A Lost Generation: The Fake Degree And Possibly Fake Working Experiience Saga!

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
Your premise is that your industry has no capacity to fit another degree holder or diploma holder. I hardly think that is true. Most industries have vacancies all over and that's why we have mobility, and that's why people can job hop or even industry hop.

try applying for a degree level job with a diploma or ITE cert. Also, I'm talking about fresh grads here. So, fresh grads do not have the luxury to jump if they weren't even given a chance at the springboard first place.

It's either take a lower level job like what CAshop did, or switch industry.

Yes...I have seen aDS like this...
Fresh Grads welcome! Requires 2 years experience.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
5,556
Reaction score
0
Ur grandpa escape poverty with LKY building a nation base on meritocracy. Best man for job not reserve job for certain segment. The latter reserve job for certain pple can be seen in Malaysia. U think their system is good? If LKY use your kind of stupid mentality we'll still be stuck in 3rd world.

Graduate 5-10 year old cert is obsolete. Just because he is graduate doesn't mean $hit. I work in IT. If I stop training or improve for 1 year my skillsets becomes obsolete within 3 years and also need to go drive Taxi.

This fake cert thing happens EVERYWHERE not just in SG, it happens all over the world. There is never going to be 100% elimination of the problem. All we need is just additional enforcement. U idiots are making a mountain out of a molehill. If the person have fake cert but can obviously do the job and company is willing to hire him, whats the problem. Its not ur loss its the company's loss they are the ones paying thousands of dollars for these pple. Fake cert also not unique to FT. Locals also use fake cert

There is no loss generation. Youth unemployment is one of the lowest in the world. Total unemployment is also one of the lowest in the world. By comparison the EU nations, US, Australia are at least twice that of SG. What do U call them? Loss century?

You are contradicting yourself. Best man for the job and meritocracy would mean a degree holder from a higher ranked Uni would trump someone from a much lower ranked Uni or worse a fake degree.

And the bedrock of meritocracy is there must be no fraud involved. And as to your 'fake very thing is everywhere', you need to know Singapore is not everywhere, it is here and we need to put a stop to it. And all first world countries have zero tolerance for it.
 
Last edited:

cancer81

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
61,057
Reaction score
0
U don't have to. But it is fact that fakes displaces someone who is more qualified for the job.

Deserving or not I don't care. I'm Talking about qualifications here.

A company that is looking for degree holder means the job is not open for those not holding a degree. And so on down the chain.

By doing nothing to these cheats.
People are losing jobs which they are qualified to do. And that's just the surface of the problem.

The larger problem is the displacement of whole generationS of workers leading to succession issues in the future. Which is why you are seeing whole industries void of Sinkies. Becuz all the qualified people have already left the industry due to such displacements.

Having the correct and valid educational certificates or training certificates does not QUALIFY you for a job. That distinction is made by employers.

Applying for S-Pass, E-Pass, PR and citizenship will involve closer looks.

whole industries?

Like IT? Let me tell you why it seems that way.

Fresh graduates thinking that their module in project management prepares them for project management in the industry.
Fresh graduates who refuse to apply for jobs needing to do coding. Better yet, there are ones who agree during the interview, show up at first day and say this is not they wanted. My company employed one NTU graduate who did this and quit in 3 days. Even said that he was doing the company a favour returning company asset (laptop) to company....

being a Singaporean does not entitle you to a job or a living. We mollycoddle our kids in school so much these days?
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
I would seriously consider not calling this whole thing a "lost generation"

Weeding out individuals whose CV contain inaccurate information has always been an uphill battle worldwide.

Unaccredited schools of learning consistently look for friendlier jurisdictions that will allow them to continue to operate. Example, Malaysia where SPU is supposedly operating.

The reason they continue to exist is that there are people looking for a shortcut or a "jolt" to their careers.

Some go for expensive training courses only to discover employers do not look for such certificates because they value actual project experiences over such training.

For job applicants with relevant job experiences, employers will skip to that section and most of the time not look at the Academic portion.

Guess when that is looked at? When you are a fresh graduate. Entry level job positions do not displace anyone. The reason why many people always see their classmates/friends/or themselves having to change line or go sell insurance is because they gave up or had never captured the skills their diploma or degree imply they have.

