How to avoid Dynamic Currency Conversion scam?

[sunrise_1]

I went to China many times and i always have no problems charging to local currency. But that was like 3-4 years ago. Is this DCC a recent phenomenon? Maybe is a problem only in certain countries, e.g China.

 

[redglue23]

most of the time the cashier really have no idea of what u are talking abt, to them, they swipe the card per normal and the transaction slip printed, that's all what they know.
Unless the banks (esp notorious Bank of China/HSBC which almost 100% of their POS machines are DCC enabled) train the cashiers properly- however, banks intentionally not to train- pls dont be angry with the cashiers since they really dont know what you are talking abt...
Ever read a thread abt how to avoid been DCCed by bank of china machines, it's like super complicated and the window period for the cashier to opt-out the DCC function is like a few seconds only. For a cashier earning less than S$500/mth, do u expect them to know how to operate?

My protocol/SOP is this:

If the cashier don't understand "用人民币结算". ----> Ask "Is this your first day?", then ask the manager to come out, if manager still don't know "用人民币结算". Then I walk out. You can call the cops to come after me. It is not I don't want to pay, it is your inability (even at manager level) to work the cc terminal POS system that don't allow me to pay. I will not be difficult at the cashier level, but at manager level, yes.

Usually at the manager stage, the cc terminal POS system will somehow miraculously be able to 用人民币结算 and hence avoid the DCC.

 

[Suleyman]

My protocol/SOP is this:

If the cashier don't understand "用人民币结算". ----> Ask "Is this your first day?", then ask the manager to come out, if manager still don't know "用人民币结算". Then I walk out. You can call the cops to come after me. It is not I don't want to pay, it is your inability (even at manager level) to work the cc terminal POS system that don't allow me to pay. I will not be difficult at the cashier level, but at manager level, yes.

Usually at the manager stage, the cc terminal POS system will somehow miraculously be able to 用人民币结算 and hence avoid the DCC.

So when they give you a slip with both SGD and RMB indicated, and they swear that it is charged in RMB, what are you going to do? Then when it says SGD on the bill at the month then what? Go back to China to kan the cashier?

99.9% of the time, it is not the cashier's fault. Most of the time, it is not the manager's fault either. This is how the f***ed up POS machine works, to automatically apply DCC and no one ever taught them how to override.

Maybe my Putonghua sucks, but when my colleague who is a native Beijinger cannot get the cashier to understand, I doubt it's due to a lack of language prowess.

So, yes, I can do the same and create a scene & walk out and dare them to call the cops. But frankly, you are in someone else's country and there is no reason to be a dick. If the situation is reversed and a PRC is abusing a local cashier for not understanding DCC, he would probably be lynched on stomp or edmw. Anyway, we know of workarounds to avoid the DCC problem (Amex/Unionpay). Why create a scene and face possible legal repercussions?

 

[redglue23]

So when they give you a slip with both SGD and RMB indicated, and they swear that it is charged in RMB, what are you going to do? Then when it says SGD on the bill at the month then what? Go back to China to kan the cashier?
99.9% of the time, it is not the cashier's fault. Most of the time, it is not the manager's fault either. This is how the f***ed up POS machine works, to automatically apply DCC and no one ever taught them how to override.

Maybe my Putonghua sucks, but when my colleague who is a native Beijinger cannot get the cashier to understand, I doubt it's due to a lack of language prowess.

So, yes, I can do the same and create a scene & walk out and dare them to call the cops. But frankly, you are in someone else's country and there is no reason to be a dick. If the situation is reversed and a PRC is abusing a local cashier for not understanding DCC, he would probably be lynched on stomp or edmw. Anyway, we know of workarounds to avoid the DCC problem (Amex/Unionpay). Why create a scene and face possible legal repercussions?

Dude, you should just stay in Singapore and not go out. You sound like you have totally no experience using cc overseas. Look before you sign?

This DCC is very simple, I cannot fanthom why you struggle with this. Or anyone needs to struggle with this. You don't stand up and insist on local currency charge, then accept the DCC, pay up and suck thumb, no need to come here and whine.

