Entry Level DSLR. Any suggestion?

[kitchionh]

Hi Everyone.

I'm new here.

I am looking at buying an entry level DSLR. I've gone to the John 3:16 shop in Funan and tried out Nikon D40X and Canon EOS 400D. I like the feel and grip of D40X better and thought that the view is a lot clearer than Canon 400D. Price wise, 400D is about S$150 more for standard kit.

My question is whilst I like the feel of Nikon D40X better, is it worth spending about S$1000 for it? I know about the standard downside for D40X in that it doesn't come with a AF motor for the lense and as such it is limited in terms of lense selection.

Many years ago, I own a Nikon F60 SLR (film-era) and had got a basic Canon SLR prior to that. I have been using Panasonic lumix prosumer camera since the digital age come into being.

My main purpose of upgrading to a DSLR is I want to take better quality picture of my kids and maybe some landscape, nature and architecture when I travel.

I read in dpreview that Nikon is not taking anymore orders for D40X in Japan. Does it mean that it will be discontinued and a newer model is coming up?

Should I consider D80 instead?

Thanks for reading and helping in advance.

Rgds,

[rahul49]

Go for a D80. It will save you money in long term as you wont be thinking of upgrading again one year down the line.

I see your point about liking the D40X grip. Nikon uses a denser polycarbonate material for its body. So it gives you a more solid grip. Canon has a plasticky feel but it has an advantage with lesser weight.

See if you can extend budget for D80 plus the 18-135 kit lens. Thats a very good kit lens and has a very useful focal length range. Later on add an SB600 flash and you will be all set to take the best of pictures. Rest depends on how much you can improve your photography skills.

Whatever decision you make, once you buy..forget about the hardware and just enjoy making photos.

[kitchionh]

Thanks Rahul49.

On the grip for Canon 400D, my little finger tends to slip off everytime I try to manouvre the camera around. Try to place the thumb on the rubber patch and the little finger slips off too.

D80 with kit lense 18-135mm cost about S$1500-S$1600, right?

Agree that hardware is just one thing. The rest depends on composition. More important is to enjoy taking pictures...

Rgds,

[iquest]

go for whichever camera u feel more comfortable with. only u can decide. both canon n nikon has got their own strong followings. both r good systems

[flamingshadow]

You don't have to just consider DSLRs from the two giants, give olympus, sony or even pentax a shot.

The four-thirds system (well to me, i'm sure some people disagree) as the advantage of the entire system being tailor made for the digital format, and because the CCD is slightly smaller than competing systems it allos for smaller, cheaper and more compact lenses. Some people complain about the small CCD producing a lot of noise but I personally find it comparable to a D40, of course you can't beat the Cmos on the 400D lar...

Sony cameras are decent but being decendent from the old Konica Minolta models, it still has very lousy AF in lowlight conditions.

and the Pentax K100 is slightly more expensive than your typical entry-level DSLR but it has features comparable to the next range such as the D80 and 40D, so if you're thinking of going beyong entry -level, the K100 is a very good alternative to a Canon or Nikon, and much cheaper too.

[22b0rn0t2b]

and the Pentax K100 is slightly more expensive than your typical entry-level DSLR but it has features comparable to the next range such as the D80 and 40D, so if you're thinking of going beyong entry -level, the K100 is a very good alternative to a Canon or Nikon, and much cheaper too.

I am not sure why Pentax is not spoken about these days when their products are so damn good.

Pentax K100D Super (note the Super) is the best entry level DSLR today (if 6.0 megapixel does'nt bother you). It is the best in terms of features and price(S$930 with 18-55mm lens). Check out the reviews and you'll know what I am speaking about. I've used Pentax's film SLR for so long and never had issued. I got a feel of K100D Super at Sitex and it felt real good.

Other 'entry levelDSLRs' are simply no match for this one. If you prefer to wait then you can wait till Feb when a 10 megapixel version of K100 D Super (K200D Super ??) is due.

