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Karaoke Setup with PA Speakers

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Old 14-09-2017, 07:06 PM   #1
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Karaoke Setup with PA Speakers

Planning to setup an independent karaoke system ( only sharing the projector) from my HT setup. Budget around $5K.

I searched the history and the suggestions of using PA Speakers appeared a few times.

Will appreciate if bros can provide more detail

Hardware :
I would need Mixer/Processor, Amplifier if passive speakers, Speakers and mics.
HQ1. Other than Hung Brothers and City Music, any other recommendations?
HQ2. Any brand recommendation?

Source :
I need a karaoke player (correct naming?) that has HDD, subscription for new song download and can select song via IOS or Andrioid phone/tablet. Does not like remote or a big touch screen. So far I can only find Thunderstone KTV's K Bubbles Plus has these features.
Is there any other karaoke player that I can consider?

thanks
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Old 16-09-2017, 05:55 PM   #2
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Bro I am also looking at one . Can any bro help us?
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Old 21-09-2017, 09:54 AM   #3
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Behringer Air XR12
EV ZLX 12 P
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Old 22-09-2017, 02:36 AM   #4
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Due to space constraints, I can only have cabinet width up to 13" if install vertically or width up to 17" if placed horizontally.

Went down to City Music. A wide range of Electro Voice PA speakers. The 8" and 10" models fit my space need.

I also consider QSC K8.2. Good reviews on a few sites. Not sure where I can view this in Singapore.
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Old 22-09-2017, 02:43 AM   #5
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Careful with installing horizontally - most PA speaks have horned tweeters for good horizontal dispersion but poor vertical dispersion, but that's for when they're standing upright.
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Old 22-09-2017, 08:59 AM   #6
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QSC can try valentines music.
Check out Bose and RCF.
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Old 22-09-2017, 11:15 AM   #7
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Behringer, electrovoice, jbl pro, wharfedale pro, yamaha, qsc, rcf, GRF(few years ago 7th month getai quite trending), turbosound, iva(msia), dbtech, fbt, das audio, b-52, l-acoustics, peavey, mackie, funktion-one, TOA, HiVi, and more i cant rmb.

Other than the brand, rmb to look at the series as well.

Passive is relatively lighter. Some are plastic casing while some are wood. I will go for passive because i prefer placing the amplifier in a well ventilated area, and if the amplfier spoil, i can get a replacement amp and retain the speakers. I have overheated the amplifiers in my active speakers a few times, mostly the transformer died of heat.

Currently im using a mix of passive wooden n active plastic speakers and subwoofers: wharfedale pro, jbl, kempton(sub brand by fbt), haven't spoil yet so never upgrade. They sound alright both at home, outdoor, and in larger indoor venues like Singapore Expo halls.

8" and 12" PA is more than enough for a normal hdb living room.

Yes i do find the qsc k series nice sounding n easy to work with. Why not consider getting the k12 and add in a k series subwoofer called the ksub.

Their ksub seems quite compact. Maybe u can put two ksub tgt for the lows. Good enough to make ur living room to be part time night club already.

K12 should be still hovering at $1k+ per piece? I saw someone selling second hand k12s, not sure if still available.

Also for the mixers, some professional mixer contains lots of effects but may not have that traditional karaoke "echo" type of effects. Maybe u need to take a look around. Also, some mixers may not have the key control that lets u tune pitch of the music in karaoke.

Sometimes too many speakers in a small room isnt always good as it increases the chance of feedback. Maybe u can look into an equaliser, and see if the shop can help u set up in ur house n mitigate the feedback using the eq.

It will be much better if u do not have neighbours to disturb. Sometimes very tempted to test exactly how loud these pa system can get, then neighbours come n knock on ur door. Because of the horn tweeter design, if ur speaker is angled slighlty facing out of the window, ur neighbors next block should have no problem hearing clearly.
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:48 PM   #8
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https://www.soundcraft.com/en-US/products/ui12

http://m.music-group.com/Categories/...s/XR12/p/P0BI6

EQ, noise gate, compressor, effects..... everything you need is in there.
Feedback can be control.
Try to tune the reverb and effect to your liking for singing.

Key control comes with the KOD system.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:10 PM   #9
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Thank all bros that responded.

