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Old 17-09-2015, 07:26 PM   #16
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hahaha, to each his own, moi not greedy for insurance purpose, hahaha
That's why get the most efficient insurance, term plan.

moi can only say there is not enough research/study on wholelife policies in this forum, people here only talk term and self investment is better, hahaha
BTIR has proven itself over decades, you can backtest in the US over century.
There are tons of articles on BTIR actually.

Wholelife policies is a mixed bag in terms of total return. There's a reason why BTIR is famous for it's returns while wholelife isn't.
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:30 PM   #17
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Hello all,

Thank you all so much for your inputs! Kamsahamnida! I will probably be switching to another policy. Anybody has any recommendations or suggestions? Should I go ahead with the life policy (AIA guaranteed protect plus)?

@wts2013: do you mind sharing with me roughly what wholelife policies are like? If I'm not wrong, the AIA policy I mentioned is a term policy?

@ntucagent: in this case, would the guaranteed protect plus plan be suitable? From what I know, that policy requires me to pay for 12/20 years, and I will be covered until 100. Have not gotten any info from my agent yet.

@ochazuke: I actually have no investment knowledge, and also don't have the funds to invest. So I will probably not be doing any investments in the short term.

@perisher: may I ask, what are BTIRs?
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:32 PM   #18
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Hello all,

Thank you all so much for your inputs! Kamsahamnida! I will probably be switching to another policy. Anybody has any recommendations or suggestions? Should I go ahead with the life policy (AIA guaranteed protect plus)?

@wts2013: do you mind sharing with me roughly what wholelife policies are like? If I'm not wrong, the AIA policy I mentioned is a term policy?

@ntucagent: in this case, would the guaranteed protect plus plan be suitable? From what I know, that policy requires me to pay for 12/20 years, and I will be covered until 100. Have not gotten any info from my agent yet.

@ochazuke: I actually have no investment knowledge, and also don't have the funds to invest. So I will probably not be doing any investments in the short term.

@perisher: may I ask, what are BTIRs?
Buy term invest the rest.
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:34 PM   #19
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That's why get the most efficient insurance, term plan.



BTIR has proven itself over decades, you can backtest in the US over century.
There are tons of articles on BTIR actually.

Wholelife policies is a mixed bag in terms of total return. There's a reason why BTIR is famous for it's returns while wholelife isn't.
hahaha, no need to go for the famous, no need to go for the hype, so long it meets my needs, its my business decision, its my retirement plan, hahaha
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:37 PM   #20
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hahaha, no need to go for the famous, no need to go for the hype, so long it meets my needs, its my business decision, its my retirement plan, hahaha
You asked for research and there are many backtest and research for index ETF investing but I know I can't change your mind since you already made it up long ago...
BTIR does have some hype but most of it have substance.
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Old 17-09-2015, 07:45 PM   #21
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You asked for research and there are many backtest and research for index ETF investing but I know I can't change your mind since you already made it up long ago...
BTIR does have some hype but most of it have substance.
hahaha, moi can share with chiu, when one is at the start of a career, there is only time spent on the career with objective to work hard to earn big salary, no time for other things, once the person can earn high salary, there is no need to invest to make money, that was fundamental for moi, hahaha
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Old 17-09-2015, 09:06 PM   #22
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See: http://www.investmentmoats.com/budge...-to-5-returns/

Mine is NTUC Living Policy, about 4% return. There is one called NTUC Anticipation, that's probably the 5% he is referring to. Now, cannot get already, so why living in the past.

If you want to live in the past, can talk about buying landed property in the 1980s for $100,000 and selling 20 years later for $1m. 1000% return.
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Old 17-09-2015, 09:53 PM   #23
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See: http://www.investmentmoats.com/budge...-to-5-returns/

Mine is NTUC Living Policy, about 4% return. There is one called NTUC Anticipation, that's probably the 5% he is referring to. Now, cannot get already, so why living in the past.

If you want to live in the past, can talk about buying landed property in the 1980s for $100,000 and selling 20 years later for $1m. 1000% return.
hahaha, buay tahan ah, mai kay kiang lah, wonder who is still living in the past leh, ntuc no longer offer Living Policy leh, the policy moi talking about is still available leh, hahaha, mai ka li kong leh, kay kiang hor, hahaha, ai koon liao, hahaha

btw ntuc still got advertise in the papers how much returns their policies gives, that was the rate they advertise leh, bo kua tio ah, hahaha
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Old 17-09-2015, 10:36 PM   #24
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hahaha, buay tahan ah, mai kay kiang lah, wonder who is still living in the past leh, ntuc no longer offer Living Policy leh, the policy moi talking about is still available leh, hahaha, mai ka li kong leh, kay kiang hor, hahaha, ai koon liao, hahaha

btw ntuc still got advertise in the papers how much returns their policies gives, that was the rate they advertise leh, bo kua tio ah, hahaha
Since you still haven't named the policy and shown the link to the actual returns despite so many posts, I assume you are trolling rather than wanting to help people choose a good deal.
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Old 18-09-2015, 02:05 AM   #25
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Hello all,

Thank you all so much for your inputs! Kamsahamnida! I will probably be switching to another policy. Anybody has any recommendations or suggestions? Should I go ahead with the life policy (AIA guaranteed protect plus)?

@wts2013: do you mind sharing with me roughly what wholelife policies are like? If I'm not wrong, the AIA policy I mentioned is a term policy?

@ntucagent: in this case, would the guaranteed protect plus plan be suitable? From what I know, that policy requires me to pay for 12/20 years, and I will be covered until 100. Have not gotten any info from my agent yet.

