[HELP] partner been investing in Manulife ILP

torrent06

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5k lost is harsh but not the worse in the world. I want to separate investment and insurance components. Will ask her to get term life insurance. Just dont want to let the 5k sunk cost persuade us to continue ilp for another decade.

(as u can see she now allows me make financial decisions, this policy was gotten when she was younger.. hais)

thanks all, please add on anymore views

Pls make sure she has other life insurance in place (not just approved, issued but waiting period for all diseases eg heart condition, cancer etc fulfilled) before you surrender the ILP. Not trying to jinx you but better to have an expensive insurance in place than no insurance if you need to claim. I am still holding on to my ilp (running on its cash value, not paying any more premiums) as it was bought before I got diagnosed with a pretty rare health condition.
 
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lewissac

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Pls make sure she has other life insurance in place (not just approved, issued but waiting peiod for all diseases eg heart condition, cancer etc fulfilled) before you surrender the ILP. Not trying to jinx you but better to have an expensive insurance in place than no insurance if you need to claim. I am still holding on to my ilp (running on its cash value, not paying any more premiums) as it was bought before I got diagnosed with a pretty rare health condition.

Oh, if it really tied with insurance component, then get yourself covered with another term/whole-life first before cancelling them.

Insurance MUST comes first before investment. That is why I always emphasize my fellow juniors, when start out working first thing to invest is not shares, but insurance. Always always invest yourself for a good term-life coverage premium first before anything else. :)
 

dolph001

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I dont know all the details but she invested so far 200/month in ILP so approx after 3 years about $7200.

Fund is https://www.manulife.com.sg/Funds#!/fund/detail/Manulife Global Asset Allocation Growth Fund

Doesnt seem to be doing well? Additionally, 1.35% management fee charge! Am I wrong to say 200$ a month put into ETF is a better investment?

1. Should ask her to optout of this? Can she get cash if cash out and the net loss of it worth to take the hit? Thinking long term, any losses is still minimal at this juncture

2. What about insurance component of ILP? if opt out as well.

Thanks bros!

https://www.manulife.com.sg/servlet/servlet.FileDownload?file=00P1000000g2Ka6EAE

Fund (Offer to bid)* returns in SGD is 2.88%; hedged is -2.48%; in USD is -4.24% since inception. :(

Are you aware of "Offer price at 5% sales charge. Applicable to regular premium plans."?

She has to pay 5% fees each month to buy & 1.35% management fee each year. :s22:

Terminate and get back less than 20% of her capital.

Recommended to terminate though.
 

anfielder

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https://www.manulife.com.sg/servlet/servlet.FileDownload?file=00P1000000g2Ka6EAE

Fund (Offer to bid)* returns in SGD is 2.88%; hedged is -2.48%; in USD is -4.24% since inception. :(

Are you aware of "Offer price at 5% sales charge. Applicable to regular premium plans."?

She has to pay 5% fees each month to buy & 1.35% management fee each year. :s22:

Terminate and get back less than 20% of her capital.

Recommended to terminate though.

The 5% sales charge is one-off, so that sucks but it's not the worst bit. The management fee is recurring & the more your units are worth, the higher the fees you are paying. Plus there are usually admin charges ($5 per mth for Pru).

Basically, a crapload of charges. Terminate if possible.
 

akwl88

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as i said before, why do pple like to buy investment products to break even???

its like buying sti and breaking even after 10 or 15 yrs :eek:

get term insurance covering death,tpd and ci and hosp plans with rider if you want to stay in pte hosp

term plan very cheap. 500k for death and tpd, 200k for ci maybe costs ard 1k per year

high coverage with low premiums

sti deliver ard 5% returns last year, including dividends
 

vince123123

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I only have one thing to add regarding the cautions on the "insurance" element of your ILP. From what I am aware, the insurance component on the ILP is likely to be abysmally small in proportion to what you paid as far as the sum covered. If it is such a small amount, might as well just give it up and get another insurance which will do better.

