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BHS increase to $52K from 1 Jan 2017

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Old 30-12-2016, 02:25 PM   #16
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For those at 88yo he may pay Medishit Life $615/yr but can only claim $530 from MSL. The rest use MA to pay.
Which is the correct MediShield Life math for the 5 day hospital stay of that nature in that specific example. It's not the correct math for a 6 day stay.

So is your proposed alternative that the government increase general tax rates, or expand the personal income tax to cover passive income, or some of both, in order to fund a single payer, universal (citizens and PRs) program that pays all medical expenses for all medically necessary care, with modest co-pays that are partially or fully waived for Singaporeans of modest means? Then we wouldn't need Medisave Accounts and MediShield Life. There'd be a different, more globally typical medical financing system.

What do you think?
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Old 30-12-2016, 02:49 PM   #17
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Which is the correct MediShield Life math for the 5 day hospital stay of that nature in that specific example. It's not the correct math for a 6 day stay.

So is your proposed alternative that the government increase general tax rates, or expand the personal income tax to cover passive income, or some of both, in order to fund a single payer, universal (citizens and PRs) program that pays all medical expenses for all medically necessary care, with modest co-pays that are partially or fully waived for Singaporeans of modest means? Then we wouldn't need Medisave Accounts and MediShield Life. There'd be a different, more globally typical medical financing system.

What do you think?
What are your thoughts about the Medishield Life program collecting more premiums than the total pay-out in 2016?

Do you feel it will be fairer to return to participating members the collective excess in amounts proportionate to the payments made since monies that move out of the Medisave accounts do not generate interest?
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Old 30-12-2016, 02:56 PM   #18
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Which is the correct MediShield Life math for the 5 day hospital stay of that nature in that specific example. It's not the correct math for a 6 day stay.

So is your proposed alternative that the government increase general tax rates, or expand the personal income tax to cover passive income, or some of both, in order to fund a single payer, universal (citizens and PRs) program that pays all medical expenses for all medically necessary care, with modest co-pays that are partially or fully waived for Singaporeans of modest means? Then we wouldn't need Medisave Accounts and MediShield Life. There'd be a different, more globally typical medical financing system.

What do you think?
I think u are not getting his point. if u pay $600 for insurance but can only claim up to $400, then might as well not pay for insurance and just pay for the $400 out of ur own pocket ?
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:01 PM   #19
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wow fookers!!!!boycott cpf and medishield!!!

i have a question,if u have substantial insurance premiums and have been paying $200 to $400 premiums all ur life,why do u still need to pay to medishield?why do u need so many components,government subsidy with taxpayers money,private insurance coverage and medishield just to provide complete healthcare coverage in this country?is the garmen trying to sucker our money?im not surprise considering how many ways the garmen is already suckering our money.HDB for one.
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:04 PM   #20
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not everyone has insurance mah...

on a side note, I realise the interest will be credited on 31 Dec but BHS increase is from 1 Jan onwards. Will that mean interest still flow back to SA (as it hit 2016 cap)? But doesn't matter, we will know in 1- 2 days' time
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:12 PM   #21
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What are your thoughts about the Medishield Life program collecting more premiums than the total pay-out in 2016?
It makes perfect, medical actuarial sense, at least if you want to plan ahead (not a bad idea). If Singaporeans suddenly start having more and smarter babies (or if the nation imports many more), then the premiums (taxes) could be reduced, or payout ratios improved, or covered benefits expanded, or some of all of the above.

Do you feel it will be fairer to return to participating members the collective excess in amounts proportionate to the payments made since monies that move out of the Medisave accounts do not generate interest?
Assuming the first principle (rapidly graying population), you could probably do it that way if you also:

(a) Returned the funds to Medisave (or never took them out in the first place), including any premiums paid in cash;
(b) Increased Medisave Account caps (the BHS) a bit faster;
(c) Required inherited Medisave Accounts to go into the heirs' Medisave Accounts (instead of as cash payouts), or toward medical charities.

But there'd still be some distributional problems with that substitution. Not everybody has a Medisave Account of moderate or greater size.

