NUS Pharmacy

h0lyseer

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You are fucking kidding me. Even up to this point, you still want to argue and defend your position, without even using any point of reference as well, instead of taking a step back and start reconsidering your position. I know you are already into pharmacy school, but it isn't too late to change course or plan for an alternative route the moment you graduate. But instead you want to come here and defend your stance to assuage your cognitive dissonance?

You have no idea how employment rate is calculated. Pharmacy employment rate used to be 100% only just a while back. Does this means no one go study, no one go start business, etc? No, these people are considered 100% gainfully employed, so doctors who do these things do not affect their employment rate at all. The low employment of pharmacist only shows that these fresh grads are unable to find a gig after graduation and also are unable to find an alternate path be it go study, go start business etc.

I don't know why you are comparing a doctor and lawyer's work hours vs a pharmacist. The whole point here is that as a lawyer and doctor, you will be well compensated for the hard work you put in. As a pharmacist, you work real hard for peanuts.

You posts are not at all consistent with anyone who have any experience. Only your cognitive dissonance can see this as consistency when just about every message posted goes against you. You see why I have to be totally crude with my online postings? If I simply posted harsh messages here, your lame brain will simply twist it as if I am agreeing with you. I have to attack your character for you to get the shock you need to wake the fuck up.

This also goes to show your weak mindset and your inability to adapt and make adjustments with changing information. Being such a strawberry, you will be pwned easily by foreigners.

The only point that they brought up would be employment rate.(which I did agree with them with regards to the increasing oversaturation of Pharmacists) They didn't comment on other points that I have brought up.

And you don't get compensated fairly for being a Pharmacists? You have a decent job, a relatively high starting pay. $3k+ to you may be peanuts for a starting pay but it may mean the world to someone else. Not everyone is as privileged as you.

Why do I bring in Lawyers? I ain't comparing their work hours, but the similarity of the situation that Pharmacists and Lawyers are both facing. They are straight A students as well, but they are having difficulty finding law firms to aid them in their training contract or employment. Their training contract isn't 100% anymore, employment isn't 100% for fresh grads, no guaranteed employment after training(Doesn't this case sound similar) Is that any fair for them? Only those who worked their ass off get compensated fairly.

Many Straight A students still apply for law because of their passion and interests. It is perfectly alright to do that and it would help prospective students by being supportive of their decision. As such, I used an encouraging tone in my previous post but neither did I force them to join pharmacy Nor did I feed them with incorrect, inconsistent information without any sources. This is if you let go off your judgemental biasness.
 
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Kuudere

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Are you sure this is my parent's fault? Or maybe it is you and your parent's fault for voting for a government that created such a healthcare system?

Kind of agree with you on the nasty healthcare system. So many reasons just to get out of here to overseas,for better career prospects. Even as a prospective physician,I don't see much potential in working over here. Long working hours,poor work life balance.

It is interesting to note that, students with B/Cs are eligible to apply for pharmacy overseas and work there or come back to work here. Why is there that disparity,compared to near perfect As in Sg?

Some careers are just overglorified for what it is. The disparity in grades highlights it even further. Why do people go for it? The main thing is perceived impression of good career prospects(might be misinformed on that) or doing for interest/passion.

I think the sciences degree in NUS is even worse given that they have lower entry requirements,because if anyone gets in there,they just have to go for a graduate degree or do something entirely different.(I am at that stage now,hope to do graduate medical school eventually) The employment rate for science graduate is even worse here.

Main things to ask yourself:
1.Need
2.Practical
3.Want

If it is just 3,you are in for some beating up.(passion/interest) Let me illustrate this,for me,I need my degree to get to graduate medical school because I didn't fare that well for As,the degree isn't practical and not really what I want. Usually people who can get in pharmacy,they can choose what they want,practical career,apart from just settling on their needs.
 

kaldorei204

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The only point that they brought up would be employment rate.(which I did agree with them with regards to the increasing oversaturation of Pharmacists) They didn't comment on other points that I have brought up.

And you don't get compensated fairly for being a Pharmacists? You have a decent job, a relatively high starting pay. $3k+ to you may be peanuts for a starting pay but it may mean the world to someone else. Not everyone is as privileged as you.

