[ponpokku]

lol thats a funny one. thats why i say, apply some logic:

'is this the god that i'm gonna put my faith in? i mean, mafia god?'
'is this the god the bible is talking about? protection money?'
'is this really is THE GOD? or the devil? '

then the answer is pretty clear. stopped going to church myself cos most of the time, the pastor failed to impress me or motivate me. all tok cok nonsense, self interpretation twist and turn...

[sunzoner]

ponpokku wrote:

lol thats a funny one. thats why i say, apply some logic:

'is this the god that i'm gonna put my faith in? i mean, mafia god?'
'is this the god the bible is talking about? protection money?'
'is this really is THE GOD? or the devil? '

then the answer is pretty clear. stopped going to church myself cos most of the time, the pastor failed to impress me or motivate me. all tok cok nonsense, self interpretation twist and turn...

Logic and common sense is in short supply.

[Haagen Diaz]

ponpokku wrote:

nope, i just said i went church for 2 yrs, every weekend no fail. never say it was CHC. but at the same time i went other institutions too, like temples etc, on regular basis and helping them in charity and fund raising. my ex-boss did pestered me, but i told him i was once a church goer he didnt pester that much. see, the CHC ppl are twisting the bible. they may spread those to non-believers but they knew they will have a more difficult time convincing those who had some understanding in the christian faith. ppl do read bibles and have learned the common teachings, the CHC ppl cant bluff, so they'll avoid u.

probably not i guess. even if it was established, it was kong hee and a small group. i wouldnt have heard of him. as i said, 20yrs back. u are talking to old uncle. get it?

and nope, revelations and miracles are not for show. if u try to get ppl involved by showing them miracles, u are on the wrong track. they joined either in awe or in fear, not becos they think what u said makes sense. thats the same thing as the china wine thingy, or kong hee style aggressive preaching. u dun need that to lure believers.

Ponpokku, you wrote, "i just said i went church for 2 yrs, every weekend no fail, and yet said another thing - "i've been to temples, churches and even other cultish institutions consistently for about 2 yrs, till i went abroad".

I'm curious how you attended the church every weekend without fail, how come you have time to visit temples for 2 years? You attended temples on weekdays for 2 years?

May i know WHEN did you go abroad?

Revelations/miracles are not for show? Hmm...can you explain why Jesus showed miracles/revelations during his 3 years ministry - healing, resurrect Lazarus from the dead?

Can you explain why Elijah commanded fire to be alighted on wet stones that were poured with plenty of water? Tell me why Moses and his friend, Aaron performed miracles such as locusts and caused the death of every firstborn of Pharaoh's people?

Huh? U consider china wine as miracle? To me, it is very childish and ridiculous and silly and crappy show!

I ask you for your sharing of the miracles/revelations because there are 2 types of revelations/miracles: authentic and bogus.

Back to Kong Hee, it is obvious that it is obvious that he "pester" his gullible followers to donate $$ to him for the church building fund. It speaks so much volume about his faith in God otherwise he won't misappropriate the church funds.

What do you mean of mafia god? I'm not sure i understand your new word - mafia god.

That's why Sun Ho danced in sex song show - china wine thingy. *faint*
I wonder how he feels when he was watching that song drama. Did he feel ashamed of his wife dancing with sex moves? It's no different from Dr. Jekyll and Dr. Hyde.

Imagine if Rui En is Kong Hee's wife, I am very sure that she will rebel against the common practice of singing song shows - usually sex. She will act upon her own beliefs and convictions that she will act normal in song show...you get what I mean.

Rui En is known for refusing to act in rape scene or whatever is against her conscience and beliefs and criticize the Star awards ceremony. I thumb up for her!!! I respect her for who she is and she is not pretentious.

Sun Ho has a weak character unlike Rui En. I'm also very sure that Rui En will sing the gospel in normal attire to give glory for God alone, trusting in God alone to win lost souls if she is a Christian. Only an example.

