HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Difference in Big 4 and small audit firm

Like Tree25Likes
Share This Page
HardwareZone.com on Facebook
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-11-2006, 06:25 PM   #46
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 140

Guess that the way they think is seriously flawed. by having that statement made, i guess they have done a discredit to SMU or any other Accounting Graduates as they might be academically good but since their course is not of an honours course, perhaps not provided by the institution, they lose out to the NTU graduates whereby NTU Bachelor of Accounting comes with a straight Honours program.

Also, by using the word, less able counterparts, is the goverment trying to put to the minds of the public that only those with Honours are better abled and competent than a degree graduate?

In my opinion, with the above quote extracted, One may not be academically inclined and hence not a first class honours grad but he can be still a competent and share equal or higher capability in terms of the working world as compared to the honour grad. Similarly, the honour grad although performed well academically, when he comes to working, he might not be as good. Hence the words less able counterparts is misleading an a defamation. It insults the normal grad and belittle them!

By the way, when is the article published?
You do have a point there. but it is also true that the best accounting students don really want to go into audit. they will be mainly gunning for investment banking, Top MNCs or civil service (Eg Accountant's Generals Dept).

the issue is that some top employers (Govt, banks, MNCs) take your honours grade very seriously as they feel that it is a good measure of cognitive abilities. Of course they also look into other aspects eg EQ and CCAS.

Actually i feel that the starting pay is not the real issue as u do surpass your peers in 3 years time. the ISSUE is the "STRESS and Horrible Hours" that is driving people out.
redoctober83 is offline  
Old 01-11-2006, 06:38 PM   #47
Supremacy Member
 
delay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 8,663
fact of the matter is auditors are nv going to get investment banker's pay.
so rising salaries wont be the way out if thats how u intend to get ppl in.
i agree they should instead tackle on the stess and the hours instead
IB's stress might be higher than an auditor's (arguable if u ask me haha) but the hours certainly match (hey we only have 24 hours each no matter how u stretch ur own time)

so what cuts?
x hours, poor pay, x hours, high pay (esp the bonus)
u dun need an honours to figure this one out
__________________
What is art?
delay is offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 08:47 AM   #48
High Supremacy Member
 
warr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 29,238
well, it certainly is the case with any job comparison.
A stressed programmer may put in as many hours as, if not more than, a CEO does, but the pay comparison is simply for laughs. It is capitalism. Some people who travel around just talking and having fun may earn much more than a 23-7 worker who faces the stress both from the boss and from his/her own family. Sympathy does not command money.
warr is offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 09:46 AM   #49
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 273
You are not comparing apples with apples.

We are talking about the disparate salaries/working hours/prospects that a fresh grad from accountancy can expect in his/her first few years from different job options.

That's not the same as the difference in hours and pay between a programmer and ceo.

Comparing a D24 durain with its Thailand variant makes sense; comparing it with a fuji apple doesn't
cocopong is offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 02:36 PM   #50
High Supremacy Member
 
warr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 29,238
if u compare accountants and investment bankers, you are comparing apples to bananas.
warr is offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 03:35 PM   #51
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 273
we are comparing the alternative careers that are available to a good accounting grad, including the salary, working houors and prospects.

The perspective is that of a recent accountancy grad, and the objects of comparison are the various job options. So we are comparing about BEING an accountant to BEING an investment banker, with particular emphasis on the word "BEING".

This is different from comparing accountants with investment bankers, or programmer with ceo, who clearly are NOT a recent accountancy grad.

Do you always jibber jabber without thinking? Or do you just like to make up random, and often wrong statements like "buffett and graham were at Wharton" on the spot just for the kick of it?
cocopong is offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 04:10 PM   #52
Master Member
 
Corny_Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,141
this thread like go off topic liao hor?
lol

aniwae, how much can an accountant earn after 3 yrs?
keep seeing pple toking abt high pay after 3 yrs.
__________________
http://www.agentchat.sg/forum.php

The first forum for Property Agents in Singapore!
Corny_Cow is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 09:07 AM   #53
High Supremacy Member
 
warr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 29,238
we are comparing the alternative careers that are available to a good accounting grad, including the salary, working houors and prospects.

The perspective is that of a recent accountancy grad, and the objects of comparison are the various job options. So we are comparing about BEING an accountant to BEING an investment banker, with particular emphasis on the word "BEING".

This is different from comparing accountants with investment bankers, or programmer with ceo, who clearly are NOT a recent accountancy grad.