My living room is about 7m x 5m. Volume and long throw are not my main criteria. I am looking more for musical quality and warm.

After some researching, a reasonable pair of PA speakers will be between SGD2,000 to SGD4,000. I will set my budget around there.

Weight is not an issue as not moving them around. Will wood cabinet sound better than the plastic cabinet?

Can I use my hi-fi amp like Emotiva, Rotel or Cayin (Tube) to drive PA Passive speakers?

Can I use existing HT subwoofer for both HT and Karaoke?

For mixers, I am researching mixer with built-in feedback eliminator. Echo and key control less important than feedback eliminator. Of course have all 3 better. Alternatively, I will consider a standalone feedback eliminator.

Thank for the info that the shop might be able to help to set up the EQ.

I have 2 neighbors that share a wall and a floor with my living room. So loud output is not possible. Nevertheless, I do not sing loud. Actually mainly my wife singing Chinese songs.
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Old 22-09-2017, 07:23 PM   #10
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If the mixer cannot solve your feedback problem,
Just get a dbx go rack.
https://dbxpro.com/en/products/gorack
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Old 23-09-2017, 11:08 PM   #11
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Thank all bros that responded.

My living room is about 7m x 5m. Volume and long throw are not my main criteria. I am looking more for musical quality and warm.

After some researching, a reasonable pair of PA speakers will be between SGD2,000 to SGD4,000. I will set my budget around there.

Weight is not an issue as not moving them around. Will wood cabinet sound better than the plastic cabinet?

Can I use my hi-fi amp like Emotiva, Rotel or Cayin (Tube) to drive PA Passive speakers?

Can I use existing HT subwoofer for both HT and Karaoke?

For mixers, I am researching mixer with built-in feedback eliminator. Echo and key control less important than feedback eliminator. Of course have all 3 better. Alternatively, I will consider a standalone feedback eliminator.

Thank for the info that the shop might be able to help to set up the EQ.

I have 2 neighbors that share a wall and a floor with my living room. So loud output is not possible. Nevertheless, I do not sing loud. Actually mainly my wife singing Chinese songs.
$2k -$4k/pair should get you a very decent pair of PA speakers.
But don't spend too big portion of the $5k budget on just speakers, most important is still the karaoke on demand player, without that there'll be no karaoke.

A small sized mixer cost only a few hundred dollars, a decent power amplifier may cost about $1k, a pair of PA speakers may cost $1-2k, wireless microphone may cost a few hundred dollars for normal ones, cheap ones also usable.

I still think it is important to go down to the shop and let them allow u to test out the speakers before buying, best if they have a microphone for you to test.

Very hard to say "warm" or "music quality" over the internet. Because how warm or bright really depends on the type of drivers used in the speaker, and how the speaker itself respond.

I have a speaker with High freq horns that favours frequencies from 1kHz and above, making it sound bright, so i used the equaliser to tune it to make it "warmer" and less harsh.

Also take note that some of the High Freq horns of PA speakers are very harsh sounding, it will be tiring to the ears after listening for long hours.
These may be good for clubs to reproduce the high harmonics for techno/dance music, but may not be suited for other applications. Best to listen personally.

-----

In my opinion, i felt that generally wooden loudspeakers sound better than plastic ones. But plastic loudspeakers still sound decent, not bad sounding.

The following is a very short video recording of how my plastic PA speaker sound at an exhibition. It is a typical plastic loud speaker with a 12" LF driver.

In the video, i am running a pair of 12" 2 way PA Speaker which are pole mounted on a pair of 18inch subwoofer.



It was recorded through a handphone, so it is not an accurate representation of how it really sound, it's just to give a rough idea.

Not sure if you can see the speakers, they are black and placed against the big black wooden board. The width of the board is about 10+ meters. A pair of 12" speaker w subs is good enough to fill this small indoor area with light music.

As the PA speaker is very sensitive, i do not need much power to produce the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) required.
----

Yes, technically you can drive PA speakers with audiophile amplifiers that you have, I remember amplifiers like emotiva, rotels, mcintosh have quite a bit of power with low Total Harmonic Distortions.

