MoolahSense investing Thread

cubana

Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
9,906
Reaction score
568
It's common.

When u buy a hdb or house.
After 2 years u refinance the loan. Borrow new money to pay earlier loan.
u have 5 million. Suppose to know this practice. :s13:
Unless u from edmw.

I'm from edmw, but I know my finance.

Home loan refinance is based on the decreased original loan amount. U r not increasing your total loan amt.

Moolahsense supports loans to grow bigger by borrowing more to repay the original debt = greater n greater loans owed.

Maybe u shld learn some things from edmw
 

WC32890

Supremacy Member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
9,880
Reaction score
4
yes i think its fair. your analogy is flawed. are u a MoolahSense investor?

I am an early investor into MoolahSense and went into multiple loans with them. I am lucky that only 2 loans went into trouble, of which 1 paid off 1 or 2 months past maturity date. The other one, PWGS, is a more complicated situation but its abt $400+ due only. To me its pocket change, i can well afford it. But it is the loan handling from MoolahSense that has displeased me greatly.

So drawing on my experience with them, i think i am in an apt position to comment.

Early stage, MoolahSense was great...they were open and transparent, willing to listen to feedback. However, when volumes grew and loans started getting oversubscribed within 2minutes. They grew complacent and cocky. In the past, when lenders wanted to borrow money, investors were invited to a presentation and they are allowed to questioned the borrower. That was later dropped. MoolahSense used to have an online forum but that was taken down after alot of users gave them flak. In a bid to get more business to fill the demand from investors, their credit team grew lax and allowed in many companies whom were not credit worthy. I do understand that these SMEs are already not the prime credit worthy borrowers but there's a difference those types and those that you can tell from their cashflow generation that from the first month of the loan, they will struggle to repay. Their staff used to be friendly and open to queries, now when u email them for updates, they will say 'pls wait for our biweekly update', which usually is just generic copy n paste updates.

MoolahSense told investors that if the borrowers default, they will help to chase down the debt. These would be either getting debt collectors in or legal means to sue for the debt. I could elaborate in detail but in summary they didnt do enough and debt recovery is sorely lacking.

DBS is just an intermediary whereas MoolahSense promised to be more than an intermediary. They are different.

Here are my thoughts

1. Moolahsense will not care if your loans got into trouble. Why should they? They are merely middleman who take a cut of commission with no skin in the game. Their business is risk free. If you lose money, too bad for you. They will cite that fair warning has been given.

2. Because of point 1, neither their "senior" management, credit people or owners/CEO cares. All they care about is how to grow the business and scale it large enough to sell it or list it and cash out to make profits for themselves.

3. They don't have good, experienced, empowered credit people. I mean Banks spend a fourtune to hire good, experienced credit people to look after their credit risk. But Moolahsense does not have financial strength to pay for experienced credit people and do not care to pay for experienced credit people simply because of point 1. In addition no experienced credit people from banks worth their salt will want to join a start-up like Moolahsense anyway.

4. The loan market in SG is small and saturated with banks already covering most of the credit worthy clients and non bank FI covering the so-so credit worth clients leaving the not so credit worthy clients no choice but to pay 8-15% interest on loans. I mean that's like marginally better than borrowing from loanshark type of interest rates. Why would any company do that unless they are desperate? And because the owners want to scale up they will just on-board clients. They have no choice
 

epiphany01

Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
264
Reaction score
0
Here are my thoughts

1. Moolahsense will not care if your loans got into trouble. Why should they? They are merely middleman who take a cut of commission with no skin in the game. Their business is risk free. If you lose money, too bad for you. They will cite that fair warning has been given.

Hi WC32890,

Thanks for your note. I agree with you, however my gripe here is that MoolahSense did not represent it that way. If they were upfront abt debt collection will be minimal on their end. FINE. DYODD. but they didn't do so. Maybe I read misunderstood wrongly on their FAQ pages but they represented during the investors sessions in this way as well.

MoolahSense's principal role is to:-
  1. Perform introductory functions on behalf of prospective issuers and investors for the issuance of notes
  2. Provide a streamlined process for the issuance of notes (including the development of standard contract Note)
  3. Facilitate the payments and collection of sums due under or in connection with those Notes (including taking certain actions on behalf of investors upon an issuer's default or if the issuer becomes, or is likely to become, insolvent).
MoolahSense is not be a party to any Note, save for third party rights granted under such Agreement


They failed to do 3.

