corporate Communications and Investor Relations
StarHub

[chaicka]

To Mr. Sim,

It is understood in the IT-savvy Singapore that there are factors beyond control with regards to the Internet. But the key point that most of these complaints is the fact that latency and congestion occurs within the ISPs' own network, which is definitely within its control (choice of equipment, deployment of equipment, sizing, overloading, etc).

This is the key area that any ISP should be focusing on, but obviously not so with all the local ISPs.

[jq75]

April 15, 2006
StarHub pledges quality broadband service
I THANK Mr Toh Tze Wen ('Act on feedback, StarHub') and Mr Chew Mun Kit ('Have local servers for gamers'; ST, April 13) for their feedback and suggestions.

Online latency is affected by several factors, many of which are beyond the control of the Internet service providers. Nevertheless, we would like to assure Mr Toh that we are committed to providing a quality broadband service to our customers and are monitoring feedback very closely. We continually enhance and improve our network.

In addition, we would like to assure Mr Toh that we take all comments from our customers on our MaxOnline service seriously and have investigated all such cases diligently. Therefore, we were concerned to read that he had not heard from us on a few occasions. We have since clarified with him that we had indeed replied to all his queries.

As for Mr Chew's suggestion on setting up game servers in Singapore, StarHub welcomes online game providers to host their services here. We launched our online content-collaboration programme, Velocity, last year which was intended to encourage international online content providers to set up operations in Singapore.

With regard to online gaming, our network hosted Maple Story SEA with AsiaSoft last year. We also announced recently our partnership with Yahoo! to serve its users in Singapore and South-east Asia.

Hence, we believe we are of the same view that more online content and services should be hosted locally on our network, and we are working towards that goal.

Michael Sim
Manager
Corporate Communications & Investor Relations
StarHub

[rusty19]

April 15, 2006
StarHub pledges quality broadband service
I THANK Mr Toh Tze Wen ('Act on feedback, StarHub') and Mr Chew Mun Kit ('Have local servers for gamers'; ST, April 13) for their feedback and suggestions.

Online latency is affected by several factors, many of which are beyond the control of the Internet service providers. Nevertheless, we would like to assure Mr Toh that we are committed to providing a quality broadband service to our customers and are monitoring feedback very closely. We continually enhance and improve our network.

In addition, we would like to assure Mr Toh that we take all comments from our customers on our MaxOnline service seriously and have investigated all such cases diligently. Therefore, we were concerned to read that he had not heard from us on a few occasions. We have since clarified with him that we had indeed replied to all his queries.

As for Mr Chew's suggestion on setting up game servers in Singapore, StarHub welcomes online game providers to host their services here. We launched our online content-collaboration programme, Velocity, last year which was intended to encourage international online content providers to set up operations in Singapore.

With regard to online gaming, our network hosted Maple Story SEA with AsiaSoft last year. We also announced recently our partnership with Yahoo! to serve its users in Singapore and South-east Asia.

Hence, we believe we are of the same view that more online content and services should be hosted locally on our network, and we are working towards that goal.

Michael Sim
Manager
Corporate Communications & Investor Relations
StarHub

Maplestory LOL

[ooops]

To all ISPs:
Stop bull****ting about all these things about Internet is an uncontrollable elements bla bla bla. We can't control anything beyond Singapore. But the problem lies within YOUR OWN NETWORK which are currently congested & overloaded! Solve your own local problem 1st & HALF of our latency problem will be gone. Period! And to IDA, election is coming...

[pkchukiss]

Woa! Calm down! It doesn't pay to get angry, and strike off a few more minutes of your life over this. It is true that the ISPs are really running around the bush, but currently there is nothing we can do if ISPs continue to insist overloading their local equipment...

[WhiteShadows]

Maybe someone should email Michael Sim to read this thread. :s22:
michaelsim@starhub.com
http://www.starhub.com/corporate/newsroom/media_ctr.html

[whanafi]

April 14, 2006

StarHub will upgrade its broadband network to solve bottleneck problems
We refer to Mr Hanafi Waleed A's letter on StarHub's broadband service (ST Online Forum, April 11). We would like to assure Mr Hanafi that we take all comments from our customers on our MaxOnline service seriously and have diligently investigated the cases.

We have continually worked to optimise and enhance our network so that our customers are able to experience quality broadband service.

Latency is an issue that all Internet Service Providers (ISPs) around the world face from time to time. The internet is a large, complex and ungoverned global network operated by mutiple ISPs and their upstream providers.

There are many factors that can affect latency, including congested links between upstream providers, the condition of the modem connecting the broadband network, and the final data path taken to/from the hosted site.

While ISPs will strive to resolve all these issues, the reality is that some factors are beyond their control given the way the internet operates.

Nevertheless we will continue to monitor our network closely and actively invest in and upgrade our network equipment before a bottleneck occurs.

StarHub is fully committed to delivering a broadband service of high quality and reliability. StarHub has a range of MaxOnline plans to meet the needs of different users, including MaxOnline FlexiSurf 2000 - the only pay-as-you-surf pre-paid broadband access service in Singapore.

We are assisting Mr Hanafi with his MaxOnline service. We encourage our customers who have experienced latency to write to us directly at helpdesk@starhub.com as well. We are eager to help them as much as possible.