@ochazuke: I actually have no investment knowledge, and also don't have the funds to invest. So I will probably not be doing any investments in the short term.

@perisher: may I ask, what are BTIRs?
@BunnyE,
Looks like you won't be getting much answer in the middle of their fight so hope that I can help you out here. You are really new to this, so I shall do my best to explain more details.

Whole Life insurance pays a benefit on the death of the insured and also accumulates a cash value. Although it is call whole life, depending on the insurer, it may cover only up to 99 or 100 years old.

Term Life insurance only pays a benefit on the death of the insured. Usually, the cover is up to 65 to 85 years old.

AIA guaranteed protect plus is a whole-life policy. The term life for AIA is the AIA Secure Term Plus (II).

Obviously, the whole life insurance premium is going to be more ex than the term life insurance premium.
For example: Whole life - $300/month, term life - $50/month for the same coverage
So the argument will be on which is better ?

wts2013 thinks whole life is better because of the additional cash value.

perisher and ochazuke think Buy term and invest (BTIR) the rest is better. This means that instead of spending $300/month on whole life. You spend $50/month on the term life and invest the $250 on your own.

Statistically speaking, BTIR will be better as insurer usually charges high fee when they invest on your behalf.
If you don't know how to invest, you may want to consider the POSB Invest-Saver. I won't consider the fee cheap, but it's a good place for beginner to start.
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Old 18-09-2015, 05:04 AM   #26
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hahaha, buay tahan ah, mai kay kiang lah, wonder who is still living in the past leh, ntuc no longer offer Living Policy leh, the policy moi talking about is still available leh, hahaha, mai ka li kong leh, kay kiang hor, hahaha, ai koon liao, hahaha

btw ntuc still got advertise in the papers how much returns their policies gives, that was the rate they advertise leh, bo kua tio ah, hahaha
Ain't helping anyone by doing that. Mind putting the petty differences aside and tell people what that policy is?

Try not to advise half-heartedly, either help or don't, otherwise you might just get people confuse and they might end up getting the wrong thing.
If you don't wish to reveal what policy can do what, then don't make a statement that wholelife is good, most of it isn't so you have to be specific.

On another note here are many plans comparison, it does seems NTUC has some of the best policy but unfortunately some is no longer available.
http://www.investmentmoats.com/budge...-to-5-returns/
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Old 18-09-2015, 05:15 AM   #27
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Morning perisher..thats early..i'm still following up
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Old 18-09-2015, 07:53 AM   #28
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Morning perisher..thats early..i'm still following up
Morning. You are pretty early too.
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Old 18-09-2015, 11:10 AM   #29
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"@ntucagent: in this case, would the guaranteed protect plus plan be suitable? From what I know, that policy requires me to pay for 12/20 years, and I will be covered until 100. Have not gotten any info from my agent yet. "

Suitable or not will depend on your overall objective and unless we sit down together to do a thorough review, there's no way to know if this plan is suitable.

On a personal level, there are many plans for me to use for planning. But this AIA ILP is definitely not one of them.

In case anyone think I am having sour grapes, I can sell AIA plans as well.
In any case, Would highly recommend against any ILP.
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Old 18-09-2015, 12:04 PM   #30
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TS,

Do not mix insurance with investment. Simply being the first half a decade you'll be paying fees to your agent at an alarming rate and the yearly fund management fee which is exorbitant if you compound it over the decades. And not forgetting the monthly policy fee you have to pay if you do not already know. $5 if am not mistaken because I had the same plan. Get a term plan to say 65 or 75 years old because the basis of having insurance is to cover your loved ones when you pass on. When you're 65 or 75 and if you have done simple investing in the long run (buying etf), your assets will make the death benefit seems like a peanut change.

I quote from a calculation i did some time back:

Hi TS,

I did a calculation with these figures for my ILP (and i just cancelled it after 3 years with a '$3.8k' loss but heck it's worth it.

mine was family protect first (a play of name i guess) and $2k/year

Starting from now, paying a premium of $400-$500/year for a term premium coverage of $100k for death, major CI and TPD till age 75, that leaves me with ($2k-$500=$1.5k) for investment per year.

Supposedly the AIA funds can generate 7% CONSISTENTLY till 65 (which is a generous figure I am freaking giving it), and my own portfolio can generate 7% as well (easily achieveable with index investing, gains and dividends), we will see the break down as such

FOR ILP (I factored in that the 4th - 6th year it will be 100% and 7th to 10th year it will be 102% and 11th year onwards will be 105%):
At age 65, I would have the results:
Insurance premium paid: $32,339 (factoring in the rate of CI,TPD and death multiply by per $1k coverage. I was covered for $100,000 for all)
Investment: $176,503 (every year subtract fund management fee of 1.5%, minus policy fee of $5/month and minus amount deducted for insurance and a 7% growth yearly. I have yet to take into consideration if any other fees are involved)

For quitting now and getting a term to cover the same and doing self investment and at age 65, I would have the results ($500/year for term, $1.5k self-invest in etf with 7% return):
Insurance premium paid: $18,500
Investment: $240,506 (factoring in the charges i use for SCB)


It is a no brainer which is the winner right? hope people who want to buy ilp can see this. Of course if you are damn lazy to not want to do anything other than leaving everything to GIRO, then by all means go ahead with ILP

If you want to control a bit by spending a few minutes once a year to rebalance portfolio, you'll see yourself $70k richer with just the two different approaches

Cheers
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