HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

Professional Conversion Programme for Registered Nurses/Nanyang Polytechnic Diploma in Nursing(PCP)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-10-2017, 11:07 PM   #16
Supremacy Member
 
havetheveryfun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,222
No offense but I don't think most of your complaints are valid except for the overloading of semesters and the extra amount of damages you have to pay if you fail the course.

-It is a course with a bond. If you fail the course, of course you have to pay the damages.. just like a scholarship bond. If not where got so good? What's more, there is training allowance even during your studies.

-Starting pay low even after completing the course. That's to be expected, since to them they "paid" for your 2 years of course + training allowance.

-Lecturers and assessors CMI - that happens everywhere. just ask any local uni undergrad, most of the professors also are just textbook based and have no industry experience. After all, most of these lecturers and assessors probably have not been nurses or doctors before, how would they know ? You only learn more when you start working as a proper nurse, just like any other industry.. that's why related working experience is valued over a higher education paper (like a masters' or PHD) sometimes.

-Overloading of semesters: yes it suck but its probably a compromise. I don't think a lot of employers would be willing to wait for a person to complete a 3 year course and then offer them.. they might as well go and look for fresh diploma grads every year to join them without having to wait 3 years. And its probably because of the training allowance that they have to cut short the duration.
havetheveryfun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2017, 01:41 AM   #17
Supremacy Member
 
Kyoji83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,571
No offense but I don't think most of your complaints are valid except for the overloading of semesters and the extra amount of damages you have to pay if you fail the course.

Just sharing my experience so that more people are aware of PCP-RN.


-It is a course with a bond. If you fail the course, of course you have to pay the damages.. just like a scholarship bond. If not where got so good? What's more, there is training allowance even during your studies.

For PCP, you are correct cause student & surety are both local however I cannot say the same thing for foreigners.

I have actually ask foreign students who are under sponsorship for 3 years normal Diploma courses & their reply is they do not know their actual amount for Liquidated Damages (LD). Their surety are foreigners who mostly are their parent in their home country like China. If they run away, by right Singapore Government (sponsors) needs to engage Lawyer at China to demand for DL payment. However I never hear any sponsors doing that.


-Starting pay low even after completing the course. That's to be expected, since to them they "paid" for your 2 years of course + training allowance.

Just sharing my experience so that more people are aware of 'untold' information about PCP-RN.


-Lecturers and assessors CMI - that happens everywhere. just ask any local uni undergrad, most of the professors also are just textbook based and have no industry experience. After all, most of these lecturers and assessors probably have not been nurses or doctors before, how would they know ? You only learn more when you start working as a proper nurse, just like any other industry.. that's why related working experience is valued over a higher education paper (like a masters' or PHD) sometimes.

NYP Lecturers are experience nurses who have at least a Honours/Bachelor or Master Degree. However I feels that they do not have what it take to be a Lecturer presenting topics or competent to trained a class of students (Ratio: 1 Lecturer to more then 20 students) for nursing lab.


-Overloading of semesters: yes it suck but its probably a compromise. I don't think a lot of employers would be willing to wait for a person to complete a 3 year course and then offer them.. they might as well go and look for fresh diploma grads every year to join them without having to wait 3 years. And its probably because of the training allowance that they have to cut short the duration.

Not really & actually the course fees is much cheaper if the course is 3 years rather then PCP 2 years.

During that academic year, Full time normal Diploma courses for Singaporean is $19,881.60, PR is $22,695.70 & International Students is $26,218.70 as Non-subsidised Student for that 1 year duration course fees. As Singaporean & PR, we can get subsidised such as tuition grant to bring the training course fees & DL amount down.

However NYP charge a high price of $34,475.40 for PCP Diploma courses for that 1 year duration without allowing student to have Subsidy like MOE Tuition Grant which increase the DL amount.

The funny part is our sponsorship contract are base on estimated course fees of $39,782.60 per year to draft contract.

Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

So why did NYP charge a high price of $34,475.40 or unacceptable purchasing procedures without anyone like Auditor General's Office (AGO) questioning? To add on, why Singaporeans & PRs are not given Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP)?
__________________
Mess with the best & Die like the rest
Kyoji83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2017, 03:26 AM   #18
Supremacy Member
 
Kyoji83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,571
Yes, PCP students are better now in term of receiving training allowances of $1,700 to $2,050 per month based on their prior work experience. However the higher the allowance, the higher the LD. Any point of time, they increase the allowance, PCP student have to take up & cause the LD to be higher.

More details on the computation of training allowance are as follows:

Years of Prior Work Experience: Enhanced Monthly Training Allowance
Below 2: $1,700
2-3: $1,770
4-5: $1,840
6-7: $1,910
8-9: $1,980
10 and above: $2,050

----------------------------------------

For NS, really s.u.c.k thumbs.


I read your story and its good that u share the downsides of the pcp course. Last time the training allowance were even worst. Like $900-1000+.

Guess somewhere u also mentioned about your reservist thingy. Yeh overall NS and reservist is not really fair to sg guys. U r supposed to protect the country but front door already open to so many foreigners. And so many abnn, prc , pinoys are citizens nowadays ...
__________________
Mess with the best & Die like the rest
Kyoji83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2017, 08:19 AM   #19
Supremacy Member
 
havetheveryfun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,222
Just sharing my experience so that more people are aware of PCP-RN.
Yes of course, you are just sharing your experience.. its up to the individual to decide whether its good or bad.