Michael Sim
Manager, Corporate Communications and Investor Relations
StarHub

Well since I am the guy they are talking about, I might as well give an update.

I consistently call 1633 and email the helpdesk@starhub.com address whenever I see a problem. Although this is at the cost of my blood pressure, it is the only way to move a large organization that is trying to ignore a problem.

They always reply with the standard email asking for a hundred different tests. This is to make you give up. Don't.

I reply with a PingPlotter graph and ask them to fix the problem. They promise to get back to me. Somebody usually phones and asks to send a technician. I refuse on two grounds. I don't want unqualified people playing with my network, and the problem is clearly in their segment, not mine.

After a while, you finally get through to an engineer who actually knows something and who is working in the Network Operations Centre. They don't actually admit anything, but your problem eventually clears up.

Tonight my latency to www.starhub.com is 16ms. It was 500ms 2 weeks ago.

The moral of the story is keep the pressure on.

[cHAo_tURTLe]

Dun worry.....if anything new develops, I sure keep u informed. Juz curious dunno what that MadKnight (aka Princess086, his previous nick) knows that I dunno...;)


my guess is probably nothing :s13:

[chaicka]

my guess is probably nothing :s13:
Nothing means good news to us...:s13:

[Lafiel]

i fix my bw, latency problem by calling them non stop, sending results back, scolding the cso noob etc
with 4-5 visits and finally found fault lies at my old modem
so i change my old modem to sb5101i but the problem came back again after a few days. so i start farking them up again and finally now they fix it for good.
They are so afriad of me till they will call me back on weekend to check on my connection, cause i specifically mention of the slow connection during weekends

[carey]

i fix my bw, latency problem by calling them non stop, sending results back, scolding the cso noob etc
with 4-5 visits and finally found fault lies at my old modem
so i change my old modem to sb5101i but the problem came back again after a few days. so i start farking them up again and finally now they fix it for good.
They are so afriad of me till they will call me back on weekend to check on my connection, cause i specifically mention of the slow connection during weekends

Hmmm...so the problem doesn't lie with your old modem then?

Anyway, I agree with you...must make f-noise if not they won't do anything...and it must be constant because if you let up, things will just deteriorate back to what it was or worse...

In my case, I complain then it became better but after while, it was back to square one and it took another complaint before they bumped up my speed again...but it looks like another call is due soon as my speed is deteriorating again...

[blueweed]

everyone write into Channel new Asia and ask one of those nice ladies like Glenda etc to do a piece on 'THE REAL DEAL ABOUT ONLINE GAMING'...now adays CNA pretty on and have alot of controversial topics...maybe part of the content can be a direct call to Mr Michael Sim 'Hello this is Channel News Asia and I would like to ask you a few questions bla bla' I found their recent piece on gamers very blend and no substance, its time to look deeper into our needs...

Here!

Tip us off!
• Call the MediaCorp News Hotline 68 2222 68
One number gets you to MediaCorp Singapore's radio channels, TV stations and TODAY.
(This is not a Helpdesk line. It does not handle technical support and other types of queries.)


• Contact our Reporting team at reporting@channelnewsasia.com.
If you come across something that you think will make news, whether it happens to you personally or if it's something you're organising.

EDIT--I just sent email to CNA but mailbox full!

[WhiteShadows]

Just send them this thread url and they can dig out all the information they want. :s13:

[wherehouse]

(Real Time) STRATEGY from Starhub, our favourite partner for lag-free online gaming!

http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showpost.php?p=18248479&postcount=34

The PR dept really playing RTS everyday now... haha

[Webbyboy]

Starhub MOL routing is bad. These traceroutes to Korea.

From my own home connection:

Tracing route to 211.220.194.218 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 13 ms 14 ms 28 ms 10.43.0.1
3 24 ms 11 ms 12 ms 172.20.43.129
4 9 ms 11 ms 12 ms 172.26.43.1
5 10 ms 26 ms 10 ms 172.20.8.129
6 15 ms 11 ms 32 ms 203.116.5.97
7 49 ms 11 ms 16 ms 203.118.3.224
8 214 ms 232 ms 213 ms 203.234.255.73
9 216 ms 212 ms 233 ms 218.145.63.70
10 227 ms 214 ms 214 ms 220.73.150.125
11 217 ms 230 ms 216 ms 220.73.152.122
12 219 ms 246 ms 229 ms 222.97.180.66
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 224 ms 241 ms 223 ms 211.220.194.218

From a server in Equinix/Starhub

traceroute to 211.220.194.218 (211.220.194.218), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 202.124.17.1 (202.124.17.1) 0.228 ms 0.136 ms 0.087 ms
2 203.116.8.133 (203.116.8.133) 0.644 ms 0.733 ms 0.609 ms
3 vlan911-an-cat6k-ts-1-rsm2.starhub.net.sg (203.118.5.3) 1.244 ms 1.365 ms 1.040 ms
4 203.118.3.224 (203.118.3.224) 0.927 ms 0.886 ms 0.736 ms
5 203.234.255.69 (203.234.255.69) 84.314 ms 89.656 ms 84.530 ms
6 218.145.63.149 (218.145.63.149) 91.680 ms 89.330 ms 99.529 ms
7 220.73.151.189 (220.73.151.189) 85.685 ms 87.825 ms 90.536 ms
8 220.73.149.206 (220.73.149.206) 96.664 ms 90.427 ms 100.026 ms
9 222.97.180.78 (222.97.180.78) 98.044 ms 95.799 ms 91.414 ms


A big difference. WTF are they trying to do. :s22:

[carey]

everyone write into Channel new Asia and ask one of those nice ladies like Glenda etc to do a piece on 'THE REAL DEAL ABOUT ONLINE GAMING'...now adays CNA pretty on and have alot of controversial topics...maybe part of the content can be a direct call to Mr Michael Sim 'Hello this is Channel News Asia and I would like to ask you a few questions bla bla' I found their recent piece on gamers very blend and no substance, its time to look deeper into our needs...



