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Is CPF a PONZI SCHEME?

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Old 23-02-2012, 01:33 PM   #46
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The System that is set down by Ppl who believe that they should manage other ppl's money because they believe that they being more "brilliant" is supposed to tell you how to use your money is BS.

Unfortunately SG ppl buy this kind of BS.

Say as we will, try as we might, but nothing is gonna change.

Calculate based on 8000-10000 of increase in MSS every year, 30+ years down the road, do you think you can have enough in CPF to meet it? You might provided you are always employed and dont need to buy a house.

In the end, i view CPF as Tax because it is almost confirm i will not see the money ever. Only consolation is that you can use this Tax to buy HDB and for some hospital expenses.
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Old 23-02-2012, 01:46 PM   #47
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If something is really good you don't need to make it mandatory. People would willingly queue up for it.
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Old 23-02-2012, 02:43 PM   #48
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The System that is set down by Ppl who believe that they should manage other ppl's money because they believe that they being more "brilliant" is supposed to tell you how to use your money is BS.

Unfortunately SG ppl buy this kind of BS.

Say as we will, try as we might, but nothing is gonna change.

Calculate based on 8000-10000 of increase in MSS every year, 30+ years down the road, do you think you can have enough in CPF to meet it? You might provided you are always employed and dont need to buy a house.

In the end, i view CPF as Tax because it is almost confirm i will not see the money ever. Only consolation is that you can use this Tax to buy HDB and for some hospital expenses.
your bottom line is if you cannot see all of your CPF monies in cold hard cash then it is not supposed to exist?
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Old 23-02-2012, 02:58 PM   #49
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your bottom line is if you cannot see all of your CPF monies in cold hard cash then it is not supposed to exist?
Something that is taken from you and locked up / kept away in another place.

Is that something truly yours? Or does it belong to another?

It is all a matter of perception.
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Old 23-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #50
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I think the current system works just fine. My only problem with it is the withdrawal age. 65 is too high. They should be more flexible and allow those that have reach 60 to choose retirement when they have enough money in the bank or choose to withdraw a lower monthly amt
The bad news is it's going to increase rather than decrease. If one do not have kids and die before that age, that's all your 'savings' down the drain.

That's when you can die a poor man but very rich in CPF.
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Old 23-02-2012, 03:50 PM   #51
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even if i don't have kids. I will rather give my cousins kids or my sisters kids. Let govt take the money and give people I don't know personally for what? Even if not related to me I rather give to people's kids I know personally if its allowed.
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Old 23-02-2012, 03:58 PM   #52
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even if i don't have kids. I will rather give my cousins kids or my sisters kids. Let govt take the money and give people I don't know personally for what? Even if not related to me I rather give to people's kids I know personally if its allowed.
You need to make a will for it first.

And i believe it can be done.

If not it will go to "others"
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Old 23-02-2012, 04:20 PM   #53
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The System that is set down by Ppl who believe that they should manage other ppl's money because they believe that they being more "brilliant" is supposed to tell you how to use your money is BS.

I beg to differ. Many people really cannot manage their own money. Moresocial problem will happen. Eg. No money to pay housing loan, etc.

Although I against the mandatory rule to "manage our money", it isstill a better social solution than more social problem. In fact, it is a blessing to have CPFespecially for people who don't invest and this group of people are getting areasonable return. If one really feelthat it can perform better in your own investment, CPF could still be used forthat.
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Old 23-02-2012, 04:34 PM   #54
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I beg to differ. Many people really cannot manage their own money. Moresocial problem will happen. Eg. No money to pay housing loan, etc.

Although I against the mandatory rule to "manage our money", it isstill a better social solution than more social problem. In fact, it is a blessing to have CPFespecially for people who don't invest and this group of people are getting areasonable return. If one really feelthat it can perform better in your own investment, CPF could still be used forthat.
Denying the Rights of another by Deducing that oneself is greater then another fellow human being that is also an equal is already wrong by itself.

Ppl who want to rule over others can come out with 1 million reason & arguments on it.

The Fundamental problem of any system is in the system itself.

Human Beings on a whole are better without all these systems / rules / laws.

My Stand on the CPF is that no matter how they repackage it to look all Rosy. It is still a Tax, and many of them dont really live to the age to see this "forced savings" come back to them.

Lastly like i have pointed out earlier, it is all a matter of perception.