These "neither investment nor insurance" ILPs do not do well at either being neither here nor there. Just a way by agents to bluff you to say that it gives you a little bit of this and that and people get suckered in thinking its a good "all-in-one buy and forget" policy.
 

akwl88

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if pple think 10k payout for death in an ilp is "insurance", they deserve to be scammed
 

alexilaiho

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luckily the amount not that big yet.. can count my losses lucky.. surprisingly her 20k manulife cpf investment (paid off in full) is at 27k now
 

anfielder

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luckily the amount not that big yet.. can count my losses lucky.. surprisingly her 20k manulife cpf investment (paid off in full) is at 27k now

That's because those are (almost) pure investments with minimal insurance coverage. so you don't have half the first year premium going to the agent.

It will be easy to buy a comparable etf that doesn't charge so much in annual fees.
 

blurpandasg2014

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I dont know all the details but she invested so far 200/month in ILP so approx after 3 years about $7200.

Fund is https://www.manulife.com.sg/Funds#!/fund/detail/Manulife Global Asset Allocation Growth Fund

Doesnt seem to be doing well? Additionally, 1.35% management fee charge! Am I wrong to say 200$ a month put into ETF is a better investment?

1. Should ask her to optout of this? Can she get cash if cash out and the net loss of it worth to take the hit? Thinking long term, any losses is still minimal at this juncture

2. What about insurance component of ILP? if opt out as well.

Thanks bros!

Cancel ILP. Cut loss, buy term insurance to cover insurance needs. Do RSP for STI ETF
 

harky

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200/month in ILP quite alot le...
can buy alot of gd policy na..
 

koreanlover

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No. A low cost ETF is much much much better. Unit trusts have far higher management fees than low cost ETFs. And many don't beat the respective market benchmarks anyway.

Yes, the STI is anemic, so if you want world exposure, you have to go the way Shiny recommends: IWDA.



1. Most of the money is already eaten up by the agent fees and management fees.

This is how it works for ILPs. Agent fees followed by insurance premiums are first deducted from what you pay, and whatever that is left goes into buying units of the unit trust. In the first few years, the bulk of what you pay goes into the agent's cut, so very few units are bought (yes, LLST). You won't see the money back (because it's in the agent's pocket).

2. Term insurance. H&S insurance. You don't need anything else.




It's your partner's money, so...

Yes IWDA has been performing well lately, near 52 week and all time high.
 

mirage1981

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I have also signed up for a Manulife policy. However, mine is pure investment.

Its called Income Series Global Asset allocation growth fund.

I put in $100k and it will generate dividends of $600+ per month (non-guaranteed). However, based on the past 1 year record, the dividend has been the same amount. My agent asked me to reinvest the dividend but I did not want to put all my eggs into the basket. As I will get $7.2k per year from the dividends, I decided to put $7k into my CPF SA as voluntary contribution. Thus I am using this to generate funds for my retirement.

I feel insurance shouldn't be linked to investments. If want to buy insurance, just go for pure insurance. My wife's ILP .. 9 years already.. still quite badly in the red. As the initial years, most of the money is pumped into paying for costs and insurance.. the investment returns are paltry.
 

dkgamer

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I have also signed up for a Manulife policy. However, mine is pure investment.

Its called Income Series Global Asset allocation growth fund.

I put in $100k and it will generate dividends of $600+ per month (non-guaranteed). However, based on the past 1 year record, the dividend has been the same amount. My agent asked me to reinvest the dividend but I did not want to put all my eggs into the basket. As I will get $7.2k per year from the dividends, I decided to put $7k into my CPF SA as voluntary contribution. Thus I am using this to generate funds for my retirement.

I feel insurance shouldn't be linked to investments. If want to buy insurance, just go for pure insurance. My wife's ILP .. 9 years already.. still quite badly in the red. As the initial years, most of the money is pumped into paying for costs and insurance.. the investment returns are paltry.

Did the value of units stay consistent after the dividend payout?
 

Bigoya

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I dont know all the details but she invested so far 200/month in ILP so approx after 3 years about $7200.