Or call Dianna Ser to do it lor...

Maybe she might even come down and interview you :s13:

[AgentSnake]

Well since I am the guy they are talking about, I might as well give an update.

I consistently call 1633 and email the helpdesk@starhub.com address whenever I see a problem. Although this is at the cost of my blood pressure, it is the only way to move a large organization that is trying to ignore a problem.

They always reply with the standard email asking for a hundred different tests. This is to make you give up. Don't.

I reply with a PingPlotter graph and ask them to fix the problem. They promise to get back to me. Somebody usually phones and asks to send a technician. I refuse on two grounds. I don't want unqualified people playing with my network, and the problem is clearly in their segment, not mine.

After a while, you finally get through to an engineer who actually knows something and who is working in the Network Operations Centre. They don't actually admit anything, but your problem eventually clears up.

Tonight my latency to www.starhub.com is 16ms. It was 500ms 2 weeks ago.

The moral of the story is keep the pressure on.

Mr Hanafi, where do u live? ard north area?
My Plight also same as urs.. so wat did the engineers do?

[Expert]

i north area.. no problem so far... :o

[AgentSnake]

i north area.. no problem so far... :o


sorry to ask which area of north are u residing at?
im ard at sembawang area.. dunno whats the cause of the major slow down issues..wherether its my networksystems which i dun think its the cause.. or the whole of sembawang ppl has taken up sh services..

Since im monitory daily of my netstream download n upload speed with a diy lcd kit which taps on my mainboard... i noe when im facing a slowdown..

while in gaming bf2 easg server max download stream only ard 20kb..cant get more nor less..n ping withing server is 70~100++

[Leo_power]

yeah...
i staying at the blue glass area...
(the block with the mini mart)
it is seriously slow...

[SolarBurn]

wah still talking about this ah?
jus give up, LagHub will never improve

[ohmygod1986]

Laghub ... Now still fat green pipe ...

Still gonna lag ...

:s22:

[XkaOnslaught]

er .. lol... mai revive dead topic .....


anyway... since you already revived it.. i wonder how many Starhub employees use Singnet :spin:

[SvahaX]

Hello there. I am from Western Australia, Perth.

Now.. I did some research, and I get 60 ping to SINGNET, while I get 300+ ping to STARHUB. I have worked out that this is because SingNet uses Optus (An Australian ISP) to connect to australia, and this results in much lower pings. Starhub also uses Optus, but the Optus-connections it uses are very dodgy and high-ping. Basically, Singnet has good routes to Optus, and Starhub doesn't.

Let's look at a tracert:
1 * * * Request timed out.
2 10 ms 11 ms 11 ms lo0.dsl-lns1.wa.westnet.com.au [202.72.147.250]

3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms gi1-2.atm.perth.westnet.com.au [202.72.130.101]

4 42 ms 12 ms 11 ms vlan385.o6ssc76fe.optus.net.au [59.154.14.21]
5 60 ms 61 ms 61 ms 203.208.148.85
6 61 ms 60 ms 61 ms 203.208.149.50
7 61 ms 61 ms 62 ms 203.208.149.18
8 73 ms 80 ms 79 ms FE-5-1-0.elias.singnet.com.sg [165.21.12.79]
9 76 ms 133 ms 68 ms 165.21.103.221
10 74 ms 71 ms 64 ms pop.singnet.com.sg [165.21.103.210]

Number 2-3 = My ISP (10 ping)
Number 4 = Optus (11 ping)
Then it connects to Singapore, and eventually to Singnet, which gives me 64 ping.

Now, lets look at a tracert to Starhub.

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 11 ms 10 ms 11 ms lo0.dsl-lns1.wa.westnet.com.au [202.72.147.250]

3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms gi1-2.atm.perth.westnet.com.au [202.72.130.101]

4 12 ms 15 ms 12 ms vlan385.o6ssc76fe.optus.net.au [59.154.14.21]
5 14 ms 12 ms 13 ms gi8-0-0.ig4.optus.net.au [61.88.226.25]
6 119 ms 118 ms 108 ms REACH-HK.ig4.optus.net.au [61.88.167.6]
7 292 ms 293 ms 300 ms unknown.net.reach.com [134.159.128.130]
8 305 ms 300 ms 300 ms vlan907-cat6ts2-rsm2.starhub.net.sg [203.118.3.1
97]
9 297 ms 314 ms 307 ms ge3-0-gsrts1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.1.6]
10 297 ms 301 ms 306 ms pos1-0-gsrtl1.starhub.net.sg [203.118.0.241]
11 297 ms 292 ms 307 ms 203.118.2.18
12 295 ms 298 ms 306 ms 203.116.254.109

Like before..
2-3 = My ISP. 11 ping
4 = Optus 12 ping
At number 6, still connecting to Optus, this time it connects to what appears to be a route between Optus and Reach.com. This is where the huge ping comes from. The jump is massive. 13 -> 100ms. 100ms would be the max I expect from SG, but then it jumps to reach.com and goes even higher. 300ms.


