what's the awol charge and punishment?

fone

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
18
you can call and enquire if you even know who to look for.

look at it this way, your friend's bf is also irresponsible by being awol/deserting.

but it's nicer if they actually call

Yeah, it is alot of extra work for them when the guy got caught on top of the usual work they have to do already.

Last time I went to like 4 hospitals all over sg for this guy... no driver... so few days wasted. Luckily is just when I posted to unit, so upper study still there, so double the manpower available.
 

beautybabies

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
73
Reaction score
0
you can call and enquire if you even know who to look for.

look at it this way, your friend's bf is also irresponsible by being awol/deserting.

but it's nicer if they actually call
awol/desserter is wrong, but once they caught him.. pls responsible to call, his bf also tell the officer to call his gf and allow his gf to be next of kin etc.. but they really irresponsible
 

fone

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
18
awol/desserter is wrong, but once they caught him.. pls responsible to call, his bf also tell the officer to call his gf and allow his gf to be next of kin etc.. but they really irresponsible

Irresponsible is when the defending officer just get some lousy mitigation plea without doing extra work, like getting medical records etc.
 

beautybabies

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
73
Reaction score
0
i believe ppl who awol surely has their own reason and problem, no ppl will awol for fun, but low percentage awol for fun..
 

beautybabies

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
73
Reaction score
0
Irresponsible is when the defending officer just get some lousy mitigation plea without doing extra work, like getting medical records etc.
yup believe.. but really hope that the office can be fair, do some extra work..
 

horacio

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
1,085
Reaction score
0
this kind of thing very hard for him. blame it on his stupidity in running away during his time in ns.

he only has 1 option: pray for the best.
 

novastrike

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
0
I'm not interested in the law, I know the law (though out of touch already).... The law is obviously available to the public. I'm talking about the document that gives the recommended punishment for each offence, if that is not classified, kindly find it for me. Exactly what a judge wants to give is not entirely up to him, there are guidelines he has to follow, bring up those for me if those are not classified. He can't just give 7 days DB for someone who AWOL for 4 years.[/QUOE]

document that give the punishment for each offence? how sure are you that such even exists? as far as trials go, be it civi or military, judges go on a case by case basis. there is no hard and fast rule nor formula stipulating 4 years AWOL/desertion get what kind of punishment. the judge has to take in mitigating factors such as the guy's background, his mental state etc. it is up to his defending officer to fight for him and for the judge to decide his fate. there is no "classified document" with the exact prescription for sentencing.

unless ur talking about precedents, then yes i suppose there will be some to serve as a guideline. but this case could be unique, who knows?
 

whatz_triz

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
768
Reaction score
1
awol/desserter is wrong, but once they caught him.. pls responsible to call, his bf also tell the officer to call his gf and allow his gf to be next of kin etc.. but they really irresponsible

Gf cannot be next of kin, unless legally married in ROM.

i believe ppl who awol surely has their own reason and problem, no ppl will awol for fun, but low percentage awol for fun..

If he dare to do it (AWOL), then he will have to face all the consequences after getting caught.
 

fone

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
18
document that give the punishment for each offence? how sure are you that such even exists? as far as trials go, be it civi or military, judges go on a case by case basis. there is no hard and fast rule nor formula stipulating 4 years AWOL/desertion get what kind of punishment. the judge has to take in mitigating factors such as the guy's background, his mental state etc. it is up to his defending officer to fight for him and for the judge to decide his fate. there is no "classified document" with the exact prescription for sentencing.

unless ur talking about precedents, then yes i suppose there will be some to serve as a guideline. but this case could be unique, who knows?

How I know it exists? I've seen it personally in my own office when I was a JDO. I can guarantee that if there are classified documents that gives recommended punishment to a JDO, there should be for all levels (SDO, SC, Court Martial etc). Either that or it will be based on past cases. If you know how they appoint the judges, you will know that none of the regulars have experience, can't say the same for reservist judges.

Your arguements seems to always state the obvious, which we all agree. There will never be documents with the exact prescription for sentencing let alone classified ones.
 

mynameisjon

Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
5,050
Reaction score
1
Eh guys FYI, if you served NS already it means you are at least a certain CAT clearance and can read "RESTRICTED" documents. AFAIK, information relating to R&D is only "RESTRICTED".

Don't say what classified classified and scare people. Classified is one level above Restricted.

Anyway Beauty, everyone awols for their own gain. There's no such thing as a good reason to AWOL. Parents pass, GF give birth, all superior can close one eye and give off/leave.