[VelociRaptor]

Prob with pentax is that lenes and other acessories are kinda hard to come by and may be more ex. Still the price vs features for a k10 is hard to beat...

[EJB]

My advice is go for either Canon/Nikon, the rest of the camera makers, are too small a player no matter how good their products are. It's so hard to find accessories and lenses for the other makers as compared to Nikon/Canon.

As for noise on the 4/3 sensors, it can get pretty bad above ISO200. The sensor is 50% smaller than Nikon's and 40% smaller than canon's. It was a big hype when 4/3 came out and launch, promising that sooner later everybody will follow 4/3.

Look at the development now. It's no more than a hype. Considering other makers is really quite a waste of time.

Sony's body is plastic and you can try holding it, I don't think you'll like it. Once you put on the grip, it looks even worse.

[kitchionh]

Thanks all.

I think I'll get Nikon D40x (as long as the stock don't run out). Nikon D80 is too big and heavy to lug around esp when I've got 2 kids (5 yrs old and 1 yr old) running around and lots of stuff to carry when we go out.

Rgds,

[staedtler_07]

How's the offer for your D40x? I'm thinking of getting one too.

[blacksmith]

considered d40x as well and then finally got a 400D :)

[kitchionh]

D40X is quoted at about S$1000 in several places. The big scale electronic shops selling at S$1188.

Actually, I may get D40 instead of D40X. Heard that the key diff is just the 10mps vs 6 mps. Unless you are going to blow your pics to big big, else, why need 10mps? Does it help in improviing the pic quality??

D40 is about S$200 cheaper, I think.

[Pokémon]

Heard that the key diff is just the 10mps vs 6 mps. Unless you are going to blow your pics to big big, else, why need 10mps? Does it help in improviing the pic quality??

With 10MP, you have more working room for cropping your photos, and still maintain quality for printing.

At times, I would really wish for 10MP on my D70s...

It's unless you're sure you don't like to do any PP, then go ahead with the D40 than D40x.

[Pokémon]

By the way, D60 (replacement model for D40x) could be on its way, but that's provided if you could wait till perhaps Mar/Apr 2008.

[Nakedtoes]

Get the D40X($980) or D40($850) bah.. Price from MS color..

[fur_blur]

Hopefully i am still in time to give my 2 cents. Firstly, TS must take note that D40X can't use ANY Nikon AF lenses EXCEPT AF-S lenses. Even so, there may be cheap AF-S lenses, but the range is limited. Compared to 400D, which is more versatile as lenses are actually backward and foward compatible you are more likely to find the lens required for your future shooting preference.

Secondly, if brand loyalty to Nikon is the issue, then perhaps you should consider D80 as its usable with most nikon lens hence very suitable if you want to take photography as a long term hobby.

thirdly, if money is an issue, do consider 2nd hand d80 as its now relatively easier to get as more ppl are upgrading. for more information, you can view it at www.clubsnap.com (http://www.clubsnap.com)

[kitchionh]

Thank you all for comments and advice. Much appreciated.

I've just bot D40x kit (S$980 incl GST) + 55-200mm VR (S$399 incl GST) + Tamrac sling bag (S$68) from TK Foto. The senior Mr. Tan is a very nice guy. Comes with 2G SD card and free tripod (though the tripod looks plasticky and cheap)

Reason:
D40 kit cost S$850 (out of stock anyway at TK). Figured that it is worth paying an extra S$130 for 4 extra mps. Sorry, I'm just a layman and succumbed to the kiasu syndrome.

Didn't take D80 because it is too bulky for me (as said, main purpose is to take it out to shoot the kids and for leisure travel.) So, D80 will be too cumbersome for me. Also, price for D80 kit is S$1620.

Honestly, I could have stick with my existing 5 mps Panasonic Lumix prosumer, but thought that I just wanted to try DSLR or to relive an interest that I had in the past with film SLR many years ago.

Thanks again.

[EJB]

Thank you all for comments and advice. Much appreciated.

