What's Singnet Broadband promotion this coming PC Show 2009

[tremor]

Recontract time.

Hope they give out macbook. Been waiting a few years, always just missed out. no more. this time I will hoot macbook for sure.

[liangtam]

noes to macbks~

[magix]

later this year again work with acer or lenovo again then sian.

Actually mac book promo was good ah. So far nv see this promo coming back. Haiz

[tremor]

Only few more days to the show but singnet have not come out the promo? Damn it I want a macbook.

[Jerm83]

same here i wan a mac book !!!!!!

[twosix]

IDA is discouraging telcos from bundling goodies and 2 yrs contract. So the telcos may drop bundling... who knows...

[phuque99]

probably nobody knows until the day or very close to it bah. otherwise, anyhow release insider information, competing telco create an even better deal, singnet marketing staff all lose their job man. in this economic climate, not very smart thing to do.

[leinad]

The MacBook promos were typically at the end of the year, where all the best promos are.

High chance you'll have to wait another 5-6 months.

/Dan

[kenloonglow]

Hope no goodies this time! wahahaha

[Pokémon]

Damn it I want a macbook.

That shows you really don't need one... :s22:

[geckoSG]

Only wish IDA FORCES all the telco to drop CONTRACTS!
Then we can switch TELCOs anytime if they screwed up on their service level
or their infrastructure cannot meet our demands.

(Impossible dream) :(

[phuque99]

Only wish IDA FORCES all the telco to drop CONTRACTS!
Then we can switch TELCOs anytime if they screwed up on their service level
or their infrastructure cannot meet our demands.

(Impossible dream) :(

Nope it is never impossible, see these:

http://www.ida.gov.sg/About%20Us/20060412181640.aspx
http://impact-sg.jobstreet.com/jobs/jobs.asp?aid=1&de=1&src=200001&pdt=0&ddt=1

Do join their policy making effort and share with us if the dream is possible. :)

[leinad]

Why bother to force them to drop contracts. It's easier to ask IDA to force ISPs to have a QoS. Guarantee a certain minimum of local AND overseas broadband speeds and state in black and white. Customers can report transgressions, and if the customers have experienced violations in the contract period, allow them to leave without penalty. That's the only way to force improvements. Impose that QoS.

Once there's a QoS imposed, there'll be much more transparency. Nobody wants a 100Mbps plan on paper that gives a 500kbps-2Mbps speed to an overseas server, especially when content is typically overseas.

Dropping the concept of contracts doesn't really punish the ISP as much as forcing them to have a publicly declared (in marketing materials as well as easily accessible to the public) QoS in their SLA. They'll not play the numbers game so easily.

/Dan

[phuque99]

Why bother to force them to drop contracts. It's easier to ask IDA to force ISPs to have a QoS. Guarantee a certain minimum of local AND overseas broadband speeds and state in black and white. Customers can report transgressions, and if the customers have experienced violations in the contract period, allow them to leave without penalty. That's the only way to force improvements. Impose that QoS.

Once there's a QoS imposed, there'll be much more transparency. Nobody wants a 100Mbps plan on paper that gives a 500kbps-2Mbps speed to an overseas server, especially when content is typically overseas.

Dropping the concept of contracts doesn't really punish the ISP as much as forcing them to have a publicly declared (in marketing materials as well as easily accessible to the public) QoS in their SLA. They'll not play the numbers game so easily.

/Dan

actually hor, how do you enforce QoS would be successfully over *so many* so called servers ah? commercial sla all boh bau jiak bandwidth beyond local circuit leh. maximum that singtel can control QoS, even if they open up all bandwidth is also to their immediate upstream provider leh. they have totally no control over the circuit route *all the way* to your own desired server.

even if you si bei tok kong, pull a circuit from a first tier international circuit provider directly into your home, they also baujiak first hop usually to your desired bandwidth. every single provider i know, both service provider and upstream providers, gives sla for uptime and latency and bandwidth *only* to first hop.

so hor, if you ceo of sing-tokkong-bandwidth-isp, i'll be interested to know how successfully force QoS to "international" servers.