Saying "family problem" isn't exactly something that is unheard off in NS. Everyone uses it.

Family problem? Stay in la! Out of sight out of mind.
 

fone

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
18
Eh guys FYI, if you served NS already it means you are at least a certain CAT clearance and can read "RESTRICTED" documents. AFAIK, information relating to R&D is only "RESTRICTED".

Don't say what classified classified and scare people. Classified is one level above Restricted.

It goes something like:
Unclassified
Restricted
Confidential
Secret
Top Secret

One level above restricted is confidential, if you have it mixed up with the word "classified". Since unclassified means not classified... classified refers to anything that is restricted and above.

Also, this is on the internet, not everyone on this forum served NS or are Singaporeans. Cat clearance of people who have completed NS is irrelevant here.
 
Last edited:

reddevil0728

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
59,066
Reaction score
3,746
document that give the punishment for each offence? how sure are you that such even exists? as far as trials go, be it civi or military, judges go on a case by case basis. there is no hard and fast rule nor formula stipulating 4 years AWOL/desertion get what kind of punishment. the judge has to take in mitigating factors such as the guy's background, his mental state etc. it is up to his defending officer to fight for him and for the judge to decide his fate. there is no "classified document" with the exact prescription for sentencing.

unless ur talking about precedents, then yes i suppose there will be some to serve as a guideline. but this case could be unique, who knows?
Almost everything in the SAF even basic cover letter for some useless stuff also got classification. Restricted? It's still a classified material.

Eh guys FYI, if you served NS already it means you are at least a certain CAT clearance and can read "RESTRICTED" documents. AFAIK, information relating to R&D is only "RESTRICTED".

Don't say what classified classified and scare people. Classified is one level above Restricted.

Anyway Beauty, everyone awols for their own gain. There's no such thing as a good reason to AWOL. Parents pass, GF give birth, all superior can close one eye and give off/leave.

Saying "family problem" isn't exactly something that is unheard off in NS. Everyone uses it.

Family problem? Stay in la! Out of sight out of mind.

You are wrong. Restricted is also classified cause only unclassified stuff are not classified items.
 

Geforce3

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2000
Messages
66,441
Reaction score
1
ck means? use his son to ck? dun get it.. but since he on the run so many years, dun need to DB or something for punishment? now his gf is crying all the day and need to look after 2 children, if this goes on, she surely will have depression

somehow i think you are the gf but tough luck he will have to serve DB + NS
 

Geforce3

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2000
Messages
66,441
Reaction score
1
like i said and i hv to say again and keep repeating myself. i heard it's 2x the length u go awol. so 4yrs awol so 8 yrs db?

yea it's a mental problem. he can't escape db. they can keep him in db to undergo treatment.

think max 1-2 years lah but with good behaviour can be released earlier
 

novastrike

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
0
Almost everything in the SAF even basic cover letter for some useless stuff also got classification. Restricted? It's still a classified material.

huh. so what has it got to do with the topic at hand? in fact what has ANYTHING i said in that chunk u quoted me got to do with anything restricted, confidential or whatsoever? NOTHING. in fact, you have hardly provided any answers or tried to in any way.

beauty is trying to find out what COULD happen. instead of trying to put it in a way so that nothing "restricted" is leaked, you simply brush off the questions with "no answer-classified."

you make the PERFECT SAF Public Relations Officer, really.

that's for summary trial in unit, GCM is much longer

the maximum sentence that can be given is 2 years. anything above that and you go to a civi prison. mind you im talking about ONE SINGLE CHARGE.

how some people wind up in DB for 4, 5 years or more is usually a combination of 2 or more charges. eg. AWOL--1year DB + Glue Sniffing---1year DB + Obstruction to Military Policeman---6months DB= total 2.5 years DB total.

the sentences DO NOT RUN CONCURRENTLY but one after the other.
 
Last edited:

fone

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
18
that's for summary trial in unit, GCM is much longer

Summary trial by who got 60 days?
JDO max 10 days.
SDO max 15 days.

secondly, AWOL is never go civi prison as there is nth to do with civilian law. civilian courts do not trial AWOL-ees.

Lol, just because the fact that military offence must be charged in military court? Civilian courts do not trial military offences? Court martial is the level of subordinate courts in the sg court system and after any subordinate court (including court martial) decided on a sentence, either the defendent or the prosecution can appeal against the sentence. Where does the case go then? There is no high court for court martial for that matter. The appeal will definitely go to civilian high court.