Why do I bring in Lawyers? I ain't comparing their work hours, but the similarity of the situation that Pharmacists and Lawyers are both facing. They are straight A students as well, but they are having difficulty finding law firms to aid them in their training contract or employment. Their training contract isn't 100% anymore, employment isn't 100% for fresh grads, no guaranteed employment after training(Doesn't this case sound similar) Is that any fair for them? Only those who worked their ass off get compensated fairly.

Many Straight A students still apply for law because of their passion and interests. It is perfectly alright to do that and it would help prospective students by being supportive of their decision. As such, I used an encouraging tone in my previous post but neither did I force them to join pharmacy Nor did I feed them with incorrect, inconsistent information without any sources. This is if you let go off your judgemental biasness.

lol. what points are you referring to?
 

kaldorei204

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Read our past exchange on this page, ain't difficult to scroll back lols!

lol. why dont you save both of us the trouble and just list down the points you wanna make. I am sure you can list those points easily. Besides, you have so many posts, I have no idea which are the points you wanna highlight
 
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h0lyseer

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lol. why dont you save both of us the trouble and just list down the points you wanna make. I am sure you can list those points easily. Besides, you have so many posts, I have no idea which are the points you wanna highlight

Scroll down I don't wish to continue.

Purplestarz, From your recent posts, you don't think you are in the wrong, Nor do I. As such our conversation will only be an endless cycle and will not stop. As such I will be the more mature adult, and end this pointless squabble as well as your crude/toxic comments that will paint both of our occupation in bad light.

If it makes you feel any better, I apologise if I had offended you in any way but I am NOT admitting that I was wrong.
 

kaldorei204

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Scroll down I don't wish to continue.

Purplestarz, From your recent posts, you don't think you are in the wrong, Nor do I. As such our conversation will only be an endless cycle and will not stop. As such I will be the more mature adult, and end this pointless squabble as well as your crude/toxic comments that will paint both of our occupation in bad light.

If it makes you feel any better, I apologise if I had offended you in any way but I am NOT admitting that I was wrong.

lol. to be honest, i have no personal grudge against you. BUT i find it highly amusing at how you first painted such a beautiful picture of the prospects as a pharmacist before changing your tune when confronted with evidence by people in the know.

Yeah I know, all professions are challenging and oversaturated but i think you should have at the very least give a more realistic (read: updated and average) picture of the profession. At the very least, prospective students know what they are getting into.
 
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h0lyseer

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lol. to be honest, i have no personal grudge against you. BUT i find it highly amusing at how you first painted such a beautiful picture of the prospects as a pharmacist before changing your tune when confronted with evidence by people in the know.

Yeah I know, all professions are challenging and over-saturated but i think you should have at the very least give a more realistic (read: updated and average) picture of the profession. At the very least, prospective students know what they are getting into.

Firstly, I have not changed my stance that being a pharmacist is a great career. As a recent grad like yrself, Are you denying that just because you become Pharmacists, Pharmacists have very limited prospects? You can't go into the pharmaceutical industry? You can't go into sales? You can't run specialized clinics? You don't earn a lot of money? You are stuck in the shithole which the doctor have pointed out?

Like you've pointed out, every industry has its own problems and worries and like what I've said in my earlier post, no matter the industry you join in, hard work after graduating from university will allow you to be successful regardless of the industry you are in. Not once have I encouraged students to join this career even in my initial post. AND if you can't detect the sarcasm in my later posts then i am sorry.

I have not painted anything beautiful about this career, mind you. I noted the opportunities that a Pharmacists can have. Painting this career beautiful would mean 100% employment rate, 100% training slots and serve me no purpose. I did point out about the lack of recognition and over-saturation that Pharmacists face, the decrease in future cohort sizes, didn't I?

Secondly, you assumed that I do not have current information of this industry. I do think I have rather updated information about this industry. A certain someone recently got a grant from MOH to increase the number of pre-reg Training slots no? Certain training institutions are opening up training slots, no? New Hospitals and healthcare institutes are opening up = more Pharmacists employment, no? Cohort size will decrease, no? These aren't updated facts? A pharmacist like yourself should know the details of these things.

Next, everyone has different perspective of each profession. I like this profession very much. $3k+ starting pay means a lot to me, the job scope and prospect of being a pharmacist is already very high but many don't seem to appreciate this fact. Is it wrong to be happy about this and share my views with others and as such attack my character because of that?
You may disagree with my opinions and I am happy to discuss it with you, not when you spew out derogatory comments about me or another's profession, which the doctor did.

