HWZ Forums

LastBattle · 27-06-2012, 02:23 PM

Ibodnano wrote:

i despise nokia after pureview 808 and n9

you are always negative, not unusual.

Promethus · 27-06-2012, 03:36 PM

From a user / consumer point of view. I abandoned Nokia and went for Samsung android and iOS not because of the platform Nokia chose to incorporate into their devices. But the lack of after sales support.

They seemed to abandon their customers quickly and expect them to just upgrade to their new products which is a rehash of the previous.

Motorola rose from the grave previously with the Razr, but instead of keeping it high end and exclusive, they chose to turn it into a mass market product. Honestly, there is nothing special about it, and what drives people to buy it is it's exclusiveness.

In the camera world, the same thing is happening.
Leica releases X1. Got thrashed by Fuji X100. Decide to abandon X1 and release a rehash of the former, X2.
Resale price dropped drastically. Current and ex owners of the camera lose their confidence in the brand. They will most likely not support this brand again. