HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

The USA presidential electorial system is stuck in pre-1861?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 29-08-2017, 12:55 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
cherry6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,766
Smile The USA presidential electorial system is stuck in pre-1861?

The USA presidential electorial system is stuck in pre-1861?

Anyway, what i think/ my SUSPICION about the USA electoral collage system is that it is an anachronistic system stuck in the post civil war years whereby the FASTEST form of ANY USA intra continental COMMUNICATION pre1861 then involved at best, continuous postal service travel vz continuous relay horseback riders to cross the continent to deliver electorial votes to washington in 10days at best ('pony express').
As usual, the means of secure info transmission, beside stamp and rubber seal etc would involve sending multiple coppies of the same document vz alternative routes to the same address so any hijacking / fraud enroute can be detected and rectified etc.

BUT none of the more modern technology like even the telegraph had been invented yet.

Thus the impossibility of actual voter numbers could be transmitted due to the possibility of innumerable disputes arising from vote count numbers (adding an additional digit 'zero' to a count would multiply votes by factor of 10 etc): thus the simplistic option of either a yes or no reply: each state having to decide on just ONE candidate without any subdivision according to individual voter preference.

Democratic voting methods need to be updated according to technological improvements, unfortunately, the USA presidential voting system seems to have been stuck in the historical era of George Washington.

That is why the American political system is getting more and more UNSTABLE as time goes on.

========
Morse system
In the United States, the Morse/Vail telegraph was quickly deployed in the two decades following the first demonstration. The overland telegraph connected the west coast of the continent to the east coast by 24 October 1861, bringing an end to the Pony Express.[30]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_telegraph
__________________
As punctually as Sun rises, God's Love shines brightly over all Creation, at all times of a day.

Last edited by cherry6; 29-08-2017 at 01:02 PM..
cherry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2017, 03:55 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
cherry6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,766
Media-Fed Blind partisanism surely plays a larger roll.
Granted, the EC System helps foster the partisanism, for Presidential Races, but our system as a whole, is more devastated by partisanism.
Personally, i feel that the greatest flaw is the outdated electoral college system which uses the winner take all counting method due to its antiquated pre 1861 state voting result-communication methods.

Such a grossly inaccurate counting method (by modern standards) is what gives rise to all sorts of impostors and dishonest tradesmen with less than honourable motives to exploit giant loopholes in prez election system.

What is happening now is like voting vz show of hands, between candidate A vs B with a winner take all result that is as UNPREDICTABLE as it is grossly INACCURATE : thus the natural reaction by a majority of citizens to be disillusioned with the electoral system and actually treat it like a joke.

If no action is made to stabilise the foundation, any possible proximate cause like wind, rain, earthquake or even a heavy vibrating air cooling system will demolish the house. The current USA presidential electorial system is designed premised upon the communications limitations circa pre 1861 where all cross continent communications vz the fastest communications method ('pony express') took 10 days to accomplish.

A redesign of the presidential vote counting method is OVERDUE by more than a century and a half. Or else, American vote counting methods is seriously ailing and outdated and urgently needs a review.
cherry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 05:40 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
cherry6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,766
Who ever said the U.S. Is a true Democracy? Never was and never should be. True Democracy is the dream of collectivists and Communists. I was taught that we are a Republican Democracy. A system of government based on laws to be adhered to by the masses. Two wolves and a sheep sitting down to discuss what is for dinner is the nature of a "true democracy". It isn't any wonder the left always calls for it!
I just hope that 'Republican democracy' isn't a matter of "Two wolves and a sheep sitting down" to decide the recipie for dinner (i.e. the law of the land).

U make the USA in its current constitution sound like a giant sorority club with protectionist rules, that also has arcane vote counting methods that remain buried in the era of dependence upon smoke signal communications ... which is hardly reassuring to the rest of the world.

I think using the current arcane vote counting methods, the Republicans are happy with it because in the last two presidential elections, they managed to win, but though they may temporarily be beneficiaries of this anachronism, their fortunes may easily change at the flip of the coin...
cherry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2017, 12:29 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
cherry6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,766
I was not referring to the Presidential election, but the implications eliminating the EC would have elsewhere. Urban areas vote for liberals, and the number of Congressmen representing, for instance Los Angeles, would be cut in half once Congressional districts ONLY represented eligible voters.

There's a million illegal immigrants in Los Angeles county which are currently represented, not to mention hundreds of thousands of felons and resident aliens. Not to mention that it's irrelevant because a Constitutional amendment requires a vast majority of states, and Wyoming and Alaska ain't about to vote against their best interests.
Thanks for your reply although u have since included new facts which only diminish the honour and authority of the USA political system.