Fund is https://www.manulife.com.sg/Funds#!/fund/detail/Manulife Global Asset Allocation Growth Fund

Doesnt seem to be doing well? Additionally, 1.35% management fee charge! Am I wrong to say 200$ a month put into ETF is a better investment?

1. Should ask her to optout of this? Can she get cash if cash out and the net loss of it worth to take the hit? Thinking long term, any losses is still minimal at this juncture

2. What about insurance component of ILP? if opt out as well.

Thanks bros!

Looking at the fund fact sheet last updated in Nov'16, The fund performance of "MGAA-Growth A-MDis SGD (in SGD)" offer to bid is -3.99% YTD. If you realized, the fund chart has shown growth during this period, but due to the fees, your partner still makes a loss in the investment. Is this a good fund? Will she continue loosing not due to the fund performance but because of the fees she's paying? We have not even taken the premium allocations into considerations yet.

You are definitely right to say an ETF is much better, the level of commitment (in terms of money and amt of homework) is entirely the same as her ILP, especially if her adviser is not putting effort into managing her portfolio at all.

Long term wise, at the current rate of growth, it makes better sense to get out since all the returns from the fund would be eaten by the on-going fees alone.

As for the insurance component, I'm 100% certain she can get the exact same coverage with a Term plan at a much lower mortality cost compared to an ILP.
 

Bigoya

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i know bro... now problem is do we just cash out? get back 50% i happy alr, putting 200$ a month with sizeable portion in management fees etc doesnt make me feel good. see alot of stories here of 10yrs plus holding ilp

Judging from the ManLink FlexiPlus allocation rate, 15% of 1st yr premium allocated for investment in yr 1, 54% in yr 2 and 3 (current year), I highly doubt you have 50% of capital to take back. Furthermore, the invested portion is loosing value to the fees. Regardless of how much your surrender value is, it still makes better sense to cut the losses and get out now and grow back the money elsewhere.
 

Bigoya

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Depends.

If she thinks that she can't afford to wait for another 10-15 years to BREAKEVEN and get back her capital (without loss), then just cut it. Expect to lose 70% or more/less of the $7200 capital dumped.

But from what I read the financial report there, doesn't look promising too as of 2015/2016.

Nobody can afford to wait 10-15yrs just to breakeven. The opportunity cost is too much for anyone to loose. Furthermore, that means future cashflow of $200/mth being trapped as well when they could have grown at 3% p.a. or higher elsewhere.
 

anfielder

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I have also signed up for a Manulife policy. However, mine is pure investment.

Its called Income Series Global Asset allocation growth fund.

I put in $100k and it will generate dividends of $600+ per month (non-guaranteed). However, based on the past 1 year record, the dividend has been the same amount. My agent asked me to reinvest the dividend but I did not want to put all my eggs into the basket. As I will get $7.2k per year from the dividends, I decided to put $7k into my CPF SA as voluntary contribution. Thus I am using this to generate funds for my retirement.

I feel insurance shouldn't be linked to investments. If want to buy insurance, just go for pure insurance. My wife's ILP .. 9 years already.. still quite badly in the red. As the initial years, most of the money is pumped into paying for costs and insurance.. the investment returns are paltry.

The returns of the Income Series Global Asset allocation growth fund are a lot less than 7%. You may be getting the dividend payout, but looks like your capital is shrinking too! In fact the price of each unit is lower than the launch price.

I got the info from the link below, feel free to check.

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/fundinfo/viewFund.svdo?sedolnumber=MAM022
 

mirage1981

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The returns of the Income Series Global Asset allocation growth fund are a lot less than 7%. You may be getting the dividend payout, but looks like your capital is shrinking too! In fact the price of each unit is lower than the launch price.

I got the info from the link below, feel free to check.




Yes, the price of each unit is lower than launch price if bought when the fund was launched. However, I bought into this funds only 2 months ago so am hoping for dividends plus some capital appreciation. Sort of investing for income. If the price keeps dropping though, then have to weigh the options again. Cos might as well put into some blue-chips with dividends for the long term then.
 
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