PS: Pardon my english as i aint very good in it. Fundamentally i am anti-establishment as a whole. System / Rules / Regulations / Laws only serve those who know how to play around with it.

Last edited by goenitz33; 23-02-2012 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 23-02-2012, 05:41 PM   #55
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fact: more harm than good... in the last 20 years.
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Old 23-02-2012, 05:42 PM   #56
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using ponzi scheme or legality doesnt prove anything. CPF isnt related to these in anyway. on a side note, when they ever tweak CPF then it's no longer CPF.

see, u are using a big IF to base ur arguments. like IF i strike toto 1st prize tomorrow. it's not gonna stick.

plz, how can u say CPF rates are high? bank interests rates has been like 3-5% in the 80s-90s. guess u werent born early enuff for that. when we say high returns it usually means snow-balling, not something like 20yrs to double.

CPF started in 1955, u cant be using the rates now to compare. besides, i think CPF rates is more or less the same as insurance. u arent calling insurance plans a ponzi scheme are u?
well, CPF already tweaked so many things without any IF but it is still called CPF lol

my point of saying it takes decades to snow-ball is because they can hide such thing without being discovered.... and its ridiculous to even compare bank rates of 80s-90s at 3%-5% as being high. HDB flats in 80s-90s cost $20k-40k, now it costs $300k-400k. I guess it must have been a whole lot cheaper now according to your theory.

and comparing CPF to insurance...... I rest my case
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Old 23-02-2012, 05:46 PM   #57
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Something that is taken from you and locked up / kept away in another place.

Is that something truly yours? Or does it belong to another?

It is all a matter of perception.
A little out of the topic but I agree
CPF will only be a number on a piece of paper you receive once a year if we can't use it
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Old 23-02-2012, 06:50 PM   #58
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Well, Temasek and GIC suck in investing.
The gov should let each individual singaporean do his/her investment.

How well can Singaporeans invest?

Year 2011
Members with losses (less than 0% return) 45%
Members with gains (less than 2.5% return) 38%
Members with gains (> 2.5% return) 17%
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...Report2011.pdf



Year 2010
Members with losses (less than 0% return) 49%
Members with gains (less than 2.5% return) 37%
Members with gains (> 2.5% return) 14%
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...Report2010.pdf

Year 2009
Members with losses (less than 0% return) 52%
Members with gains (less than 2.5% return) 35%
Members with gains (> 2.5% return) 13%
http://www.cpf.org.sg/NR/rdonlyres/E...Report2009.pdf

Year 2008
Members with losses (less than 0% return) 49%
Members with gains (less than 2.5% return) 31%
Members with gains (> 2.5% return) 20%
http://www.cpf.org.sg/NR/rdonlyres/6...eportDec08.pdf

Year 2007
Members with losses (less than 0% return) 43%
Members with gains (less than 2.5% return) 29%
Members with gains (> 2.5% return) 28%
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...E_reportpl.pdf
Yup if only i had more prior to 2007 to invest.

Net gain at 2007 was at 350%



2008 - 2011 not as good though 10-12%
Seriously, do u understand the figures that I had put?

Last edited by yeokiwi; 23-02-2012 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 23-02-2012, 06:53 PM   #59
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A little out of the topic but I agree
CPF will only be a number on a piece of paper you receive once a year if we can't use it
1.You can use it to buy house.
2. You can use it to pay for hospitalisation bills and common chronic disease treatment
3. you can kill yourself to take out your money for your kins.

Last edited by yeokiwi; 23-02-2012 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 23-02-2012, 08:16 PM   #60
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If something is really good you don't need to make it mandatory. People would willingly queue up for it.
sweeping statement. CPF is in general a public good. why should it be kept among a small group of people? i would rather they make it mandatory than 10 or 20 yrs later some ppl come back kpkb say they dunno and they lose out and blame the govt for it. wasting public resources. another thing is, if they dun make it mandatory esp on the employers' part, employees are eventually gonna lose out. the mandatory part is applicable to employers too.

really, from here i came to realise some ppl only see short term benefits instead of the long term good for them. chinese saying, throw away the melon for a tiny sasame.

remember, CPF is not a ponzi scheme promising great returns within a short time span. it is not THAT attractive. but it is a good thing to have. given the fact that the older generations are overly ignorant on policies and regulations, plus uber reluctant to get involved in govt policies, it is a good move.

besides, the fundamental fact is, not all are in the scheme, there are ppl who have no CPF.
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