Reminder: Do Not send car for pre-sales inspection

keanteac

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For a typical car buyer who is worried about buying a problem car, and who does not possess any mechanical knowledge - the most important variable is to get an understanding of all the previous owner's driving profile - is the person a fast driver? likes hard cornering? does outdoor sales? Pretty much what an insurance company would ask.

Generally if the car interior and exterior looks factory stock, has original paintwork, has original rims (very important), unused spare wheel (can tell by looking at the lug holes and tire), unused jack, has nice branded tyres (eg michelin), clean battery compartment with NO extra cabling for accessories, complete ABSENCE of any bodykit, and the transfer count is only 1 and low mileage - then I would just go ahead and buy without inspection, after a test drive.

It is almost a guaranteed safe buy.

If scare here and there, just go and buy new car.
 

Solid_snape

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i just bought a car without doing inspection cause dealer told me if do inspection then they dont cover already. if i dont do they give me 6 month cover engine cover gearbox..

That sounds a bit risky.. what if it's an issue not related to engine/gearbox then wouldn't you be screwed? Hmmm but no point worrying, enjoy your Mini! It's a fun car to drive for sure
 

AL5509

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If scare here and there, just go and buy new car.
Guess beside the point of being fearful about getting a lemon; the LAW; itself is not clear to the members of public aka buyers how we are protected from this Lemon's Law?
 

li9ht5peed

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If scare here and there, just go and buy new car.

That is always true. But there is a high demand for used cars, and most people sell their rides because it gave them problems.

There are a few who sold it because they longer need a car (make sure not due to license revocation or going jail), or are leaving the country (expat going home), or are upgrading to a better ride (eg made more money and want better image) - these are your ideal sellers.
 

HeadQuarters

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Lemon Law has ZERO effect when u encounter a crook dealer, so inspect or no inspect makes no difference :o

In this case, it's still best to send the car to AA for inspection before buying.
 

sp0rky

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That sounds a bit risky.. what if it's an issue not related to engine/gearbox then wouldn't you be screwed? Hmmm but no point worrying, enjoy your Mini! It's a fun car to drive for sure

haha..no experience when come to buying cars. just pray mine not lemon lo
 

walterwu

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I remembered your thread on taking the dealer to court, was this the quote that the judge said for your case?
If don't trust dealer's pre-sales inspection, I guess the only option left is to bring to workshop of buyer's choosing for said inspection, take plenty of photos of all critical components, sign new agreement on the car's condition before and after collection. As to any of these hold any water in the court of law is another question by itself.

Not advisable now.
 

trd2970

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I think your title is really misleading
Not sending the car for inspection is suicidal - the dealer, with their shiny knives already sharpened, will take every opportunity to skin you, and pull all sorts of stunts.

Sending the car for inspection may not be full proof but it's sending the right message to the dealer. Also you can send it to a trusted mechanic who can do more in-depth checks.

I think the main concern here is how the lemon law is flawed in the real world applicability in used car business, rather than anything else being discussed. And it should be addressed by lobbying this with CASE.
 

Matjes

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Buying used cars have its risks with or without inspection. The inspection criteria however is a questionable aspect. Who conducted the inspection? How qualified are they to conduct the inspection? How was the inspection conducted? How is the breakdown part related to the inspection carried out?

After which...
What problem has the inspection failed to prevent?
What have you incurred as a result of this failure?

A used car is not new. You are bound by common sense to have problems in the car. There is no way practically a used car dealer able to give you something that has no problem. Because it is not a new car, its history cannot be proven.

I will suggest that if it is not life threatening, get the part fixed up yourself or buy a new car.
 

doody_

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The issue is less about a working car and more about knowing what needs to be fixed. Imagine you buy a car that dealer says is ok, end up need additional 10k of repairs after your own inspection...
 

li9ht5peed

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The thing about lemon law is responsibility. Its a very long chain of cause and effect originating from car seller to car dealer to car inspector to CASE. At the end of this food chain - someone must be held responsible and thus be liable for costs.

So from legal perspective - if CASE wants to be the one deciding that the car really had a problem, it must have a solid team of car mechanics to back up its findings. Quite a stretch i imagine.

