Why pay annual fees for miles? & how redeption works?

dahnoob

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just wondering when you guys calculate "miles cashback", do you take into account of cheaper flights that CAN replace SQ?

I can see LHR has other big international airlines offering only 60% of SQ's price tag in skyscanner

imo it needs to be an apple to apple comparison. for example, if you wanna travel to hongkong, there are many ways to get there. even saver award allows date and flight changes, so it's actually comparable to flexi revenue tickets.

assuming sq flexi revenue costs $900, and saver award costs 25.5k miles + taxes.
lets say you find a budget flight that flies to hong kong for $200. you cannot really argue that the 25.5k miles are used to offset $200 worth of cash, as they are different things. hope that helps!
 

Yachtmaster

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imo it needs to be an apple to apple comparison. for example, if you wanna travel to hongkong, there are many ways to get there. even saver award allows date and flight changes, so it's actually comparable to flexi revenue tickets.

assuming sq flexi revenue costs $900, and saver award costs 25.5k miles + taxes.
lets say you find a budget flight that flies to hong kong for $200. you cannot really argue that the 25.5k miles are used to offset $200 worth of cash, as they are different things. hope that helps!

that example SIN-LHR, I searched and found SQ at $1600+ and Lufthansa at $900+ which is a BIG difference, so that 8% cashback is actually more accurately valued at 4.8%
 

dahnoob

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that example SIN-LHR, I searched and found SQ at $1600+ and Lufthansa at $900+ which is a BIG difference, so that 8% cashback is actually more accurately valued at 4.8%

SQ offers direct flights, while you need to transfer at FRA for LH. Have you taken into account of that?

Also, the $900 fare you quoted for LH, does it allow changes/refunds? For curiosity sake, I did a sample booking on both carrier's websites, for SIN-LHR one-way, on 16 Nov 2017.

SQ:
$1877.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Flexi". Direct flight. Free changes, Cancellation at 150USD.

LH:
$1193.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Basic Plus". Transfer at FRA. Changes at 130EUR, Cancellation at 190EUR.

$3293.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Flex". Transfer at FRA. Free changes and cancellations.

I'm aware there are cheaper flights on LH, but they were codeshare flights and operated by Swiss Air. Even those have transfers at ZRH. I took LH operated flights for comparison's sake.

From the above we can see that the fare conditions are different for each carrier. SQ award tickets, even at saver, allows for free changes and charges a token amount for cancellations. Comparing the same fare condition, we should instead be looking at the flexi fare for LH, which costs $3k.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong or whatsoever, I just feel that a fair comparison should be made (ie apples to apples) when calculating the "value" of a mile in a redemption. Cheers.
 

Yachtmaster

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SQ offers direct flights, while you need to transfer at FRA for LH. Have you taken into account of that?

Also, the $900 fare you quoted for LH, does it allow changes/refunds? For curiosity sake, I did a sample booking on both carrier's websites, for SIN-LHR one-way, on 16 Nov 2017.

SQ:
$1877.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Flexi". Direct flight. Free changes, Cancellation at 150USD.

LH:
$1193.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Basic Plus". Transfer at FRA. Changes at 130EUR, Cancellation at 190EUR.

$3293.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Flex". Transfer at FRA. Free changes and cancellations.

I'm aware there are cheaper flights on LH, but they were codeshare flights and operated by Swiss Air. Even those have transfers at ZRH. I took LH operated flights for comparison's sake.

From the above we can see that the fare conditions are different for each carrier. SQ award tickets, even at saver, allows for free changes and charges a token amount for cancellations. Comparing the same fare condition, we should instead be looking at the flexi fare for LH, which costs $3k.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong or whatsoever, I just feel that a fair comparison should be made (ie apples to apples) when calculating the "value" of a mile in a redemption. Cheers.

SIN-LHR
The shortest SQ flight time is 12:55 and the shortest LH flight is 14:35
Time diff of 1 hr 40 mins, price diff of $684. A couple would be $1268, enough to stay 4 more days + fun easily?

