HWZ Forums

Login Register FAQ Mark Forums Read

The Gold Guarantee not a ponzi?

Like Tree22Likes
Share This Page
HardwareZone.com on Facebook
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-12-2012, 11:34 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
s4ndid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,578
Exclamation The Gold Guarantee not a ponzi?

Hi All,

recently i enrolled into bigger brother for Geneva, The Gold Guarantee(TGG) its been 2 months now, collecting the discount promptly.

Holding physicall shining gold on hand, just dont dare to showout else all the HDB neighbour will rob me hehehehe....

question is what is the worriness ? since we hold physicall gold on hand as
guarantee.
__________________
Condo VVIP Price http://www.condossingapore.com
Luxurious Goods http://www.facebook.com/bagsberry
s4ndid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:42 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 757
This has been explained so many times... You are buying a piece of gold that is 25 to 30 percent above market price! So right from the start you lose 30 percent. And then you have to slowly slowly wait for them to give you back the percent while hoping that gold price goes up so the company don't disappear.

People get so happy they are getting that 2 percent per month they forgot or ignore they actually give the company 30 percent in the first place...
FP_IFA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 544
Quick question. What is the 'weight' or 'amount' of the gold you bought, and what price did they sell it to you two months ago?

Did they say they sell it to you at 'fair market price'?

My first concern is they sold gold to you at much higher than 'true market price'.

Its a pozi scheme, i think u are here to find out why this is actually considered a ponzi scheme...
__________________
Blog: Singapore Permanent Portfolio - passive investing
Lower volatility strategy, no market timing
Epps_Sg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:49 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,464
ask GIC to invest... 24% per year is super good return. or get this company listed. 24 % div more power than Starhub, Singtel or any other REITs...
xp20046 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:21 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
s4ndid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,578
bro Epps_Sg , bought gold price at 94/gr and today 95/gr.

during my consideration, i tot i got the little money cant do much of anything also, so thinking this will be my way of fixed deposit lar i guess.

i know the price is 20-30-% more then current traded gold price, however, i'm not looking to trade it. i'm just looking for the 2%
__________________
Condo VVIP Price http://www.condossingapore.com
Luxurious Goods http://www.facebook.com/bagsberry
s4ndid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:43 PM   #6
Master Member
 
autumm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,546
How easy do u think it is to liquidate your gold outside? For sure it's not gonna be at gold spot prices outside if u have to sell it to a pawnshop
autumm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
s4ndid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,578
yeah man, i tested bring down to pawn shop .they accept the gold with 25% lower then the price i paid TGG.

cause i'm newbie i ask, uncle is my gold is real? . the uncle laugh so loud and say: if yours is fake then all in this display also then i'm rest assured aldy.

ultimately, i just wanna receive the interest like FixD does. so i just dont bother to monitor gold pricing and pawning it away. but i guess that my risk appetite level.
__________________
Condo VVIP Price http://www.condossingapore.com
Luxurious Goods http://www.facebook.com/bagsberry
s4ndid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #8
Master Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,417
OK, I'm going to explain why this is a bad investment.

Firstly, the pawnshop's price is very close to the "real" price of gold - which is about $66 a gram today. Genneva and Gold Guarantee and all these sh!tty companies mark up their gold by about 30%.

So you've just paid $94/gram for something that's only worth about $65/gram.

If all you want is the gold, go to UOB - they'll sell you all the gold you can carry, and they'll sell it for a lot less than $94 a gram.

Secondly: this company is not strictly a Ponzi, but their business model is unsustainable and they will collapse eventually.

How do I know this? Because what they're doing - giving you a 1.5% return every month - amounts to borrowing money from you at 20% p.a., and there's no way they can keep making enough money to reliably repay that 20%-per-annum loan they're taking from you.

The company only stays afloat as long as they can keep selling overpriced gold to gullible fuškwits (present company excluded, of course).

Thirdly: OK, so let's assume the company stays upright. Even then, you're still $29/gram in the hole on this gold. That'll take you nearly a year-and-a-half to make back - so if TGG is still upright and hasn't been raided by the feds in a year and a half (which I reckon is unlikely), you'll still only be back to where you started!

--------

So while TGG isn't strictly a Ponzi (and neither was Genneva), it's still an unsustainable (and possibly illegal) business model that immediately puts you 18 months in the hole as soon as you invest. Don't get involved in it.
ykeen, lzydata, Epps_Sg and 2 others like this.

Last edited by Shiny Things; 10-12-2012 at 01:56 PM..
Shiny Things is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:59 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 544
actual spot gold price is S$67/gm now. so you are paying S$95/gm which is 41% extra, then getting your own money back 2% every month... your total wealth never changes for 20 months! Getting your own money back and not increasing your wealth, this is not called investing.

Also, don't just see this thing your way. If you think this is some kind of 'low risk' deposit scheme and your pawn shop idea can save you... read through the genneva thread and read the victims 'second' opinions also, then you think again. You are here for second opinions isnt it?

Did they 'lied' to you about the fair 'market price' of the gold? If so that should be a warning sign you are putting money with people whose integrity is in doubt, so do you seriously think your 'investment' is safe with them.. Because they can say one thing on paper, then do another thing in reality...