[Haagen Diaz]

mgsten wrote:

me in normal existence. u probably in yr existance.
don't get upset. juz kidding only.




aiyo, me not so 'auntie' mah. guess like everyone else still not sick with the saga also waiting patiently for july 25. dat's a given. duh!

I'm also waiting for 25 July as well.

[ponpokku]

Haagen Diaz wrote:

wah lan eh....

smells like the clown... but nevermind...

so why not going to temples and such while attending church service? chinese buddhism requires 1st and 15th of the month to be praying days, sometime only the 1st of the month. they dont always clash with weekend services. so u became a christian, u became more busy...4 meetings a month instead of 1 or 2.

then the buddhism study groups can be any day, and usually in the evening to cater working ppl. for example my mom would go to her temple on thursday night for scriptures studies, i used to go to mine whenever i'm free. besides, general establishments like buddhist library etc are open to all, anytime u can go there borrow books, talk to ppl, or if there happens to be a class on scriptures, u just join and listen.

the world of religions is much bigger than u think it is.

[Haagen Diaz]

Singapore: Church Scandal Sparks Dissent · Global Voices


Pastor Kong Hee and his wife stay in a $10mil Sentosa apartment, drives expensive cars, wears high fashion, got capital to run high-end boutiques and live like multi-millionaires. Sun burnt tens of millions in Hollywood trying to launch her Geisha image. Even if they did not misused church funds like their fervent supporters would like to believe…where did they get the rest of the money from? Drop from the sky?

However, members of City Harvest Church also took to social media to voice their support and faith in their church leaders. Daphne Ling at Mother, Inc. reaffirms her trust in her church:

I have absolute trust in the fact that none of the money was embezzled for personal gain. I believe in the Crossover Project and there was certainly no intent to deceive, as had been alleged. Pastor Kong and all the other 4 individuals on trial have not breached the trust of the church members.

I make no apologies for giving every dollar that we gave and we will continue to do so knowing that the funds will not be misused.

City Harvest Church is my family. It has been for the last 15 years and I don’t think anything will ever change that.

Ed at Ed Unloaded refutes claims that the congregation was coerced into giving money to the church:

Some people have the impression that CHC is all about money, where members get brain-washed into giving and pledging loyalty to the church. Well, I’m a committed CHC member and my family & friends who are not from CHC know that I’m a regular guy, of sound mind and not hypnotized. I have my share of opinions and make decisions based on my faith and convictions.

I made numerous monetary contributions to the church, and I fully believe in the church’s vision and cause. To me, it is a worthy investment, and I wasn’t coerced or forced to give, and I definitely have no regrets giving. The fruits of my giving are seen in the thousands of lives changed and impacted by the ministry of CHC.

[Haagen Diaz]

Church Backing Wrong Leaders: Kong Hee & Gang « COMMONSENSE THINKING BLOG



“This type of church pastors can really create such a stinky boboo. But, the church members all been Psychoed ah?”
One Wiseman drinking coffee at the shop commented, “I ever heard of a famous Taiwanese writer branded Lion City people as the most stupid population in Asia… As compared to Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Mainland China…” One oldman jumped up, “No wonder, many Lion City folks continued to be conned into the sweepstake cheats in Johor”.
The Wiseman replied, “Dun make any conclusion yet. Wait till 25 July, see what the defendants have to say.”





http://faithfulthought.wordpress.com...fied-accounts/


Yes, everything has two sides of stories. This is truly a clever excuse coming from the respectable (?) and well supported pastor. But, to combine messages and actions such as, Creative, God, Geisha, Vamp, $9m Condo, Falsified financial Accounts, the Gospel of Luke, cleavage and to sum up with declaration “I do maintain my integrity”; all these PERFORMANCES require a guy to be very cunning as well as the quality of Saying Things Staring At God!
Sometimes we can’t blame those scientists who declared God is dead. It’s time for huge amount of justice as gift for this Christmas…


This author is from HK.

