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Old 11-02-2015, 01:09 PM   #1
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IDA or NCS

Which company would be better to work in? (Remuneration, benefits, salary, work culture and etcetra) Anyone with experiences in these two companies?

Assuming graduate with bachelor's degree.
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:41 PM   #2
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One do the talking, the other do the work.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:16 PM   #3
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IDA. NCS CMI one.
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Old 12-02-2015, 03:30 PM   #4
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It depend on your goal.

NCS is more like System Integrator.
IDA is more like End User Environment.

Switching between End User Environment and System Integrator (Vice Versa) will have culture shock.

More readings for SI can be found in google or a brief one at below
What is systems integrator (SI)? - Definition from WhatIs.com

Remuneration: Both
Benefits: End User (as SI tend to be Contract)
Salary: Same as remuneration
Work culture: End User

One pointer that you missed, experience gained. SI will give you wider exposure than End User.

There are alot of factors to be consider, like who is fighting with you for the position, what are your trump cards, how urgent the company want the position to be fill, what are your connections and blah blah blah.
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Old 12-02-2015, 03:36 PM   #5
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It depend on your goal.

NCS is more like System Integrator.
IDA is more like End User Environment.

Switching between End User Environment and System Integrator (Vice Versa) will have culture shock.

More readings for SI can be found in google or a brief one at below
What is systems integrator (SI)? - Definition from WhatIs.com

Remuneration: Both
Benefits: End User (as SI tend to be Contract)
Salary: Same as remuneration
Work culture: End User

One pointer that you missed, experience gained. SI will give you wider exposure than End User.

There are alot of factors to be consider, like who is fighting with you for the position, what are your trump cards, how urgent the company want the position to be fill, what are your connections and blah blah blah.

Not true. You see diff things in end user. You understand the business flow, full picture of what is happening. In SI, you see what you are involved, usually it's jusT a small part of the big picture.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:49 PM   #6
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Not true. You see diff things in end user. You understand the business flow, full picture of what is happening. In SI, you see what you are involved, usually it's jusT a small part of the big picture.
When person A join end user, person A understand the business flow. Those work longer than person A in the same company, will understand the business flow better than person A. When person A change job, the business work flow will vary between different end user companies. Even if Companies are using framework, there are more than 1 framework. Even Companies using same framework, those small details tend to be overwritten by X reasons and their culture.

When it come to new assignment or project, end user did have an end to end process. Vendor will be the one for deployment. End user will supervise.

Do you think SI just aware of a small part of the big picture and not understanding what is happening?
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Old 14-02-2015, 02:45 PM   #7
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The replies are not wrong but fails to consider what TS's intended role is.

For the record, IDA is hiring is graduate developers/ux designers and is growing their development arm significantly. The latest Municipal app was developed mostly inhouse.

I understand IDA's development arm is like most shops now, agile/TDD methodology, using open source tools like GitHub, js etc. So good training group as well.

Last edited by koxinga; 14-02-2015 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 14-02-2015, 10:09 PM   #8
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IDA is not exactly end-user. IDA is freaking huge. They do have departments that does work that's no different from SI. They have departments that formulate and enforce policies across the entire civil service. They have departments that manage vendors to deliver services back to gov. Etc etc.

What you see in SI or end-user all depends on what level you're at and how much you willing to learn. In SI, you have a chance to see across domains, e.g. FSI, FMCG, engineering companies, real estate, etc. You have chances to come in contact with different different technologies depending on the companies the SI supports. Whereas when you're in end-user, you only know the domain you're in, you only know the technology that your company invested in.

There's no one that's better than the other. It all depends on your preference because as mentioned, the culture is generally very different between SI and end-user.
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Old 14-02-2015, 10:56 PM   #9
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But based on TS's question, he is also interested in areas such as remuneration and benefits.

I would say that remuneration in IDA is reasonable, especially for those moving from their first job (probably 3 - 5 years experience). It would also be particularly beneficial, especially having the opportunity to practice other areas of IT, such as governance and policy, which you won't have a chance in an SI. As IDA's role is also regulatory and industry development, again, you have chance to work in completely different fields.