Changes, cancellation, flexi whatsoever affects very small percentage of travellers, and even if you do want to count them as part of your analysis, they are just s$200 difference apart

Not to forget you can only change for basic flight fares for miles redemption, you still need to fork out extra cash for fuel surcharges, misc fees etc, and of cos your krisflyer membership fees.

Lastly, if you buy tickets online you can easily earn 6-10% rebates
 
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dahnoob

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SIN-LHR
The shortest SQ flight time is 12:55 and the shortest LH flight is 14:35
Time diff of 1 hr 40 mins, price diff of $684.

Changes, cancellation, flexi whatsoever affects very small percentage of travellers, and even if you do want to count them as part of your analysis, they are just s$200 difference apart

Not to forget you can only change for basic flight fares for miles redemption, you still need to fork out extra cash for fuel surcharges, misc fees etc, and of cos your krisflyer membership fees.

Lastly, if you buy tickets online you can easily earn 6-10% rebates

The fare class and condition exists for a reason. It's like you telling me buying the $1.1k LH ticket and paying for changes and cancellations, does it make your ticket the same as the $3k one? Even though you can almost match the conditions of an upper fare by topping up the charges, they are different things altogether.

Krisflyer membership is free.

If you have a card that offers 10% rebates with no cap, by all means use it.
 

Layers

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I applied altitude first n woman's card first.

Think i am comfortable with 3 miles card. I know miles can be nv enuff. But paying more than 1k per yr. More than most of my insurance lol

Sent from Sony E6853 using GAGT
 

Yachtmaster

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The fare class and condition exists for a reason. It's like you telling me buying the $1.1k LH ticket and paying for changes and cancellations, does it make your ticket the same as the $3k one? Even though you can almost match the conditions of an upper fare by topping up the charges, they are different things altogether.

SQ:
$1877.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Flexi". Direct flight. Free changes, Cancellation at 150USD.

LH:
$1193.70 incl. taxes and surcharges, booked into "Economy Basic Plus". Transfer at FRA. Changes at 130EUR, Cancellation at 190EUR.

pls enlighten how does buying 1.1k LH and pay extra $200 for changes and cancellations (if needed) will be a "different class" from the SQ ticket at 1.8k? very intriguing

from my simpleton's point of view, there's only 3 classes, economy, business and first class.
didnt know economy also got different "class". how different are we treated in different classes within economy?
.
 
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vince123123

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It is an apple vs orange comparison. Different airlines, different hard and soft product, different mules currency. Different route (direct vs 1 stop). Very hard to compare like this.
 

Yachtmaster

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It is an apple vs orange comparison. Different airlines, different hard and soft product, different mules currency. Different route (direct vs 1 stop). Very hard to compare like this.

exactly i can't understand why it is an apple-orange comparison

why do you guys earn miles which redeems overpriced SQ fares and still feel very sextisfied when there are clearly cheaper alternatives out there

how do you justify $1286 savings for a couple who arrives 2 hours later but can use it extend 4 days more for their holiday?

please, enlighten me
 

xtwis7

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exactly i can't understand why it is an apple-orange comparison

why do you guys earn miles which redeems overpriced SQ fares and still feel very sextisfied when there are clearly cheaper alternatives out there

how do you justify $1286 savings for a couple who arrives 2 hours later but can use it extend 4 days more for their holiday?

please, enlighten me

Hard product maybe not so much difference. Soft product is the service rendered to you by the cabin crew onboard. For some people, that higher level of service is justified by the higher cost of the ticket.

Of course if you see it as just getting from point A to B, go for whichever is the cheapest. The additional savings as you said can be better spent on other items overseas.
 

Yachtmaster

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Hard product maybe not so much difference. Soft product is the service rendered to you by the cabin crew onboard. For some people, that higher level of service is justified by the higher cost of the ticket.

Of course if you see it as just getting from point A to B, go for whichever is the cheapest. The additional savings as you said can be better spent on other items overseas.

thanks for the insight. fully understood. probably for the "branded" image as well
 

zumaba

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imo it needs to be an apple to apple comparison. for example, if you wanna travel to hongkong, there are many ways to get there. even saver award allows date and flight changes, so it's actually comparable to flexi revenue tickets.

assuming sq flexi revenue costs $900, and saver award costs 25.5k miles + taxes.
lets say you find a budget flight that flies to hong kong for $200. you cannot really argue that the 25.5k miles are used to offset $200 worth of cash, as they are different things. hope that helps!