[Haagen Diaz]

Pastor Kong Hee: “Was Jesus Poor?” | A L V I N O L O G Y


Here are some interesting highlights and claims:

- God was said to speak directly with Kong Hee four times to “cross over” to the secular world and promote Christianity via his wife, Sun Ho.

- Taiwan’s Christian population has more than doubled, from a mere three percent to 10 percent in 10 years, thanks to the Crossover Project.

- The Crossover Project helped converted “Teddy”, a notorious leader of a gang and owner of one of the largest nightclubs in Hong Kong.

- In Kuala Lumpur, Sun Ho’s secular concerts in 2003 sparked a revival in City Harvest Church Kuala Lumpur (CHCKL). Today, CHCKL is one of the fastest-growing and most vibrant churches in Malaysia.

- In Indonesia, people “broke down the doors and pushed their way into Sun Ho’s concerts”.

- In Singapore, Sun Ho performed 14 times over one weekend at the church’s premises at Jurong West. Over two days, 30,700 people came, and 10,140 salvation decisions were recorded.

- Twenty-five months after the Crossover Project was launched, Sun had performed more than 100 concerts to about half a million people, and out of that, almost 140,000 gave their hearts to Christ.

Based on the numbers from the article, it costs the church S$23 million to reach half a million people and convert 140,000 of them. That works out to S$46 to reach out to one person and around S$164 to convert one person via the Crossover Project.

If each of the 140,000 newly converted makes a monthly income of S$3,070 (based on Singapore’s median monthly income in 2011) and donates 10 percent to the church each…

This gives an additional S$43 million in church revenue each month! You can get back the paltry S$23 million invested over three years in just A SINGLE MONTH!

Even if I based my calculations on the 33,000 church members that City Harvest Church currently has in Singapore, that works out to over S$10 million a month (33,000 x S$307) in donations. The amount spent on the Crossover Project is just two and a half months of pocket change to the mega church. Spread over a period of three years, it is probably a drop in the ocean.

=================

Interesting information. It really converts Teddy to Christ? I wonder what convert him?

[Haagen Diaz]

Quote:

It was during this trip that the Holy Spirit dropped a word into his heart and said, “Kong, I want you to bring a revival to Taiwan, and I will use this revival to touch the entire Chinese-speaking world.”

Kong kept what the Holy Spirit had said to him at the back of his mind. The following year, he went back to Taiwan to minister at the Bread Of Life Church in Taipei. This time, he brought along his wife, Sun, who led worship in CHC. Over the next few days, a powerful typhoon swept the city. But to their surprise, many young people, most of them un-churched, came to the church night after night, not to listen to the preaching but to watch Sun leading praise and worship. They loved her colored hair, her pop culture look, and they loved the pop songs she sang in between the worship songs.

It was then that they realized that pop music could be a powerful bridge to communicate the love of God to the youth. What if they could repackage the message of faith, hope and love of Jesus Christ and bring it into the schools, the boardrooms and the bedrooms of the unchurched? At that time, it was unheard of for those in the Christian world to share the Gospel through the secular entertainment platform.

Apprehensive and more than a little doubtful, Kong needed confirmation from God that what was beginning to take form in his mind was a God-idea. God gave him not one confirmation, but four.

On Sep. 11, 2001, the day of the tragic 9/11 suicide attacks on the World Trade Center’s twin towers in New York City, Kong and Sun were in the city to minister to a friend on the verge of suicide. As the tragedy took place, God spoke to Kong: “From today, the world has changed. I brought you here to watch history unfolding. Go back to Asia and bring the Gospel to your generation—the young people and the urban professionals.” That was the first confirmation.

In obedience to that word, the couple went to Hong Kong soon after to participate in a prayer walk. As they were walking along the busy streets of Kowloon, they passed by an electronics shop that had a display of television sets near the entrance. On the screens of the televisions, thousands of young people were dancing to the beat of a secular pop-rock group from mainland China. There and then, the presence of God fell on them. Kong recalled, “God spoke very, very clearly to our hearts. ‘Sun, you will do better than this. I will send you to sing before millions of people and you will lead them to Jesus Christ.’” That was the second confirmation.