So yes, it's not bull****. Starhub has CRAP ping to Australia. I am CLOSE to Singapore, think about the people in East Australia -- Even WORSE ping. I tried to tracert Reach.com, and it couldn't even.. reach? it. =| Just dc'd after 30 hops.


Notes:
I get 60 ping to Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia
I get 100 ping to the Phillipines
I get 120 ping to Korea and Japan
I get 140 ping to Hong Kong
Yet.. I get 300 ping to starhub. Even Pacific has good ping.




Summary: Singnet = Good ping to Australia
Pacific = Good ping to Australia
Starhub = **** ping (I get better ****ing ping to the US, and that's half way across the world.)

[Mohawks]

don't forget Singnet and Optus are both own by SingTel ;)

[ghui64]

suckHub's green pipe so fat! that it jump for joy! and it got stuck!

[johnnygamer]

StarHub are capping international websites down to a measly to 10-15KB/sec which is barely 2 to 3 times faster than a dial up modem connection :( On a 1.5Mbps plan you should be getting ~150KB/sec(>10 times faster than current speed), 6Mbps should be getting ~600KB/sec, 12Mbps should be getting ~1200KB/sec, and 100Mbps should be getting ~10,000KB/sec. Read about about it here:
StarHub is capping intl websites to 10-15KB/sec (http://forum.starhub.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=21;t=22900)

Its important that you post within that thread instead of here as StarHub would not be monitoring this third party forum.

Spread the word. Post that link to other forums and threads, blogs, emails, irc, etc. Substandard web speeds has got to stop.

[suntzu]

Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

StarHub are capping international websites down to a measly to 10-15KB/sec which is barely 2 to 3 times faster than a dial up modem connection :( On a 1.5Mbps plan you should be getting ~150KB/sec(>10 times faster than current speed), 6Mbps should be getting ~600KB/sec, 12Mbps should be getting ~1200KB/sec, and 100Mbps should be getting ~10,000KB/sec. Read about about it here:
StarHub is capping intl websites to 10-15KB/sec (http://forum.starhub.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=21;t=22900)

Its important that you post within that thread instead of here as StarHub would not be monitoring this third party forum.

Spread the word. Post that link to other forums and threads, blogs, emails, irc, etc. Substandard web speeds has got to stop.

[justjohnnygamer]

Gamers should be happy now.

StarHub Selects Sandvine to Deploy End-to-End PacketCable MultiMedia™ Solution (http://www.sandvine.com/news/pr_detail.asp?ID=100)
Through PCMM, StarHub is able to provide a better experience for their customers with improved Quality of Service (QoS), particularly in the area of online gaming.Although I think now everyone else is sad because of the slow speeds. :sad:

[justjohnnygamer]

wah still talking about this ah?
jus give up, LagHub will never improve
Actually SolarBurn, it was improved thanks to the wonders of QoS and traffic shaping... Improved for gamers that is :D

[suntzu]

The root of evil is StarHub is making good money by giving you slow speed!

Cutting cost la!

No magic with Magic box like SandVine. The real problem is StarHub deliberate not buying enough International PIPE.

So end up, all kena choke! Write to their CEO Mr Terry at terry@starhub.com or timothy@starhub.com



Gamers should be happy now.

StarHub Selects Sandvine to Deploy End-to-End PacketCable MultiMedia™ Solution (http://www.sandvine.com/news/pr_detail.asp?ID=100)
Although I think now everyone else is sad because of the slow speeds. :sad:

[justjohnnygamer]

The lesson here SolarBurn is not to give up so easily lah

[zeroex]

Wah amazing 1 yr old thread is dug up

[justjohnnygamer]

Wah amazing 1 yr old thread is dug up
And stilll quite relevant for many reasons.

[suntzu]

This is what we call "Track Record".

StarHub has very bad track record and it is traceable back to few years ago.

Wah amazing 1 yr old thread is dug up

[justjohnnygamer]

This is what we call "Track Record".

StarHub has very bad track record and it is traceable back to few years ago.

Wah amazing 1 yr old thread is dug upYes and it is for this reason I bumped 8 other threads to provide a track record for one doubting Thomas and naysayer. You can get direct links to the threads I bumped here in this post:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?p=25943324#post25943324

All I can say is that StarHub is very lucky that HWZ only allows searching of threads up to 1 year ago(I haven't been able to search for threads older than this. If you know how, please let me know).

[liangtam]

You can try wayback machine, but how much can be digged out from cache oso depends.

[BradenHeat]

Here comes the real hitter....



so how to get the top brass notice such "small" stuff ?

[Sendoh82]

too bad the newspaper reporters are in edmw one.

[layzibum22]

apart from the recently privacy issue... i would still prefer singnet for my online gaming...