I've just bot D40x kit (S$980 incl GST) + 55-200mm VR (S$399 incl GST) + Tamrac sling bag (S$68) from TK Foto. The senior Mr. Tan is a very nice guy. Comes with 2G SD card and free tripod (though the tripod looks plasticky and cheap)

Reason:
D40 kit cost S$850 (out of stock anyway at TK). Figured that it is worth paying an extra S$130 for 4 extra mps. Sorry, I'm just a layman and succumbed to the kiasu syndrome.

Didn't take D80 because it is too bulky for me (as said, main purpose is to take it out to shoot the kids and for leisure travel.) So, D80 will be too cumbersome for me. Also, price for D80 kit is S$1620.

Honestly, I could have stick with my existing 5 mps Panasonic Lumix prosumer, but thought that I just wanted to try DSLR or to relive an interest that I had in the past with film SLR many years ago.

Thanks again.
You talk too much, go out shoot and post pictures, quick!!! :s13:

[arips]

Thank you all for comments and advice. Much appreciated.

I've just bot D40x kit (S$980 incl GST) + 55-200mm VR (S$399 incl GST) + Tamrac sling bag (S$68) from TK Foto. The senior Mr. Tan is a very nice guy. Comes with 2G SD card and free tripod (though the tripod looks plasticky and cheap)

Reason:
D40 kit cost S$850 (out of stock anyway at TK). Figured that it is worth paying an extra S$130 for 4 extra mps. Sorry, I'm just a layman and succumbed to the kiasu syndrome.

Didn't take D80 because it is too bulky for me (as said, main purpose is to take it out to shoot the kids and for leisure travel.) So, D80 will be too cumbersome for me. Also, price for D80 kit is S$1620.

Honestly, I could have stick with my existing 5 mps Panasonic Lumix prosumer, but thought that I just wanted to try DSLR or to relive an interest that I had in the past with film SLR many years ago.

Thanks again.

wow! so whats your total damage? Thinking of getting a Nikon D40X or an Canon EOS400D.

I'm just a beginner photographer, and money is quite an issue. But this thread has provided much positive reviews abt these 2 models. Any idea whats the going price for these ntry level units and what kits should a beginner get to go with them? Total cost would be? Need to budget .. thanks!:s11:

[kitchionh]

Hi hi,

First attempt of my new D40X from my house window looking towards the city. Rested cam on window ledge for 3s exposure. Not much of a composition but just wanted to try the technicalities.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22552862@N05/2174711107/

Rgds,

[EJB]

Good try, keep it up.

[kitchionh]

Thanks for the encouragement EJB.

I'm trying out shooting my kids indoor at night and am having some problems getting it right.

I don't like to use the built-in flash because it gives a very flat feel (i know some may suggest getting a SB600 or SB800). I rather play around with exposure and aperture first.

That leads to the point about whether would a Nikon 50mm f/1.8D help in such situation because of the ability to widen the aperture at close up range to allow more light to enter and not slowing down the shutter speed too much such that you get a blur image?

Also, on white balancing, I realise that if I set myd40x to auto, again, indoor shoots are no good. I need to choose between flourescent or incandescent and the result is flourescent gives a nicer yellowish look while incandescent gives a whiter look. I thot it should be the opposite??

Alternatively, I know I can up the ISO and I think it should be about 400 using hte 18-55mm kit lens. Anything above that gives a bit of noise when zoom in.

Rgds,

[DigDub]

Thanks for the encouragement EJB.

I'm trying out shooting my kids indoor at night and am having some problems getting it right.

I don't like to use the built-in flash because it gives a very flat feel (i know some may suggest getting a SB600 or SB800). I rather play around with exposure and aperture first.

That leads to the point about whether would a Nikon 50mm f/1.8D help in such situation because of the ability to widen the aperture at close up range to allow more light to enter and not slowing down the shutter speed too much such that you get a blur image?

