Insurance Buyer Remorse, help appreciated

akmori

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
584
Reaction score
18
yeah sorry, was reading all the post while replying individually.. took me quite some time to finish reading the thread. :s13:

You can still go with GE with the same rep or another rep, a new rep wouldn't guarantee better service after all. Unfortunately there isn't any GE agent on HWZ to choose from.

Apart from understanding the respective plans, do spend some time to get to know the agent too. Good agents are hard to find, so do spend some time looking around and understanding them. Also, avoid meeting agents from roadshows, schedule another private meeting seperately.
Haha no problem. I saw some of your posts in other threads which was quite useful as well. My current agent is my friend's agent. Unfortunately, hard to source for a good one, will try to take note.

Sent from the Wheel using GAGT
 

soneat

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2000
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
317
There is also some conditions on these type of policies I think. Some of the things may not be guaranteed, e.g. cash value or sum assured may be lower if the fund not doing good.

WL and ILP I think is based on same concept but just one invests in low risk and more stable return. Another invests in high risk and volatile return.

One thing about ILP is I think your cash value has possibility becomes zero if you stop paying premium very early while the fund is making losses.

Yes whole life policy also has its problems but once the policy is fully paid up, it will not lapse. Insurer's ethics is very important. Some insurer chop bonus like nobody's business while others might reduce slightly. One particular insurer in fact has a higher current benefit illustration than initial. Even the lousiest of my whole life policy (yes that AIA one which got chopped many times) has a cash value of about 3.5% compounded. So while the main intention for the whole life policy is for whole life protection, its secondary benefit is that it is acting like an emergency cash account yielding at 3+%.
 
Last edited:

Maeda_Toshiie

Supremacy Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
6,311
Reaction score
3
Actually from my many years (decades) of buying insurance, there are both decent and lemon products from each insurer. Buyers need to spend time and effort to truly understand what one is buying and also the exact wordings in the policy contract. Even if one has a good agent, the agent may not be there years down the road. So always learn to deal with the company directly.

Unfortunately, most people don't read what they bought.

The policy documents are thick stacks of legalese. Few people have time to read them in detail. Likewise, few people know which parts to zoom into for key details.
 

Bigoya

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
2,197
Reaction score
0
Actually from my many years (decades) of buying insurance, there are both decent and lemon products from each insurer. Buyers need to spend time and effort to truly understand what one is buying and also the exact wordings in the policy contract. Even if one has a good agent, the agent may not be there years down the road. So always learn to deal with the company directly.

Unfortunately, most people don't read what they bought.

Why do you keep buying insurance?

Anyway, for an inexperienced consumer to read the policy wordings, many would have no idea what the terms meant or what the figures represent.

For the more savvy ones, they would be able to identify. However, they would only know what they know. But they don't know what they don't know (i.e. things which are not stated on the booklet), for example, a certain benefit that insurer A, B and C has but insurer D doesn't and yet all of them charges a similar premium. If you knew what's missing, you'd have avoided insurer D.
It might still take a good agent to pick out such information for you.

And by a good agent, ideally he should be one who would compare for you different plans which serves the same purpose (e.g. Term, WL, ILP(?)) so that you have the perfect understanding of what might suit yourself more, instead of letting him lead you around in his sales pitch. Also, preferably, to hi-light the pros and cons of the similar plans across insurers. But the latter would not do him any good as he could potentially loose a sale if his company's plan isn't the best. But depending on circumstance, such agents might still rescue you from a bad purchase.

Finally, while a good agent may not be around you for a long time, at least you knew your first few years with him/her, you've been in good hands and the plans you've gotten are legit good. Rather than being stuck with a lousy salesman for life, even worst if you are not savvy yourself and give him so much trust, you buy whatever he sell.
 

soneat

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2000
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
317
Why do you keep buying insurance?

Anyway, for an inexperienced consumer to read the policy wordings, many would have no idea what the terms meant or what the figures represent.

For the more savvy ones, they would be able to identify. However, they would only know what they know. But they don't know what they don't know (i.e. things which are not stated on the booklet), for example, a certain benefit that insurer A, B and C has but insurer D doesn't and yet all of them charges a similar premium. If you knew what's missing, you'd have avoided insurer D.
It might still take a good agent to pick out such information for you.

And by a good agent, ideally he should be one who would compare for you different plans which serves the same purpose (e.g. Term, WL, ILP(?)) so that you have the perfect understanding of what might suit yourself more, instead of letting him lead you around in his sales pitch. Also, preferably, to hi-light the pros and cons of the similar plans across insurers. But the latter would not do him any good as he could potentially loose a sale if his company's plan isn't the best. But depending on circumstance, such agents might still rescue you from a bad purchase.

Finally, while a good agent may not be around you for a long time, at least you knew your first few years with him/her, you've been in good hands and the plans you've gotten are legit good. Rather than being stuck with a lousy salesman for life, even worst if you are not savvy yourself and give him so much trust, you buy whatever he sell.
I am always in touch of the latest developments... not that I buy every year or so. A number of the policies r for kids too. I like to diversify across multiple insurers so I did rather extensive comparisons.

Personally, a good agent is a nice to have 'feature' but will have no influence on whether I take up a plan or not. The decision will be based on the cover (product feature), the premium, policy wordings, company ethics.
 