However, some may find that it is a 'waste' to drive PA speakers using audiophile amplifiers as high end audiophile amplifiers are built for high fidelity. In contrast, a cheap PA may not have as high fidelity as an audiophile speaker, then again, it is really up to the purpose and application, there's no harm trying n experimenting if done correctly, it is very fun.

Moreover, as PA speakers are more sensitive than some audiophile speakers, PAs will be easier to drive.

PAs have sensitivity of about 96dB/w/m and up, while some audiophile speakers have sensitivity at about 80+db/w/m (if i rmb correctly). In very simple terms, without considering too much factors, take it as with 1 watts, PA speaker with 96db/w/m can produce approx 96db at 1 meter (usually at a single frequency of 1khz). Thus people say PA speakers (or highly sensitive speakers) are "easier" to drive.

But these numbers are not always so accurate, especially when more frequencies are being input into the speaker.

Also, as most passive PA speakers use "speakon" connectors(some call it "professional twist and lock"), you may need to terminate one end of your cables to fit this "speakon" connector if your current speakers do not already use speakon.

In simple terms, it is just a connector type with electrical contact points being housed into a plastic casing.

Note: some of these speakon connectors/receptacles have 4 terminals to run 2 sets of wire in 1 connector (Note its technical name). 2 sets of wires will have 4 wires, or 4 poles

This is good when biamping a single PA speaker, some PA speakers can be tri-amped as well.

One thing to note if u intend to drive PA speaker with audiophile amps (applies to any amplifier as well) will be the impedance of the driven speaker.

Like many speakers, PA speakers can have impedance of 8ohms or 4ohms. If you want to use your audiophile amps to drive the PA speaker, best to check the specifications of the amplifier and see the output power vs impedance. Try not to spoil the amplifier as i believe the ones you can easily cost much more than the PA speakers.

Another thing to note will be the Headroom of your audiophile amplifiers. Karaoke is a "live system", the source of sound comes from the microphone. If one day your friends come over and scream loudly into the microphone while singing, the amplifier will try to amplify the loud screaming (think high signal level), and the resultant instantaneous power demand may be quite a lot.

If the amplifier doesn't have enough headroom to handle this transient peak in signal, it can result in a clipped signal (some call it "not clean" signal) being sent to the speaker, which will cause damage when done continuously.
(Not being able to keep up w the transient will also result in something called slew rate distortion)

Examples of continuous clipping will be: using an amplifier that does not have enough power and trying to turn up the volume till it sounds distorted. Or trying to sing karaoke with an amplifier that does not have enough power for the speaker to produce the desired loudness, but still turning up the volume till it distorts.

The following picture shows the "nameplate" of a typical PA speaker. A power rating of 300W continuous is quite normal for a not so high powered PA speaker. Note the speakon connectors, sensitivity, impedance.



Usually for a 300Watts continuous (or some say 300 Watts RMS), it is recommended to use an amplifier with 1.5x the continuous rating of the loudspeaker. i.e 300W x 1.5 = 450Watts. This will give it some slight headroom to handle the peak signal

For more demanding applications, people tend to use amplifiers with higher power rating for more headroom.

Of cos, another method to control this peak in microphone signal is to use a compressor like what nastromo mentioned.
There are standalone compressors that can be inserted(electrically, not physically) between the channels of the mixer, and also basic ones that are built into the mixer. By compressing, the peak signal, low level signal and transient will be lowered, resulting in a signal which is "smoother" n more uniform in terms of magnitude. Some describe it as "making the soft part loud and loud part soft."

Then again for home use, we may not need amplifiers which are too powerful.
The process of choosing and pairing an amplifier with a speaker may be a bit confusing to some, thus they will prefer to buy active speakers, as the amplifier has already been properly matched(hopefully) and built into the speaker by the manufacturer.

----

Yes, technically, HT subwoofers can be used with your PA system, but here is the part that gets a bit tricky.

For HT, the AVR have the "LFE/sub woofer" out. The AVR have crossover built-in to help to send the high frequency to the speakers and send the low to the subwoofer.

But for a traditional PA systems, there is no crossover built into the mixer, which means this job is not done automatically.

The output of the mixer is a full range "XLR Left and XLR Right". In a normal system, these output signal from the mixer will be sent to a crossover, and finally to the power amplifier.

Thus, you will require a crossover to properly integrate the HT subwoofer with the PA speakers.