MoolahSense will manage late repayments with a 3-stage process.
Stage 1: If the issuer misses, fails to pay or only partially pays the repayment on any due date, MoolahSense will activate procedures to email, SMS or call the issuer. Every action and feedback (or lack thereof) obtained from the issuer will be recorded on the platform and communicated to all affected investors.
Stage 2: If the issuer fails to remedy the missed/late/partial repayment after 30 days, MoolahSense may activate the debt collection services of 3rd party professional debt collectors to collect the money on the investors' behalf. We currently partner with Datapool (S) Pte Ltd. Datapool is Singapore’s leading collections and account receivables management agency with 34 years of track record in recovering corporate and consumer debts.
Stage 3: If the missed/late/partially paid repayment remains not remedied after 90 days from the onset of the first due date, MoolahSense may categorize the issuer as in "default". This means that the note will be terminated and the outstanding balance (including interest till the end of the original term, late payment fee, late payment interest) will become immediately due and payable. MoolahSense will then seek out solutions and present cost-benefit analysis to the affected investors. Affected investors will be invited to vote to obtain a quorum to proceed on the next course of action, which may include authorizing MoolahSense to pursue their collective interests at their own costs. MoolahSense shall also report such default in payment to the credit bureaus which will have a detrimental mark on the credit standing of the issuer.


Stage 1: failed. updates are never timely. and many investors had to chase them or in my case, I chased the borrower directly, giving them a few threats of my own.
Stage 2: failed. debt collectors is their last resort which by then is too late. they rather "give chance" to the borrowers by restructuring the loans, often without qualified majority consent of the investors. as a result borrowers took advantage of them.
Stage 3: Most (90% or more) of their loans are not classed as "default", in some cases loans which are >1 year due. They call it "stressed". Again they love to restructure loans rather than play hardball with the borrowers.

2. Because of point 1, neither their "senior" management, credit people or owners/CEO cares. All they care about is how to grow the business and scale it large enough to sell it or list it and cash out to make profits for themselves.

Agree. I think choosing a platform is very important. The sponsors behind them, the owners etc have to have credibility. Admittedly, I was wrong about them. I attended the initial investors sessions and various borrower roadshows. And to be fair to them, MoolahSense started off great. They were transparent, fast to implement suggestions, responsive and receptive to queries (I know as I drove a very hard line of questioning on their borrowers before each investment i made). Loans done were repaid promptly.

But things went downhill. Some key people left. Investor volumes grew (loans were filled within 2 minutes of launch!). they removed investor meet ups with borrowers. Implemented auto funding (imagine someone auto allocating your monies into risky loans). mgmt of NPLs went good at first but then went to bad and then to worst. Custy service became rude. NPLs grew.

I realised that things were bad, so i made an early decision to get out. Thankfully i did so and escaped the bulk of the damage. Its not like Moolahsense started out shite. they WERE good.

In contrast, look at Pavel from Capital Match and i quote him from his email from one year ago:

Thanks to your support, Capital Match has grown strong and became a leader in marketplace lending/invoice financing in Singapore. We have attracted substantial venture capital funding, we are growing and diversifying operations and revenue sources, and are on a path to profitability. As a VC-funded company, there could be an exit in the future - either through an acquisition or a listing on stock market. In my personal capacity (not as a representative or director of Capital Match), if Capital Match is successfully acquired or lists on stock market in the future, I will refund to you from my personal proceeds from the sale of shares in such a transaction an amount of up to 30% (if such proceeds are sufficient to do so) of the principal you may have lost as an investor on unsecured loans / promissory notes processed through Capital Match platform from February 2015 to June 2016.


3. They don't have good, experienced, empowered credit people. I mean Banks spend a fourtune to hire good, experienced credit people to look after their credit risk. But Moolahsense does not have financial strength to pay for experienced credit people and do not care to pay for experienced credit people simply because of point 1. In addition no experienced credit people from banks worth their salt will want to join a start-up like Moolahsense anyway.

Lawrence CEO is a seasoned banker. He was a buyside and sell side banker, worked thru PB setups and worked thru IB houses. ex DCM banker. he knows credit. Wei Tuck the ex-COO is another seasoned banker. Barbara the main credit analyst also another ex bank credit analyst. I think things really went downhill after Wei Tuck and Barbara left. I duno who are the new folks who came in but from the profile of the firms listed on MS these days, these new fellas SUCK.

4. The loan market in SG is small and saturated with banks already covering most of the credit worthy clients and non bank FI covering the so-so credit worth clients leaving the not so credit worthy clients no choice but to pay 8-15% interest on loans. I mean that's like marginally better than borrowing from loanshark type of interest rates. Why would any company do that unless they are desperate? And because the owners want to scale up they will just on-board clients. They have no choice

Agree. like how I questioned why Epicentre wanted to raise thru MoolahSense. They are after all a listco. They couldn't give me a satisfactory answer (red flag). Quite a lot of the clients were not "unbankable" and had bank loans existing. just that the banks were charging them similar rates vs MS too bur takes a few weeks to process. whereas execution via MS is faster (hey 2 mins filled man!)

anyway, my exposure is small. I got out early, currently stuck on 1 loan with abt $400+ due. Its pocket change to me, just a few hours of my pay. i can write it off easy which i am happy to as I entered into this eyes open, mentally prepped for a default. but I'm not letting this slide simply because of how MoolahSense has mishandled my and many other people's loans.

pls pardon my long reply.
 

danielnkl

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Hi, I invested into PWGS and have failed repayment. Moolahsense is not responsive in handling with this. Hence calling for any PWGS investors, if you guys are interested, let’s do a meet up to discuss the next course of action. If needed, we can share the legal cost. Cheers. Pm me (danielnkl@yahoo.com.sg).
 

ericpro96

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Hi, I invested into PWGS and have failed repayment. Moolahsense is not responsive in handling with this. Hence calling for any PWGS investors, if you guys are interested, let’s do a meet up to discuss the next course of action. If needed, we can share the legal cost. Cheers. Pm me (danielnkl@yahoo.com.sg).