One night, Sun was leading worship at church, when a visitor, touched by her singing, approached her after the meeting and offered her a full professional contract. He was the managing director of Decca Music, an international recording label. This was confirmation number three.

It was all good, but Kong needed a Scriptural confirmation. When his respected mentors Ulk Ekman, AR Bernard and Phil Pringle gave the same verse from Mark 4:35, “Let us cross over to the other side,” Kong knew there was no more space for hesitation, and the Crossover Project was born.

In 2002, Sun Ho recorded her first Chinese pop album, Sun With Love. She held her first pop concert in the biggest indoor arena in downtown Taipei, the National Taipei Sports Complex. The team worked with a small Taipei church, New Life Church, which had about 200 members then. “Nobody was sure if anybody was even going to turn up,” said Kong. On the first night, the 4,200-seater stadium was jam-packed, with thousands more watching on big screen projectors outside. It was estimated that 80 percent of the audience had never been to church.

After Sun finished singing, she gave her testimony about the abuse she endured in her childhood and how Jesus saved her from her years of depression and brokenness. “The love and presence of God hit the entire arena; practically everybody was crying.” Kong then gave a simple altar call, and thousands upon thousands responded. “We didn’t expect that at all. When we went back to our rooms, we were wondering what exactly happened. We were in a daze.” Over the next two days, a total of 21,500 people attended the concerts, and 8,000 decision slips for Christ were collected.

Sun performed in various other cities, including Taoyuan, Hualien and Tainan—it was here that one of CHC’s affiliate churches, Rhema Harvest Church was birthed. In Kaohsiung, on the eve of a concert, a typhoon was raging, but 700 people still came, and 560 responded to the altar call. In the small town of Jia Yi, Sun performed at a high school to about 1,100 students. One of the students, a teenage girl named Christina Yu, testified of the miraculous work of deliverance from depression God did in her heart as she listened to Sun sing.


http://www.citynews.sg/2012/05/city-...sover-project/

No wonder. Kong Hee don't mind having his wife performing in 'sex' song show to win the lost souls. It explains everything why Kong Hee and his wife are willing to do that.

Indeed controversial issues.
Hmm...quite interesting. It makes me more curious what is Kong Hee's story for why the funds are misappropriation.

[sunzoner]

Quote:

Taiwan’s Christian population has more than doubled, from a mere three percent to 10 percent in 10 years, thanks to the Crossover Project.

Guess in Taiwan, before "crossover", there was no churches.

No.. Wait... if there is no churches, where did the 3% attend church???

[Haagen Diaz]

sunzoner wrote:

Guess in Taiwan, before "crossover", there was no churches.

No.. Wait... if there is no churches, where did the 3% attend church???

Maybe at homes like cellgroups or underground?

[sunzoner]

Haagen Diaz wrote:

Maybe at homes like cellgroups or underground?

I think you missed my point and did not realise that Taiwan unlike China do allow churches...

How can the increase in Christian be attributed solely to the "crossover" when other churches are in existence?

[Haagen Diaz]

A Christian defends Kong Hee: Let us not be quick to make a judgement « THE TEMASEK TIMES

Firstly I would like to clarify that i am not a CHC member, but I have been following my parents to CHC for the last couple of years. I am not attached to any cell group or ministry in the church as I feel that I can’t fit in with the congregation there. In fact, at the start of this year i actually started attending another church, but I occasionally visited CHC during special services like Easter, Fathers and Mothers day. I admit that sometimes the way the services were run made me feel uneasy and uncomfortable, but growing up in a Christian home, I was taught that we are not to judge a church or any other thing based on our own personal preferences. For me, I accepted that CHC was not my preferred church, and therefore I chose to leave. However the few years of sitting through CHC services have allowed me to experience first-hand what many people, including the writer of this article have misunderstood.