In fact, by this press statement from MINDEF, including the Melvyn Tan case, there are many cases (for like defaulting) heard at civilian high court, of which 14 cases resulted in fines. Also it is said that "may now be more defaulters who are 40 or older coming before the courts with the passing of time.", notice the word "courts" is plural, there is only one functioning court martial. To use the word in plural simply means some are tried in civilian courts.

Coming back to the point... I don't think defaulting army got anything to do with civilian law, so does AWOL. If defaulting can be tried in civilian court, I don't see why not AWOL.

as for the charge sheet, the MPs will recommend what charge it is depending on whether they perceive it as AWOL or Desertion. there is only a very fine line between the two. for desertion, the unit usually has no say in the matter as its a whole different platform for punishment altogether.

The documents I only submit to court martial, not MP. I did not receive any reply on any recommendation before the charge was decided on. Maybe the MPs are so slack that they do not do this service. Even if it is defaulter / deserter, the unit files the case before the person is caught with absolutely no advice from MPs. Even if MP tells me why he is caught for, it is because the charge was on file to make him a wanted man. If decision lies with MP, then why is the unit providing with the charge sheet and not MP doing it? By right, recommendation should come before the decision is made. If both decision and recommendation lies with MP, why is the unit involved at all? Evidently, the person still belongs to the unit and the judicial powers still lies with the unit.


in this case, pray tell what information is classified? i dont see anything pertaining to beauty's query that is.

I'm praying the classified information, can you hear it?

beauty is trying to find out what COULD happen. instead of trying to put it in a way so that nothing "restricted" is leaked, you simply brush off the questions with "no answer-classified."

Some people care more about posting classified information, especially if still in service. Others like me couldn't care at all. Why do you care who is in which category? Information is information, even if paraphrasing you are still leaking information. Tell me how to say something restricted while leaking nothing restricted?
 
Last edited:

novastrike

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
0
fone. i would advise you to not write/comment on anything that you're unsure about. let me explain and revoke your points one by one.

Summary trial by who got 60 days?
JDO max 10 days.
SDO max 15 days.

SDO=40days DB.

Lol, just because the fact that military offence must be charged in military court? Civilian courts do not trial military offences? Court martial is the level of subordinate courts in the sg court system and after any subordinate court (including court martial) decided on a sentence, either the defendent or the prosecution can appeal against the sentence. Where does the case go then? There is no high court for court martial for that matter. The appeal will definitely go to civilian high court.

There IS a Military Court of Appeal. Look up sections 158-161/2 of SAF CAP 295.


In fact, by this press statement from MINDEF, including the Melvyn Tan case, there are many cases (for like defaulting) heard at civilian high court, of which 14 cases resulted in fines. Also it is said that "may now be more defaulters who are 40 or older coming before the courts with the passing of time.", notice the word "courts" is plural, there is only one functioning court martial. To use the word in plural simply means some are tried in civilian courts.

Coming back to the point... I don't think defaulting army got anything to do with civilian law, so does AWOL. If defaulting can be tried in civilian court, I don't see why not AWOL.

The issue you're talking about is DEFAULTING. it is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from AWOL/Desertion.

Defaulting is an offence under the Enlistment Act, which is under civilian law, which explains why the offenders are tried in the civilian courts. Defaulters are people who have yet to be enlisted and therefore cannot be charged under SAF Act Cap 295.

in fact, from the very same link you referred me to, i hereby quote:
"Pre-enlistees are not subject to the Singapore Armed Forces Act as they are not yet in the service of the SAF. Servicemen who commit offences under the Singapore Armed Forces Act are dealt with either in the Subordinate Military Court or by SAF disciplinary officers.

NS defaulters are dealt with under the Enlistment Act as they have failed to respond to orders to register or enlist for National Service, or failed to comply with Exit Permit requirements. MINDEF’s approach in dealing with NS defaulters has been to charge them in Court for Enlistment Act offences and let the Court impose an appropriate sentence based on the circumstances of each case and the provisions of the Enlistment Act."