Also, on white balancing, I realise that if I set myd40x to auto, again, indoor shoots are no good. I need to choose between flourescent or incandescent and the result is flourescent gives a nicer yellowish look while incandescent gives a whiter look. I thot it should be the opposite??

Alternatively, I know I can up the ISO and I think it should be about 400 using hte 18-55mm kit lens. Anything above that gives a bit of noise when zoom in.

Rgds,
you can get a sb400 first. its rather cheap at $200+ only.

[kitchionh]

you can get a sb400 first. its rather cheap at $200+ only.

Thanks Digidub. Is SB400 fully compatible with Nikon D40X?

[DigDub]

Thanks Digidub. Is SB400 fully compatible with Nikon D40X?
yes, it fully compatible. in fact i think it was made for the d40/x as it is the only camera that can control the sb400 flash manually from the camera itself. :)

[EJB]

yes, it fully compatible. in fact i think it was made for the d40/x as it is the only camera that can control the sb400 flash manually from the camera itself. :)
SB-400 is fully usable on all DSLRs that supports i-TTL. The SB-400 has no manual controls and relies from the TTL readings from the DSLRs.

All DSLRs to my best of knowledge, provides a Manual metering mode, the SB-400 like the SB-600 and SB-800 series, will calculate the flash output based on the readings accordingly.


For the SB-400, my recommendations would be that it's nice for a travel flash as opposed to the SB-800/SB-600's size, it's good enough for very casual usage due to it's limited flash power. If you intend to take an event with it, prepare lots of AA batteries. It will be drained dry in no time with just 2 x AA batteries per use.

[DigDub]

SB-400 is fully usable on all DSLRs that supports i-TTL. The SB-400 has no manual controls and relies from the TTL readings from the DSLRs.

All DSLRs to my best of knowledge, provides a Manual metering mode, the SB-400 like the SB-600 and SB-800 series, will calculate the flash output based on the readings accordingly.


For the SB-400, my recommendations would be that it's nice for a travel flash as opposed to the SB-800/SB-600's size, it's good enough for very casual usage due to it's limited flash power. If you intend to take an event with it, prepare lots of AA batteries. It will be drained dry in no time with just 2 x AA batteries per use.
even though the sb400 flash has no manual control on the flash unit itself, it can still be controlled on the d40/x using the menus inside the camera, which i understand is the only camera that is able to do so.

[EJB]

even though the sb400 flash has no manual control on the flash unit itself, it can still be controlled on the d40/x using the menus inside the camera, which i understand is the only camera that is able to do so.
What controls are you talking about? The flash is totally automatic and cannot be controlled in any manner, not even for CLS.

[kitchionh]

I just bot SB-400 for S$190. Amazing results. Thanks all.

[Jannnn]

Get the D40X($980) or D40($850) bah.. Price from MS color..
if your choices is between the both.. I'll recommend you to pay $130 more for a 10.2 megapixel of D40x instead of 6 megapixel D40..

Personally I compare Nikno D40x and Canon 400D and end up I bought Sony Alpha 100 (a modification from former Konica Minolta 5D).. Due to A100 offering a few point that win over the rest.

- Sensor cleaner during on and off
- Built-in SuperSteady Shot (All lens mounted will enjoy shake free shots, no need to pay more for IS or VR lens)
- Great built (grip and feel)
- Direct Range Optimization (which saves you time in bracketing and edit in PhotoShop)
- Longer Range kit lens (18-70mm, great for newbies)
- If you are rich, go for the Sony Carl Zeiss lens

The A200 is coming out in 1 or 2 weeks time. Do go down to Cathay Photo or MS Colour to test out the set when its available!

[Dearboy87]

if your choices is between the both.. I'll recommend you to pay $130 more for a 10.2 megapixel of D40x instead of 6 megapixel D40..

Personally I compare Nikno D40x and Canon 400D and end up I bought Sony Alpha 100 (a modification from former Konica Minolta 5D).. Due to A100 offering a few point that win over the rest.