Last edited:

soneat

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2000
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
317
The policy documents are thick stacks of legalese. Few people have time to read them in detail. Likewise, few people know which parts to zoom into for key details.
Yes not easy to read but if one wants to do it properly, one should make effort to read it. By right the agent should explain line by line in detail but I suspect few does it.
 

akwl88

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
10,696
Reaction score
1
If depending on wl for investment, one shd demand 4% and above guranteed returns as essentially you are paying other pple to help u invest ur money

U wouldnt spend money to hire lousy pple to assist you, would you?
 

maruikun

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
78
Reaction score
1
ILPs and ULs mortality charges are somewhat lower than traditional whole life policies. However, they are based on the assumption that the underlying investment (UT for ILP, Crediting Rate for UL) can earn sufficient to pay for the cost of protection. The fact is at older age, the cost of protection increases exponentially and the policies have a high chance of getting lapse.

This is the important part which I believe agents will probably not highlight to consumers. Consumers are mislead into thinking that their ILP investment over the long-term will cover for their mortality charges at old age which is not true. We are aware of the exorbitant fees that ILP charges and taking 15-20 years for the ILP to breakeven is already a poor investment not to mention the pathetic coverage it provides.

I am a victim of this product and realize the hard truth after many years. In the first place, ILP should not be sold to consumers who wanted investment. There are agents here who discourage on buying ILP and these agents deserve my respect.
 

soneat

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2000
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
317
This is the important part which I believe agents will probably not highlight to consumers. Consumers are mislead into thinking that their ILP investment over the long-term will cover for their mortality charges at old age which is not true. We are aware of the exorbitant fees that ILP charges and taking 15-20 years for the ILP to breakeven is already a poor investment not to mention the pathetic coverage it provides.

I am a victim of this product and realize the hard truth after many years. In the first place, ILP should not be sold to consumers who wanted investment. There are agents here who discourage on buying ILP and these agents deserve my respect.

There are very few ethical agents (we have seen some in this forum) and there are even fewer competent ones.
 

dendii

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
628
Reaction score
0
I think thats a totally wrong concept to depend on whole life for investment. In the first place, it was not meant to do that.

Having it as part of financial planning portfolio can be good, depending on circumstances as well. But to depend solely on it, definitely not a good idea.

If depending on wl for investment, one shd demand 4% and above guranteed returns as essentially you are paying other pple to help u invest ur money

U wouldnt spend money to hire lousy pple to assist you, would you?
 

akwl88

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
10,696
Reaction score
1
I think thats a totally wrong concept to depend on whole life for investment. In the first place, it was not meant to do that.

Having it as part of financial planning portfolio can be good, depending on circumstances as well. But to depend solely on it, definitely not a good idea.

Unfortunately, lots of agents use fear mongering as an excuse - stock mkt crash lah, diy losses ah etc

I see no use for a wl plan. It doesnt fit in as a good investment vehicle nor provide sufficient coverage for afforadable premiums like term

Wl, ilps and endowments are useless products
 

deepblueli

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
591
Reaction score
7
Unfortunately, lots of agents use fear mongering as an excuse - stock mkt crash lah, diy losses ah etc

I see no use for a wl plan. It doesnt fit in as a good investment vehicle nor provide sufficient coverage for afforadable premiums like term

Wl, ilps and endowments are useless products

IMO, wholelife and term, the different is mainly on length of coverage and the number of years you need to pay the premium.
 

dendii

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
628
Reaction score
0
Dependents can mean parents, siblings, children, spouse. (Loved ones essentially)

Life insurance will be meant for them.

But CI insurance will be for yourself. More so if you are alone I think because you will likely need additional help.

So regardless, you still need insurance whether you have dependents or not.

However, one can argue that if I get CI with no dependents I can just die and save the trouble. What one is forgetting is it may not be so simple because you may not necessarily die from the CI.

There is no need for insurance if you do not have any dependents.
 

akwl88

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
10,696
Reaction score
1
Dependents can mean parents, siblings, children, spouse. (Loved ones essentially)

Life insurance will be meant for them.

But CI insurance will be for yourself. More so if you are alone I think because you will likely need additional help.

So regardless, you still need insurance whether you have dependents or not.

However, one can argue that if I get CI with no dependents I can just die and save the trouble. What one is forgetting is it may not be so simple because you may not necessarily die from the CI.

In the period when u no need any insurance, you will fall back on your investment funds, savings, cpf etc compounded over the years with savings from things like unnecessary premiums from irrevlevant plans.

Note the cost of premiums as u get older and not having any income.
 

dendii

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
628
Reaction score
0
That is given that you had done so and planned for it already, and not a case of no dependents no need insurance.

Because you are already "self insured" by then and just need the very basics.

In the period when u no need any insurance, you will fall back on your investment funds, savings, cpf etc compounded over the years with savings from things like unnecessary premiums from irrevlevant plans.

Note the cost of premiums as u get older and not having any income.
 

deepblueli

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
591
Reaction score
7
In the period when u no need any insurance, you will fall back on your investment funds, savings, cpf etc compounded over the years with savings from things like unnecessary premiums from irrevlevant plans.

Note the cost of premiums as u get older and not having any income.

Ya, thus I strongly believe you shouldn't need to pay premium after retire.
Terms may stretch that a bit if you cover until 65 or 70 years old, but since the premium is low so it's ok.
Limited pay wholelife should be all finished premium payment before you turn 60.

If you are discipline enough in saving and investment. Then, you can use terms insurance to cover the period you need the insurance. But guess not everyone can be the same.
There are also a lot of temptations, or even necessary to use the money that you can touch or withdraw.
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top