As such, the only tone change I used was with the rude doctor on this forum, mind you.
I have worked with many who like what they are doing in pharmacy and have been working happily in this profession.

Lastly, what's more worrying would be a Pharmacist like yourself choosing to be more amused at the "tone" that i used and to allow someone like the doctor to talk down about this profession, OUR profession.

(Adding on..)
What I initially intended was to help answer the student's queries when no one seemed to come in and help. If this had not became so big of a thread, would you, kaldorei204 or any other pharmacist, have bothered creating an account to answer that student's query? Ask yourself this question truthfully.
I tried to deliver my honest, down-to-earth opinions along with the opinions from experienced pharmacists that I know of about this profession as well as my personal experiences yet I was branded as "not honest", "humorous" by pharmacists who are in the toughest pre-reg phase and firmly believe and convinced that no1 will enjoy this industry because of their experiences and because I said nothing bad about this industry. When in actual fact, if anyone read my previous posts properly, rather than jumping the gun it did capture most if not everything of what the 2 grad pharmacists have pointed out. I will firmly end this off here and will no longer comment on this thread since nothing of mine was appreciated.

Like I have posted before, I do hope future prospective students go down and experience what its like in the industry to aid you in your decision and not be deterred to pursue your passion. A pharmacist is equally as important as any other occupation in the healthcare sector.
 
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campoix

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I have a good friend with a recent graduate, and that's what (s)he says:

1. Bell curve is very steep because many are straight A students but were rejected by Medicine and Dentistry. Hence, a lot of muggers (can be good or bad).

2. Supply of graduates > Demand. While all secure the 9 month trainee positions after graduation, one organisation (not naming) has made it clear that the they have an oversupply of pharmacists and will NOT employ them after they have received the licences. In fact, the organisation screwed them up BIG time just recently. Not going to say what happened but can ask around if interested.

3. Tons of memorising. Chemistry must be solid A+++.

4. A tightly-knitted cohort.

5. Lessons are SO long. 4/5 morning to evening day work week for the first 7 semesters.

6. Impossible to do semester exchange, unless summer or winter ones (i.e. during the holidays).
 

kaldorei204

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Firstly, I have not changed my stance that being a pharmacist is a great career. As a recent grad like yrself, Are you denying that just because you become Pharmacists, Pharmacists have very limited prospects? You can't go into the pharmaceutical industry? You can't go into sales? You can't run specialized clinics? You don't earn a lot of money? You are stuck in the shithole which the doctor have pointed out?

Let's look at the options of a registered pharmacist in the industry.
1. Regulatory: Paperwork but limited job openings, low turnover rates and lack of willingness by company to train newbies makes it hard to enter. Guess what happens when there is oversaturation of pharmacists?!
2. Sales: Sucking up to egoistic individuals.
3. Pharmacovigilance: Guess who is in charge... doctors again!

And you don't need a pharmacy license to do regulatory or sales as proven by the number of people with other degrees in these roles. And how do you even run a specialised clinic if you cannot secure a job in the hospital setting?

Like you've pointed out, every industry has its own problems and worries and like what I've said in my earlier post, no matter the industry you join in, hard work after graduating from university will allow you to be successful regardless of the industry you are in. Not once have I encouraged students to join this career even in my initial post. AND if you can't detect the sarcasm in my later posts then i am sorry.

I have not painted anything beautiful about this career, mind you. I noted the opportunities that a Pharmacists can have. Painting this career beautiful would mean 100% employment rate, 100% training slots and serve me no purpose. I did point out about the lack of recognition and over-saturation that Pharmacists face, the decrease in future cohort sizes, didn't I?

Yes. You did point out the oversaturation but did you do that in the first few posts? The doctor had to rudely point it out to you before you finally admitted there might be an oversaturation of pharmacists. (For example: I quote you "there are literally no Malaysians and Filipinos like you have mentioned, except those who studied in NUS, vying for our jobs." lol. If you work at a hospital, you would realise that almost half of them are Malaysians who studied at UK or Australia university before working in Sg? Heck, do you even know that most senior hospital pharmacists especially those in charge, are from Malaysia?)
PS: Do you even know why they are so widely sought after? Cos they can speak English, Malay, and Mandarin as well as possibly other dialects. Here is a protip for you: Go learn another language to boost your employability if you so strongly desire to pursue clinical pharmacy

Secondly, you assumed that I do not have current information of this industry. I do think I have rather updated information about this industry. Lita Chew got a recent grant from MOH to increase the number of pre-reg Training slots no? Certain training institutions are opening up training slots for non-scholar candidates, no? New Hospitals and healthcare institutes are opening up = more Pharmacists employment, no? Cohort size will decrease, no? These aren't updated facts?