IT or Comp Science graduates fresh out of University declaring they want to be a project manager straight away and insisting that they are not only good enough for the job but also above the menial task of actual coding is :s22:

Funny thing is, everything you said has some truth to it. But goes contrary to all the beliefs this nation was built upon, hardwork and honesty. Training courses, Universities, everything.

while it Is trUE that some grads act like what you said. But I seriously doubt everybody around me didn't have the skills or asked for too much.

The fact is, many of my generation got displaced by FTs and were forced to switch industry. Even my class' top scorer could not find a job within a year and finally settled for an admin job at Jurong island just to feed himself.

its not a problem if these FTS were qualified. But it IS a problem when some of these FTs were cheats who were less qualified than even a fresh grad.


Now that govt has tightened the manpower regulations regarding FTs you are seeing problems surfacing. Govt Kpkb about how no experienced Sinkies to do those jobs when govts' own slack policies and enforcement were the very things that caused people to leave the industry in the first place.


This problem is going to go on Like this.

tighten labor.

companies can't find qualified people.

govt calls Sinkies to study for those qualifications.

loosen labor so companies can survive.

New batch graduates...cannot find job...switch industry.

govt reacts, tightens labor too late. And history repeats.


We've seen it in IT in the early 2000s
We've seen it in bioteCH in the early 2010s
it's repeating in IT again recently.



reactionary policies plus wanting instant results is the main culprit by those shortsighted MIWs
 

cancer81

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
61,057
Reaction score
0
You are contradicting yourself. Best man for the job would mean and meritocracy would mean a degree holder from a higher ranked Uni would trump someone from a much lower ranked Uni or worse a fake degree.

And the bedrock of meritocracy is there must be no fraud involved. And as to your 'fake very thing is everywhere', you need to know Singapore is not everywhere, it is here and we need to put a stop to it. And all first world countries have zero tolerance for it.

A higher ranked Uni cert but fails to do the technical test is not going to help you.

Which school you come from only matters a little bit since it is impressive but it also means the employer has a much much higher expectation.

Attaching value to skills, experience and academic achievements is discretionary. If we were to turn this act of padding one's CV into a crime, you criminalizing people who might have been conned by a degree mill.

Declaring higher ranked uni trumps lower ranked is slapping meritocracy on the face. That is elitism, one could attend one of the ivy league schools if their parents donated enough to the school. We might as well ask then why the whole diploma VS A level holders in fighting for university places debate is so heated? Your version will say that A levels always trump diploma and if the A levels is from Raffles, it will trump the higher score one from Serangoon JC...

:s22:
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
Having the correct and valid educational certificates or training certificates does not QUALIFY you for a job. That distinction is made by employers.

Applying for S-Pass, E-Pass, PR and citizenship will involve closer looks.

whole industries?

Like IT? Let me tell you why it seems that way.

Fresh graduates thinking that their module in project management prepares them for project management in the industry.
Fresh graduates who refuse to apply for jobs needing to do coding. Better yet, there are ones who agree during the interview, show up at first day and say this is not they wanted. My company employed one NTU graduate who did this and quit in 3 days. Even said that he was doing the company a favour returning company asset (laptop) to company....

being a Singaporean does not entitle you to a job or a living. We mollycoddle our kids in school so much these days?

god damn. Stop diverting the issue away.

Its the CHEATS we are talking about here.

Certainly, Nobody owes us a living.

AND SINGAPOREANS CERTAINLY DO NOT OWE THESE CHEATS A LIVING BY LETTING THEM OFF EASILY BY GIVING LAME EXCUSES.
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
A higher ranked Uni cert but fails to do the technical test is not going to help you.

Which school you come from only matters a little bit since it is impressive but it also means the employer has a much much higher expectation.

Attaching value to skills, experience and academic achievements is discretionary. If we were to turn this act of padding one's CV into a crime, you criminalizing people who might have been conned by a degree mill.

Declaring higher ranked uni trumps lower ranked is slapping meritocracy on the face. That is elitism, one could attend one of the ivy league schools if their parents donated enough to the school. We might as well ask then why the whole diploma VS A level holders in fighting for university places debate is so heated? Your version will say that A levels always trump diploma and if the A levels is from Raffles, it will trump the higher score one from Serangoon JC...

:s22:

And mollycoddling these cheats is meritocracy?

Stop diverting the issue away from these cheats.