[petebull123]

Looks like Singnet is no more offering the 8 Mbps broadband service. Now they offer the 6 Mbps at $35.90 - that's equivalent to or more than the price of 8 Mbps package previously!!! :eek:

I'm currently on MOL 8 Mbps and thinking of switching to Singnet.

Like to check whether those currently on the 8 Mbps contract are still getting 8 Mbps bandwidth or has Singnet totally switched to 6 Mbps?

Hope to see more attractive deals at the coming show.

Cheers.

[leinad]

actually hor, how do you enforce QoS would be successfully over *so many* so called servers ah? commercial sla all boh bau jiak bandwidth beyond local circuit leh. maximum that singtel can control QoS, even if they open up all bandwidth is also to their immediate upstream provider leh. they have totally no control over the circuit route *all the way* to your own desired server.

even if you si bei tok kong, pull a circuit from a first tier international circuit provider directly into your home, they also baujiak first hop usually to your desired bandwidth. every single provider i know, both service provider and upstream providers, gives sla for uptime and latency and bandwidth *only* to first hop.

so hor, if you ceo of sing-tokkong-bandwidth-isp, i'll be interested to know how successfully force QoS to "international" servers.
Yes, but you can definitely guarantee a minimum average speed to key international test servers (like how they force people to use their own internal test servers for bandwidth testing). And the numbers will not be in the league of 10Mbps/100Mbps, or even higher, like how they now love to play the numbers game to make themselves seem more attractive.

We will therefore be going back to promised minimum speeds of 1Mbps overseas bandwidth, as a general rule. And that would probably be more palatable to consumers as a whole.

The issue here is over-promising, under-delivering - due to oversubscribtion. That is the crux of what is forcing consumers away due to service level dissatisfaction.

Go to Australia - internet speeds there are "slow" in comparison, BUT... you get the same speeds for overseas connections too.

/Dan

[phuque99]

Yes, but you can definitely guarantee a minimum average speed to key international test servers (like how they force people to use their own internal test servers for bandwidth testing). And the numbers will not be in the league of 10Mbps/100Mbps, or even higher, like how they now love to play the numbers game to make themselves seem more attractive.

We will therefore be going back to promised minimum speeds of 1Mbps overseas bandwidth, as a general rule. And that would probably be more palatable to consumers as a whole.

The issue here is over-promising, under-delivering - due to oversubscribtion. That is the crux of what is forcing consumers away due to service level dissatisfaction.

Go to Australia - internet speeds there are "slow" in comparison, BUT... you get the same speeds for overseas connections too.

/Dan

well, i know where you're coming from, but from contracts and service level that i've seen with these upstream providers, none offer bandwidth minimum beyond their hop and link. that's the gis of my question, how would an ISP offer minimum bandwidth anywhere beyond local link to you, when they can't even get that agreement beyond first hop with their upstream provider?

providing a promise directly to own consumers when all other suppliers can't do that is like shooting own foot.

[ahtea]

Only wish IDA FORCES all the telco to drop CONTRACTS!
Then we can switch TELCOs anytime if they screwed up on their service level
or their infrastructure cannot meet our demands.

(Impossible dream) :(
Contracts are there to stay. Only with contracts, they are confident in offering you good prices. Imagine you subscribe today, and you terminate 1 week later because ISP B is offering you a equivalent plan at $1 less.

I feel that short term contracts will start to get popular though.

[ahtea]

Looks like Singnet is no more offering the 8 Mbps broadband service. Now they offer the 6 Mbps at $35.90 - that's equivalent to or more than the price of 8 Mbps package previously!!! :eek:

I'm currently on MOL 8 Mbps and thinking of switching to Singnet.

Like to check whether those currently on the 8 Mbps contract are still getting 8 Mbps bandwidth or has Singnet totally switched to 6 Mbps?