The bottom line is that, if you've got a graying population (we do), then medical spending is almost certainly going to have to grow as a share of the national economy, even if you want to maintain only equal per capita services. (And that's not a given either. Example: the HPV vaccine, recently improved. GARDASIL 9 costs a few hundred dollars per person -- age 9 or 10 is the perfect time to vaccinate -- but probably prevents about 2/3rds of all cervical cancers decades later. And may allow less frequent gynecological checkups -- with 6 month longer gaps between checkups, for example. It's helpful to men, too, in reducing certain less common forms of cancer. Some governments are subsidizing that new vaccine in universal vaccination programs. Singapore is not, not yet. Should Singapore? It can afford it, and her people would be better off, but public medical spending would have to rise even faster to make it happen.)

Yes, you could put the whole financing system on a strict "pay as you go" model, and make MediShield Life inflows equal outflows every year. But the problem with that is that the public has to ride a more sharply rising cost curve year to year, with faster MediShield Life premium increases, well above the rate of general inflation. It's a choice, and the government has made a considered one, if nothing else.

Last edited by BBCWatcher; 30-12-2016 at 03:16 PM..
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:18 PM   #22
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I think u are not getting his point.
I think I am. Let's hope everyone age 88 doesn't have to stay more than 5 days in the hospital, or have any other procedures done, than the specific reimbursement example in that illustration. But that's not reality, of course.

MediShield Life does have an actual payout cap, but it's $100,000 per year per person.
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:22 PM   #23
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UPDATED (26 DEC 16):
Reader:
"Recently, my friend who got into insurance gave me his sales pitch about how Medishield Life is inadequate..."
AK:
"Well, you said it was a sales pitch.
If we are OK with staying in Class C and B2 wards, Medishield Life is enough. This is a fact."

http://singaporeanstocksinvestor.blo...insurance.html
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:29 PM   #24
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is the garmen trying to sucker our money?
Nope, at least not on this occasion.

Singaporeans want and need medical care. Medical care requires financing. That financing can be all public (out of general tax revenues for example), all private, or a combination of both. It can be pay-as-you-go, which (with an aging population) results in faster spending increases than general inflation even if you maintain equal covered services with equal productivity (both not givens). Or it can be with a build-up of surpluses to then pay for those future, greater needs -- and with lower rates of premium increases. Singapore has adopted the latter approach. It's planning ahead.

Medical care needs really do peak toward end of life. If you have private medical financing, then that financing must be geared toward that reality, too. Which means you have a Medisave Account, and it needs to grow. Because, on average, you get old and need more medical care when you're old. Medical needs are demographically different than, say, Zouk cover charges.

Which is why I asked the question I did. If you don't like the current system, then what you're really saying is you don't like the heavily private financing nature of the current medical system in Singapore. Singapore is rather different than other developed countries in this "personal responsibility" sort of philosophy when it comes to medical care. More American and Swiss, less French and British. So do you want something closer to what France has? It's possible. Singapore and her taxpayers can easily afford it.

Regardless, go have some more babies, and the government won't have to plan ahead as much.
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:36 PM   #25
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your unused money in medisave can be passed down to your children as cash

1.  How do I know if my loved one has any CPF money and if they had made a valid nomination?

The money from the Central Provident Fund (CPF) of a person who has died will be distributed in line with the nomination they made during their lifetime.

You will need to check with the CPF Board whether the person who has died had made a valid nomination for their CPF money. If they had, the CPF Board will pay the money direct to the person or people they nominated (if those people are older than 18).

If the person who has died did not make a valid nomination, the CPF Board will send their CPF money to us, as required by law.

The CPF Board will also send us the CPF money of a person who has died if the person chosen to receive that money is under 18 years old (unless she is a widow).
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:38 PM   #26
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A CPF nomination provides CPF members with the option to specify who will receive their CPF savings, and how much each nominee should receive, upon their demise.*

You should make a CPF nomination if you want your CPF savings to be distributed according to your wishes. If you do not make a CPF nomination, your CPF savings will be transferred to the Public Trustee’s Office (PTO) for distribution to your family members under the Intestate Succession Act or the Inheritance Certificate (for Muslims). The PTO charges the beneficiaries an administration fee for the distribution of your CPF savings.

What does a CPF Nomination cover?

Covered under CPF Nomination
CPF savings* in your Ordinary, Special, Medisave and Retirement Accounts
Unused CPF LIFE premiums,
Discounted SingTel shares
** CPF savings cannot be included in your Will. They also do not form your estate and are protected from creditor claims on any outstanding debts.
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Old 30-12-2016, 03:39 PM   #27
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Q

Are my Medisave Account savings covered under CPF Nomination?

