Referees and Red Cards

[1920_me]

Why do refs find it so easy to brandish out Red Card? Dont they realise that red-cards massively change the complexion of the games and could cost the teams millions?

In my opinion, red cards should be the last option for the refs, provided they give the players ample warning and if he feels he will be unable to control the players behaviour, then he should give out the card.

Red-cards are given out too easily these days.Although, the Football governing body has to take much of the blame for setting stupid rules.


1) Yellow-cards for removing your kit. (still dont understand why is that so)
2) Red-cards for any kind of contact made or intention to make contact

[poring24]

yellow cards for removing your top is because its offensive to some religions

but still, rules are rules, the referee's decision is final, and we can't really blame the referee if the book says that so and so is illegal and is a straight red offence

[laksanice]

Sometimes it is e intent of the player. In a fast paced match, the player can be lazy and leave a leg out there but the opponent can be seriously injured by that. IMO, studs up and 2 footed challenge is a red card offence, other than that, it is really down to the referee.

But then again, with so many actors and divers on the pitch, e ref job is not easy. You win some, you lose some. Over the course of the whole season, it will even out I guess.

[Jackson Ng Ghim Pheng]

Seriously there is no need to celebrate a goal by taking clothes off.............

[Asakura]

be4 it was deemed offensive,
taking off the clothes to celebrate was much a fashion

[StarSeeker]

Seriously there is no need to celebrate a goal by taking clothes off.............

Maybe some of the players wanna show off their 6-pack for all the hours in the gym.

[CanIsayNo]

i thought fifa or whoever that came up with the rule on the shirt was due to the fact that lots of players love to have another shirt underneath their jersey which may bear some offensive message

[OKK77]

i thought fifa or whoever that came up with the rule on the shirt was due to the fact that lots of players love to have another shirt underneath their jersey which may bear some offensive message

Nope, if you just lift your jersey off to show off the message underneath, there is nothing cautionable with that. If the message is offensive in some nature, some post-match action will probably happen.

The logic behind this rule: you don't need to take the jersey off to celebrate a goal, so don't.

A little silly, I would say.

[OKK77]

Another controversial red card today. Terry's tackle was fractionally late and high but I don't think it should be more than a yellow and a talking. Graham Poll agrees with Phil Dowd but I guess Scolari has some reason to be really unhappy.

[Asakura]

some refs jus love to show whos boss. haha

[Yellowfin]

If the tackle is deem dangerous then a red card should be warrant but the referee should be consistence in this during the whole match.

[AndreFLo]

Terry shld have seen it coming. To be honest he has already got away with dangerous tackles alot of times already

[hiei02]

i don't get the logic that taking off the top is offensive to some religions. then what about the jersey-swapping after the match? you might as well book all 22 players.

[batman_888]

some of the tackles r career threatening... deserved a red card...

[Jackson Ng Ghim Pheng]

John Terry was going for the ball but misjudge the ball direction

but okay not much complain about that red card I though he didn't need to slide tackle Osman anyway.

[lyfeforce]

2) Red-cards for any kind of contact made or intention to make contact

This is football. Of course, there'll be contact! They're not playing chess, you know? Very vague rule.

[Jackson Ng Ghim Pheng]

DISCIPLINARY STORM
Angry Arsenal blasts former referee Poll

Arsene Wenger has launched a scathing attack on former referee Graham Poll and has described him as an embarrassment following comments made this week.

Speaking on Setanta Sports on their Football Matters, Poll backed up Howard Webb's decision to send off Emmanuel Adebayor against Liverpool - but it was his analysis of John Terry's red card at Everton that angered Arsenal manager Wenger.

Poll, a former FIFA referee who retired in 2007, suggested that referees could be influenced by the furore that comes with sending off the England captain.

"For me it was embarrassing when you listen to that," Wenger said. "They ask whether it was a sending off or not. He says you have to consider that you are sending off the captain of the national team.

"What has that got to do with the rulebook? The rulebook doesn't look at passports. When you listen to that it is embarrassing for the referees.

"Is it a sending off or not? Are you from England or not from England? Are you 17 or 30? It has nothing to do with that.

"It is a big concern when you here the national number one referee talk like that."

Wenger admits his faith in referees has been tested by Poll's comments.

"I do not think (they are taking reputations into account) but when I hear statements like that, it makes you change your mind," he added.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=605099&sec=england&cc=4716

I remember that he himself send off John Terry without any hesitation During the 06/07 season against Spurs Where Chelsea is the Away Team. Wonder why he make such comment I don't understand judging from his sending off (controversial 2nd yellow card) of John Terry Last time.

He didn't consider not sending off the national team captain himself that time and now make such a comment that lead to people thinking that Refs take reputation into consideration when dishing out yellow card / red card

[ahgohgoh]

DISCIPLINARY STORM
Angry Arsenal blasts former referee Poll

Arsene Wenger has launched a scathing attack on former referee Graham Poll and has described him as an embarrassment following comments made this week.