Else if there is no intention to use a crossover, you can still run the HT sub, but rmb to set the low pass/high cut to the lowest freq respond of the PA speaker, or any other points which u prefer.

Some Active subwoofers with crossover built in will accept the full range signal and help to output the high frequency signal to the speakers.

From here it can be seen that a PA system is quite "modular" (external compressor, external crossover, external feedback destroyer, etc), there are many physical modules for specific applications that can be added in or taken out.

Due to the different types of crossovers, equalisers, amplifiers, compressors, other external modules, PA systems may be more troublesome(in some way ) to set up compared to a HT system; but the advantage is that these external modules in a PA system may offer more parameters to fine tune.

(Fortunately, some companies like dbx design products that take over the job of all these "external modules", some of such products will be the dbx go rack that nastromo mentioned. Im using the dbx driverack 260 myself.)

Also, as PA speakers can get very loud very easily, sometimes the PA speaker may "over power" the HT subwoofers. I usually run 2 x 18" subwoofers with a single 15" PA Speaker, else it is hard for the sub to "keep up" at high SPLs.

Then again, im aware that some HT subs can get very loud and dig very low, eg. the SVS PB13 Ultra, but i didn't get a chance to try out high power HT Subs with PA speakers. Maybe you should experiment with it. It is fun to try.

Also note that mainstream not so expensive PA subwoofers wont be able to produce 20hz at 110db like what ht subs can do. Though there are big sized horn loaded PA subs designed just to reinforce the lows, usually used in clubs/cinema.

---

Some mixers do come with "Feedback Detection", but not sure which one comes with eliminators.

The "Feedback eliminator" that you are talking about and what nastromo mentioned is the "automated" process of "eliminating feedback using an equaliser".
These feedback eliminators will automatically detect which frequencies are causing the feedback and automatically attenuate them.

Some of my friends felt that if you are already using an equaliser to attenuate the "feedbacking" freq(in other words "ring out" the room), there isn't really a need to use this automated feedback eliminating devices anymore (or vice versa).
But in my opinion, as long as both devices are not set to contradict each other's setting, using them together is possible as some of these "anti feedback" system have a "live mode".

"Live mode" means it continuously detect if there's a feedback, and if there is a feedback, it attenuate that freq automatically (for a short few seconds), while you are using the system.

The reason why this "live mode" exist to continuously detect feedback is because sometimes singers will hold the mic n walk around the performance location(eg stage), and this could induce feedback.

Im using a device similar to what nastromo recommended, he recommended the dbx gorack, im using the dbx Driverack 260

Here is what the "active feedback screen" looks like:



Note: the "F" stands for fixed filters, while the "L" stands for live filters.

I hope it is not too confusing, i feel it is important to know these minor differences between audiophile/HT system and a Professional audio system, hopefully these will help u consider more when buying a PA system.

There are more details for karaoke stuffs to look at such as setting the gain of the mic and overall gain structure of the PA system to gain the signals at each stage to an acceptable level for the device at the subsequent stage, something similar to pre-amping the signals in an audiophile system

PA speakers are built to be loud as they need to reinforce the sound in a noisy environment(shopping center, outdoor, concert hall, cinema), so their purpose is slightly different from audiophile/HT systems.

Cinema also use PA speakers, such as: https://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/...i-amp/sc-322c/

The KOD system i will ask my friend to post here, or i will post after i get the info from him, that one im not familiar, i do more on the PA system side.

Last edited by mypillowtalks; 24-09-2017 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 25-09-2017, 11:56 AM   #12
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Wow.. thanks for the great and detail information. Greatly appreciated.

Noted on spreading out the budget. Thanks for the tips. Should be able to increase the budget if required as the set is to be used by the CFO and her sisters.

-------------------

Speakers

Because of size restrictions, I have shortlisted the below speakers :
1. QSC K8.2
2. EV ZXA1
3. JBL AC18 (Wood)
4. Peavy RBN-110

Hopefully, I can get to audit all of them in SG.

------------------------

HT Amp vs PA Amp.

Thanks for the great info again. I think I will not use HT Amp. Will sell away the extra HT Amp or use it for bedroom music. Will look for PA Amp or PA Active speakers.