[liangtam]

apart from the recently privacy issue... i would still prefer singnet for my online gaming...
PacMan is still the prefered choice for gaming between local users :D
As for overseas gaming, shld be same :)

[BradenHeat]

PacMan is still the prefered choice for gaming between local users :D
As for overseas gaming, shld be same :)
you're REALLY proud of them aint you....sad for us man.....:s22:

[liangtam]

you're REALLY proud of them aint you....sad for us man.....:s22:
SingNet ish okay ma, so long as don't download ahem stuff...

[maxhurt]

so it seems every year we have tons of complaints, tons of unhappy users, and tons of bull**** from Starhub. And yet, the amount of subscribers do not decrease, there is no significant reason for Starhub to listen to us.

I picture this going on forever :s13:

[Feador]

i think some of the subscribers are going for the freebies and doesnt use the internet that often

[SnowBloweR]

http://www.speedtest.net/result/190235210.png

sian my friend house upz

[shawntyq]

lol after see good freebies all continue the plan.its a cycle.lol

[justjohnnygamer]

so it seems every year we have tons of complaints, tons of unhappy users, and tons of bull**** from Starhub. And yet, the amount of subscribers do not decrease, there is no significant reason for Starhub to listen to us.

I picture this going on forever :s13:
Ad hoc complaints are dismissed as being isolated incidents. Only a united voice will be heard. Come join my speedtesting team by sending me a PM here:
Send a private message to justjohnnygamer (http://forums.hardwarezone.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=270798)

If your worried about joining anonymously, check out my post here:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?p=25977310#post25977310

[LoNgMaO]

When they learn like XEDO pushing blame on the game server...... Monkey SEE Monkey DO. When they are both monkey dunno when the third monkey going to do.

[largeresource]

starhub spend all the money on acquiring EPL
and left none to upgrade to a faster internet routers and bandwidth
so with the increase in subscriptions and contacts, all get clog up in a cholesterol fatty line

[suntzu]

You all must consolidate all your complaint via an ongoing online Petition.

1st step - Get at least 10 sign-up to support the online Petition

2nd step - Start a forum and get all MaxOnline, SingNet and PacNet folks to support OUR claim by posting speedtest result!

3rd step - Next, post on the Straits Time Online OR BEST is printed on the Newspaper forum. Address the complain to StarHub CEO, MR Terry Clontz.

KEY message to StarHub CEO Terry Clontz

Using FACTS supported by evidence to exert pressure on StarHub CEO - Starhub MaxOnline underperform as was highlighted by a number of users from Hardwarezone forum - Paste the thread URL. Paste the Link to the Online Petition as well

Praise SingNet and PacNet for their wonderful speed performance. Also link back this complaint to earlier incident where there was a forum argument btw StarHub and SingNet that there is no need for speed that is beyond 10Mbps as consumer cannot actually use it. Google search for this article.

Also bring in CASE saying that they can do something to protect consumer interest.

Bring in IDA as well saying the Regulator acan impose regulation like what the Korea regulator to protect the interest of consumer.

Bring everyone into the media discussion about the issue of Broadband Performance in Singapore.

Cheers!

Ad hoc complaints are dismissed as being isolated incidents. Only a united voice will be heard. Come join my speedtesting team by sending me a PM here:
Send a private message to justjohnnygamer (http://forums.hardwarezone.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=270798)

If your worried about joining anonymously, check out my post here:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?p=25977310#post25977310

[dan721]

You all must consolidate all your complaint via an ongoing online Petition.

1st step - Get at least 10 sign-up to support the online Petition

2nd step - Start a forum and get all MaxOnline, SingNet and PacNet folks to support OUR claim by posting speedtest result!

3rd step - Next, post on the Straits Time Online OR BEST is printed on the Newspaper forum. Address the complain to StarHub CEO, MR Terry Clontz.

KEY message to StarHub CEO Terry Clontz

Using FACTS supported by evidence to exert pressure on StarHub CEO - Starhub MaxOnline underperform as was highlighted by a number of users from Hardwarezone forum - Paste the thread URL. Paste the Link to the Online Petition as well

Praise SingNet and PacNet for their wonderful speed performance. Also link back this complaint to earlier incident where there was a forum argument btw StarHub and SingNet that there is no need for speed that is beyond 10Mbps as consumer cannot actually use it. Google search for this article.

Also bring in CASE saying that they can do something to protect consumer interest.

Bring in IDA as well saying the Regulator acan impose regulation like what the Korea regulator to protect the interest of consumer.

Bring everyone into the media discussion about the issue of Broadband Performance in Singapore.

Cheers!


Guys is there a petition for Singnet complain??

Here is how it goes....... I have been wif singnet broadband ever since the day it has been launched. I am very unhappy about the service. I have received a letter from Singnet to recontract wif no free gift at $29.90, therefore i went ahead. Now they have launched a promotion with free Ipod. Juz a difference of ard $100, i get a brand new 4GB ipod nano(ok blame it on the wrong timing)

Secondly, i wonder any other singnet users have experienced this, every night ard 11pm - 2pm, there is always disruption to the connection, for eg: lagness / disconnection. According to their technical officer, "Nothing is wrong on our side, we will send a technician down." The technician came to my house twice. For the first time he mixed up my residential phone line wif another user's phone service. As expected my phone service couldn't work, my internet couldn't work. Second time, he came down again and found nothing wrong.