I don't need to create a scene, I will tell the cashier/manager what I have written here. All of them understand it.

Maybe you should re-read what I have typed here.

 

[redglue23]

My response to PM

Hello,

Well, thanks for sharing ideas how to avoid DCC in China, but I have couple of problems. I am from States, do not speak a single work in Mandarin and need to go there some time this August/September.

If the problem is with native speakers, I could imagine what kind of problem could be with foreigners. Any advice? Should I just print out what you write and show it to them?

You can. But before you sign on the charge slip make sure the amount is quoted in RMB. I always circle the RMB amount and then sign so that if there is a dispute, my intention to be billed in RMB at that point can be documented.

My take is that chances are, you will not be the only tourist or foreigner that will make this request (there are thousands if not millions before you) so the situation of cashier feigning ignorance is really not an issue.

In worst case ask to speak to a manager, as I do if I cannot get the point to the cashier, the managers are paid more, more educated, and have more experience with cc POS terminal so there is really no excuse at their level.

For those who want to avoid DCC. My jaw will drop if merchants (cashiers/manager) tell me they don't know how to use their POS cc terminal. Seriously, don't be so gullible.

 

[Inix]

Honestly people, whats the fuss? Its just 2-3%. If flying for holidays, it won't be much anyway. If flying for work, why bother when grandpa is paying?

If exchange rates is an issue, just pay cash lah, you guys won't even need to deal with the bank exchange rate. Don't you guys have better things to worry about?

 

[Suleyman]

Dude, you should just stay in Singapore and not go out. You sound like you have totally no experience using cc overseas. Look before you sign?

Yes. Silly me. Obviously don't know what I am talking about. I must be the only idiot in this forum to have faced this issue because I cannot communicate with the dumb cashier in Chinese.

Oh wait, there are literally pages of this crap in every forums dealing with credit card usage. Somehow the rest of us are just dumb. Sorry for taking up your time.

This DCC is very simple, I cannot fanthom why you struggle with this. Or anyone needs to struggle with this. You don't stand up and insist on local currency charge, then accept the DCC, pay up and suck thumb, no need to come here and whine.

Sigh. Ok, maybe it' my English that is bad. So, let me try it again.

I understand DCC very well. I know what it is and what happens and why it happens. I also know that it is inevitable that many cashiers DO NOT KNOW why it is the way it is. I can argue with them and/or their managers and walk out (as you suggested), but I rather avoid the whole problem by using Amex or Unionpay card.

See? No DCC problem anymore. No heartburn, no confrontation, everyone happy.

You want to fight with someone in a foreign country, be my guest. I guess with your native fluent Chinese, you can explain to the gong an ju why you refuse to pay.

I don't need to create a scene, I will tell the cashier/manager what I have written here. All of them understand it.

Maybe you should re-read what I have typed here.

OK. Let me see...

China or Europe. If I tell you, charge in local currency (用人民币结算) and you still bring me the charge slip in SGD (my cc currency). I will ask you "Are you new?" and kan you on the spot.

Then I walk out. You can call the cops to come after me.

So, again, maybe it's just my English is bad, but this sounds like creating a scene to me.

 

[gesheit]

Honestly people, whats the fuss? Its just 2-3%. If flying for holidays, it won't be much anyway. If flying for work, why bother when grandpa is paying?

If exchange rates is an issue, just pay cash lah, you guys won't even need to deal with the bank exchange rate. Don't you guys have better things to worry about?

Another solution is just to stay in Singapore.

 

[sunrise_1]

Honestly people, whats the fuss? Its just 2-3%. If flying for holidays, it won't be much anyway. If flying for work, why bother when grandpa is paying?

If exchange rates is an issue, just pay cash lah, you guys won't even need to deal with the bank exchange rate. Don't you guys have better things to worry about?

the fuss is becos bank will not award the double miles for overseas txn if it is charged in SGD.

 

[redglue23]

Suleyman, if you cannot handle DCC, just stay in Singapore.

Or if you think it is acceptable for the cashier/manager to tell you, "Sorry we don't know how to operate the POS CC terminal in our shop/hotel", then shut up, accept DCC and stop whining here.