CHEATS is the issue. Not proper FTs who worked for their certs.
 

cancer81

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
61,057
Reaction score
0
Funny thing is, everything you said has some truth to it. But goes contrary to all the beliefs this nation was built upon, hardwork and honesty. Training courses, Universities, everything.

while it Is trUE that some grads act like what you said. But I seriously doubt everybody around me didn't have the skills or asked for too much.

The fact is, many of my generation got displaced by FTs and were forced to switch industry. Even my class' top scorer could not find a job within a year and finally settled for an admin job at Jurong island just to feed himself.

its not a problem if these FTS were qualified. But it IS a problem when some of these FTs were cheats who were less qualified than even a fresh grad.


Now that govt has tightened the manpower regulations regarding FTs you are seeing problems surfacing. Govt Kpkb about how no experienced Sinkies to do those jobs when govts' own slack policies and enforcement were the very things that caused people to leave the industry in the first place.


This problem is going to go on Like this.

tighten labor.

companies can't find qualified people.

govt calls Sinkies to study for those qualifications.

loosen labor so companies can survive.

New batch graduates...cannot find job...switch industry.

govt reacts, tightens labor too late. And history repeats.


We've seen it in IT in the early 2000s
We've seen it in bioteCH in the early 2010s
it's repeating in IT again recently.



reactionary policies plus wanting instant results is the main culprit by those shortsighted MIWs

Again, top scoring does not mean you will have a fantastic career. Nobody and I do mean nobody I know of tells me that their interviewer look at their transcript and say "it says here you got a A* in C++!! WELCOME ABOARD! :D"

IT and Biotech requires you to climb the job ladder. Many give up because they want to move to the business side of the industry but find themselves hitting a glass ceiling or could not do so in the X number of years they gave themselves. Heaping the blame on Foreign Talent is an excuse or a lie told to oneself so many times that many have begun to truthfully believe it.
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
5,556
Reaction score
0
A higher ranked Uni cert but fails to do the technical test is not going to help you.

Which school you come from only matters a little bit since it is impressive but it also means the employer has a much much higher expectation.

Attaching value to skills, experience and academic achievements is discretionary. If we were to turn this act of padding one's CV into a crime, you criminalizing people who might have been conned by a degree mill.

Declaring higher ranked uni trumps lower ranked is slapping meritocracy on the face. That is elitism, one could attend one of the ivy league schools if their parents donated enough to the school. We might as well ask then why the whole diploma VS A level holders in fighting for university places debate is so heated? Your version will say that A levels always trump diploma and if the A levels is from Raffles, it will trump the higher score one from Serangoon JC...

:s22:

How many Serangoon JC students are there in the Parliament? And how many RJC students are there in Parliament?
By your reasoning , NUS and NTU should stop trumpeting their University rankings since it makes no difference to you whether they are ranked 500th or 25th.
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
Having the correct and valid educational certificates or training certificates does not QUALIFY you for a job. That distinction is made by employers.

Applying for S-Pass, E-Pass, PR and citizenship will involve closer looks.

whole industries?

Like IT? Let me tell you why it seems that way.

Fresh graduates thinking that their module in project management prepares them for project management in the industry.
Fresh graduates who refuse to apply for jobs needing to do coding. Better yet, there are ones who agree during the interview, show up at first day and say this is not they wanted. My company employed one NTU graduate who did this and quit in 3 days. Even said that he was doing the company a favour returning company asset (laptop) to company....

being a Singaporean does not entitle you to a job or a living. We mollycoddle our kids in school so much these days?

So, it is alright for you to base Ur assumptions on one NTU grad that all Sinkies are like that.

So can I say that all FTS are holding fake certs?



I see lots of double standards in your arguments.
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
Again, top scoring does not mean you will have a fantastic career. Nobody and I do mean nobody I know of tells me that their interviewer look at their transcript and say "it says here you got a A* in C++!! WELCOME ABOARD! :D"

IT and Biotech requires you to climb the job ladder. Many give up because they want to move to the business side of the industry but find themselves hitting a glass ceiling or could not do so in the X number of years they gave themselves. Heaping the blame on Foreign Talent is an excuse or a lie told to oneself so many times that many have begun to truthfully believe it.

Yep keep ignoring the FT CHEATs I'm talking about and focus on Sinkies deficiencies.


Very nice way of argument.


Caps incase you can't see it.
 

