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Old 14-09-2017, 11:09 AM   #16
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What's a good disability plan you can recommend?
Well, there are four that I know about available in Singapore, and they typically cover until age 65. (Past that you would hopefully have retirement savings and annuities, medical insurance, and/or long-term care insurance, as applicable.) Three carriers in Singapore offer disability income insurance policies: Great Eastern ("Pay Assure"), Aviva ("IdealIncome"), and AIA ("Premier Disability Cover"). A fourth option, Clements International's disability income insurance, is available nearly worldwide (including to residents of Singapore), and they sell coverage from Lloyds of London. The Clements product is substantially different in its details from the three Singapore carrier options, and (as always) you have to read the fine print. But it's an interesting option for some.

But accident insurance need another hurdle - need to be accident + accident cause disability. So like no point buy both?
Yes, that's my point. The primary risk you're trying to defend against is disability -- the inability to work and to earn an income, plus the requirement for medical and other care. But "personal accident insurance" only pays benefits if the cause of your disability is on the policy list. It pays nothing if, for example, you suffer a stroke and cannot work. This makes no sense to me. What difference does it make how you became disabled? You cannot work, and you have the same needs.

OK, the argument is, "Well, personal accident insurance is cheaper, and it's better than nothing." Well, of course it should be cheaper! It doesn't pay very often. Accidents aren't common causes of disability -- not in Singapore anyway. "Mundane" causes, like stroke and dementia, are statistically more common.

Let's suppose you're trying to obtain a monthly payout of $3,500, and you compare personal accident insurance with disability income insurance. The latter will be more expensive, of course. It should be -- it's providing much better protection. And let's further suppose you cannot afford $3,500/month quality disability income insurance. OK, so does that mean you should buy the cheaper insurance that usually won't pay anything if you were to become disabled? I would argue no, probably not. The better option, in my view, is to buy $2,000/month of disability income insurance coverage, for example. That's not as much as you would like perhaps, but at least you get something if you suffer a stroke and cannot work. And that's how you can reduce the premium. You're still insured less than you would like, but this is a better way (if you must) to reduce your premium. It defends you better than being unable to work and receiving zero, simply because you happened to suffer a stroke (as one example).

Private insurance companies are always looking for ways to collect more premium dollars from you and pay nothing back. That's how they maximize profits. One of the very basic ways they do this is to write policy terms, like personal accident insurance policies, that tug on your heartstrings but (in fact) pay absolutely nothing for the most common causes of disability. Most people want to be protected no matter what the risks -- that's the ideal. They don't want to gamble at the casino. The more policy exclusions there are, the more casino-like your insurance policy is. And if an "insurance" policy isn't even defending against the most common risks, then, I would argue, we shouldn't even call it "insurance." We should call it something like, like a gimmick or a bad joke.
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Old 18-09-2017, 10:22 AM   #17
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Which do you value more? The permanent disability and death coverage or the minor expenses?

Maybe you can consider GE's new Great Protector also. In terms of comprehensiveness, Essential Protector Plus might be better but GP shines in the permanent disability payout which goes up to $3m.
sorry for the late reply, was on business trip.

The permanent disability is a good to have thing, as far as i am concern, I do not wish to have a permanent disability. Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.
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Old 18-09-2017, 11:32 AM   #18
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Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.
So if you have a stroke (for example), then you don't want insurance to cover your medical costs?

Do doctors, hospitals, clinics, rehabilitation centers, pharmaceutical companies, nursing homes, and other medical providers charge less when the ailment is not the consequence of an "accident," as the insurance company defines the term?

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Old 19-09-2017, 11:20 AM   #19
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Well, there are four that I know about available in Singapore, and they typically cover until age 65. (Past that you would hopefully have retirement savings and annuities, medical insurance, and/or long-term care insurance, as applicable.) Three carriers in Singapore offer disability income insurance policies: Great Eastern ("Pay Assure"), Aviva ("IdealIncome"), and AIA ("Premier Disability Cover"). A fourth option, Clements International's disability income insurance, is available nearly worldwide (including to residents of Singapore), and they sell coverage from Lloyds of London. The Clements product is substantially different in its details from the three Singapore carrier options, and (as always) you have to read the fine print. But it's an interesting option for some.

Good point about disability income. Hey bro, how about then enhancing our ElderShield compared to buying a disability policy?
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Old 19-09-2017, 12:38 PM   #20
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sorry for the late reply, was on business trip.