But then this is the job of the car inspection firms - such as AA. For all this to happen, a mechanic working for say CASE or AA must certify that the car is good or bad. No robot can do this.

This is a poorly paid job nobody wants. To certify that a vehicle is 100% ok takes time and money. Something most second hand car buyers are not prepared to pay for. And rightly so because all the buyer can afford is a used car and not NEW.

So at the end of the day - if u want a used car, be prepared for problems - so dont be surprised our lemon law for used cars will just remain as it is - problematic. Because no mechanic in his right mind will sign off and say the used car is as good as new - no defects. Or sign off and say only got problem A or B.

Do you want this job?
 

trd2970

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Clearer rules on burden of proof: The new draft legislation would also provide clearer rules on the burden of proof. If a defect is found within six months of delivery, it is assumed that the defect existed at the time of delivery, unless the retailer can prove otherwise (See Example 3), or if such a presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods (e.g. perishable goods would not be expected to last longer than their normal shelf life). If the defect is found after six months of delivery, it is for the consumer to prove that the defect existed at the time of delivery.
https://www.mti.gov.sg/legislation/...(Fair-Trading)-Act-and-Hire-Purchase-Act.aspx

It is all centered around this thing called burden of proof - the pre-sales inspection report enables the seller to "proof" that no defect existed at time of delivery. whether how defendable this "proof" is, is another question, considering that there is usually time gap between inspection date and delivery date
 

ZhuTou!

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For a typical car buyer who is worried about buying a problem car, and who does not possess any mechanical knowledge - the most important variable is to get an understanding of all the previous owner's driving profile - is the person a fast driver? likes hard cornering? does outdoor sales? Pretty much what an insurance company would ask.

Generally if the car interior and exterior looks factory stock, has original paintwork, has original rims (very important), unused spare wheel (can tell by looking at the lug holes and tire), unused jack, has nice branded tyres (eg michelin), clean battery compartment with NO extra cabling for accessories, complete ABSENCE of any bodykit, and the transfer count is only 1 and low mileage - then I would just go ahead and buy without inspection, after a test drive.

It is almost a guaranteed safe buy.

In short, stock car :s13:
 

ZhuTou!

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A used car is not new. You are bound by common sense to have problems in the car. There is no way practically a used car dealer able to give you something that has no problem. Because it is not a new car, its history cannot be proven.

Too bad alot of buyers do not have this type of common sense
 

AL5509

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https://www.mti.gov.sg/legislation/...(Fair-Trading)-Act-and-Hire-Purchase-Act.aspx

It is all centered around this thing called burden of proof - the pre-sales inspection report enables the seller to "proof" that no defect existed at time of delivery. whether how defendable this "proof" is, is another question, considering that there is usually time gap between inspection date and delivery date
Proof or no proof, think TS is taking about once the car is sent for inspection, buyer aka owner had automatically gave up the right to claim through lemon law??

The big problem is who the H€¿¿ really is responsible to this lemon law thingy?
Will CASE follow up? Or small claims tribunal(SCT) do the job?
 

li9ht5peed

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Used car sales people around the world are typically smooth talking, well-built tattooed men. Same pattern in malaysia or america. It takes a certain personality to buy crap from others at the lowest price, do some cosmetic touch-up and then flip it to an unsuspecting buyer whom he can smell from 10 km away and make the buyer drop some nice pennies for some hot ****. Then rinse and repeat while avoiding the cops with his seasoned responses.

Dont be deceived. This industry has been this way since cars were made last century. The americans cannot fix it, nobody can fix the laws and assure 100% worry free used goods.
 
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trd2970

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U nailed it
And the more meek, ignorant, "chin-chai", soft-spoken, the buyer is, the more these car salesmen will skin/fleece (or whatever u call it) the buyer..

Used car sales people around the world are typically smooth talking, well-built tattooed men. Same pattern in malaysia or america. It takes a certain personality to buy crap from others at the lowest price, do some cosmetic touch-up and then flip it to an unsuspecting buyer whom he can smell from 10 km away and make the buyer drop some nice pennies for some hot ****. Then rinse and repeat while avoiding the cops with his seasoned responses.
 
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