Speaking on Setanta Sports on their Football Matters, Poll backed up Howard Webb's decision to send off Emmanuel Adebayor against Liverpool - but it was his analysis of John Terry's red card at Everton that angered Arsenal manager Wenger.

Poll, a former FIFA referee who retired in 2007, suggested that referees could be influenced by the furore that comes with sending off the England captain.

"For me it was embarrassing when you listen to that," Wenger said. "They ask whether it was a sending off or not. He says you have to consider that you are sending off the captain of the national team.

"What has that got to do with the rulebook? The rulebook doesn't look at passports. When you listen to that it is embarrassing for the referees.

"Is it a sending off or not? Are you from England or not from England? Are you 17 or 30? It has nothing to do with that.

"It is a big concern when you here the national number one referee talk like that."

Wenger admits his faith in referees has been tested by Poll's comments.

"I do not think (they are taking reputations into account) but when I hear statements like that, it makes you change your mind," he added.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=605099&sec=england&cc=4716

I remember that he himself send off John Terry without any hesitation During the 06/07 season against Spurs Where Chelsea is the Away Team. Wonder why he make such comment I don't understand judging from his sending off (controversial 2nd yellow card) of John Terry Last time.

He didn't consider not sending off the national team captain himself that time and now make such a comment that lead to people thinking that Refs take reputation into consideration when dishing out yellow card / red card

i wanted to post this in this thread... u beat me to it :)

i really think it's an astonishing comment by poll... arsene is right... u send off players because they did something worthy of a red card... not because of whether they are captain or fan fav or what...

makes u wonder if every referee are the same...

but then, i guess that means referees are also human beings...

[lyfeforce]

Have any of you tried being in charge of a game? I have, and let me tell you. It isn't the most comfortable job in the world.

[Takechan]

ah, try being referee for nearly twenty short street soccer matches in a row, while the last one was forced to end abruptly because two players clashed and caused a serious head injury for one..

:(

[Kiwi8]

The problem is not really with the referees, but with the lack of video technology to help the referees.

[ahboon_77]

take off jersey will get caution.
take off shorts no problem right? hahahaa.

[Jackson Ng Ghim Pheng]

The problem is not really with the referees, but with the lack of video technology to help the referees.

Michael Platini claim that Video Replay cause alot of delay and remove the human factor which is quite nonsensical really as the ref can have a instant view of what happened instantly from the touch line and make a decision within in like 30 seconds and it does not remove the human factor at all as we still need the ref on the pitch for decision making.

Appeals for Major decision like 2nd yellow card, Red card, Goalmouth action, ball cross over the line or not, Violent play off the ball etc should be allow.

[arowana80]

Michael Platini claim that Video Replay cause alot of delay and remove the human factor which is quite nonsensical really as the ref can have a instant view of what happened instantly from the touch line and make a decision within in like 30 seconds and it does not remove the human factor at all as we still need the ref on the pitch for decision making.

Appeals for Major decision like 2nd yellow card, Red card, Goalmouth action, ball cross over the line or not, Violent play off the ball etc should be allow.

how is he going to made a decision with an instant view(of wat?) if video tech is not official? without video tech. wat u use to backup the appeal? cash?

[ahgohgoh]

how is he going to made a decision with an instant view(of wat?) if video tech is not official? without video tech. wat u use to backup the appeal? cash?

what he meant is use video tech for appeal...

[arowana80]

what he meant is use video tech for appeal...

of cos. u got to see y cos joke.t got sent off recently

[1920_me]

I know Scholes red-card was un-questionable.

But, considering that a Penalty had been given, the double whammy of red-card and penalty basically ended the game last night.

I think among most of the team sports, football is the easiest to reduce the team by a player and it does not serve a purpose for equal competition.Red-card should be the last option if everything else fails.

[SpikyOyster]

Scholes red is due to rule number 5 of the following section:

Sending-Off Offences
A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red
card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
1. is guilty of serious foul play
2. is guilty of violent conduct
3. spits at an opponent or any other person
4. denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a
goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving
towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick
or a penalty kick
6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
7. receives a second caution in the same match

This is taken from page 39 of Laws of the game 2007 / 2008

[Kiwi8]

Scholes red is due to rule number 5 of the following section:

Sending-Off Offences
A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red
card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
1. is guilty of serious foul play
2. is guilty of violent conduct
3. spits at an opponent or any other person
4. denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a
goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving
towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick
or a penalty kick
6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
7. receives a second caution in the same match

This is taken from page 39 of Laws of the game 2007 / 2008
Should be rule 4 instead.

