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Is CPF a PONZI SCHEME?

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Old 23-02-2012, 08:18 PM   #61
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A little out of the topic but I agree
CPF will only be a number on a piece of paper you receive once a year if we can't use it
plz u r already using it. ur house loan? medical fees? some others even have multiple financial portfolios involving CPF.

u dun see it doesnt mean it is not there.
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Old 23-02-2012, 08:22 PM   #62
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[QUOTE=goenitz33;64346682]The System that is set down by Ppl who believe that they should manage other ppl's money because they believe that they being more "brilliant" is supposed to tell you how to use your money is BS.QUOTE]

The problem with allow pple to handle their own money is that most pple don't know how to. Just look at this thread and see how many of them actually thought of planning for retirement despite the fact that everyone is constantly bombarded by the need to save money

Car affordability (Household Income Vis-a-vis Expenditure) - MyCarForum

Due to something call equality, everyone has to be treated the same heance when it comes to legislation always have to be catered for the masses and not the select few. Hence in the case of CPF, the select few who actually have the ability to handle their own money gets punished.

At least it's better then the Ang Moh system which doesn't work, takes away as much as 50% of your pay as income tax which cannot be used to pay for houses. On top of that their pension age is also going up(most are pushing to 65, in Germany it's 67) and the pension amt is going down.
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Old 23-02-2012, 08:29 PM   #63
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at least in this thread there are ppl who dun realise CPF is mandatory for employers too. they are so ignorant they only think about the part of their own salary retained and nothing else.

this is one good reason why it should be mandatory and enforced.

the giving back part is, however, more controversal and IMHO more options should be given to individuals.


At least it's better then the Ang Moh system which doesn't work, takes away as much as 50% of your pay as income tax which cannot be used to pay for houses. On top of that their pension age is also going up(most are pushing to 65, in Germany it's 67) and the pension amt is going down.
plz dun spread wrong concept. the ppl in angmoh countries paying 50% income tax is the minority. those who earned more than 200k a year. and these just happened to be the ppl who really knows how to make money. they 50% is their contribution to the society, not for them to buy house. and they probably wont need it anyway.

whether their system works or not is another story.
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Old 23-02-2012, 08:58 PM   #64
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plz u r already using it. ur house loan? medical fees? some others even have multiple financial portfolios involving CPF.

u dun see it doesnt mean it is not there.
ok let me elaborate on what I mean by "we can't use it"
CPF gives us great guaranteed returns. With compounding interest, our CPF grows fat over time.

However HDB, out of nowhere, just decided to increase the prices of their flats by the same fat proportion. You get more CPF, but you pay more for your flat. So in other words, its like a sleight of hand magic trick. Now you see it, now you don't! The flat probably costs only $200k realistically but was inflated to $300k-400k to make you think that your CPF + compounded interest is paying good money for it.

So... yes you can use the money to buy a flat but when you sell it, most of the amount have to be returned back to CPF with interest.

And with the new CPF life, if anything happens... the govt either gets all your money or it gets credited to your children/spouse/siblings CPF account. In future when your children pass on, their CPF will get credited to your grand children's CPF account, and so on. The account will grow fatter, maybe even millions and the minimum sum will get higher too so that your grand children can't withdraw them. HDB flats will probably start to cost millions too so that they will have a use for all that money in their CPF. Do you see where I am coming from?

Financial portfolio gives people the illusion that we have a say over how our money is invested. At the end of the day, whatever profit we earned is still locked in.

As for medical fees, I agree we are allowed to utilise them. It will be better if the govt can further relax the rules for the usage of the CPF MA. But for the CPF OA and SA...

Last edited by HunterXtreme; 23-02-2012 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 23-02-2012, 09:27 PM   #65
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And with the new CPF life, if anything happens... the govt either gets all your money or it gets credited to your children/spouse/siblings CPF account. In future when your children pass on, their CPF will get credited to your grand children's CPF account, and so on. The account will grow fatter, maybe even millions and the minimum sum will get higher too so that your grand children can't withdraw them. HDB flats will probably start to cost millions too so that they will have a use for all that money in their CPF. Do you see where I am coming from?
Seriously, are we talking about the same Singapore's CPF?
You seems to live in a different planet or a parallel universe.
Or simply, you do not bother to find out all the facts.
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Old 23-02-2012, 09:51 PM   #66
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Seriously, are we talking about the same Singapore's CPF?
You seems to live in a different planet or a parallel universe.
Or simply, you do not bother to find out all the facts.
Seriously...u need to update yourself before commenting on others..

He's right
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Old 23-02-2012, 09:59 PM   #67
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Seriously...u need to update yourself before commenting on others..

He's right
old man will get the life scheme pamphlet. then the old man will pui chao nuah
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Old 23-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #68
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ok let me elaborate on what I mean by "we can't use it"
CPF gives us great guaranteed returns. With compounding interest, our CPF grows fat over time.

However HDB, out of nowhere, just decided to increase the prices of their flats by the same fat proportion. You get more CPF, but you pay more for your flat. So in other words, its like a sleight of hand magic trick. Now you see it, now you don't! The flat probably costs only $200k realistically but was inflated to $300k-400k to make you think that your CPF + compounded interest is paying good money for it.

So... yes you can use the money to buy a flat but when you sell it, most of the amount have to be returned back to CPF with interest.

And with the new CPF life, if anything happens... the govt either gets all your money or it gets credited to your children/spouse/siblings CPF account. In future when your children pass on, their CPF will get credited to your grand children's CPF account, and so on. The account will grow fatter, maybe even millions and the minimum sum will get higher too so that your grand children can't withdraw them. HDB flats will probably start to cost millions too so that they will have a use for all that money in their CPF. Do you see where I am coming from?