All I can say is try not to join a PCP that gives training allowance.. because with training allowance, you cannot fail and also high expectations ..

or maybe when joining the course can request for lower training allowance , that way wont have to pay back that much if fail. Or look for other programmes where there is no training allowance, this way at least maybe only have to pay for the course fees
havetheveryfun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2017, 08:54 AM   #20
Supremacy Member
 
Kyoji83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,571
Not PCP programmes have allowances and are so long duration. If you draw an allowance during the programme for just studying and not working, naturally you have to pay back the allowance if you fail right? Isn't that to be expected. Of course, the lecturers in the course may try to make you fail etc.. but what do they get out of it ?
I only see the Contract after signing Letter of Undertaking for $1K of Liquidated Damages (LD) if I decided not to take up PCP sponsorship after NYP offer me a seat.

Never expected liquidated damages will be this much since Singapore Workforce Development Agency (WDA) stated that total liquidated damages (including full course fees, training allowances and career transition bonus) at the point of training completion could amount to roughly be $125,000 which is not the true facts!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is the estimated Estimated amount of liquidated damages upon signing deed (Training allowance is $1,900 per month upon signing deed) will be this much.

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $69,005.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($69,005.86 + $39,782.60# + $22,800.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $146,947.31

However there is an increment of allowance from $1,900 to $2,050. So now the new estimated amount of liquidated damages is:

1st year = (Course Fees for 1st year + Training Allowance for 1st year + $150.00 uniform) x 110% = ($39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $150.00) x 110% = $70,985.86

2nd year = (LD of first (1st) year + Course Fees for 2nd year + Training Allowance for 2nd year (to 5th year) + One-Time Career Transition Bonus) x 110% = ($70,985.86+ $39,782.60# + $24,600.00 + $2,000.00) x 110% = $151,105.31

* Remark: Depending on sponsoring hospital, some will included medical checkup & injection fees for DL. For this computation of LD is without it.


If one really wants to join a PCP programme, go look for those that you don't have to pay or at least don't have to pay so much if you "Fail", or those that are purely WSQ courses (this type confirm don't have to pay back).. because no way to fail to WSQ type of courses one

Hard cause no all PCP have available information such as LD amount & you will never know how they calculate the liquidated damages. Even for PCP-RN, my actual amount is also different from what WSG claim.

I am interested to be RN but no easy course, how? People chose PCP because of interest to work in that occupation & not because the course is easy.


There's no free lunch in the world.. the higher the training allowance is during the course, definitely higher expectations and all.. dont go and be greedy and want to get paid a high amount for studying

NOt all PCP have available information such as allowance. People chose PCP because of interest to work in that occupation & not because the allowance is high. We do not have the option to reject the allowance too.
__________________
Mess with the best & Die like the rest
Kyoji83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2017, 09:04 AM   #21
Supremacy Member
 
Kyoji83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,571
I suppose there will be quite alot of desperate people who would sign up to any pcp which gives an allowance and a guaranteed job at the end of the studies.

Not all PCP have available information such as allowance. People chose PCP because of interest to work in that occupation & not because the allowance is high. We do not have the option to reject the allowance too. Majorly of my batch including me do not hope to get allowance if possible.


But everyone must remember that nursing is a job which requires passion in order to last. Without that passion, studying and even working as a nurse will be a few years of hell. I suppose the large LD is to persuade people to think carefully before signing up. Alternatively, the program should have a "free-look" period for participants to quit in the first 3 months at a low LD of they find they are not cut out for nursing.

I agree with you that they should have a "free-look" period for participants to quit in the first 3 months at a low LD.

However they create an unfriendly environment for PCP applicant.

Before you get to see the Contract, you are force to sign Letter of Undertaking for $1K of Liquidated Damages (LD) if you decided not to take up PCP sponsorship after NYP offer you a seat.

Who would like to pay $1K for nothing & since applicant are interest in PCP, of course they will proceed to sign the contract because they don't expect to fail since they never thought that training provider and the assessment is this kind of standard.
__________________
Mess with the best & Die like the rest
Kyoji83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-10-2017, 11:46 AM   #22
Supremacy Member
 
Kyoji83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,571
They will also consider those who have less then 2 years of working experience. Don't worry, your LD will be cheaper then PCP-RN cause unlike NYP who charge a high sky course fees without giving government funding like MOE tuition grant, SUSS charge a reasonable course fees with government funding.

My e2i executive workshop (especially for unemployed) classmates & I do not have a good experience for PCP. Only the freelance e2i trainers claim that they have benefits from it.

One thing bad about PCP is you will only get to sign your employment contract after graduating from course & you have no say for your salary package (wages, working hours, benefits & etc) because of your sponsorship bond.

Another thing is after bond, most of the PCP only lead you to have WSQ qualification or worst, no proper qualification. So when you want to change company for similar jobs in the industry, you found out that no one is going to hire you due to lack of qualification. However the good thing for you is at least for PCP for Social Workers, your qualification is a local university degree.


Hi, really interested in PCP program for Social Workers. But I currently just grad and studied biz dip. So just started working in 3months and need to clock 2 years min. experience. Is PCP overall not so good or mainly for RN?
__________________
Mess with the best & Die like the rest
Kyoji83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

HardwareZone
Rewards