Yeah man. Lita Chew got a grant to train them before telling them there is no space at her institute or other hospitals for registered pharmacists. New hospitals and healthcare institutes = more pharmacists employment? Sure bro. That is if NUS decides to discontinue the Pharmacy course in the next few years. Supply is always gonna outstrip demand.

Next, everyone has different perspective of each profession. I like this profession very much. $3k+ starting pay means a lot to me, the job scope and prospect of being a pharmacist is already very high but many don't seem to appreciate this fact. Is it wrong to be happy about this and share my views with others?
You may disagree with my opinions and I am happy to discuss it with you, not when you spew out derogatory comments about me or another's profession, which the doctor did.

As such, the only tone change I used was with the rude doctor on this forum, mind you.
I have worked with many who like what they are doing in pharmacy and have been working happily in this profession.

Lastly, what's more worrying would be a Pharmacist like yourself being amused at the "tone" that i used and allow someone like the doctor to talk down about this profession.

So how many years have you worked as a registered pharmacist? Or are you even one? I can do a simple survey of my cohort or even my workplace and although it is not scientific or a good representative of all pharmacists, I can assure you that most of them would never claim to be working happily. And NO, please stop quoting that 3k + starting pay. You start with 2k + starting pay as a pre-reg and only earn that 3k+ starting pay assuming you land a job after registration. :s13:
 
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kaldorei204

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Firstly, I have not changed my stance that being a pharmacist is a great career. As a recent grad like yrself, Are you denying that just because you become Pharmacists, Pharmacists have very limited prospects? You can't go into the pharmaceutical industry? You can't go into sales? You can't run specialized clinics? You don't earn a lot of money? You are stuck in the shithole which the doctor have pointed out?

Like you've pointed out, every industry has its own problems and worries and like what I've said in my earlier post, no matter the industry you join in, hard work after graduating from university will allow you to be successful regardless of the industry you are in. Not once have I encouraged students to join this career even in my initial post. AND if you can't detect the sarcasm in my later posts then i am sorry.

I have not painted anything beautiful about this career, mind you. I noted the opportunities that a Pharmacists can have. Painting this career beautiful would mean 100% employment rate, 100% training slots and serve me no purpose. I did point out about the lack of recognition and over-saturation that Pharmacists face, the decrease in future cohort sizes, didn't I?

Secondly, you assumed that I do not have current information of this industry. I do think I have rather updated information about this industry. A certain someone recently got a grant from MOH to increase the number of pre-reg Training slots no? Certain training institutions are opening up training slots, no? New Hospitals and healthcare institutes are opening up = more Pharmacists employment, no? Cohort size will decrease, no? These aren't updated facts? A pharmacist like yourself should know the details of these things.

Next, everyone has different perspective of each profession. I like this profession very much. $3k+ starting pay means a lot to me, the job scope and prospect of being a pharmacist is already very high but many don't seem to appreciate this fact. Is it wrong to be happy about this and share my views with others and as such attack my character because of that?
You may disagree with my opinions and I am happy to discuss it with you, not when you spew out derogatory comments about me or another's profession, which the doctor did.

As such, the only tone change I used was with the rude doctor on this forum, mind you.
I have worked with many who like what they are doing in pharmacy and have been working happily in this profession.

Lastly, what's more worrying would be a Pharmacist like yourself choosing to be more amused at the "tone" that i used and to allow someone like the doctor to talk down about this profession, OUR profession.