---------------------------


KOD Players

Karaoke players vary a lot. The main requirement is able to manage song queue via a tablet. So far in SG, I can only find Thunderstone has this feature. Found a few on Taobao but prefer to buy an electronic device with local warranty.

-----------------------------

Wireless mic. Most likely Sennheiser.

-------------------------

Mixer.

I will settle on dbx Driverack 260. Since it has feedback eliminator and can do the crossover to subwoofer.

The dbx Driverack 260 has 3 XLR input. So 2 for mic and the other for the Karaoke player?

--------------------------------

Subwoofer

I have 2 Rymthik E15HP. I do not have space for another subwoofer. So my options are

1. Use the 2 Rymthiks for both HT and PA. Just need an XLR or RCA converter as I did not order my Rymthiks with XLR options previously.
2. Replace one Rymthik with a PA Subwoofer.

Will prefer option 1. And now seems a possibility. I will not be turning on the AVR while doing Karaoke. So I think it is safe to share the subwoofer.

I will cross over at 60Hz. 80hz if I can find smaller PA speakers.


----------------------------
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Old 25-09-2017, 11:38 PM   #13
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Wow.. thanks for the great and detail information. Greatly appreciated.

Noted on spreading out the budget. Thanks for the tips. Should be able to increase the budget if required as the set is to be used by the CFO and her sisters.

-------------------

Speakers

Because of size restrictions, I have shortlisted the below speakers :
1. QSC K8.2
2. EV ZXA1
3. JBL AC18 (Wood)
4. Peavy RBN-110

Hopefully, I can get to audit all of them in SG.

------------------------

HT Amp vs PA Amp.

Thanks for the great info again. I think I will not use HT Amp. Will sell away the extra HT Amp or use it for bedroom music. Will look for PA Amp or PA Active speakers.

---------------------------


KOD Players

Karaoke players vary a lot. The main requirement is able to manage song queue via a tablet. So far in SG, I can only find Thunderstone has this feature. Found a few on Taobao but prefer to buy an electronic device with local warranty.

-----------------------------

Wireless mic. Most likely Sennheiser.

-------------------------

Mixer.

I will settle on dbx Driverack 260. Since it has feedback eliminator and can do the crossover to subwoofer.

The dbx Driverack 260 has 3 XLR input. So 2 for mic and the other for the Karaoke player?

--------------------------------

Subwoofer

I have 2 Rymthik E15HP. I do not have space for another subwoofer. So my options are

1. Use the 2 Rymthiks for both HT and PA. Just need an XLR or RCA converter as I did not order my Rymthiks with XLR options previously.
2. Replace one Rymthik with a PA Subwoofer.

Will prefer option 1. And now seems a possibility. I will not be turning on the AVR while doing Karaoke. So I think it is safe to share the subwoofer.

I will cross over at 60Hz. 80hz if I can find smaller PA speakers.


----------------------------

About Mixer & DBX Driverack 260

Ok I think I will talk about mixer part first as I might have caused some confusion on that part.

1. The DBX Driverack 260 is not a mixer.
The KOD and microphone used for singing should not go into the DBX

2. A Mixer is a hardware that mix different signals into a combined signal.
For the case of karaoke, the different signals that the mixer will mix includes: Signals from Microphones or Signals from the KOD player.
Therefore stuffs like Microphones, KOD, Music players or other source of sound should be plugged into the mixer.

3. The DBX Driverack 260 is a type of Speaker Management System.

Speaker management system can be described as an equipment that has the ability to manage and modify the signals, before distributing these signals to the different types of speakers(subwoofer is a type of speaker) in the PA system.

Some of the jobs that the Speaker Management System does includes:
(a) The job of the Crossover
(b) The job of the Equaliser
(c) The job of the Limiter
(d) The job of the Feedback Eliminator
(e) Other features

Therefore, the Speaker Management System is usually placed before the Power amplifiers or the Active Speakers. It has to be placed here because its job is to help distribute the correct signal to the correct speakers.

This also implies that the OUTPUT from the Mixer will go directly into the INPUTS of the Speaker Management System.

Now, in your post, you mentioned that the DBX Driverack 260 has 3 INPUTS, the Mixer will take up 2(Left Channel and Right Channel) of the 3 INPUTS on the DBX Driverack 260.

