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Old 23-09-2015, 11:29 AM   #106
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just look from capital in and capital out point of view.

for WL, your capital out are the monthly premiums. for capital in, it is the surrender value.

for BTITR, capital out are your insurance + investment costs. capital in are your future value of STI ETF and Dividends.

capital in divided by capital out will form your returns.

we need more real life examples of some other past WL policies. i tried to dig but i cant seem to find any.
There are quite a few WL policies in this article
http://www.investmentmoats.com/budge...-to-5-returns/
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Old 23-09-2015, 11:44 AM   #107
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Nobody look at wholelife as investment, it is an insurance with surrender value, mthly premiums are fixed, the younger u buy the cheaper it is fixed at, u can opt to stop payment and the policy is still alive, I already shared this with u yesterday. U can choose to surrender or hold to maturity. And buy what u can afford, dun over commit only to terminate it later, hahaha

Make sure u buy the right wholelife lor, hahaha
I don't know about your vivolife, but this is what I read from the VivoLife conditions available online:

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You will pay your first premium at the time you apply for this policy. You will then pay future premiums when they are due. You will have 30 days as a period of grace to make these payments for this policy to continue. If we are due to pay any benefits during this period, we will take off any unpaid premiums from the benefits.

If you still have not paid the premium after the period of grace, we will pay the premiums on your behalf so the policy and its riders can continue. We will only do this if the policy has enough cash value to repay them. We treat this as a loan (called an automatic premium loan) and charge you interest. If there is not enough cash value , this policy will end.

We will take these loans and interest from any amount we may be due to pay under this policy. If at any time the amount of the loans and interest is more than the cash value , this policy will end.

If this policy ends because there is not enough cash value , you can reinstate it within 36 months by paying the premiums you owe along with interest. This applies as long as you give us satisfactory proof of the insured’s good health and there is no change in the risks covered by this policy.

The premium that you pay for this policy is not guaranteed. We will give you six months’ notice before we make any change.
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Old 23-09-2015, 11:47 AM   #108
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I don't know about your vivolife, but this is what I read from the VivoLife conditions available online:

-----------------------------------

You will pay your first premium at the time you apply for this policy. You will then pay future premiums when they are due. You will have 30 days as a period of grace to make these payments for this policy to continue. If we are due to pay any benefits during this period, we will take off any unpaid premiums from the benefits.

If you still have not paid the premium after the period of grace, we will pay the premiums on your behalf so the policy and its riders can continue. We will only do this if the policy has enough cash value to repay them. We treat this as a loan (called an automatic premium loan) and charge you interest. If there is not enough cash value , this policy will end.

We will take these loans and interest from any amount we may be due to pay under this policy. If at any time the amount of the loans and interest is more than the cash value , this policy will end.

If this policy ends because there is not enough cash value , you can reinstate it within 36 months by paying the premiums you owe along with interest. This applies as long as you give us satisfactory proof of the insured’s good health and there is no change in the risks covered by this policy.

The premium that you pay for this policy is not guaranteed. We will give you six months’ notice before we make any change.
hahaha, when did I say I got vivolife? I dun have that policy.

U dun pick and choose what u want to read or proof hor, u dun understand enough about wholelife to make any sweeping statements here, that is what I'm trying to tell u leh, hahaha

can u summarise what u understand from that condition? hahaha, clue, I never discuss about this condition hor.

Last edited by wts2013; 23-09-2015 at 11:50 AM..
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Old 23-09-2015, 11:51 AM   #109
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hahaha, when did I say I got vivolife? I dun have that policy.

U dun pick and choose what u want to read or proof hor, u dun understand enough about wholelife to make any sweeping statements here, that is what I'm trying to tell u leh, hahaha

can u summarise what u understand from that condition? hahaha, clue, I never discuss about this condition hor.
See, told you many times, you just say NTUC wholelife, who knows which one you are talking about. Likely cause more harm than good.
Best not to confuse people and be direct.
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Old 23-09-2015, 11:55 AM   #110
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See, told you many times, you just say NTUC wholelife, who knows which one you are talking about. Likely cause more harm than good.
Best not to confuse people and be direct.
hahaha, it is ok, this guy likes to make assumptions, he has alot more to learn, he is already teaching people BTIR but dun know how to calculate, let him learn more then he can teach correctly for the benefit of the community.

Remember what is the objective of this thread or case study.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:01 PM   #111
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hahaha, it is ok, this guy likes to make assumptions, he has alot more to learn, he is already teaching people BTIR but dun know how to calculate, let him learn more then he can teach correctly for the benefit of the community.

Remember what is the objective of this thread or case study.
But one should not confuse. As has been said many times, if you don't wish to share, don't. If you wish to share, make it clear. Because the way you are going, it does more harm than good.