Up to now i'm still experiencing frequent disconnection during that particular time slot. Juz imagine u are in the middle of a game and got disconnected. I'm still with around 1.5yrs of contract.

[suntzu]

Good! Please shoot your complain too. DC is one of the most teething issues face by DSL users.

Go and start a campaign on DC for SingNet!!!!

Guys is there a petition for Singnet complain??

Here is how it goes....... I have been wif singnet broadband ever since the day it has been launched. I am very unhappy about the service. I have received a letter from Singnet to recontract wif no free gift at $29.90, therefore i went ahead. Now they have launched a promotion with free Ipod. Juz a difference of ard $100, i get a brand new 4GB ipod nano(ok blame it on the wrong timing)

Secondly, i wonder any other singnet users have experienced this, every night ard 11pm - 2pm, there is always disruption to the connection, for eg: lagness / disconnection. According to their technical officer, "Nothing is wrong on our side, we will send a technician down." The technician came to my house twice. For the first time he mixed up my residential phone line wif another user's phone service. As expected my phone service couldn't work, my internet couldn't work. Second time, he came down again and found nothing wrong.

Up to now i'm still experiencing frequent disconnection during that particular time slot. Juz imagine u are in the middle of a game and got disconnected. I'm still with around 1.5yrs of contract.

[zeroex]

Well this thread is abt Speed / Bandwidth consistency..

U shd start another thread abt SIngnet ( or other ISP ) DC issues ...
Get some pple who are having the same issues and can complain together :)

[suntzu]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

thomasEE@starhub.com (thomasEE@starhub.com)


April 7, 2006
Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds

Firm denies this and suggests they switch to more costly plan

By Chua Hian Hou
GAMERS are complaining that sluggish StarHub broadband speeds are turning fleet-footed virtual commandos into zombie-like cannon fodder.

In online shooting games like CounterStrike and Battlefield2, players win by shooting other players while avoiding their return fire. All this action is tracked by a central game server, which receives and sends data from a gamer's computer. Delays in the transmission of this data - or 'lag' in Internet parlance - curbs a player's ability to win.

Complaints about Singapore's largest broadband Internet service provider (ISP), which serves 51 per cent of residential broadband subscribers, have surfaced at popular online hangouts like GameAxis and sgForums, and in interviews with gamers.

The Straits Times found significantly fewer complaints about SingNet, and none about Pacific Internet on these sites.

At GameAxis, a thread sarcastically titled 'StarHub is good for your gaming experience' has ballooned to 20 pages, filled with complaints about 'LagOnline' - a play on the name of StarHub's broadband service, MaxOnline.

Rival SingNet had previously highlighted this thread on its website.

One unhappy gamer is polytechnic student Eugene Sng, 20, who is upset that 'the hobby I love has become so frustrating.'

The MaxOnline 6500 subscriber who pays 'about $70' a month said he did not have lag problems when he used SingNet's broadband service previously.

'I've made 15 complaints to StarHub in the past four months, and each time they said they will do something about it. But there has been no improvement, and I can't do anything except 'tong' (Hokkien slang for suffer stoically) until my contract is up in five months.'

StarHub senior vice-president for IP services Thomas Ee dismissed complaints like Mr Sng's as 'few and far between', adding that 'speed can be subjective and we do not agree our connection is slower'.

The problem, he said, is likely to be the game server's inability to cope with the game's demands. Most game servers are run by individuals or gaming industry organisations, not by ISPs like StarHub.

No way, said commercial pilot and gamer Kenneth Tan, 34, who also heard this reply when he complained. 'How can this be true when SingNet or PacNet users don't face problems with the game server?' countered the MaxOnline 6500 user, who declined to take up StarHub's suggested solution to his woes: switching to a more expensive plan.

An expert familiar with Internet networking technology, Juniper Networks chief technology officer for Asia Pacific Andrew Coward, said StarHub's problem is network congestion, a common occurrence when there is insufficient bandwidth or hardware to cope with demand.

When too many users try to send data simultaneously in a congested network, some data will be delayed or even dropped, much like the problem gamers face.

'Congestion won't affect activities like surfing the Internet or movie downloads, but it is a problem for lag-sensitive activities like gaming,' he said.

This is borne out by the many subscribers drawn by StarHub's fast download speeds. Even as the gamers grouse, some admit they will stick with StarHub for its fantastic movie, music and software download capabilities.

What Mr Coward describes is the situation gamers face with StarHub, said Mr Reuben Conceicao, manager of World Cyber Games (WCG) Singapore CounterStrike champion Team Titans.

'The gaming community's issue with StarHub is that its connection speeds lack reliability and consistency, not the amount of data a StarHub user can download.'

The Titans are sponsored by SingNet, which also sponsors about 20 other WCG winners.

Mr Coward believes a solution is for StarHub to buy more hardware and provide more bandwidth, rather than for gamers to upgrade to one of its faster, more expensive plans.

Since upgrades cost money, this will happen only when the ISP feels compelled to do so - for example, if it starts losing large numbers of subscribers.
:s8:

[calvin_]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

thomasEE@starhub.com (thomasEE@starhub.com)
it's probably flooded by now.

[suntzu]

Well, no use to flood email to him.

He is very thick skin and sly person.

He can tell you he didn't short changed even in front of concrete evidence.