According to what u say that the allocations vz Electoral College determines the congressmen a state may send to the House of Representatives ('House'), and the number of representatives is dependent on the population of eligible voters PLUS illegal immigrants (perhaps slaves included); then one would stand to argue that the states in which there are the most slaves, convicted felons would be what decides the direction of the USA!

As I have mentioned, the USA seems like one big self entitled sorority club, and certainly, this doesn't give the rest of the world much confidence about USA ability to lead the world. ... if not evidenced by the smoke signals (pre1861) based technology to total up presidential votes; then the obviously biased manner of allocating voter eligibility and the congressmen per state according to obviously skew/ biased Electoral College census method.
cherry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 04:49 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
cherry6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,766
Obsolete and outdated USA vote counting method is a DANGER to the world.
You realize that the allocation of electoral college votes doesn't require, or even allow, "voters" to have a say, right? As a practical matter, all 50 States have adopted that method, and most, but not all, use the "winner take all" method. But there is nothing that requires that. The State Legislature could decide to use ANY method they chose, the flip of a coin for example, or even only having the Legislature itself vote on the Electors. There is no right for the average person to have a vote at all.
I STILL THINK that the way electoral college votes are totalled and the result transmitted to Washington dc for the determination of whom should be president is more a product of LIMITATION BY DESIGN to the pre-1861 state of available communications technology (i.e. smoke signals, pony express mail service in the era BEFORE telegraph service) and perhaps the infant democracy that the USA was at (blacks and women weren't allowed to vote).

Why else would a state not accede to accurate transmission of data to the benefit of minority interest but either due to TECHNOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS of the contemporary period or else because many states were ruled by BULLIES who would gratuitously (indecently/corruptly) exploit minority interest in favour of their majority rule. I am already being very lenient in blaming technological limitations for the perceivable injustice since to label state leaderships of being rogue BULLIES would be most incriminating. Costs of elections were also a concern so the focus was on state legislature, the vote for president having much lesser concern since USA was more concerned about intra-contentinental issues with few if any global concerns.

Perhaps the fact that state legislatures across all states (to my knowledge) opt for statewide voter participation in presidential elections (rather than flipping a coin as u mentioned) alludes to the fact that contemporary justice supported by modern technological progress, the GROWING AMBIT OF GLOBAL ROLE OF USA PRESIDENT, demand for as widespread voter participation as possible. Both technological availability and voter interest mandate that a national vote BEYOND the election of mere state legislators be conducted.

The 'winner take all' casino like manner of electoral college votes reporting for presidential elections only serves to fuel extremes of citizen emotions, from rabid activism to apathetic absenteeism as 'my vote won't count': which itself adds fuel to creating divisions within a nation/ federation. The current method of USA presidential vote counting remains an anachronism of our time and urgently needs reform if the USA is to remain a leading thought/policy leader in the world, rather than an OBSOLETE /spent force, or a bully which others need to teach discipline to and be put back to its original humble place.

Last edited by cherry6; 06-09-2017 at 10:34 PM..
cherry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2017, 10:11 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 53
Actually, it seems to work as intended. Large population centers, which are different cultures within the vast 50 states, are limited in their power. Those in NYC have different sets of morals/lives than those of the fly over states. Just because a state has more population, doesn't mean it's more important or their votes should foundationally count for more. Rather the system diffuses power over all the states in an attempt to account for the needs/views of the states as a whole. Rather than a concentrated affair.
laughterjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-09-2017, 04:15 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
cherry6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,766
Actually, it seems to work as intended. Large population centers, which are different cultures within the vast 50 states, are limited in their power. Those in NYC have different sets of morals/lives than those of the fly over states. Just because a state has more population, doesn't mean it's more important or their votes should foundationally count for more. Rather the system diffuses power over all the states in an attempt to account for the needs/views of the states as a whole. Rather than a concentrated affair.
I very much AGREE with u in so far as votes for Senate positions are allocated and counted (every state has just 2 seats regardless of population size with one exception of 3 seats iirc).

BUT for president, popular vote should be counted as it is counted for congress (lower house) seats... In fact, popular votes for president are ALREADY counted/ measured (which is how/why we know that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote), just that by OBSOLETE DESIGN, the presidency of the USA is still stuck in the pre-1861 era of horseback postage delivery and smoke signals communication.

Which just goes to reveal the fact that USA is perhaps stuck in the era where internal affairs like slavery and civil war are the contemporary concerns rather than any significant participation at the level of the UN or the world stage.

Last edited by cherry6; 18-09-2017 at 07:06 PM..
cherry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On