Do you always jibber jabber without thinking? Or do you just like to make up random, and often wrong statements like "buffett and graham were at Wharton" on the spot just for the kick of it?

i didn't reply to your lame post above, so why did u reply to mine if u find it not replying to yours?

now clearly explain to us what "B-E-I-N-G" is, professor.
warr is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 10:48 AM   #54
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 246
we are comparing the alternative careers that are available to a good accounting grad, including the salary, working houors and prospects.

The perspective is that of a recent accountancy grad, and the objects of comparison are the various job options. So we are comparing about BEING an accountant to BEING an investment banker, with particular emphasis on the word "BEING".

This is different from comparing accountants with investment bankers, or programmer with ceo, who clearly are NOT a recent accountancy grad.

Do you always jibber jabber without thinking? Or do you just like to make up random, and often wrong statements like "buffett and graham were at Wharton" on the spot just for the kick of it?
u sibei tokcok leh go aniwere wan to fight ppl u head sort cct issit, tok cok say u dun tok cok leh tok here tok there u wan proof simi?

I say:" DUN TOK COK lar!"
TokCOK is offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:13 AM   #55
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 273
"u sibei tokcok leh go aniwere wan to fight ppl u head sort cct issit, tok cok say u dun tok cok leh tok here tok there u wan proof simi?" If you cannnot write proper English, then don't waste the forum space by posting jibber jabbers like this. And do you always blame others for things you don't understand? Gee... you must beleading a pretty sad life...

"i didn't reply to your lame post above, so why did u reply to mine if u find it not replying to yours?" What jibber jabber is this? First you fabricate your own facts, then you join in a discussion when you have nothing to contribute, and totally miss the point of the discussion. Now you are writing sentences worse than a P6 kid.

"now clearly explain to us what "B-E-I-N-G" is, professor. " I changed my mind: yoou are actually worse than a P4 kid.

Bunch of loquacious losers.
cocopong is offline  
Old 26-11-2006, 11:07 PM   #56
Member
 
marcuz1977's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 118
Why don't we hightlight the difference between the big 4 in Singapore?

I will start first.

PwC - Hardest to get in.
Major advantage:
1. Not a lot of OT to do.
2. Gentle learning curve. Way too gentle sometimes. Good for slow and steady people who are not in a hurry to learn.
3. Will pay for CPA Australia exam fees

Major disadvantage -
1. laptops are not the most up-to-date models and
2. not much OT to clock.
3. the hardest of the big 4 to get in. There are mini-EY, DT, KPMG clubs there. i.e. most of other Big 3 people wants to get into PWC.
4. cold culture where its difficult to know many friends. In other Big 3, the cultures are "warmer" and you can have many friends.
5. seniors have no portfolio and still need to do field work.
6. if its raining, most prob will be wet cos you are expose to the weather for quite a bit when you walk from the MRT station to office.

Other issues:
Dental benefit $200 per year.
Heard pay adjustment is coming in Jan 2007

KPMG
Major advantage -
1. has the most number of bank clients.
2. the only big 4 to have a community day where you spend one whole day doing meaningful community work.
3. the only big 4 to give the assistants a trolley bag to carry the audit files
4. the only big 4 to be awarded the Worklife Balance Award given by MOM
5. the only big 4 to give free country club memberships to senior and above

Major disadvantage -
1. The only big 4 with cap on maximum amount of OT hours clockable per year. Cap at 260 hrs <my friends in DT can clock up to 400++ hours per year>
2. Can only take taxi home after 11.30pm All other Big 3 timing is 8.30pm

Other issues:
$100 per year dental
Their office is in Hong Leong Building, the oldest building used by the Big 4.

EY
Major advantage:
1. highest salary for assistant to senior level. $100 more per level
2. biggest audit firm in Singapore
3. 15 days of annual leave for fresh grad
4. shifting to new office at brandnew 1st Raffles Quay soon.

Major disadvantage:
1. Lots of SMEs

Other issues:
1. Dental is $200 per year

DT
Major advantage:
1. Lots of Japanese clients
2. Has the biggest Singapore-listed job - Singtel
3. Cheapest access to gym. Pay $2 per month only.

Major disadvantage:
1. limited subsidiary on medical visits

Other issues:
$100 per year dental
Recently recruited 20 seniors from PwC. Interesting development.
==================

Disclaimer: The above information may not be fully updated. It is for discussion purpose only. Use the above information at your own risk.