- Sensor cleaner during on and off
- Built-in SuperSteady Shot (All lens mounted will enjoy shake free shots, no need to pay more for IS or VR lens)
- Great built (grip and feel)
- Direct Range Optimization (which saves you time in bracketing and edit in PhotoShop)
- Longer Range kit lens (18-70mm, great for newbies)
- If you are rich, go for the Sony Carl Zeiss lens

The A200 is coming out in 1 or 2 weeks time. Do go down to Cathay Photo or MS Colour to test out the set when its available!


come on.. i know u might be a promoter.. but u are definitely not a photographer.. and please don't post all misleading things here.. thanks..:s7:

[Jannnn]

come on.. i know u might be a promoter.. but u are definitely not a photographer.. and please don't post all misleading things here.. thanks..:s7:

Oh ya from a previous post you act say this..

Look at this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dearboy87
Is like talking bout my OLD FUJI F31FD 6.3mp only.

Compare to Fuji F40fd or latest Fuji F50FD.

Fuji F31FD, even thou lower megapixel, lower ISO compare to F50FD.

The image quality is still top notch, better than the other 2.

Who say old things is bad?

So I found out about this...
OLD FUJI F31FD 6.3mp you mean this??

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/digital/m/28331682/

Compare to Fuji F40fd or latest Fuji F50FD. you mean this???

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/dig...0fd/index.html

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/dig...0fd/index.html

So you are comaparing DSLR with this 3 cameras?? ISO??? Do you really know what is ISO for???

[Jannnn]

Thanks.. so you are comparing 3 digital camera with DSLR on this thread? http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1841554

how pro is that!

You were comparing D40 or D80 to buy as your 1st DSLR? no wonder you missed out D40x because you do not know that D40x is the improved version of D40.. oh sorry about that, i forgot you just sold away your F31FD and got your D80 just less than a month? as referred to http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=331399

and wanna get your 1st lens and you wanna get 50mm prime f1.8? prefer line dancing moving forward and backward as you take photo? get a zoom as your 1st lens la.. as referred to http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=338114

[nuclear_pup]

Hi hi,

First attempt of my new D40X from my house window looking towards the city. Rested cam on window ledge for 3s exposure. Not much of a composition but just wanted to try the technicalities.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22552862@N05/2174711107/

Rgds,

Keep on shooting !!!!! :)

[ReiszRie]

I am not sure why Pentax is not spoken about these days when their products are so damn good.

Pentax K100D Super (note the Super) is the best entry level DSLR today (if 6.0 megapixel does'nt bother you). It is the best in terms of features and price(S$930 with 18-55mm lens). Check out the reviews and you'll know what I am speaking about. I've used Pentax's film SLR for so long and never had issued. I got a feel of K100D Super at Sitex and it felt real good.

Other 'entry levelDSLRs' are simply no match for this one. If you prefer to wait then you can wait till Feb when a 10 megapixel version of K100 D Super (K200D Super ??) is due.

its about the lenses and not really about the bodies...

given the development of Pentax, it'll limit your choices when upgrading to a higher range body unless you're fine with discarding lenses to go for higher end bodies from major brands.

[ReiszRie]

Oh ya from a previous post you act say this..

Look at this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dearboy87
Is like talking bout my OLD FUJI F31FD 6.3mp only.

Compare to Fuji F40fd or latest Fuji F50FD.

Fuji F31FD, even thou lower megapixel, lower ISO compare to F50FD.

The image quality is still top notch, better than the other 2.

Who say old things is bad?

So I found out about this...
OLD FUJI F31FD 6.3mp you mean this??

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/digital/m/28331682/

Compare to Fuji F40fd or latest Fuji F50FD. you mean this???