The Last INPUT of the DBX is meant for RTA Microphone. The reason for the RTA Microphone INPUT is because this particular model has the ability to do auto equalisation for the system based on what the RTA mic picks up. It is similar to the "Audyssey" in a HT set up.

Lastly, after all the words above, it is not compulsory to use a Speaker Management System in the PA system unless you need its features.

Which leads to the next point, what are the necessary equipments needed for Karaoke using PA system?

---End of mixer & DBX Driverack 260---

4. Different Setup of PA System with different equipments

4(a) The Bare Minimum
*Note that the amount of microphones depends on the amount of inputs on the mixer



Mixer mixes the music n human voices, outputs to active speakers.

The mixer in the illustrations are normal mixers.
Note that some model of mixers are called "powered mixers" as they includes built-in power amplifier to drive passive speakers directly.

4(b)
*Same as before, note that the amount of microphones depends on the amount of available inputs on the mixer

*An equaliser has been added into the system.
In a PA System, the equaliser is a popular device to help eliminate feedback by attenuating the problematic frequency. The catch is that it requires some skills n experience in identifying these feedback freq, thus ask if the shop can help to set up and tune if u decide to add in an equaliser.



4(c)
*Same as before, note that the amount of microphones depends on the amount of available inputs on the mixer

*Note that two subwoofers(It can be 2 of the E15HP or other subs) are added in. Also, in this scenario, i make use of the subwoofer's built in cross over.


4(d)
*Same as before, note that the amount of microphones depends on the amount of available inputs on the mixer

*Note that the following picture is slightly different from 4(c).

In 4(c), all the signals go into the subwoofer, then go through the subwoofer's built in crossover, and finally to the Active speakers.

In 4(d), i included an External Crossover. All signal goes into the External Crossover. Then the appropriate signals are being sent to the speakers and subwoofers



4(e)

Finally, this will help to illlustrate what the DBX Driverack or any other Speaker management system helps to do.

Note that the external crossover and equaliser has disappeared. This is because both of their jobs are taken over by the Speaker Management System.

As mentioned in point 3 above, the speaker management system can do a lot of jobs.



In summary, as mentioned in your first post, a set up like what is shown in 4(a) is the bare minimum needed for a Karaoke.

Yes, Since you already have two HT subs, can just use them, not compulsory to purchase a PA subwoofer with PA speakers.
Point 4(c) seems to be the cheapest way to integrate the subwoofers properly. There are other ways too, no right or wrong

Really depends on how you want to crossover the speakers, different people different way and also depend on the freq response of the speakers and subs. Must play around
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Last edited by mypillowtalks; 26-09-2017 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 26-09-2017, 10:36 AM   #14
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Hi mypillowtalks,

Great great thanks to the long and detail explanations. I understand much more.
---------------

4(e) and DBX DriveRack 260

After reading all the options, I will go 4(e) and invest on DBX DriveRack 260 (SGD1,002 at Swee Lee). The feedback eliminator, crossover and auto-equalization features are very helpful for a novice like me.

I also looking at the new model DriveRack Venue360 ( SGD 1,336 at Swee Lee). From prosoundweb ( I cannot post link yet) site, there are many other new useful features, faster processor and control via tablet and PC. it might worth to pay the extra SGD330.

------------------

RTA Mic

At Swee Lee site, I also saw DBX RTA-M Reference Microphone (SGD155). It is plug directly into the XLR without any wire. From HT, we always put the mic at the MLP. for PA, no need for equalization?

-------------------

Mixer

Back to mixer jungle. At Swee Lee Site alone, there are 66 options.
Any advice?


----------------------

Passive Speakers

Saw a lot of passive speakers at Swee Lee site. Martin Audio has 8" that fit into my space. Are they any good?

-----------------------
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Old 27-09-2017, 12:31 AM   #15
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It seems like the DBX Venu360 is very worth it since it can be controlled by a tablet, more use friendly. I did not use the Venu360 before. $1336 is very cheap, and it can do more than the DR260!
(I bought the DBX DR260 many years ago at $2k+ )

It will take some effort to learn how to use a Speaker Management System, and best to read the manual and see what each model can do or cannot do.

When first started, it may be difficult to set the parameters on the small screen using only the knob and the buttons. But no problem once u are familiar.