With regard to Michelle’s first point that CHC ”kept emphasizing giving money”, I have to say that she is horribly mistaken. While it is true that they do invite several members to give testimonies on how God has blessed them financially since they increased their giving, it is completely untrue that CHC believes and preaches that Christians are to give to God because we want God to give us more. These testimonies are given as an encouragement and proof of God’s faithfulness to His people when they obey Him.

In the Bible it is written as a command to tithe, not as a suggestion. As a church, they are encouraging people to obey God, not forcing them, and definitely not saying that they should give only because they want to receive more from God and prosper. When asking for tithes and offering i remember often hearing the pastor reminding the congregation that we give because we want to be more like Jesus and we want to obey Him. Also throughout all my years there, I have never once ”received a different gospel from the one (I) know”. Everything is congruent with the Bible.

Addressing her second point about how the defensive behaviour of CHC members has disgraced Christians, I personally feel that to use such a strong word as ”disgrace” is unfair for the members as they are just showing their support for their leader. It is only natural for members to want to defend their pastor as they as a congregation have seen him week after week speaking God’s word and they would know better than members of the public what kind of a man he is. The mention of Kong Hee never goes without the mention of the church. The church was in the headlines and I’m sure as a member you would have felt that the church name was defamed.

The church members are also certainly not ”blindly continuing to profess their faith in Pastor Kong Hee”. The church worships God, not Kong Hee. I remember i would always find it strange that the congregation would cheer and clap when Kong Hee went on stage, but he, like other pastors, would remind them to give an even louder applause to God, the God that they gathered in church to worship. They clapped and cheered for God even louder than they ever did for any man. And then I realised it is just in their culture to show support and love to their leaders and fellow members. It doesn’t mean that they idolize him.

The following few paragraphs of the above article were really disappointing. Michelle started off the article by saying that she was writing ”not to judge the people involved in the saga” but as I read on i felt like there was actually a judgement made. If you are expecting an apology from Pastor Kong and his church members, am i wrong to say that Michelle has already made the judgement that Pastor Kong is guilty and that the members are supporting his sinful actions? He has not been proven guilty, and until the day it can be proven, i don’t think that it makes sense for a Christian to be making that statement. It is obvious that he hasn\’t made an apology because from his side of the story he doesn’t think he has committed a sin, and likewise the church members choose to believe that he is innocent and hence see no need for an apology.

I am not saying that I believe Pastor Kong is innocent or guilty, but i believe that if he is found guilty, he would definitely confess his sins because this is what he has taught me and thousand others through the many sermons we have sat through.

I agree that actions speak louder than words, and I have seen this lived out through Pastor Kong’s life. He speaks of choosing love and reaching out to those who need God. And CHC is the biggest example of how he turned his words into action and brought hundreds of thousands to Christ through his church and ministries all over the world.

I hope you understand that as a young Christian I still have a lot to learn about God and His word, but everything I have written here is based on what i have learnt growing up and it is what i believe in. Also I am not using this as a attack against anyone who agrees with Michelle here, neither am i supporting the actions of CHC members. I just wanted to correct some things that I believe are mistaken.

Till the verdict is out, we shouldn’t be quick to make our own judgement.

[Haagen Diaz]

Quote:

Woah! A CHC supporter said to Kong Hee, "You are, Kong Hee, as great as the Great Leader of North Korea.

"http://temasektimes.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/kongheesupport01.jpg

Wow! Many CHC members believe in Kong Hee. Indeed impressive! Obviously, that person worships Kong Hee as a good because Kong Hee is considered to be the greatest as the great leader of NK. Why didn't she say Jesus is the greatest among the great ones?

Quote:

My thoughts on Kong Hee and City Harvest | Want some tau huay?

When I tweeted that the whole saga was a disgrace after news broke that Kong Hee and four others were arrested, I was suddenly getting a lot of brickbrats from members of City Harvest for “judging” Kong Hee as a fellow brother in Christ. One even went to the extent of arguing with me that getting “picked by the police” was different from being arrested. Ridiculous.

I stand by what I say, but I want to explain why I feel this whole saga is disgrace to us Christians.

