Upcoming R2R DAC: Schitt Yggdrasil

derazor

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If you are referring to purrin's take, then all other dacs are below M7 including chord hugo, auralic vega, yulong da8.

Err... it's still tia gong status.

We're really blessed as we can test them with our own ears :) when it arrives.

This P guy can trust ah?
 

Murcielago

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Err... it's still tia gong status.

We're really blessed as we can test them with our own ears :) when it arrives.

This P guy can trust ah?
That P guy say until like got tiger got dragon
PREFACE

Question: I would be curious to hear how it stacks up to the MSB DAC's. Since the MSB stuff is so far out of the price range of most people and even most audiophiles... Appreciate the write-up on this! Interesting to see the history behind this and its relationship to the Theta DAC.

Another's Answer (from someone who heard v0.96): Stomps the Analog DAC on technicalities. Some might prefer the Analog if they want that thicker tone/timbre which is honestly verging on a romantic coloration to me but tastefully done. I'd say competitive with the Platinum DAC though none of MSB's stuff has ever really impressed me for ultimate resolution. In fact, using the same demo tracks they use I've found that it might be a bit more forgiving than my own headphone rig. Whether that's from the DAC or other aspects of various chains found at various shows, I just feel after 3-4 years of hearing their stuff in various situations I always come away with the same feeling.

I'd say MSB's tuning is more geared toward natural ease of listening without being offensive as too dry and analytical or warm and relaxed. I prefer gear more focused on honesty and transparency to the recording not that their stuff doesn't do that well, it's just not a number one priority based on my listening experiences so far.

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FAQ for v0.99

The MSB DACs are mere toys.

There comes a point where words like warm, natural, digital, analog, raspy, romantic, timbre, tone, resolution, dynamics, micro-dynamics, liquid, analytical, organic, involving, soulful, flat, boring, lively, low level information, etc. make absolutely zero, nada, no ******* difference. Yep, no ******* difference. The audiophile's pursuit, at least from my point of view and I know Anax is of the same opinion, is to recreate the musical performance to be as true as possible to the real thing - to fake us out into thinking it IS the REAL thing.

The Yggy does that. It is the most REAL source I have ever heard. We are talking about v0.99 (essentially what the production model will be) which I was finally able to preview. The iteration Ravi heard was v0.96. This final version is a huge, HUGE step up - especially in terms of the intangibles.

Q: I'm worried about the Yggdrasil being too analytical because you guys said it was so resolving down to the the original source tapes. I'm afraid of resolution.
A: **** you. Do you think of resolution or analytical when you listen to the REAL thing?

Q: How's the tone? I like a warm sound and I don't like nasty treble.
A: **** you. Does the word REAL mean anything to you? REAL means the complete gamut of every kind of sound.

Q: I have sucky recordings. Will the Yggdrasil make things sounds worse?
A: Absolutely not. The Yggy will scrape whatever is left of the soul of the recording and rendering it in the most REAL way possible. In fact, bad recordings sound great, because you get a new take on them.

Q: How does it compare to X or Y DAC?
A: Do X or Y DAC fake you out into thinking the recording is REAL?

Q: What do you mean by it's real?
A: I'm listening to Taylor Swift's second record right now from the Yggdrasil. Ho Lee Fuk. Ho Lee Fuk. I keep saying to myself. I cannot believe it. I am at a concert. This is real. She and her band are in my living room. Yeah, Ho Lee Fuk... Ho Lee Fuk. I am going to explode.

Q: I don't believe you.
A: I don't give a ****. Go waste your money on an MSB DAC if you prefer American or Total DAC if you prefer European.

Q: How does this compare to the Audio-GD Model X or Y?
A: **** you. Are you a retard?

Q: Does the Yggdrasil sound like a ladder DAC, or delta-sigma DAC, or a combination of the best qualities of both?
A: **** you. Does REAL life sound like a ladder DAC or delta-sigma. Give me a ******* break.

Q: I want a relaxo sound with imposed fluidity and warmth, like the Metrum or TDA15xx based NOS DACs.
A: Then go get a ******* Metrum or POS TDA15xx based DAC.

Q: Does the Yggy sound natural?
A: **** you. Do you ask yourself if REAL life sounds are "natural"?

Q: Can I copy and paste this post into a HF thread?
A: Yeah, sure.

Q: I'm afraid of the bite of trumpets, the blare of horns, crunch of guitars, smack of snares, crash of cymbals...
A: Get another DAC. Might want to consider an expensive PCM1704 based one. Wadia or wait... Resolution Audio come to mind.

Q: How long does it need to be warmed up? I heard about the long warm up times.
A: Just leave it on. All the time. Sucking juice. I've done that with every DAC I have owned. True audiophiles need to make sacrifices. But to answer your question: 3 days minimum, 1 week for optimal performance.

Q: I find this warm-up phenomenon rather incredulous or either Schiit engineers must be incompetent.
A: Go buy an ODAC.