[SpikyOyster]

yellow cards for removing your top is because its offensive to some religions

but still, rules are rules, the referee's decision is final, and we can't really blame the referee if the book says that so and so is illegal and is a straight red offence


According to the law of game page 41

Decision 6
A player who removes his jersey when celebrating a goal must be
cautioned for unsporting behaviour

This is the official reason.

[SpikyOyster]

Should be rule 4 instead.

Yes u r right. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

[SpikyOyster]

I know Scholes red-card was un-questionable.

But, considering that a Penalty had been given, the double whammy of red-card and penalty basically ended the game last night.

I think among most of the team sports, football is the easiest to reduce the team by a player and it does not serve a purpose for equal competition.Red-card should be the last option if everything else fails.

Penalty is given because it happens in the penalty box. If it is outside a free kick will be given. If there is no penalty or free kick given, u r basically encouraging players to have a go at someone who is going to score.

[Jordan]

Both penalty and sending off has to come in this case. If not, you will see a goal-bound attempt deliberately blocked with hands all the time, if the offence does not come with sending off.

You can't have the cake and eat it as well. Fine, if you dun want the player to be send off, then the "blocked" goal should count, just like goal-tending in basketball.

[Kiwi8]

No doubt, a red card has to be brandished at the deliberate handball used to stop a goal-bound shot, otherwise every team will be looking to stop goals this way. Penalties are not a good enough deterrent since they are still a better alternative to letting the goal-bound shot go in. :s22:

[1920_me]

You can't have the cake and eat it as well. Fine, if you dun want the player to be send off, then the "blocked" goal should count, just like goal-tending in basketball.

Yeah, there was no questioning the decision. The ref got it perfectly right based on the law.

With regards to your suggestion about the goal-tending. Something like that, would be a interesting option...

How much does it take to get dejected from the court in Basketball?

[chengsun]

Yeah, there was no questioning the decision. The ref got it perfectly right based on the law.

With regards to your suggestion about the goal-tending. Something like that, would be a interesting option...

How much does it take to get dejected from the court in Basketball?
iirc, 6 personal fouls, or 2 technical fouls.

[anfielder]

iirc, 6 personal fouls, or 2 technical fouls.

6 personal fouls = foul out. doesn't happen often because of unlimited substitutions. coaches will bring off the player when he gets into foul trouble.

[ahgohgoh]

i was shocked to see the whole chunk of rule being copied and pasted lol so on the ball...

i see where 1920 is coming from because it wasn't a physical foul it was a deliberate handball but rules are rules ... scholes was just unlucky i think... oh well... should have put his hands on the back, jump and close his eyes

[lyfeforce]

Scholes instinctively put up his hands to protect his face, as most people would. However, as most of you have pointed out correctly, he did obstruct the ball from going in and that's a "by the book" offence. So he was duly sent off.

Now, as for Rooney I do admit that it seems rather harsh. Granted, throwing the ball in such a aggressive manner would warrant normally a card. But the referee should have bear in mind that Rooney was already on a yellow card. Issuing another would greatly put the affected team at a disadvantage.

But hindsight is always 20/20. We can critique the referee's decisions all we want but we can't be sure we wouldn't have done the same in that same situation.

[anfielder]

A sending off/penalty decision in the Pool-Villa match as well. This one was rather harsh too.

[anfielder]

Scholes instinctively put up his hands to protect his face, as most people would. However, as most of you have pointed out correctly, he did obstruct the ball from going in and that's a "by the book" offence. So he was duly sent off.

Now, as for Rooney I do admit that it seems rather harsh. Granted, throwing the ball in such a aggressive manner would warrant normally a card. But the referee should have bear in mind that Rooney was already on a yellow card. Issuing another would greatly put the affected team at a disadvantage.

But hindsight is always 20/20. We can critique the referee's decisions all we want but we can't be sure we wouldn't have done the same in that same situation.

I agree with your assessment of Rooney's red card. Throwing the ball with such great velocity surely warrants a yellow card under normal circumstances. But a talking-to may have been sufficient in this case.

[lyfeforce]

A sending off/penalty decision in the Pool-Villa match as well. This one was rather harsh too.

The sending off was definitely harsh but the jury's still out on the penalty decision. Frankly, I'm not too sure about it myself. I need to examine the replays to be somewhat sure, provided the angles are adequately well placed.

[1920_me]

The sending off was definitely harsh but the jury's still out on the penalty decision. Frankly, I'm not too sure about it myself. I need to examine the replays to be somewhat sure, provided the angles are adequately well placed.

Yet again, an opponent gets sent-off against pool...it has happened far too many times against them. But, last night, it made no difference to the result.

[lyfeforce]

Yet again, an opponent gets sent-off against pool...it has happened far too many times against them. But, last night, it made no difference to the result.