For the older DBX DR260 im using, it takes some effort to navigate through the menu using the knobs n buttons before i can do tuning on the EQ, the disadvantage of this is that i cannot tune the EQ immediately.

Also the Driverack have this "Subharmonic Synthesizer".
It helps to add in Low frequencies harmonics in real time to the existing sound. I think this will be good for HT subs as HT subs have lots of excursions to handle this.

There are people who are against using this feature for PA subs as PA subs have less excursions, and there are cases of driver popping out at very high volumes. I tried it on my PA subs(within its limits) once at an event, very addictive feature, some people walking by will stop and listen, can feel the air getting pressurised.


If you are interested in other alternative, Behringer also makes a similar product

Or Lake products

Oh and yes speaking of lake, lab gruppen makes powerful amplifiers, i think some HT guys use lab gruppen amps to power their HT subs. Another brand called PKN controls makes power amplfiers that runs on 3 phase power
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Though i did not do it before, if needed, I will connect an XLR wire to the RTA mic, and place the mic at the MLP point for the Speaker management system to do the tuning.

Not sure if the physical size of the rta mic can fit the input plug directly.

Same as HT, there is a need for equalisation on the PA system, depending on the different venues they are installed in. Every venue will be slightly different. It is about sound waves after all.

Not so related:
Spoiler!


Fortunately at home, the speakers and subs and the MLP are somewhat near, but no harm to do auto equalisation.

However, some will prefer not to do auto eq, as they prefer to manually tune the equaliser for creative reasons. (eg. more bass, more mid, less highs, less lows, etc)
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For mixer wise, nastromo recommended two products, you can evaluate them and see if it fits what you need.

There are DJ Mixers and Mixers.
The DJ mixer can be viewed as a specially designed mixer for the DJ to connect their turntables and players. The DJ mixer has a crossfader for the DJs to mix two different music from two different channels. It usually feature ONE mic input for the DJ to say some stuffs to the audience
The DJ Mixer is not ideal for karaoke.

A DJ Mixer looks like this (the one on the left):




For Mixers, there are digital and analog mixers. I am slightly more familiar with the basic analog mixers.



It may look complicated at first, but in general it is just an array of input channels linked together.

In other words, it is made up of many of these:
This is a top view of how 1 channel of an analog mixer will look like. Depending on the model, some may have more/less knobs to tune, some may replace the fader with a knob to make it more compact.

Some explanation:

Spoiler!


Before buying a mixer, i will estimate how many inputs i will need.
Each microphone will take up 1 channel, and the KOD Player usually takes up 2 channels (Left and Right).

Note that some fader will control 2 channels, eg:

Note the bottom writes 9/10. the knobs n faders control both channels 9 and 10 simultaneously. the KOD player can be connected into channel 9 and 10 for easier control.

Lets say 4 friends wants to sing simultaneously, this requires 4 mics and 1 KOD player. 4 + 2 = 6 channels.

If you want to connect music from your PC into the mixer without unplugging the KOD, it will take up another 2 channels.
Total will be 8 channels.

This will help u determine how many channels you will need.

After determining how many channels, next will be to see what features are on the mixer. Some mixers feature processors from well known manufacturers like klark teknic, then it will cost more. Some mixers have high quality pre-amp and willl be more expensive

One way is to borrow a headphone and plug into the mixer. If use own headphone w 3.5mm, need buy converter to 1/4 inch. Then get the shop to borrow u a mic if possible. Turn up the preamp n turn on the mic, and see how it sounds, listen thru the earpiece to see if the hissing is excessively loud. Then speak into the mic n listen. Then turn up the effects n listen. Finally, see if they allow you to hook it up to the pa speaker and listen.

Sim lim tower has some prosound shops selling mixers n amps n speakers. Can go see. Can ask them demo also.

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It will be good to listen to how the martin audio 8" sounds.
Is the martin audio u seen this martin audio?
Martin Audio is a good brand as well, quite expensive.

I saw before people using a china made "martin audio", same name but different from the one i posted.

Maybe I will compare it against the QSC K8.2 and the jbl ac18. Thr jbl ac18 looks good, the horn's dispersion angle is quite big all around
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Last edited by mypillowtalks; 27-09-2017 at 03:34 AM..
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