Pwgs refer to the printing service company?
 

mrwirus

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
1,868
Reaction score
13
I've invested in 3 and 2 of them are stressed and Moolahsense dun even care. I tried emailing them and got no replies. And when I call them many times, they finally picked it up and when I asked about the stressed campaigns, in particular, Rupini's, they hung my phone up, and I couldn't get back to them since.

I got a lot of money stuck inside.. Hopefully I can get some of the money back and exit this shitty company soon.
 

Supersian

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
1,775
Reaction score
1
I've invested in 3 and 2 of them are stressed and Moolahsense dun even care. I tried emailing them and got no replies. And when I call them many times, they finally picked it up and when I asked about the stressed campaigns, in particular, Rupini's, they hung my phone up, and I couldn't get back to them since.

I got a lot of money stuck inside.. Hopefully I can get some of the money back and exit this shitty company soon.

you might want to visit here for latest updates on rupenis. http://forum.letscrowdsmarter.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93&start=40 and
http://sgtalk.org/mybb/Thread-Aggre...-rod-and-spews-racial-slurs-at-tenants?page=4 , point 9
 
Last edited:

Supersian

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
1,775
Reaction score
1
eventhough i have did not invest in rupinis but i think we p2p investors need to be aware of this case.
 

Supersian

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
1,775
Reaction score
1
Never thought P2P lending is trustworthy.

the risk of default is there , just like credit cards, which carries the risk of ppl defaulting. if ppl can easily borrow money and escape, the loan business wont exist. i can just set up some small business and borrow from p2p delay payment to increase cashflow.
 

beefjerky

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
1,055
Reaction score
11
I read that mooolahsense has a default rate of about 1+ % let's round off to two to be conservative. If I invest in 100 project they have that has a 10% yield at least with $100 each,would it be fair to say I need 10% of the companies to default before I start to lose money?
 

wira

Supremacy Member
Joined
May 6, 2000
Messages
5,406
Reaction score
642
Moolahsense is giving the P2P lending industry a bad name.
They used to be good. I invest ed few loans with them including Epicentre and never lost money.
 

Eternit

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
2,179
Reaction score
205
Guys,

I just realized I cant transfer out funds! The Transfer Out Funds button under my wallet is unclickable, got $900+ stuck inside...
 

limyt95

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Guys,

I just realized I cant transfer out funds! The Transfer Out Funds button under my wallet is unclickable, got $900+ stuck inside...

I have $100 in my wallet, and the button is clickable for me on mobile. Try using the mobile site?

Also, for those who encountered companies with defaults, were they all 1st time issuers?
 

Eternit

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
2,179
Reaction score
205
I have $100 in my wallet, and the button is clickable for me on mobile. Try using the mobile site?

Also, for those who encountered companies with defaults, were they all 1st time issuers?

Tried still can't, no response when pressing that button.

Then now their hotline become answering machine!

Damn, about to run road?
 

wonghw12

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
MoolahSense real default rate = 50%?

The transfer out funds button is working for me. Perhaps use another browser or email them?


Anyway, seeking data from guys who have invested. Currently, I am looking at 50% default rate on MoolahSense (as opposed to 4% advertised by them) - is this consistent with you guys? I have invested in 60 loans. So far, 7 fully paid and 7 defaulted, which puts the tally at 50% default rate. For the remaining 46 loans, 10 are 45 or more days past due and another 4 are past due by less than 45 days.
 

ceciltan

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
0
The transfer out funds button is working for me. Perhaps use another browser or email them?


Anyway, seeking data from guys who have invested. Currently, I am looking at 50% default rate on MoolahSense (as opposed to 4% advertised by them) - is this consistent with you guys? I have invested in 60 loans. So far, 7 fully paid and 7 defaulted, which puts the tally at 50% default rate. For the remaining 46 loans, 10 are 45 or more days past due and another 4 are past due by less than 45 days.
Mine 66% default rate. Got 4, 2 default, 1 complete, 1 ongoing.
 

limyt95

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
For the companies with defaulted campaigns, are they repeated issuers? I was curious if they were first time issuers with no track records, since defaults seem so common.
 

Supersian

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
1,775
Reaction score
1
By default means past 1 year already? I started investing around 8 months ago when the min amount was 1k and it shows how many people invested and their amount. There was 1 campaign with strong numbers, and there was 1 invested 12k into it, and couple of 5k. Until now, only the first repayment is paid. Lol. Now I'm waiting to exit and consider invest again in small amounts , depending on how they tackle the defaults.
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top