Hope to see more attractive deals at the coming show.

Cheers.
Hoping to see some good deals from StarHub for 8Mbps customers though. Imagine what we are paying now, we can easily sign 15Mbps plan for M1 Cable Modem service.

[liangtam]

min speed to specific server is akin to QoS only that handful few, and the others 'left to throttle'
it does not work like how you think and definitely does not solve the problems consumer wanted.
because intl b/w rate cannot be controlled in the first place

Oh, and one more point, modern consumer broadband is always about over-subscription to bring down cost to a certain value + profit.

Contracts are there to stay. Only with contracts, they are confident in offering you good prices. Imagine you subscribe today, and you terminate 1 week later because ISP B is offering you a equivalent plan at $1 less.

I feel that short term contracts will start to get popular though.
still charge you 1 mth for it and not prorate

[phuque99]

I think the point is this: even if you afforded to buy a 100Mbps direct tier1 ISP network connection to your home, that ISP is going to give you service level bandwidth up to their hop only. The reason is that even if you demanded 100Mbps to anywhere, it doesn't help that maybe SH or ST only bought 20Mbps upstream from this same tier1 ISP. Talking about tier1 connection, siang steady liao, also liddat.

As liangtam has put it, over-subscription has not been taken into account. Thus to ensure profit from a lot of el-cheapo less-than-$100/month subscription, how to promise bao jiak bandwidth?

[leinad]

well, i know where you're coming from, but from contracts and service level that i've seen with these upstream providers, none offer bandwidth minimum beyond their hop and link. that's the gis of my question, how would an ISP offer minimum bandwidth anywhere beyond local link to you, when they can't even get that agreement beyond first hop with their upstream provider?

providing a promise directly to own consumers when all other suppliers can't do that is like shooting own foot.

Well, then it becomes their problem. The gist of it is, if the authorities can push for a reasonable overall experience, then the companies have no choice but to comply.

The same issue happens with the roll out of new technologies. It's really only possible because the government agency in charge - IDA in our case - mandates the roll out. The consumers ultimately gain, and with it, the commercial consumers.

Since Singapore wants to drive an Intelligent Nation, they have to start by enforcing infrastructure basics. The funny thing is, by making the enforcements, the ISPs will somehow deliver. That's always been the key to new technology deployment - like 3G and hence HSDPA, as our local example. If we left it to the ISPs to sit on their technologies using the excuses many people here are well sickened of (and are actually using on their behalf), it will never happen.

Simply put, you can easily see the logical progression. Since ISPs have a QoS, oversubscription is controlled. More bandwidth is purchased, and efficient bandwidth control measures are put in place. Yes, it will still happen, BUT it will happen in a more reasonable way and not the extremes it now is currently happening at. Marketing media will not be so loose and embellished with empty promises, and most importantly - users are actually given realistic expectations and therefore no longer are misled.

/Dan

[QZLiang]

im waiting for a good promo that offers a laptop.

[phuque99]

Well, then it becomes their problem. The gist of it is, if the authorities can push for a reasonable overall experience, then the companies have no choice but to comply.


The point is, nobody comply to this for *all* international b/w. point to point connection anywhere to anywhere is made up of many isps that does not comply to bandwidth guarantee. So kinda hard for IDA to mandate unrealistic compliance that would make running ISP a very unprofitable enterprise.

[leinad]

The point is, nobody comply to this for *all* international b/w. point to point connection anywhere to anywhere is made up of many isps that does not comply to bandwidth guarantee. So kinda hard for IDA to mandate unrealistic compliance that would make running ISP a very unprofitable enterprise.
"Nobody"? I think Singtel's Magix was about the only ISP in Singapore that actually gave a decent surfing experience to home consumers. And international access speeds were actually reasonably close to the promised bandwidth. The key problem for that was, because of the extremely low subscriber base, the costs remained high. For cost efficiency, economies of scale must be properly considered.