A
Yes, CPF Nomination covers all savings in your Medisave Account, including those in your Ordinary, Special and Retirement Accounts.
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Old 30-12-2016, 04:30 PM   #28
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Which is the correct MediShield Life math for the 5 day hospital stay of that nature in that specific example. It's not the correct math for a 6 day stay.

So is your proposed alternative that the government increase general tax rates, or expand the personal income tax to cover passive income, or some of both, in order to fund a single payer, universal (citizens and PRs) program that pays all medical expenses for all medically necessary care, with modest co-pays that are partially or fully waived for Singaporeans of modest means? Then we wouldn't need Medisave Accounts and MediShield Life. There'd be a different, more globally typical medical financing system.

What do you think?


I propose to let us use our 52k for any medical expenses. When that amount drop below 15k then gahmen subsidies and medishit life kicks in.

For those who have 15k or less in their MediSave Account, they with be auto covered by the existing gahmen subsidies and medishit life.

Of cause everyone still pays a lower MSL premium. Maybe lower than current rate by 20%.
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Old 30-12-2016, 04:55 PM   #29
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I propose to let us use our 52k for any medical expenses. When that amount drop below 15k then gahmen subsidies and medishit life kicks in.
You can call MediShield Life by its real name, or you can be childish.

Of cause everyone still pays a lower MSL premium. Maybe lower than current rate by 20%.
OK, so fundamentally you're proposing to shift more of the burden for medical funding away from a near-universal insurance pool and more toward individuals and a smaller pool of (on average) sicker people. And to provide greater tax advantages (especially to those in the highest tax brackets) for a much broader range of medical services, beyond the current Medisave scope.

In practice what wealthy/high income Singaporeans would rationally do is to keep topping up their MA (for the tax savings) and consume more medical care that's less medically necessary (since it's tax subsidized). And never fall to $15K, and never pay MediShield Life premiums, probably. They'd self-insure.

So your plan is terrific if you're rich/high income in Singapore, even better than the current system. It's bad if you're not. Wealthy/high income Singaporeans would put more pressure on the medical system and add to medical inflation. Both the MA cap and the various Medisave withdrawal limits (scope of services, etc.) are expressly designed and intended to curtail tax-advantaged medical demand pressures and associated medical inflation, and they do that. Your proposal would uncork that champagne bottle.

Everyone else would have to face that problem of the tax system (especially for the highest income Singaporeans) turbocharging their consumption of medical services, and with a sicker MediShield Life pool. The current MediShield Life premium schedule is not fully age adjusted, and that would have to change under your proposal. Members (some) would pay some premiums while young, fall to zero in productive working years, then come back onto MediShield Life when their Medisave accounts are drained enough. And since MediShield Life would lose its universality (or near-universality), it'd have to give up on its partial age rating, too. So you'd have extremely sharp increases in elder MediShield Life premiums. And currently those premiums are only slightly subsidized for the poorest, and that in turn would have to change -- and that would really, really whack middle class Singaporeans, hard.

Bad plan, sorry, and I say that as somebody who would personally financially benefit from your proposal. Your proposal would result in a toxic death spiral for the medical financing system in Singapore. You'd make the insured pool much sicker, and you'd lavish tax advantages on the highest income Singaporeans to go spend more on medical care. Bad, bad idea.
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Old 31-12-2016, 03:42 AM   #30
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I propose to let us use our 52k for any medical expenses. When that amount drop below 15k then gahmen subsidies and medishit life kicks in.

For those who have 15k or less in their MediSave Account, they with be auto covered by the existing gahmen subsidies and medishit life.

Of cause everyone still pays a lower MSL premium. Maybe lower than current rate by 20%.
Let me elaborate it more because BBCWatcher try to read it as 3 different part.

Firstly the rich that already have enough amount 52k in their MA will pay with their own medical bills from their MediSave. MSL will only kick in when their MA drops below 15k. Everyone including the rich still pays MSL.

The poor will get the existing gahmen subsidies and medishield life claim. They too pay for the MSL.

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My main point is let us use the money that we saved in MA for any medical expenses. For those who don't know about CPF MediSave:

If you're unlucky and get critical illness from the 'can claim list' of CPF then you can use your MediSave. But if you're lucky like my dad whose skin condition is not in that list, you can't use a single cent from it. Btw, he is 70+ with 28k inside his MA.
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