(Adding on..)
What I initially intended was to help answer the student's queries when no one seemed to come in and help. If this had not became so big of a thread, would you, kaldorei204 or any other pharmacist, have bothered creating an account to answer that student's query? Ask yourself this question truthfully.
I tried to deliver my honest, down-to-earth opinions along with the opinions from experienced pharmacists that I know of about this profession as well as my personal experiences yet I was branded as "not honest", "humorous" by pharmacists who are in the toughest pre-reg phase and firmly believe and convinced that no1 will enjoy this industry because of their experiences and because I said nothing bad about this industry. When in actual fact, if anyone read my previous posts properly, rather than jumping the gun it did capture most if not everything of what the 2 grad pharmacists have pointed out. I will firmly end this off here and will no longer comment on this thread since nothing of mine was appreciated.

Like I have posted before, I do hope future prospective students go down and experience what its like in the industry to aid you in your decision and not be deterred to pursue your passion. A pharmacist is equally as important as any other occupation in the healthcare sector.

Hey Purplestar, guess who took your advice to heart and decided to apply for medicine and got accepted there. Good job saving him from future regret/depression :s13: Check out this reddit user called h0lyseer.
 
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kaldorei204

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Wow, being a pharmacist is lowly? "I solemnly pledge to... respect my colleagues as my professional brothers and sisters .." Guess this Hippocratic Oath means nothing to a healthcare professional like yourself.

As I've mentioned, if you would like to continue with this debate in an amicable manner and not ramble on like a child, I will be glad to engage in that meaningful debate about this profession. If not, do continue this humiliating one man show of yours if you wish to. :)

PS. Freedom of speech on the internet has no repercussion? How cute and innocent :)

Lastly, I would like to congratulate H0lyseer on being accepted into Faculty of Medicine! I understand you are a transfer as well... Good choice, no doubt taking the words of purplestars to heart.

Good luck in your next profession! Not too late to switch since you're still schooling. :)

Evidence can be found on Reddit - 2017 University application season megathread. :s22:
 
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yuxdzx

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Interesting thread, but why are you all so angry? :mad:

Too late for me. Already accepted Pharmacy offer.
 

GoldenOreo

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Prospects of a junior doctor, especially the ones graduating in the coming years are not that good either. If the degree switch is indeed true, I hope he has actually done some research in finding out how long it will take to be fully qualified before actually committing to it. Not exactly sure if a degree switch will happen again once he finds out that doctoring isn't as glorified as he imagined.
 

h0lyseer

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Lastly, I would like to congratulate H0lyseer on being accepted into Faculty of Medicine! I understand you are a transfer as well... Good choice, no doubt taking the words of purplestars to heart.

Good luck in your next profession! Not too late to switch since you're still schooling. :)

Evidence can be found on Reddit - 2017 University application season megathread. :s22:

Wow! Ok let me add some info to your background check of me to prevent you or anyone like the user below from jumping to any conclusions. If you did dig deeper, a Friend of mine used my account to ask for a transfer. On this forum as well.(check my profile for the thread -> go to the thread -> my Friend commented eventually) If you would like such a background check, do check more precisely. And if you are quick to catch on, it was my Friend. Please, if you have the decency, leave my Friend out of this.

Anyways, I had enough out of this thread or this forum. The kind intended comments only garnered ill responses that Attack my character, even a background check on me and resort to attacking the user as well as implicating my Friend in this.

And since you think that I spoke too highly of this profession and deserve the crude comments given by the doctor (which somehow offended you), then I shall formally apologise for thinking too highly of this profession and giving this profession due respect. I also apologise for sharing my honest personal experiences/opinions as well as defending/respecting this profession. :)

i sincerely do hope that you would remain on this forum (rather than creating an account just to support purplestarz) so as to answer any potential students' enquiries lest anyone offends you by writing something positive about your career or defending it.
 
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kaldorei204

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Wow! Ok let me add some info to your background check of me to prevent you or anyone like the user below from jumping to any conclusions. If you did dig deeper, a Friend of mine used my account to ask for a transfer. On this forum as well.(check my profile for the thread -> go to the thread -> my Friend commented eventually) If you would like such a background check, do check more precisely. And if you are quick to catch on, it was my Friend. Please, if you have the decency, leave my Friend out of this.

Anyways, I had enough out of this thread or this forum. The kind intended comments only garnered ill responses that Attack my character, even a background check on me and resort to attacking the user as well as implicating my Friend in this.

And since you think that I spoke too highly of this profession and deserve the crude comments given by the doctor (which somehow offended you), then I shall formally apologise for thinking too highly of this profession and giving this profession due respect. I also apologise for sharing my honest personal experiences/opinions as well as defending/respecting this profession. :)

i sincerely do hope that you would remain on this forum (rather than creating an account just to support purplestarz) so as to answer any potential students' enquiries lest anyone offends you by writing something positive about your career or defending it.