The objective is wholelife vs BTIR, if you can't list a current one that can do that, it's according to you, assumptions.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:06 PM   #112
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hahaha, when did I say I got vivolife? I dun have that policy.

U dun pick and choose what u want to read or proof hor, u dun understand enough about wholelife to make any sweeping statements here, that is what I'm trying to tell u leh, hahaha

can u summarise what u understand from that condition? hahaha, clue, I never discuss about this condition hor.
Ok. I made a mistake. I read somewhere in the thread someone mentioned VivoLfve and assumed/remember wrongly that you're having VivoLife policy.

Maybe can you refer us to the terms and conditions of your policy?
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:08 PM   #113
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Ok. I made a mistake. I read somewhere in the thread someone mentioned VivoLfve and assumed/remember wrongly that you're having VivoLife policy.

Maybe can you refer us to the terms and conditions of your policy?
His old policy is the Living ones from NTUC which is not available anymore.
The new comparable one though, nobody know which one he meant.

Anyway, there are 5 according to this link.
http://www.income.com.sg/insurance/l...life-insurance
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:08 PM   #114
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But one should not confuse. As has been said many times, if you don't wish to share, don't. If you wish to share, make it clear. Because the way you are going, it does more harm than good.

The objective is wholelife vs BTIR, if you can't list a current one that can do that, it's according to you, assumptions.
hahaha, it is each person's choice, i just share only

I dun have does not mean it is no good. It is a "new" policy, which I have listened to how it works, but since I have enough policies, I did not look into it in detail, it is beneficial for those who dun have wholelife of mine now cos it is limited pay, which i would prefer if it was available before I got mine.

Still need detail evaluation.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:14 PM   #115
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hahaha, it is each person's choice, i just share only

I dun have does not mean it is no good. It is a "new" policy, which I have listened to how it works, but since I have enough policies, I did not look into it in detail, it is beneficial for those who dun have wholelife of mine now cos it is limited pay, which i would prefer if it was available before I got mine.

Still need detail evaluation.
What exactly did you share? Your old policy which is not available anymore.
Nothing concrete thus far, all is assumption of this new wholelife policy which no one have any idea of.

It's actually easier to BTIR, less work, no need to understand all these complicated policy terms and conditions and can outdo most wholelife policy barring this mystical one touted by wts2013.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:41 PM   #116
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hahaha, it is ok, this guy likes to make assumptions, he has alot more to learn, he is already teaching people BTIR but dun know how to calculate, let him learn more then he can teach correctly for the benefit of the community.

Remember what is the objective of this thread or case study.
Totally annoyed with his condescending tone, trying to be a teacher. Rather he go back to his shorts and huat big big than come here and confuse pple.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:49 PM   #117
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There are quite a few WL policies in this article
http://www.investmentmoats.com/budge...-to-5-returns/
those are mainly endowment plans. returns are generally max at 4% pa or negative.

as for WL policies, the returns are generally lower than endowments because they are providing higher death benefits.

for the only WL policy under study in this forum (NTUC Living Policy) recently, the rate of policy is at 3.42% pa. i believe this was the best available so far and i assume the others are generally worse off than that rate unless i am proven wrong with more data.

as for the BTITR approach, one would achieve a minimum of 2.2% pa (excluding dividends) during the same period.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:50 PM   #118
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Totally annoyed with his condescending tone, trying to be a teacher. Rather he go back to his shorts and huat big big than come here and confuse pple.
hahaha, ok, I think I have already shared enough, and looks like the conclusion here is BTIR, err not in theory, good luck to all, back to making money, huat ah!

(disclaimer: moi still wholelife)

Last edited by wts2013; 23-09-2015 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 23-09-2015, 04:37 PM   #119
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hahaha, moi like this, share with all

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/96765428-post809.html

but I dun understand what he mean by this:

"However, nowadays it is becoming more and more common for individuals to be insured for a large sum for whole life by getting a legacy plan or Universal life plan."
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Old 23-09-2015, 05:12 PM   #120
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Imho, whole life plan should not be used as an form of investment rather as a form of protection even after age 65 such as CI coverage. There are so many investment tools out there which can earn even more than what the insurer could pay.

I believe in forward planning such as even after the age of 65, you might need some coverage for CI. As integrated shield plan do not cover alternative medicine such as TCM or even new type of drugs. Unless you wanna fork out from our own retirement fund. (If you guys wanna do a total premium paid for CI term plan till age 99 vs whole life limited pay CI 100% accelerated, I can do it)

I believe different individual view it differently. So some may say they would wanna have that small portion of coverage for CI (for example 100k) while some feel that they do not need. It is really up to individual view and their needs.

Of course i am talking about whole life limited pay. That 100k coverage might not be 100k payout in the future as there are also cash value (which is the investment by the insurer).
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