The documents I only submit to court martial, not MP. I did not receive any reply on any recommendation before the charge was decided on. Maybe the MPs are so slack that they do not do this service. Even if it is defaulter / deserter, the unit files the case before the person is caught with absolutely no advice from MPs. Even if MP tells me why he is caught for, it is because the charge was on file to make him a wanted man. If decision lies with MP, then why is the unit providing with the charge sheet and not MP doing it? By right, recommendation should come before the decision is made. If both decision and recommendation lies with MP, why is the unit involved at all? Evidently, the person still belongs to the unit and the judicial powers still lies with the unit.


the unit files the case before the person is caught? OF COURSE. the unit is the one who reports to MP that their serviceman AWOL. but Desertion? are you sure your unit can prove desertion? i think not. and i never said that decision lies with MP. i was talking about the recommendation. and of course the person still belongs to unit. but desertion i can say that it is officially out of the unit's hands. straight court martial.


I'm praying the classified information, can you hear it?

????? your sentence structure fails.



Some people care more about posting classified information, especially if still in service. Others like me couldn't care at all. Why do you care who is in which category? Information is information, even if paraphrasing you are still leaking information. Tell me how to say something restricted while leaking nothing restricted?

i am still in service. my point is, the topic at hand is hardly classified/restricted/confidential. ask any MP and he will give you the answer.

and FYI. I am a current MP.
 

fone

Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
5,184
Reaction score
18
fone. i would advise you to not write/comment on anything that you're unsure about. let me explain and revoke your points one by one.

Prove it and substantiate your claims then.

SDO=40days DB.

SAF act could have been amended already, saw an article that maximum fine was increased, might be similar for max DB punishment. I know during my time, it was 15 days for SDO.

There IS a Military Court of Appeal. Look up sections 158-161/2 of SAF CAP 295.

SAF CAP 295? SAF Act, I hear before, Cap 295 yes, but not SAF Cap 295 (you want to talk about sentence structure huh?). Ok, maybe I remember wrongly, ROD (not ORD) so long ago. Where is it located? (same building as GSM ar?)

Defaulting is an offence under the Enlistment Act, which is under civilian law, which explains why the offenders are tried in the civilian courts. Defaulters are people who have yet to be enlisted and therefore cannot be charged under SAF Act Cap 295.

Yes, I know enlistment act different from SAF act. I know that time not taking RT (for NSmen) falls under enlistment act. That's why there was a need to give paper SAF100s (after going all electronic) for RTs for them to be chargeable under SAF act. SAF act was probably amended by now.

the unit files the case before the person is caught? OF COURSE. the unit is the one who reports to MP that their serviceman AWOL. but Desertion? are you sure your unit can prove desertion? i think not. and i never said that decision lies with MP. i was talking about the recommendation. and of course the person still belongs to unit. but desertion i can say that it is officially out of the unit's hands. straight court martial.

Your statement is self contradicting. Who decides if this person should be charged with desertion? MP or unit? and who makes the decision? unit or MP? First you said that decision does not lies with MP, which implies it lies with the unit, then you say desertion is out of unit's hand, so implying that decision lies with MP. So who has the decision?

????? your sentence structure fails.
Perfectly correct grammer. Check your statement that I quoted before you talk about mine.

i am still in service. my point is, the topic at hand is hardly classified/restricted/confidential. ask any MP and he will give you the answer.

and FYI. I am a current MP.
First, tell me where all your knowledge comes from... Then tell me if the course materials from MP school are labelled as restricted or not? If you are telling me something you learnt from MP school and the course materials are labelled as restricted, then the information is classified. Where did you learn that the decision to charge with desertion lies with MP? SAF Act? Enlistment Act? or MP course? No "restricted" course material to state so, then what is the punishment for leaking restricted material? (I don't really care, since letters I write to NSmen are supposedly restricted, but parents/friends still read them too. Some of my era NSmen have only pri sch education, duno how to read, so they have no choice but the ask others to read for them).
 
Last edited:

reddevil0728

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
59,066
Reaction score
3,746
????? your sentence structure fails.
in this case, pray tell what information is classified? i dont see anything pertaining to beauty's query that is.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showpost.php?p=44270138&postcount=119
6a875b63.gif

i am still in service. my point is, the topic at hand is hardly classified/restricted/confidential. ask any MP and he will give you the answer.

and FYI. I am a current MP.
I like this best. MP = BIG F?
6a875b63.gif
so current in service MP learn all their stuff from MP school that are supposedly classified AT LEAST restricted can just leak "classified" information even though it is only restricted? Yes the consequence of leaking restricted information is not as dire as that of confi and secret but ain't that still leaking of classified information? Maybe you want to look at the directives again if you even have OA whether restricted is classified or not.
 
Last edited:
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top