I see! I hope you don't share your account with your "friend" in future then... Otherwise they won't know who to fire if you make med errors in the future like prescribing 1000 times the dose of linagliptin. We wouldn't want you to be accidentally implicated since you have soooo much passion for the profession.
 

evilsaigon

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I actually wished I had visited these kind of forums, before enrolling into this course 5 years ago. T.T It's good to see genuine opinions here, instead of relying on just officially published "propaganda" articles.

Actually, it'd be nice to hear opinions of those graduting in AY2018 and later. Cuz their syallbus went through the major overhaul, so I heard they are forced to overload taking 6-7 modules per semester, so that they can squeeze in pre-reg in year 4 instead. Seriously, what's going to happen to them when there are not enough pre-reg slots for all?

And I heard in further future, pharmacy will be split into clinical pharmacy, and pharmaceutical science, as 2 separate degrees. Maybe it might improve the employability of registered pharmacists, only if they cut the cohort size instead of expanding lol.
 

eddief4

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I actually wished I had visited these kind of forums, before enrolling into this course 5 years ago. T.T It's good to see genuine opinions here, instead of relying on just officially published "propaganda" articles.

Actually, it'd be nice to hear opinions of those graduting in AY2018 and later. Cuz their syallbus went through the major overhaul, so I heard they are forced to overload taking 6-7 modules per semester, so that they can squeeze in pre-reg in year 4 instead. Seriously, what's going to happen to them when there are not enough pre-reg slots for all?

And I heard in further future, pharmacy will be split into clinical pharmacy, and pharmaceutical science, as 2 separate degrees. Maybe it might improve the employability of registered pharmacists, only if they cut the cohort size instead of expanding lol.

What made you decide to pursue pharmacy? Was it a passion or just a case of "it's a straight A course so it must be a $$$ career?"
 

kaldorei204

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I actually wished I had visited these kind of forums, before enrolling into this course 5 years ago. T.T It's good to see genuine opinions here, instead of relying on just officially published "propaganda" articles.

Actually, it'd be nice to hear opinions of those graduting in AY2018 and later. Cuz their syallbus went through the major overhaul, so I heard they are forced to overload taking 6-7 modules per semester, so that they can squeeze in pre-reg in year 4 instead. Seriously, what's going to happen to them when there are not enough pre-reg slots for all?

And I heard in further future, pharmacy will be split into clinical pharmacy, and pharmaceutical science, as 2 separate degrees. Maybe it might improve the employability of registered pharmacists, only if they cut the cohort size instead of expanding lol.

There will always be naive people who simply regurgitate the school propaganda and yet refuse to admit that they are wrong, even when confronted with evidence.
(If i remember correctly) Pre-reg slots will not be an issue cos going forward, everyone is assured a place as MOH will be in charge of pre-reg instead of the individual institutions. BUT it is not gonna solve the lack of positions as registered pharmacists... I mean what is the point of a license if you can only display in your wallet and not use it.
Highly unlikely that they will cut the cohort size cos they need to match the high turnover rate of hospital pharmacists. lol.
 

evilsaigon

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What made you decide to pursue pharmacy? Was it a passion or just a case of "it's a straight A course so it must be a $$$ career?"

Bit of both. I had no particular interest; I thought I was interested in a healthcare and science after doing well in Biology and Chem.

Back then parents tell me pharmacy earn big bucks, the pharm staff overglorify the industry, saying it's a guaranteed bright future and say "we need more pharmacists". So yes, money's in my mind as well.

But truth is they don't have the money for more pharmacists. They need more budget in healthcare. I didn't know it was saturated already. Some more after army delay 2 years, saturation got even worse.

Our preceptor told us hospitals can fully function without pharmacists. In a recession, the first one to be axed in healthcare is the pharmacist. They cannot lose their doctor, nurse, social worker. So, we had better contribute VALUE, cannot just hide in the background anymore. So we see them proactively conducting seminars/talks/presentations.

Sorry if I'm too negative. But if you talk to any 2016 & 2017 graduate, they'd probably tell you the same thing. Many of them are still unemployed now after getting the license.
 
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