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/dig...0fd/index.html

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/dig...0fd/index.html

So you are comaparing DSLR with this 3 cameras?? ISO??? Do you really know what is ISO for???



in terms of image quality, the F31fd is still marginally better at higher ISOs above 400 (esp. 800)

thats a plus for P&S cameras as indoor shots will be fairly common and indoor lighting conditions generally warrants a higher ISO to counter-act camera shake

[ReiszRie]

if your choices is between the both.. I'll recommend you to pay $130 more for a 10.2 megapixel of D40x instead of 6 megapixel D40..



Personally I compare Nikno D40x and Canon 400D and end up I bought Sony Alpha 100 (a modification from former Konica Minolta 5D).. Due to A100 offering a few point that win over the rest.



- Sensor cleaner during on and off

- Built-in SuperSteady Shot (All lens mounted will enjoy shake free shots, no need to pay more for IS or VR lens)

- Great built (grip and feel)

- Direct Range Optimization (which saves you time in bracketing and edit in PhotoShop)

- Longer Range kit lens (18-70mm, great for newbies)

- If you are rich, go for the Sony Carl Zeiss lens



The A200 is coming out in 1 or 2 weeks time. Do go down to Cathay Photo or MS Colour to test out the set when its available!


higher mega-pixels equates to a larger emphasise on techniques and lesser room for errors, being a free-lance photographer for commercial shoots, i use 5 mega-pixel for shoots rather than the full 10 mega-pixel on my D200

as for Sony, i'll say they're serious about their range of DSLRs but their current lens range and pricing for them would be a major down-side for serious enthusiasts, unless you're fine with just the kit lenses

major camera makes will always have a larger range of available lenses and prices due to choices from 3rd party makes and their legacy

[Jannnn]

in terms of image quality, the F31fd is still marginally better at higher ISOs above 400 (esp. 800)

thats a plus for P&S cameras as indoor shots will be fairly common and indoor lighting conditions generally warrants a higher ISO to counter-act camera shake
but nevertheless, DC should not be compared to DSLR..

does the DC produce acceptable noise at ISO 800?

[ReiszRie]

Thanks.. so you are comparing 3 digital camera with DSLR on this thread? http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1841554

how pro is that!

You were comparing D40 or D80 to buy as your 1st DSLR? no wonder you missed out D40x because you do not know that D40x is the improved version of D40.. oh sorry about that, i forgot you just sold away your F31FD and got your D80 just less than a month? as referred to http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=331399

and wanna get your 1st lens and you wanna get 50mm prime f1.8? prefer line dancing moving forward and backward as you take photo? get a zoom as your 1st lens la.. as referred to http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=338114

theres no difference between a P&S and a DSLR, they're both cameras and they both serve the same purpose

D40X is comsidered an "improved" version to fit into the mass mega-pixel rush, not because the D40 is an "inferior" machine, therefore the D40X is an "improved" version for the purpose of marketing

a prime lens is most effectively for improving your techniques as you have to adhere to a single focal length for composition and angle, therefore i really do recommend a prime lens if you're really interested in making your shots look better, of course if you're just buying a DSLR for vacation shots, a zoom lens such as an 18-200 would be a better choice.

[ReiszRie]

but nevertheless, DC should not be compared to DSLR..

does the DC produce acceptable noise at ISO 800?

and why so? :)

aren't they both cameras? don't they both take photos?

both are equally capable at taking great shots :)

yes F31fd does have acceptable luminance and chroma noise level for general shots

before the advent of all the "noise" fever, we've been taking shots with film and early digital systems which produces noise levels that you'll spit at these days, yet those are some of the best moments.... photography really isn't all that technical

[Jannnn]

and why so? :)

aren't they both cameras? don't they both take photos?

both are equally capable at taking great shots :)

yes F31fd does have acceptable luminance and chroma noise level for general shots

before the advent of all the "noise" fever, we've been taking shots with film and early digital systems which produces noise levels that you'll spit at these days, yet those are some of the best moments.... photography really isn't all that technical
maybe you are right to some extent, well lets just leave the manufacturer to do the technical part.. we shall share our experience in shooting instead of comparing camera systems as well as specs.. really tired of it, so we should stop here shall we?