If u wanna write email, u must CC to

Attn to: thomasEE@starhub.com

CC to: terry@starhub.com and timothy@starhub.com




it's probably flooded by now.

[fantasyrulz]

used to have a very very very sluggish internet performance tht even surfing of yahoo also cant load properly.. play dota dc like siao... the ping is not constant 1 sometimes high sometimes 0% internet usage.. untill totally no internet at all sia wth ! then sibei dulan thought my old white color modem spoil so go use hub point redeem the new black color 1, reactivate my connection for the new modem then no problem liao... no lag at all even playing bf2, dota cs all no problem.... i think sometimes is due to the problem of modem or their side that required a net reactivation...

[calvin_]

Well, no use to flood email to him.

He is very thick skin and sly person.

He can tell you he didn't short changed even in front of concrete evidence.

If u wanna write email, u must CC to

Attn to: thomasEE@starhub.com

CC to: terry@starhub.com and timothy@starhub.com
lol can i ask who are you huh? how come you seem to know all the infocomm bigshots. in that case kind you raise the issue up to them since you seem to be inside the "inner circle".
we are like freaking out of the galaxy.

[suntzu]

Well, do you know that StarHub has very very bad track record dated many many years back!

StarHub CEO is aware but he can't do much because it will need lots of money to solve it. So will he give up his fat payout to fix your problem?

Do you know what is the cause? You have to ask Thomas EE why?

Saving money so that someone can have fatter bonus????

Giving all the crap excuses by pushing all the blame to congestion in overseas.

This lagging case has been there for many years and it will stay on for many more years to come.

This can only be fix BY YOU the consumer by sending wave and wave of complaints until everyone in Singapore knows!


lol can i ask who are you huh? how come you seem to know all the infocomm bigshots. in that case kind you raise the issue up to them since you seem to be inside the "inner circle".
we are like freaking out of the galaxy.

[calvin_]

actually their mobile service also very lousy. there was a period of time i couldn't make outgoing calls from 8pm to 11pm.

imagine i was in a saf camp trying to get a cab, it really got on my nerves. i emailed them, call them, but they never tell me what's wrong, just say situation elevated to relevant department and will look into it.

haiz. i had no choice but to brand StarHub as a company fixated on making money, and money only.

that time i walk past a StarHub retail shop, was looking around then i overheard the salesperson at the counter chit chatting.

he was saying something like they don't know they working so hard for what, cause here they are trying to help promote StarHub's service, but yet StarHub isn't doing its part to promote a better service. sometimes not because they work half hearted, but because they lost faith in their own product.

[suntzu]

Ya, StarHub Mobile service is damp bad.

My StarHub mobile phone will sometime roam to Maxis malaysia when I am at Tekong.

actually their mobile service also very lousy. there was a period of time i couldn't make outgoing calls from 8pm to 11pm.

imagine i was in a saf camp trying to get a cab, it really got on my nerves. i emailed them, call them, but they never tell me what's wrong, just say situation elevated to relevant department and will look into it.

haiz. i had no choice but to brand StarHub as a company fixated on making money, and money only.

that time i walk past a StarHub retail shop, was looking around then i overheard the salesperson at the counter chit chatting.

he was saying something like they don't know they working so hard for what, cause here they are trying to help promote StarHub's service, but yet StarHub isn't doing its part to promote a better service. sometimes not because they work half hearted, but because they lost faith in their own product.

[liangtam]

Use SingTel mobile lor. :D

[windwaver]

i think this is complete bs.

the problem with people is that they don't know how to find the right servers... usually servers based in thailand, japan and korea are ok, with japanese servers giving the best connections... should you connect to a server based in europe, australia or america, you'll surely experience lag... so simply avoid connecting to such servers

So this suggest Singnet's overseas connections are better? :s13:

[SandmanX]

Having been a loyal customer of SCV ever since they started the service, I have more than one complaint about the shoddy customer service and sporadic lag spikes I experience day in day out.

I'm using the basic package and eventhough they recently 'increased' the bandwith, I see no coherent or significant improvement in the download or upload speeds although there are times where it shines, of course.

Starhub's stubborn stand on this issue and insistence that users upgrade their packages is typical of an ISP already against the wall and up to its neck in complaints and disgruntled customers.

I'm seriously considering switching to SingNet but it's too much of a hassle. Besides, the intermittent lag spikes do not directly affect my online gameplay but it can be quite frustrating at times.

[jastan]

for past 3 weeks, this lag spikes affected me badly while playing WoW on Oceanic realm. the latency could shoot up to 1.2k during evening peak hrs.

Haiz...

[ninkuboy]

even during non-peak hours like now it's being ridiculously slow.

[coolgeek84]

My average ping rate for Unreal Tournament 2004 Server in San Fransisco server used to be around 220ms. Now it always averages around 260ms =( That s*cks big time. But one can't blame Starhub as it is indeed providing what it promised. Am on MOL Ultimate but using Docsis 2 modem which has max capability of 33Mbps. I received constant 27mbps+ speed on speedtest.com...

[darkmatt]

no problems for me leh... no spikes nth.. i host dota games also nobody complain lags...

[jaloon]

Pings & overseas speeds on Starhub MOL is crappy, but I cannot tolerate the DCs on DSL service which cannot be fixed such that it wouldnt disconnect.