It definitely made a difference to our goal difference. :D

I don't think our players go out with the intention to get people sent off. It just happens to be a coincidence that most of the red cards this season seem to come from a foul on a Liverpool player. :o

Weird, ain't it? :s22:

[sgparlay]

6 personal fouls = foul out. doesn't happen often because of unlimited substitutions. coaches will bring off the player when he gets into foul trouble.

yep
in NBA,
6 personal fouls = foul out
2 techincal fouls = ejected (= 1 match ban in the next game)
fragrant1 foul = excessive contact without intend = 1 x technical foul
fragrant2 foul = excessive contact with possible intention = ejected immediately
:s12:

[lyfeforce]

yep
in NBA,
6 personal fouls = foul out
2 techincal fouls = ejected (= 1 match ban in the next game)
fragrant1 foul = excessive contact without intend = 1 x technical foul
fragrant2 foul = excessive contact with possible intention = ejected immediately
:s12:

Don't you mean "flagrant"? I don't think fouls smell nice. :look:

[anfielder]

It definitely made a difference to our goal difference. :D

I don't think our players go out with the intention to get people sent off. It just happens to be a coincidence that most of the red cards this season seem to come from a foul on a Liverpool player. :o

Weird, ain't it? :s22:

no real difference to our goal difference isn't it? the only goal we scored after the sending-off was the penalty.

[anfielder]

Don't you mean "flagrant"? I don't think fouls smell nice. :look:

lol! :s13::s13:

[lyfeforce]

no real difference to our goal difference isn't it? the only goal we scored after the sending-off was the penalty.

One more goal. It could prove to be the winner if it comes down to goal difference. :o

Brad Friedel could have saved that penalty.

[1920_me]

Just a few more interesting facths.

=> Liverpool are only team to not have a player sent-off this season, incidentally this same feat was achieved two years ago.

=>Only two sides have manged to win the league without a single red-card in a season. Manchester United (92/93) and Chelsea (04/05)

=> First time, United have had more than four players red-carded in a season

=> At the rate the red-cards are being handed out, this season will shatter the record for most number of red-cards in a season.

[lyfeforce]

Indeed, I'm seeing a sudden influx of red cards recently.

[1920_me]

Indeed, I'm seeing a sudden influx of red cards recently.

It's all because of...

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/637FF045-0508-4CA0-B5BA-52ADF16A3196/145562/respect_blue.jpg

[lyfeforce]

It's all because of...

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/637FF045-0508-4CA0-B5BA-52ADF16A3196/145562/respect_blue.jpg

Only Rooney's card was because of the so-called "disrespect", which was a poor call. Most of the rest seem to arise from fouls on other players. I thought the respect campaign was meant for players to respect referees by not showing dissent?

[1920_me]

Only Rooney's card was because of the so-called "disrespect", which was a poor call. Most of the rest seem to arise from fouls on other players. I thought the respect campaign was meant for players to respect referees by not showing dissent?

It all stems from the same crap the FA is preaching. The refs want to apply more authority to the game and thus all these dubious calls. It's shocking on how easy it is for them to reach for the red card.

But,I hope Friedel's card gets rescinded. It wasn't fair on the guy. It would be the right thing to do.

[SpikyOyster]

Just a few more interesting facths.

=> Liverpool are only team to not have a player sent-off this season, incidentally this same feat was achieved two years ago.

=>Only two sides have manged to win the league without a single red-card in a season. Manchester United (92/93) and Chelsea (04/05)

=> First time, United have had more than four players red-carded in a season

=> At the rate the red-cards are being handed out, this season will shatter the record for most number of red-cards in a season.

Well this in a way validate those that are proposing Sin Bin for soccer. If Sin Bin is considered to be a hasher punishment, ref may consider to use it rather than red card. Sin Bin also have the advantage that the game that is being played is the one that benefit from the punishment.

Currently I cannot help to think that Fulham in some way may have benefited from Vidic's red card and Aston Villa will definitely benefit from those Man U players that will be missing that game.

[CanIsayNo]

It definitely made a difference to our goal difference. :D

I don't think our players go out with the intention to get people sent off. It just happens to be a coincidence that most of the red cards this season seem to come from a foul on a Liverpool player. :o

Weird, ain't it? :s22:
perhaps that's the only way to stop liverpool? by playing rough and getting sent off in the process :D

anyway i can see why the ref gave friedel the red, he wasn't having the best view, unlike us, who have the benefit of replays

but to be honest, im not quite sure wat the ref shouldve done about it, considering friedel was the last man and did get in Torres's way. Going by the book, it's difficult for the ref to not send him off.

Harsh for friedel but rules are rules..

[Overture1928]

take off jersey will get caution.
take off shorts no problem right? hahahaa.

Mirko Vucinic did it once without any booking
So I guess shouldn't be an issue