It isn't "unprofitable"... If you look at the profit margins ISPs are reporting, you won't be surprised that a "dying" ISP like Pacific Internet can still remain profitable.

IMO, if the government wants to realize it's infrastructure goals, then they have to address the root of the problem - the ISPs.

/Dan

[liangtam]

"Nobody"? I think Singtel's Magix was about the only ISP in Singapore that actually gave a decent surfing experience to home consumers. And international access speeds were actually reasonably close to the promised bandwidth. The key problem for that was, because of the extremely low subscriber base, the costs remained high. For cost efficiency, economies of scale must be properly considered.

It isn't "unprofitable"... If you look at the profit margins ISPs are reporting, you won't be surprised that a "dying" ISP like Pacific Internet can still remain profitable.

IMO, if the government wants to realize it's infrastructure goals, then they have to address the root of the problem - the ISPs.

/Dan

Last time not many countries hogging the sub-pipes. Magix is a premium connection without the SLA, even if all SNBB user switch over to Magix now, the cost will NOT go down. The tech behind Magix is very old already, I wonder if many ppl sub they will stop the service even not.

PacNet is good but expensive. The latter word alone allows it to make profit.

Also, you have to note that single TCP thruput will be less noticable on a slower plan.

To refute your other suggestion. 3G 'was thought' to make money, thus it florished. But as we know now, the constant demand for mobile bb upgrades actually eat into profits. NGNBB is local hence can be implemented. NGNBB is supposed to reduce reliance of overseas b/w requirement

[phuque99]

"Nobody"? I think Singtel's Magix was about the only ISP in Singapore that actually gave a decent surfing experience to home consumers. And international access speeds were actually reasonably close to the promised bandwidth. The key problem for that was, because of the extremely low subscriber base, the costs remained high. For cost efficiency, economies of scale must be properly considered.


"Reasonable and close" is very very different from writing it down in print in your original post. Nobody puts that in print for upstream provider, thus not possible for ISP to provide that to consumers.


It isn't "unprofitable"... If you look at the profit margins ISPs are reporting, you won't be surprised that a "dying" ISP like Pacific Internet can still remain profitable.


That's right, pacnet didn't survive on kiam siap consumer wallets, but rather corporate customers in asia pacific.


IMO, if the government wants to realize it's infrastructure goals, then they have to address the root of the problem - the ISPs.


I'm not flaming but sharing my own personal experience in looking at bandwidth agreements with tier1 ISP as well as working with profit and loss sheet for running an ISP business plan for the local ISP here. I also speak from my personal experience in dealing with and having a dialogue with IDA directly on such matters.

Thus I personally invite you to do likewise to gain a better personal insight on what we're discussing here. I'll like to point out that legislation of laws can start from MPs and if you try to present an informed case with your local MP to be your voice, you may actually get some traction in the policy making with regards to bandwidth too.

[yeowenzheng]

Looks like Singnet is no more offering the 8 Mbps broadband service. Now they offer the 6 Mbps at $35.90 - that's equivalent to or more than the price of 8 Mbps package previously!!! :eek:

I'm currently on MOL 8 Mbps and thinking of switching to Singnet.

Like to check whether those currently on the 8 Mbps contract are still getting 8 Mbps bandwidth or has Singnet totally switched to 6 Mbps?

Hope to see more attractive deals at the coming show.

Cheers.

i am still on singnet 8mbps, previously was on 6mbps and they upgrade to 8mbps for free duno when last year, i am still paying $66/mth for that damn acer desktop bundle 2years back.
anyway i had fulfilled the 21mths recontract terms can go recontract during this coming pc show, but i can jumped ship cos havnt officially ended the contract :(
so maybe die die this coming pc show with or without bundle freebies also must recontract to save cost~!
$66/mth for 8mbps is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :(

[TimeTravel_0]

I want Mac Book too...
Want to Jump Ship, not satisfy with Moon Hub.

[trueworship]

hope this time they will bundle in a mac book. :)