The usual government benefits, but promotion is slow (like all governments).
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Old 15-02-2015, 09:36 PM   #10
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Just be prepared for crap work... I have a friend whose last straw was that he had to create a presentation to his bosses, on why he should create a presentation to present to their big bosses...

Last edited by alvinaloy; 11-03-2015 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 16-02-2015, 09:51 AM   #11
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The content on my discussion is on SI and end user. It may be slight track from TS intention. The content is also not on NCS or IDA.

it seem to be a thin grey line between end user and SI, the matter of fact is that it is not. If any one have vast experiences working in both environment, they can judge easily.

One more fact, there are end user evolving to SI + end user and I seem a handful in the market. But still, it is easy to differentiate within the same company.

This debate require the person to have a strong understanding on SI and end user, if not, it is Apple vs Orange situation. There will be no outcome.

I am here to share what I have been through. If any one intention is to win the debate, they are most welcome to be the winner. But who will ultimately benefit and win the situation, think harder.
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Old 18-02-2015, 11:49 AM   #12
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Thanks for the detailed replies!

I've seen the word "culture" mentioned a lot in earlier posts. What are the differences in culture between end user and SI environments?

For example a system analyst in end user versus a system analyst in SI.
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Old 06-03-2015, 05:10 PM   #13
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I come with experience in both SI and End-user environments.

My experience so far as below,

Culture:
SI = U are the vendor, pace and pressure is higher. There are deadlines which u must meet or else the customer or ur boss will pressure u in order to meet. Working OT or over weekends is not uncommon. If ur in a middle management position, u will have to fight for manpower resources to deliver project. As an System Analyst in the SI, most likely u will be involved in many projects of different companies.

End-User = Pressure and culture will be slightly better than SI. You are usually the customer, u have to push the vendor to pass you the deliverables on time. U will need to track ur own timeline closely as you may have to answer to your users/stakeholders. Most users or stakeholders will be ur own colleagues in the company.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:12 PM   #14
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When person A join end user, person A understand the business flow. Those work longer than person A in the same company, will understand the business flow better than person A. When person A change job, the business work flow will vary between different end user companies. Even if Companies are using framework, there are more than 1 framework. Even Companies using same framework, those small details tend to be overwritten by X reasons and their culture.

When it come to new assignment or project, end user did have an end to end process. Vendor will be the one for deployment. End user will supervise.

Do you think SI just aware of a small part of the big picture and not understanding what is happening?
Good reply. End of the day regardless of whether you are in a SI or end user environment, it all boils down to attitude. With the correct attitude, you will learn things regardless of where you work. Who is to say what you have learnt is good or bad, can be used or irrelevant? These are answers no one can answer but yourself. End of the day, you learn you benefit

Having said that, i have spent my entire IT career in a SI environment. Faster pace, higher stress and more exposure to new technologies and diverse backgrounds and environments. Learnings in SI environments are usually at an accelerated pace as compared to end users
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:09 PM   #15
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I come with experience in both SI and End-user environments.

My experience so far as below,

Culture:
SI = U are the vendor, pace and pressure is higher. There are deadlines which u must meet or else the customer or ur boss will pressure u in order to meet. Working OT or over weekends is not uncommon. If ur in a middle management position, u will have to fight for manpower resources to deliver project. As an System Analyst in the SI, most likely u will be involved in many projects of different companies.

End-User = Pressure and culture will be slightly better than SI. You are usually the customer, u have to push the vendor to pass you the deliverables on time. U will need to track ur own timeline closely as you may have to answer to your users/stakeholders. Most users or stakeholders will be ur own colleagues in the company.
I have been in both as well. I wouldn't say one is better than another.

SI = Tends to be more streamlined because cost is an important factor. They tend to have more processes in place and more structured environment. If you like structure and hate chaos, you'll like SI. Everyone here competes for budget. Cost-cutting is a way of life.

End-user = Chaos reigns. Nothing matters except making money for the business. Tends to have more money to throw around except they tend to waste a lot of silly money buying this buying that when those things don't help at all. Sometimes takes more time (and money) to come to the same conclusion as SIs simply because they are chaotic. Good end-user companies are few and far between.
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