Financial portfolio gives people the illusion that we have a say over how our money is invested. At the end of the day, whatever profit we earned is still locked in.

As for medical fees, I agree we are allowed to utilise them. It will be better if the govt can further relax the rules for the usage of the CPF MA. But for the CPF OA and SA...
i think u are talking about different things.

when u say we cant use it, u are probably wrong. we CAN use it.

however, whether the prices of HDB flats is reasonable or not, that is another topic, thou personally i think it is not reasonable. we need the dept concerned to give us a breakdown of costs. as whether u think it is a sleigh of hands or not, without it, u are gonna fork out more, realistically.

and of cos the CPF pass down to family members if one dies. what else? better solution? but if u are saying the holder should be given a choice to withdrawal that i agree too. and i suggest holders be brief-ed and educated of the possible risks of different withdrawal schemes b4 they make the choice. but then i think bringing up the death issue demonstrates a dangerous tendency of 'spending every cent of it while u can'. that is what most rational ppl wont want to see, and is oso the rationale behind the withdrawal rules the govt imposed.

btw i dun think the CPF interest returns is really that high, coming from a family of accountants and businessmen... i think it's so-so only, along the lines of insurance policies etc, but a lot safer since it's govt backed.

and no, ur CPF isnt being locked up. u still get a fraction of it periodically, after u reach the required age and is entitled to withdrawal. in fact from personal experience, my mom had used up all her CPF, thou i dunno how she withdraw, whether wholesome or fractional. but there is a chance ppl use up their CPF b4 they die, and the situation could be threatening. she is now suffering from various old-ppl illness, and depended on the rest of us topping up her medisave acct for sponsored medical care.
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Old 23-02-2012, 10:19 PM   #69
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CPF OA should be at least usable for medical reasons...........
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Old 23-02-2012, 10:32 PM   #70
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I doubt that GIC and T-Holdings were playing with CPF funds...

CPF should be doing other kinds of investments or holding onto bonds issued by those two bodies and not simply giving them funds to play with....

while GIC and T-Holdings have made wrong decisions, the impact should be kept apart from CPF.

if this believe helps make you sleep better.

Singaporeans should not be afraid of the truth.
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Old 23-02-2012, 11:39 PM   #71
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Seriously, do u understand the figures that I had put?
CPF will know if ppl encash their investments and put it back into CPF i presume (i dont have the idea nor know what methods they are using)

If you are saying because of the low amt of ppl having net gain more then the prevailing interest rate, i think it is quite decent.

Alot of ppl are investing based on what FAs are telling them and have absolutely no idea what they are buying.
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Old 23-02-2012, 11:51 PM   #72
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[QUOTE=wMulew;64356652]
The System that is set down by Ppl who believe that they should manage other ppl's money because they believe that they being more "brilliant" is supposed to tell you how to use your money is BS.QUOTE]

The problem with allow pple to handle their own money is that most pple don't know how to. Just look at this thread and see how many of them actually thought of planning for retirement despite the fact that everyone is constantly bombarded by the need to save money

Car affordability (Household Income Vis-a-vis Expenditure) - MyCarForum

Due to something call equality, everyone has to be treated the same heance when it comes to legislation always have to be catered for the masses and not the select few. Hence in the case of CPF, the select few who actually have the ability to handle their own money gets punished.

At least it's better then the Ang Moh system which doesn't work, takes away as much as 50% of your pay as income tax which cannot be used to pay for houses. On top of that their pension age is also going up(most are pushing to 65, in Germany it's 67) and the pension amt is going down.
Look at it this way, everyone have different perception of life.

Some ppl prefer to hand down their fruits, some ppl prefer to eat their fruits, some ppl prefer to keep it later and eat. Ultimately what one wants to do with their fruits is their business, and we shouldn't criticize them for it.

Life is unpredictable and despite alot of planning, 90% of the time something comes in and your plans will have to be changed, there are some who dont really wish to plan too far ahead and are contend with enjoying what they have at the moment. As long as they live a fulfilling life according to what they want, no one can say that they are wrong.

Like i have pointed out earlier, the only issue with a system is the system itself. Everyone is equal and no one is standing on high ground, ultimately when one dies, you will leave with nothing.

About the systems in other countries, it is not up to us to criticize also, nation building requires a long time, and things dont happen overnight, lastly not everyone is taxed 50% like what you said, their taxation are high no doubt but it is also tiered. In turn they have very low cost for education, free medical, low cost housing / transportation and subsidized food cost.

Even their luxury items cost less then what is in Singapore. There are pros and cons in every country and we should not look at just their cons and overlook the pros which in some cases, the pros are enough to outdo the cons.
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Old 24-02-2012, 06:49 AM   #73
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Some ppl prefer to hand down their fruits, some ppl prefer to eat their fruits, some ppl prefer to keep it later and eat. Ultimately what one wants to do with their fruits is their business, and we shouldn't criticize them for it.
I eat all my fruits and later I ask you to share your fruits. Is it ok?
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Old 24-02-2012, 08:12 AM   #74
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BTW so far govt have not revealed how much CPF fund they are holding and exactly where the fund is being held/invested, have they?
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Old 24-02-2012, 08:31 AM   #75
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It is a ponzi scheme when they keep raising the minimum age. The idea is to prevent you from taking out what is rightfully yours, and keep all the funds for the fund managers to use in any way they deem fit.
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