I’m very puzzled as to why I’m being accused of “judging”. The authorities took 2 full years to investigate the claims that the funds were being misused. Surely they wouldn’t take action unless they didn’t had concrete proof?

Yes, I’m a Christian and I should be keeping my fellow brethren in prayers. But at the same time I feel that as a Christian and as a member of the public, I should be impartial and objective. Luke 17:3 says: “If your brother sins, rebuke them, if they repent, forgive them”.

The facts are laid bare for all to see. And that no one, not even Kong Hee himself has come out and proclaimed their innocence, just drills home my point.

What saddens and appalls me is that a man who claims to be a man of God and an ordained leader is “stealing” from the Church. I believe Kong Hee had/still has good intentions when he first started City Harvest, but somehow, somewhere along the years, he allowed himself to be taken in by greed.

No doubt, he is only human and to err is only natural. But a Pastor, of all people should know better. I mean, how does a Pastor who is suppose to exercise spiritual guidance over his people, telling them stealing is wrong, does it himself? And with the members tithes and offerings.

It is fair to point out that three great men in the Bible, David, Moses, and Paul, were all criminals. Their mistakes are chronicled in the Bible and there are many lessons for us to learn. As someone who is suppose to be a teacher of the Bible, Kong Hee should know better than the rest of us what it is like to incur the wrath of God. He is supposed to be our role model

Of course, God forgives all who have sinned and as Christians, we are called to do likewise. But does that mean we close our eyes and pretend nothing has happened?

Which brings me to why I’m shocked and dismayed when I see how some City Harvest members are defending Kong Hee and criticising other Christians for voicing out against him. I admire their faith and loyalty in their Pastor. But it has come to a point that they have started worshiping him and not God. Have they forgotten what is the main purpose of going to Church? Do they not remember God’s reminder to put their faith and trust in him and not in Man? (Psalm 146:3)

It confounds me why they criticised other Christians for voicing out. Again, Luke 17:3 comes to mind. Have they forgotten that the money that Kong Hee misused is their tithes and offerings, their 10 percent of their allowance/pay, and that it belongs to God?

And do they not understand our frustrations? How are we supposed to bring our friends to church and spread the Gospel to people when we are being stereotyped because of Kong Hee?

While I absolutely do not condone the mocking and the abuse people not of the faith has thrown on City Harvest members and Christians in general, I do not blame them, in part because of the ‘cult personality’ and the blind faith of City Harvest members, which is better explained in this blog post.

My prayer is for Pastor Kong Hee and those involved to repent and account for the money that he misused, that the members his congregation see the truth and not waver in their faith. And for my fellow believers to forgive Kong Hee and let go of any bitterness and rage in their hearts. Because if he is unrepentant and refuses to acknowledge his wrongdoings, he will be judged by God on Judgement Day. I’m at peace knowing that.

Wow! CHC members brickbat this guy blogger for his candid comments.

Quote:

�朋�的地盘: The City Harvest Saga

We don't need much introduction on the City Harvest Church (henceforth CHC) saga that has unfolded over the past couple of days, but for the sake of referring back to this post some time in the future, and for individuals to make quick references, below are a few links that tell us the facts of the case:

Report by CNA on the charge
Infographic on chronology of events
Press Release by CoC

What surprised me about this chain of event is not only the extent of the misappropriation of funds - some $50 million, but rather the reaction of the city harvest church-goers. Certainly the fact that $23 million later and all we get is China Wine and Kill Bill is of course shocking, but I contend that this crazed defense really takes the cake.

When CNA and ST broke the news, it was no more than a rephrasing of the press release of Commission of Charities' (CoC) findings, and the facts are such that after 2 years of investigation, they found that money was used inappropriately through the Crossover Project and all the other details you can read. But the immediate reaction of the CHC goers were not to think about what happened, why it happened, but to immediately jump to defense that are not even related:

1.) They defend that the cross-over project helped many people
2.) They say that they knew exactly where the money was going to
3.) They are very sure that Kong Hee did not do it
4.) They say that the media is biased (I do give it to them that there is intense media scrutiny)
5.) They asked us not to judge without knowledge
6.) They say that Sun Ho is an amazing singer (I know right)
7.) They say that he has sacrificed everything and he knows what he is doing.