CAShop

Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
8,412
Reaction score
0
How about the guy whom you displaced when you decided to take a lower level job? Ever thought about it?

also, 嘴巴讲蓝趴爽。people know what I'm saying. Not everybody is in the same situation as u. for every person that is in a better position than u. There will be more that's in a worse position than u Because of u.

This is so stupid it's incredible. The person I "displaced" moved on to a better job that's why companies hire new staff. That's what happens in most companies, someone leaves they hire new one. Or Company expand they hire new staff. Ever thought of that. Also U ever thought of the fact that SG only has 2% unemployment rate meaning no one is actually having real issues getting jobs so what loss generation?

Yes not everybody is the same as me but everyone can improve his situation

U cannot get a job, instead of blaming employers look in the mirror. Does your qualification suck? Does your resume suck, does your interview skills suck or simply you are asking for too much?

If U are stuck in a $hitty job, go out there and get a better one, that's what I did.

I was in a $hitty job with $hitty pay. I had lousy qualification so I took part time diploma. Got my diploma get a better job. Go for professional certification, get better job. Get a part time degree got my degree get better job. With Degree and plenty of related job experience. I looked for better job. I earn >$5K but it took me a long time to get here. Most graduate probably get there in a few years. I started out with O-level cert. I sucked, my life sucked so I did something to improve it.

You and your loser friends instead of doing something to improve your own life just bitch and moan about FT and govt. Hard Truth, it doesn't matter if PAP, WP, SDP or whatever other P U can vote in is in charge. If Ur attitude is like that your life will continue to suck. No one else can help U
 

blurblur123

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
55,181
Reaction score
1,335
Funny thing is, everything you said has some truth to it. But goes contrary to all the beliefs this nation was built upon, hardwork and honesty. Training courses, Universities, everything.

while it Is trUE that some grads act like what you said. But I seriously doubt everybody around me didn't have the skills or asked for too much.

The fact is, many of my generation got displaced by FTs and were forced to switch industry. Even my class' top scorer could not find a job within a year and finally settled for an admin job at Jurong island just to feed himself.

its not a problem if these FTS were qualified. But it IS a problem when some of these FTs were cheats who were less qualified than even a fresh grad.


Now that govt has tightened the manpower regulations regarding FTs you are seeing problems surfacing. Govt Kpkb about how no experienced Sinkies to do those jobs when govts' own slack policies and enforcement were the very things that caused people to leave the industry in the first place.


This problem is going to go on Like this.

tighten labor.

companies can't find qualified people.

govt calls Sinkies to study for those qualifications.

loosen labor so companies can survive.

New batch graduates...cannot find job...switch industry.

govt reacts, tightens labor too late. And history repeats.


We've seen it in IT in the early 2000s
We've seen it in bioteCH in the early 2010s
it's repeating in IT again recently.



reactionary policies plus wanting instant results is the main culprit by those shortsighted MIWs

Life science grad... Jobless for nearly a year... :( now take up temp job... Sent resume to mod for job also tio rejected... Said tt cannot see how my resume can help the company... Fresh grad no exp how to help??? Sad
 

blurblur123

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
55,181
Reaction score
1,335
Yep keep ignoring the FT CHEATs I'm talking about and focus on Sinkies deficiencies.


Very nice way of argument.


Caps incase you can't see it.

Now ppl keep justifying that it is okay to use fake degrees? Wow what new way to pawn our nation... So much of uniting the country... Singaporeans will be the new minority...
 

CAShop

Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
8,412
Reaction score
0
You are contradicting yourself. Best man for the job and meritocracy would mean a degree holder from a higher ranked Uni would trump someone from a much lower ranked Uni or worse a fake degree.

And the bedrock of meritocracy is there must be no fraud involved. And as to your 'fake very thing is everywhere', you need to know Singapore is not everywhere, it is here and we need to put a stop to it. And all first world countries have zero tolerance for it.

If U have 2 candidates, both with similar results and both impress U similarly at the interview, would U hire the one from Harvard or would U hire the one from some 3rd rate university U never even heard of? All things equal, most times U will choose the former because U know the grading standards of the former will have a certain level of quality. Yes it is a bit elitist but that's how the world works. More importantly it only gets U through the door, there is a reason why most companies have a 3-6 months probation period. To observe if U can really do your job, if you are doing it well, no companies cares about that cert after that

True no Fraud involved. I already pointed out fraud is not unique to SG, I have no problems with all this exposing of fakes, I have a serious issue with racist stereotype as if only foreigners do it. FYI locals do it too. Most famous one Google Shi Ming Yi and his famous Phd from University of Mannin
 
Last edited:

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
This is so stupid it's incredible. The person I "displaced" moved on to a better job that's why companies hire new staff. That's what happens in most companies, someone leaves they hire new one. Or Company expand they hire new staff. Ever thought of that. Also U ever thought of the fact that SG only has 2% unemployment rate meaning no one is actually having real issues getting jobs so what loss generation?