Q: I prefer NOS because the marketing spiel from the NOS DAC manufacturer says that NOS does not muck up the signal. Is the Yggy an NOS DAC?
A: Are you a ******* retard? Do you know what a brick-wall filter does to the original signal at 44.1kHz NOS?

Q: How good is the Yggdrasil's USB Gen 3 implementation?
A: Finally, a good question. I found the built-in USB Gen 3 to be cleaner and blacker sounding than the AES and SPDIF outputs from the Off Ramp 5. My OR5 does not have the turboclock or OTL upgrades.

Q: Does Wyrd improve the sound?
A: **** off. Do you think people who drive Bugatti Veyrons or Lexus LFAs bother with aftermarket intakes for their cars?
 

pyu

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Eh. I like purrin and how he writes but I would advise to take his opinion (and those on changstar/headfi) with a healthy dose of skepticism and try to audition the gear yourself. His target audience is towards people who are poisoned very deeply and at that size, it should be more for a real hi-fi setup than say your desk.

Most people I know cannot gauge the difference between normal audio codec on your onboard motherboard and say a dedicated DAC-Amp + speaker setup. TBH, I cannot tell the difference between a well-encoded 320k mp3 file and its lossless source and the only thing I can discern between a CEntrance DACport and the ifi micro iDSD is the latter is more warm (bass is more pronounced).

From what I have read on the Yggdrasil, its not really R2R. It is using military-grade DACs and custom DSP implementation to do conversion.
 
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dqwong

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Interestingly enough, how many of you guys here have heard R2R dacs before?
 

xuan87

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I think p eat schitt. Have not listen to totaldac and say no good.
Basically I'm glad I live in sg. Listen with your ears before you buy, at the end maybe an odac is good enough.

Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why I hate chocolate ice cream) - Page 189

It's going to take forever for the Yggdrasil demo to reach singapore....

My cheap a$$ is probably going to be happy with a Modi Uber though. I don't have the headphones nor amp to fully utilize the Yggdrasil. Like buying F1 tires for a Kia car
 

dqwong

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It's going to take forever for the Yggdrasil demo to reach singapore....

My cheap a$$ is probably going to be happy with a Modi Uber though. I don't have the headphones nor amp to fully utilize the Yggdrasil. Like buying F1 tires for a Kia car

You probably need HD800 class of headphones to resolve the Yggdrasil. Not to mention a TOTL headphone amp.
 

derazor

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It's going to take forever for the Yggdrasil demo to reach singapore....

My cheap a$$ is probably going to be happy with a Modi Uber though. I don't have the headphones nor amp to fully utilize the Yggdrasil. Like buying F1 tires for a Kia car

Must slowly upgrade ma. Dac , amp , headphones etc .
Unless your current gear is permanent which I think it would not be
 

dqwong

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Must slowly upgrade ma. Dac , amp , headphones etc .
Unless your current gear is permanent which I think it would not be

interestingly enough, I find my Yamaha HS8 studio monitors(speakers) to be even more resolving(in terms of resolution) than my balanced HD800(which cost much more than HS8).

So it seems that you don't need the most expensive gears to get really good sound.
 

derazor

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That dac chip is crazy expensive. Makes the Yggdrasil looks reasonably priced in comparison (which I never says for most amps or DACs lol)

Pcm 1704 also not cheap. Multiply x4 and 8x for balanced lol
 

dqwong

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Military R2R is now not R2R???? WAT????

DAC ARCHITECTURE
The architecture of the AD5791 consists of two matched DAC
sections. A simplified circuit diagram is shown in Figure 49.
The six MSBs of the 20-bit data-word are decoded to drive 63
switches, E0 to E62. Each of these switches connects one of 63
matched resistors to either the VREFP or VREFN voltage. The
remaining 14 bits of the data-word drive the S0 to S13 switched
of a 14-bit voltage mode R-2R ladder network. To ensure
performance to specification, the reference inputs must be force
sensed with external amplifiers.


LL


Looks like it's not really competely R2R and it's only 14bits R2R?
 

dqwong

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First time heard of this chio model. Ad1955 heard before.


AD1955 is another sigma delta dac, but quite a well regarded model(for classical music).

A very transparent sounding DAC imho.
 

xuan87

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I thought Jason mentioned in one of this blog post that the dac chips used in the Yggdrasil is meant for the medical field.
 

derazor

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Ppl went to socal canjam quite a number of them said the ygg didn't really impress. Some even say it's very bright.
 

dqwong

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Ppl went to socal canjam quite a number of them said the ygg didn't really impress. Some even say it's very bright.


1)Warm up time issue(Ygg is said to require 60hours or so?) and also lack of burn-in?(R2R dacs tend to require much much more burn in hours, in the region of hundreds of hours)
2)Bad listening Env. for auditioning, they have to turn up the volume really loud.(our ears tend to naturally tune into high frequency sounds at higher volumes.)
3)Not enough sampling time and material(everything should be rushed, given the amount of people wanting to listen)
4)Equipment pairing issues? (We don't know what kind of setup there)

Best to wait for the product to be sold first then we can get more concise and confirmed reviews from users and reviewers.
 
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