Last edited by marcuz1977; 27-11-2006 at 07:43 AM..
marcuz1977 is offline  
Old 26-11-2006, 11:57 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,307
u sibei tokcok leh go aniwere wan to fight ppl u head sort cct issit, tok cok say u dun tok cok leh tok here tok there u wan proof simi?

I say:" DUN TOK COK lar!"

LOL PLS SCROLL DOWN























































































YOU ARE A LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
perosoka is offline  
Old 27-11-2006, 01:41 PM   #58
Arch-Supremacy Member
 
direbmem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,859
Here is the relevant extract from the Straits times Money Section (28 Oct 06)

Accounting Firms urged to review hiring policy to retain talent
Practice of same starting pay for all is causing talent drain - says minister

A fresh graduate with a general degree joining an accounting firm can expect to take home the same pay package as another who achieved first class honours

this one size fits all hiring policy should be reviewed to stem a talent drain from the accounting profession, Mrs Lim Hwee Hua, the Minister of State for Finance and Transport, said yesterday.

Every year, the Big Four firms soak up the majority of the close to 1,000 fresh graduates coming from NTU and SMU. It is understood that the practice among Deloitte & Touche, Ernst & Young, KPMG and Pricewaterhouse Coopers has been to pay these fresh graduates roughly the same regardless of how well they performed academically...

She said " I would urge accounting firms to start reviewing their hiring policies so as to avoid losing top accounting graduates to other industries. Other wise, we may have a situation where the brightest accountants work in other sectors and are, in turn, audited by their less able counterparts."

...........
wtf..meaning only poly students should work for sim wong hoo???degree grads as they are more capable than mr sim shd not take instructions from him...???1st class hinours pple shdnt work under bosses who are second lower??
direbmem is offline  
Old 27-11-2006, 08:17 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 598
Take it easy... Is from our Elite Minister. What you expect?
jianfish is offline  
Old 27-11-2006, 09:49 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
rs_ong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,558
Why don't we hightlight the difference between the big 4 in Singapore?

I will start first.

PwC - Hardest to get in.
Major advantage:
1. Not a lot of OT to do.
2. Gentle learning curve. Way too gentle sometimes. Good for slow and steady people who are not in a hurry to learn.
3. Will pay for CPA Australia exam fees

Major disadvantage -
1. laptops are not the most up-to-date models and
2. not much OT to clock.
3. the hardest of the big 4 to get in. There are mini-EY, DT, KPMG clubs there. i.e. most of other Big 3 people wants to get into PWC.
4. cold culture where its difficult to know many friends. In other Big 3, the cultures are "warmer" and you can have many friends.
5. seniors have no portfolio and still need to do field work.
6. if its raining, most prob will be wet cos you are expose to the weather for quite a bit when you walk from the MRT station to office.

Other issues:
Dental benefit $200 per year.
Heard pay adjustment is coming in Jan 2007

KPMG
Major advantage -
1. has the most number of bank clients.
2. the only big 4 to have a community day where you spend one whole day doing meaningful community work.
3. the only big 4 to give the assistants a trolley bag to carry the audit files
4. the only big 4 to be awarded the Worklife Balance Award given by MOM
5. the only big 4 to give free country club memberships to senior and above

Major disadvantage -
1. The only big 4 with cap on maximum amount of OT hours clockable per year. Cap at 260 hrs <my friends in DT can clock up to 400++ hours per year>
2. Can only take taxi home after 11.30pm All other Big 3 timing is 8.30pm

Other issues:
$100 per year dental
Their office is in Hong Leong Building, the oldest building used by the Big 4.

EY
Major advantage:
1. highest salary for assistant to senior level. $100 more per level
2. biggest audit firm in Singapore
3. 15 days of annual leave for fresh grad
4. shifting to new office at brandnew 1st Raffles Quay soon.

Major disadvantage:
1. Lots of SMEs

Other issues:
1. Dental is $200 per year

DT
Major advantage:
1. Lots of Japanese clients
2. Has the biggest Singapore-listed job - Singtel
3. Cheapest access to gym. Pay $2 per month only.

Major disadvantage:
1. limited subsidiary on medical visits

Other issues:
$100 per year dental
Recently recruited 20 seniors from PwC. Interesting development.
==================

Disclaimer: The above information may not be fully updated. It is for discussion purpose only. Use the above information at your own risk.
seemed to be the most informative post in this thread high lighting the differences. any other netizen can confirm with this?
__________________
[SIZE=1]one learns better when he takes action,
and learns best when he suffers for it.[/SIZE]
rs_ong is offline  
Closed Thread
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On