Yes not everybody is the same as me but everyone can improve his situation

U cannot get a job, instead of blaming employers look in the mirror. Does your qualification suck? Does your resume suck, does your interview skills suck or simply you are asking for too much?

If U are stuck in a $hitty job, go out there and get a better one, that's what I did.

I was in a $hitty job with $hitty pay. I had lousy qualification so I took part time diploma. Got my diploma get a better job. Go for professional certification, get better job. Get a part time degree got my degree get better job. With Degree and plenty of related job experience. I looked for better job. I earn >$5K but it took me a long time to get here. Most graduate probably get there in a few years. I started out with O-level cert. I sucked, my life sucked so I did something to improve it.

You and your loser friends instead of doing something to improve your own life just bitch and moan about FT and govt. Hard Truth, it doesn't matter if PAP, WP, SDP or whatever other P U can vote in is in charge. If Ur attitude is like that your life will continue to suck. No one else can help U

Everything here is I I I I I

Cognitive dissonance is strong here.

a Network engineer, a CEO, a manager and a toilet cleaner all count as 1 job towards the unemployment statistic. Just sayin.


And no, my path is actually very similar to yours except that you have more years under your belt than me.

But I choose to see the bigger picture as to why I was forced into a much more difficult path because of the CHEATS(not FTS in general but the cheats). I'm asking the big question which you are too uncomfortable to ask.

jUST think, you could be raking in 8 or 9k with the amount of effort you have put in. Instead of the 5k you are earning now, if not for those CHEATS.
 

blurblur123

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
55,181
Reaction score
1,335
This is so stupid it's incredible. The person I "displaced" moved on to a better job that's why companies hire new staff. That's what happens in most companies, someone leaves they hire new one. Or Company expand they hire new staff. Ever thought of that. Also U ever thought of the fact that SG only has 2% unemployment rate meaning no one is actually having real issues getting jobs so what loss generation?

Yes not everybody is the same as me but everyone can improve his situation

U cannot get a job, instead of blaming employers look in the mirror. Does your qualification suck? Does your resume suck, does your interview skills suck or simply you are asking for too much?

If U are stuck in a $hitty job, go out there and get a better one, that's what I did.

I was in a $hitty job with $hitty pay. I had lousy qualification so I took part time diploma. Got my diploma get a better job. Go for professional certification, get better job. Get a part time degree got my degree get better job. With Degree and plenty of related job experience. I looked for better job. I earn >$5K but it took me a long time to get here. Most graduate probably get there in a few years. I started out with O-level cert. I sucked, my life sucked so I did something to improve it.

You and your loser friends instead of doing something to improve your own life just bitch and moan about FT and govt. Hard Truth, it doesn't matter if PAP, WP, SDP or whatever other P U can vote in is in charge. If Ur attitude is like that your life will continue to suck. No one else can help U

Woof woof... Is it true tt u got a dollar for posting pro-***? Can i join? Where to sign up? I am jobless now
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
Everyone is ignoring the fact that I'm talking about the FT CHEATS here....funny right
 

bakuten

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
12,436
Reaction score
802
If U have 2 candidates, both with similar results and both impress U similarly at the interview, would U hire the one from Harvard or would U hire the one from some 3rd rate university U never even heard of? All things equal, most times U will choose the former because U know the grading standards of the former will have a certain level of quality. Yes it is a bit elitist but that's how the world works. More importantly it only gets U through the door, there is a reason why most companies have a 3-6 months probation period. To observe if U can really do your job, if you are doing it well, no companies cares about that cert after that

True no Fraud involved. I already pointed out fraud is not unique to SG, I have no problems with all this exposing of fakes, I have a serious issue with racist stereotype as if only foreigners do it. FYI locals do it too. Most famous one Google Shi Ming Yi and his famous Phd from University of Mannin

Crime also not unique to SG. Doesn't mean we should not clamp down on it. Especially when the livelihoods of people and the nation are at stake here
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top