[ginseng1]

April 7, 2006
Gamers upset about StarHub's sluggish broadband speeds

Firm denies this and suggests they switch to more costly plan




I'm on SH 100mbps plan. My download from Microsoft website is only about 400+ kbps throughout the day.

I also have SNBB 10mbps in my same house. My download from the same website using SNBB 10mbps plan gives me about 1300 kpbs consistently throughout the day.

Have been trying out for several months.

How to explain for such phonomenon:s11:

Am I shortchanged?

Didn't bother calling SH. Sure get all the usual crap from its staff. Dunno why people work for SH? No ethics at all in shortchanging its customes like me.

[liangtam]

I'm on SH 100mbps plan. My download from Microsoft website is only about 400+ kbps throughout the day.

I also have SNBB 10mbps in my same house. My download from the same website using SNBB 10mbps plan gives me about 1300 kpbs consistently throughout the day.

Have been trying out for several months.

How to explain for such phonomenon:s11:

Am I shortchanged?

Didn't bother calling SH. Sure get all the usual crap from its staff. Dunno why people work for SH? No ethics at all in shortchanging its customes like me.

Which modem?
Any cable, splitter corroded??

[nangka1]

****hub download fast only in the mornings. In the evenings can only get max 160kbps for my Ultimate account
But morning can shoot up to almost 1800 kbps...
Really ****hub...if I'm not on contract I would have jump ship by now.

[andrewys]

a lot of my friends are changing over to other ISP. Sad...

[Jamesykl]

Gaming is so laggy yesterday. Wonder whether it is because after PC show, a lot of new MOL subscribers and so eat up the bandwidth. Really bad.

a lot of my friends are changing over to other ISP. Sad...

[Cryptrus]

my plan ending, i also gg to change liao, my Ultimate is wee morning can hit 300, day time till late night is like 100-150..... last time juz started can get 400-700 whole day.... crap... jump ship time

[Jamesykl]

Which isp do you recommend????


my plan ending, i also gg to change liao, my Ultimate is wee morning can hit 300, day time till late night is like 100-150..... last time juz started can get 400-700 whole day.... crap... jump ship time

[icyHippo]

luckily i switch

[MrJacky]

I thought I was the only one suffering.

I used to be able to play Battlefield 2 on a wireless connection, but lately, none of the servers can give me a peaceful time. The other time my ping went from 200 to 1000 then went back again, and continued repeatedly.

I thought StarHub used a hamster on a wheel to run their Internet.

I'm thinking of switching to SingNet now. They got great offers at the same price.

[i0ri86]

I thought I was the only one suffering.

I used to be able to play Battlefield 2 on a wireless connection, but lately, none of the servers can give me a peaceful time. The other time my ping went from 200 to 1000 then went back again, and continued repeatedly.

I thought StarHub used a hamster on a wheel to run their Internet.

I'm thinking of switching to SingNet now. They got great offers at the same price.

Wut plan are u on?

[ohmygod1986]

Super Old Thread ...


WTF :s12::s12::s12:

[Jamesykl]

This connection to US game server sucks. New Zealand and Australia have much better broadband than us. Their ping to US server is less than 200. MOL really slow in overseas connection. Especially playing fps game, bot do not have the speed to run due to slow internet. And many disconnection intermittently aat ping 999. If MOL cannot improve its connection, I'll jump ship when my contract ends this October.:s27::s27::s27::(:(:(


Super Old Thread ...


WTF :s12::s12::s12:

[MrJacky]

This connection to US game server sucks. New Zealand and Australia have much better broadband than us. Their ping to US server is less than 200. MOL really slow in overseas connection. Especially playing fps game, bot do not have the speed to run due to slow internet. And many disconnection intermittently aat ping 999. If MOL cannot improve its connection, I'll jump ship when my contract ends this October.:s27::s27::s27::(:(:(
My ping to Japan, Taiwan and Thailand servers exceed 200. I have seen 500 before.

[realbum]

I'm using SH and playing WoW in Korea server.

From last week, I could not play game at all. Ping is up to 1200 ms. (previously it was around 120 ms)

Today I went SH service center. and claimed high ping rate. but they don;t even understand what is ping.
they just say like a recording machine about you are using 8 mbps plan but you cannot get this speed all the time. it depends on server blah blah.
I know I know. but I'm taking about ping rate. lagging is different story than downloading speed!

He left me alone. after 10mins he gave me PAC NET phone number. WTF is this?
I'm using SH not PAC NET. If they need to check something with PAC NET, they should do. not me!!!
He said, SH just re-selling PAC NET line. If I have problem with modem, they can help. but they cannot help about internet quality. it this make sense?
I'm totally upset. I will do whatever I can.

Anyone knows how to cancel SH plan without early termination fee? is there any government agency to help/protect customer?

I really want to switch. maybe SingNet ADSL is much better.

[Gluee00]

High charges quality not up to mark

[Nakedtoes]

My singnet ping for gamearena ping now over 300. last time below 150. Sicknet damed chee bye also.. starfuk also fuk up so what to choose now? :s27:

[Walk_Hard]

My singnet ping for gamearena ping now over 300. last time below 150. Sicknet damed chee bye also.. starfuk also fuk up so what to choose now? :s27:

I have the same problem too. All my aussie servers that I play on goes anywhere between 300-800+ ping.

It only started happening last week.

really frustrating.