Quite true.

After redeemed, I bit surprsied to see it is free and unlimted (?) to make change to my booking which I feel very lucky. Otherwise holiday would be almost spoiled.
 
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dahnoob

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pls enlighten how does buying 1.1k LH and pay extra $200 for changes and cancellations (if needed) will be a "different class" from the SQ ticket at 1.8k? very intriguing

from my simpleton's point of view, there's only 3 classes, economy, business and first class.
didnt know economy also got different "class". how different are we treated in different classes within economy?
.

You are making the assumption that you are paying at most $200 for changes and cancellations, i quote, "if needed". I can also argue that the $700 price difference will break even by changing 4 times, "if needed". The perks of redemption tickets has always been the flexibility (for all 3 cabin classes) and the ability to travel on premium products without paying the full price (for biz/first). Say for a sin-jfk suites, instead of paying thousands, you could redeem it using credit card points and save.

If you insist on calculating strictly by the ticket cost, I suggest you book via MH instead, $482 on expedia.

It is an apple vs orange comparison. Different airlines, different hard and soft product, different mules currency. Different route (direct vs 1 stop). Very hard to compare like this.

Thank you. Finally someone understands.
 

rebook

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exactly i can't understand why it is an apple-orange comparison

why do you guys earn miles which redeems overpriced SQ fares and still feel very sextisfied when there are clearly cheaper alternatives out there

how do you justify $1286 savings for a couple who arrives 2 hours later but can use it extend 4 days more for their holiday?

please, enlighten me

You have your needs, so do others. There was one time that my redemption tickets were changed 5 times before finally flew, it's the flexibility I have, due to whatever reasons which is in or out of my control. At one time, I even adjusted the air ticket for one day just because the hotel I booked had a buy-5-get-1-free promotion.

Let's just stop arguing here, you do what you think it's good for you, and so do others, don't have to teach everyone your way of doing things.

I am a bit extreme, if I fly mid-long trip such as Japan or Australia, If I can get good deal, I don't mind to fly via budget air, which is only $200+ return trip, and I am ready to lose it if there are changes I cannot avoid. However, I will also sometimes redeem SQ business class and enjoy all the flexibility and comfort. There is no right or wrong approach, no best solution, it's only subjective to what you have and what you want.
 

zumaba

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that example SIN-LHR, I searched and found SQ at $1600+ and Lufthansa at $900+ which is a BIG difference, so that 8% cashback is actually more accurately valued at 4.8%

I think it is not right to compare this way.

But I do agree with you that SQ is not necessary the best choice for all cases. If I am totally free and to fly alone, I might go LH or most likely to try out the "best airline", Emirates. Flying 6-7 hours then takinga a break. :)

For SQ ticket alone, $1600 is almost the lowest I think. For other dates, it could be $1800+ or $2000+, while for redeemed ticket,the price (miles+cash) almost fixed and at least not changed that so much?

Also SQ has 4 flights per day and you can choose the arriving time on your needs, and sometimes this is very important if you want to travel to other part of UK.
 
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dahnoob

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You have your needs, so do others. There was one time that my redemption tickets were changed 5 times before finally flew, it's the flexibility I have, due to whatever reasons which is in or out of my control. At one time, I even adjusted the air ticket for one day just because the hotel I booked had a buy-5-get-1-free promotion.

Let's just stop arguing here, you do what you think it's good for you, and so do others, don't have to teach everyone your way of doing things.

I am a bit extreme, if I fly mid-long trip such as Japan or Australia, If I can get good deal, I don't mind to fly via budget air, which is only $200+ return trip, and I am ready to lose it if there are changes I cannot avoid. However, I will also sometimes redeem SQ business class and enjoy all the flexibility and comfort. There is no right or wrong approach, no best solution, it's only subjective to what you have and what you want.

Can't agree more. Even though budget flights cannot be changed/cancelled, voiding the entire ticket would have only costed you the price of the ticket itself. When there are good deals, voiding the original ticket and rebooking into another flight might even be cheaper than full fare flights.
 
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