What I don't get is why can't facts just speak for itself? There is simply no logic going on there, it is completely emotional and devoid of any thought, nor knowledge. Just to address a few of the above.

1.) Whether the cross-over project helped people or not is not the point, to be certain the number of people helped is something we can't measure by money, but again this is missing the point. The point is that the cross-over project is being used a conduit to channel funds to fund Sun Ho's music career outside the church. Which is not what a CHARITY is supposed to do. Hello, how did anyone miss out the whole point of this, which was why the Commission of CHARITIES is involved. If Kong Hee is running a private enterprise, he also needs to be accountable to his stakeholders on where exactly the monies goes to, what more a charity.

2.) No they don't period. What else is there to say about this?

3.) Now someone wrote to CoC which you can read it here alleging CoC has defamed CHC. They are really misunderstanding the definition of defamation. CoC wrote about what they found after investigation and one cannot allege defamation for something that is true based on investigations. They can contend this in court, but you CANNOT allege it to be defamatory.


What struck me how CHC goers appears to worship Kong Hee the pastor, and forget that he is not god (whether I believe god exist is not the focus of this article). The way they jump to his defense without even listening to logic is very scary. It is as if Kong Hee is infallible and he is perfect. Even if ALL evidence confronted shows him to be guilty, they will still insist it is otherwise, it is a conspiracy and all that jazz.

Why do people behave like this? Cognitive dissonance. It actually helps explain a lot of things, but in this case, it is the classic case study. What is cognitive dissonance? It is that uncomfortable feeling we get when our very firm beliefs are challenged or in conflict, and in that situation, what usually happens is that people will justify away whatever was challenging their beliefs. The most famous documentation of this was a doomsday cult who sincerely believed the world would end on a particular day, and when it didn't end, they believed their religion even more - that they have been kept alive to spread the word of their religion.

This is playing out in the same way here: CHC goers have been led to believe stories about Kong Hee and their church, and at this moment in time, despite being confronted with evidence, CHC goers cannot reconcile this with their beliefs - and we don't need to guess which way they went.

But why do people so follow CHC and Kong Hee with such 'conviction' and I am using this word very loosely here? In psych and communication classes, we study persuasion techniques of cults to convince people to join them and stick with them. It is honestly a few common techniques, which you will recognize very quickly as something CHC does:

People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
They receive what seems to be unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader or group;
They get a new identity based on the group;
They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.


Familiar? I guess so, and during his sermons and preaches, you will recognize hypnotizing techniques which can be used to suggest and convince people of things they may not otherwise do so:
Minimize distraction and make the subjects feel comfortable
Tell the subjects to concentrate on something specific, like an imagined scene
Tells the subject what to expect, such as relaxation, or jubilation or etc.
Tell the subject what sensation or events he knows will occur, like "your eyes are getting tired", which the subject will interpret as caused by the hypnotist suggestion and accepts them as an indication that something is happening, this increase in expectation that the hypnotist will make things happen in the future makes the person even more susceptible.
And I have been hypnotized as part of a school experiment before and I can tell you that it certainly feels like that.




I hope this sheds light on why they are behaving in the way that they are, and like my lovely senior Chang says, the actual victims are CHC goers, but they just do not realize it.

I burst out laughing about it when i read it above. Sorry if it offends CHC members. Sorry, I can't help laughing about it when reading it.

I think that CHC members need to read that verse - Acts 14:8-15
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:

The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,

Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.

And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:


Paul and other apostles begged other people to treat them as normal beings, not gods.

So Kong Hee ought to be treated as human beings by CHC members. It's time for Kong Hee to tell them. If not, it is obvious.

[ponpokku]

Haagen Diaz wrote:

Maybe at homes like cellgroups or underground?

do u know that the last 5 ROC presidents are all christians?

so the ROC prez went underground?