Just because you are dumbfvck enough to accept this excuse doesn't mean that all others here have to. If you have travelled widely enough in China, not all places accept AMEX. If they did accept AMEX, they probably are "advanced" enough to know how to operate the POS CC System.

Those who does not accept DCC, just have to speak up and request to be charged in local currency like I did.

I have posted my experience with DCC and have never allowed them to charge my China (or other foreign) expenses in SGD. Although I am prepared to walk out, I never had the chance because then the POS CC system will miraculously be able to work without DCC. Yes, it is very strange.

 

[Inix]

Another solution is just to stay in Singapore.

If that's the case, you can do that but I see no point in letting 2% being a bitch and a sore point to my travel plans, for work or pleasure.

 

[Inix]

the fuss is becos bank will not award the double miles for overseas txn if it is charged in SGD.

Not really true. Only certain banks are like that.

 

[goenitz33]

If that's the case, you can do that but I see no point in letting 2% being a bitch and a sore point to my travel plans, for work or pleasure.

i concur on this

just take it as additional spending and not let it spoil your day about it.

 

[lcpteck]

Sometimes there are just no options for the cashier to choose (encountered this in KL as well), cause it was already locked by the merchant bank and the store has no clue as well.

So nowadays I'm just paying by UOB Prvi Miles Amex and Cash when I'm overseas to avoid any hassle. Smooth and clean, everybody happy.

 

[rebook]

Anyone has experience in Japan? Going there next week. Thanks

 

[Arcanell]

Suleyman, if you cannot handle DCC, just stay in Singapore.

Or if you think it is acceptable for the cashier/manager to tell you, "Sorry we don't know how to operate the POS CC terminal in our shop/hotel", then shut up, accept DCC and stop whining here.

Just because you are dumbfvck enough to accept this excuse doesn't mean that all others here have to. If you have travelled widely enough in China, not all places accept AMEX. If they did accept AMEX, they probably are "advanced" enough to know how to operate the POS CC System.

Those who does not accept DCC, just have to speak up and request to be charged in local currency like I did.

I have posted my experience with DCC and have never allowed them to charge my China (or other foreign) expenses in SGD. Although I am prepared to walk out, I never had the chance because then the POS CC system will miraculously be able to work without DCC. Yes, it is very strange.

I think you just had a bad night. chill

 

[sunrise_1]

Not really true. Only certain banks are like that.

maybank horizon n anz travel both require charges to be in foreign currency, for citibank pm i m unclear, cos the travel n redeem promotion clearly state only foreign currency, while the pm tnc didnt state that.

the logic is quite simple actually, if local banks cant make tat extra 2-3% off your foreign txn, how are they gonna give u bonus miles?

 

[invisible999]

Honestly people, whats the fuss? Its just 2-3%

Principle. Enough said. And it is not 2-3%, I've seen 8%.

Anyone has experience in Japan? Going there next week. Thanks

Have not seen it yet. For business I use my s****ty corp AMEX. In the only place where I used my own card for several hundred $ purchase everything was in yen.

 

[Suleyman]

Principle. Enough said. And it is not 2-3%, I've seen 8%.

I agree. Which is why by principle, I do not support DCC. However, unlike others, I recognise that the fault lies in the bank either hardwiring their POS terminals to use DCC by default or giving false information about what is shown on the slip. Giving the cashier (or the manager) a hard time just shows your lack of class.

My theory is that this is the 'up-yours' that ChiGov is giving to Visa and MC, and also to 'encourage' the issuing of Unionpay cards outside China, which does alleviate a lot of these issues when used in China.

 

[Inix]

maybank horizon n anz travel both require charges to be in foreign currency, for citibank pm i m unclear, cos the travel n redeem promotion clearly state only foreign currency, while the pm tnc didnt state that.

the logic is quite simple actually, if local banks cant make tat extra 2-3% off your foreign txn, how are they gonna give u bonus miles?

That's just 2 banks out of the 11 credit card issuing banks. I can tell you more that arnt. OCBC for example. But it isn't all. BOC for 1, will give you the full 3x points for charging SGD in foreign locations.