These schemes prey on people who are not financially savvy.
__________________
Blog: Singapore Permanent Portfolio - passive investing
Lower volatility strategy, no market timing

Last edited by Epps_Sg; 10-12-2012 at 02:14 PM..
Epps_Sg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 03:04 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
s4ndid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,578
honestly, thanks for all the input and second opinion.

__________________
Condo VVIP Price http://www.condossingapore.com
Luxurious Goods http://www.facebook.com/bagsberry
s4ndid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 05:35 PM   #11
Supremacy Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,436
One thing to add is the TGG is in MAS investor alert list. Always look at the market rate of gold from website like kitco and not some website the salesperson is making a comparison with to show you it is a "fair" market price. Always look at spot price not what the price someone is selling you and make informed decisions on your purchase.
makav31i is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 02:17 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 338
bro Epps_Sg , bought gold price at 94/gr and today 95/gr.

during my consideration, i tot i got the little money cant do much of anything also, so thinking this will be my way of fixed deposit lar i guess.

i know the price is 20-30-% more then current traded gold price, however, i'm not looking to trade it. i'm just looking for the 2%
Seriously u r not making any money sense to earn the small interest risking a much larger sum of money, it's a very big risk u r taking! Despite all the news about Geneva and u still bought it, it shows u have not done your homework properly.

U thought u r taking a small risk by buying gold packaged like a fixD without any monitoring, but the fact is u r taking a much bigger risk than everything else, even greater risk than u go casino!
bloodsucker and boisonbeauty like this.
Futureskid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Don't be conned by these Gold Investment Companies

Hi all,

Good advice from all the forum users here.

Just to add in my humble opinion here.

The business model for the Gold Guarantee/Geneva will not sustain. To survive, it must either i) generate > 24% profit in its gold trading or ii) entice more gullible investors to invest to maintain the cashflow liquidity (use to payback the earlier investors).

For i), the profit that need to be generate is in actual fact need to be much much much more than 24% because of the high commission it pay to the agents.
Even in treasury markets, for a commodity trader to generate such returns is not easy. Moreover, their gold investment can go wrong (e.g. betting on the wrong direction of the market swing) and there is a very big risk.

Therefore, in order to survive, in reality the company is relying on point ii), meaning the later streams of investors to pay off the earlier stream of investors.

Gold Gurantee/Geneva/Asia Pacific Bullion is already in the MAS alert list and if you do the research, they have the same owner.

Just to note, recently there is a Diamond Guarantee Company setup, which is a spinoff from Gold Guarantee. Is the same ploy all over again. Due to the recent negative publicity for Gold Guarantee, most likely it run into problem getting enough cashflow to payback the investors and thus the company come up with this Diamond Guarantee company (which is not under MAS radar yet).

Don't part with you hard earned money into all these scams.
The scam will work for some time until there come a stage where there is not enough cashflow generated for payback. We don't know when the company will collapse but the critical point is one year after, when all the investors starts to ask for the principle back and at this stage, the company will ask you to reinvest your money and ask you to put in more, making you sink deeper.



Rgds,
Boisonbeauty
MagnumWalls likes this.
boisonbeauty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2012, 02:02 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 103
s4ndid, bro to bro, I'm highly highly highly encouraging you to pull out asap. And I'm very sure all the other bros here are of the same view. We just don't want you to be another victim.

Sell the gold back to the company as soon as they allow it becos u never know when they are gonna collapse. You are catching a falling knife, and the risk is far too high that you are gonna lose everything. You have collected 2 mths of payments, good for you. That is already decent returns, so please please please don't be greedy and pull out now. Becos honestly if you end up losing all your money, don't come complaining to this forum and saying you've been scammed or whatnot.

This is exactly the same as Genneva, so I dno why you can think otherwise. It IS a ponzi scheme. Even IF it has a credit card operation arm, the returns are 24% per year. How it can give back all its returns without earning a single dollar, and in fact be underwater because of commissions, is totally beyond me. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE!!!! Heck, the only way they can do this is if they are running a loan-shark op. And if they are, heck bro you better not be affliated with it.

There is absolutely ZERO upside to this investment. Please take all our advices and pull out. Go invest in bonds, reits, whatever. Returns are decent enough for you to combat inflation and give you a steady income in the future.
MagnumWalls likes this.
bloodsucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2012, 09:27 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
This is another simple Ponzi preying on investors lack of knowledge in gold investment.

Get out of it now asap. Sooner than later they will collapse and take your money with you.

You have overpaid for the gold in hand by 40%. Period.

Its like someone stole your wallet, but only take 40% of its content. Is it then not a theft?

Wise up and if you really want to invest in gold, you can learn it on goldclubasia dot com

Its a free forum for all. the largest of its kind in SG. I am the original founder.

Now i am focused on Gold Coast Properties. Just sold all of my SG properties.

if you have any SG properties, get out now. next 5 years will be painful to watch.

You can follow my properties writings on

thanks and wish you good luck with gold.

Last edited by Yellowfin; 17-12-2012 at 05:36 PM..
100percentinvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On