The permanent disability is a good to have thing, as far as i am concern, I do not wish to have a permanent disability. Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.
That kind of minor mishap won't bankrupt you. Why not just self-insure and stash away a pot of money that can cover any unexpected expenses that might crop up in your life (and not just those from accidents)?
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Old 19-09-2017, 03:16 PM   #21
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Hey bro, how about then enhancing our ElderShield compared to buying a disability policy?
ElderShield has some limitations. A major one is that the minimum entry age is 40. Also, the definition of "disability" is more narrow ("3 out of 6") than the definition in a typical disability income insurance policy. And ElderShield's maximum purchasable monthly benefit is rather low. There's also no inflation adjustment option for payouts. There's one advantage: if you pay premiums until age 65, you're covered for life. It's essentially long-term care (LTC) insurance.

The government is interested in improving ElderShield and is currently, as I write this, soliciting public comments.

Why not just self-insure and stash away a pot of money that can cover any unexpected expenses that might crop up in your life (and not just those from accidents)?
That's a great idea conceptually, but there really are risks that are difficult or impossible to self-insure against, especially if you're younger.
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Old 19-09-2017, 04:31 PM   #22
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I don't think anybody would wish for permanent disability. Personal accident plans definitely still offer medical reimbursement for minor accidents that don't require you to be admitted.

With that said, there are probably the most number of personal accident plan options in the industry.

sorry for the late reply, was on business trip.

The permanent disability is a good to have thing, as far as i am concern, I do not wish to have a permanent disability. Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.
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Old 20-09-2017, 05:15 PM   #23
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What are good companies to purchase from? Friend rec me sompo pa star but I'm unable to get it cus of the nature of my work..

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Old 20-09-2017, 08:53 PM   #24
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[QUOTE=yumyumz;110384145]What are good companies to purchase from? Friend rec me sompo pa star but I'm unable to get it cus of the nature of my work..

You may want to consider NTUC Income.

https://www.income.com.sg/forms/broc....aspx?ext=.pdf
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Old 20-09-2017, 09:46 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=Shepherd Boy;110387602]
What are good companies to purchase from? Friend rec me sompo pa star but I'm unable to get it cus of the nature of my work..

You may want to consider NTUC Income.

https://www.income.com.sg/forms/broc....aspx?ext=.pdf
IMO Income is one of the worst in terms of price and cover. What's the basis of your reccomendation?
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Old 21-09-2017, 09:54 AM   #26
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ElderShield has some limitations. A major one is that the minimum entry age is 40. Also, the definition of "disability" is more narrow ("3 out of 6") than the definition in a typical disability income insurance policy. And ElderShield's maximum purchasable monthly benefit is rather low. There's also no inflation adjustment option for payouts. There's one advantage: if you pay premiums until age 65, you're covered for life. It's essentially long-term care (LTC) insurance.

The government is interested in improving ElderShield and is currently, as I write this, soliciting public comments.
Yeah, I hope the committee comes up with an ElderShield plan that is better than the current version. Payout period is definitely a consideration.
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Old 21-09-2017, 06:17 PM   #27
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[QUOTE=Bigoya;110388437]

IMO Income is one of the worst in terms of price and cover. What's the basis of your reccomendation?
So u have any to recommend?

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Old 21-09-2017, 06:44 PM   #28
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So u have any to recommend?
For disability income insurance, there are three carriers in Singapore:

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")

Aviva is also the carrier for the MinDef/MHA group disability income insurance rider. That voluntary rider is available to "Full-time National Servicemen (NSFs), Operationally Ready National Servicemen (NSmen), Regular servicemen and volunteers (SAF Volunteer Corps, NS Volunteers, SPF Voluntary Special Constabulary and Civil Defence Auxiliary Unit)."

If you're an older worker (45+), Clements International offers Lloyds underwritten disability income insurance that might be a good fit. It's not a great fit for younger workers since benefits are capped at roughly 12 years of salary.
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Old 21-09-2017, 11:14 PM   #29
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So u have any to recommend?

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Already did.

PA plans with Life Insurers are just expensive.
https://www.sompo.com.sg/docs/defaul...tar/pastar.pdf
Question is whether or not you need one, or if it fits your needs best.
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Old 21-09-2017, 11:17 PM   #30
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For disability income insurance, there are three carriers in Singapore:

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")
Finally we could continue from where we previously stopped.

For someone earning an income of about $3.5k per month or lesser, which plan would you recommend?
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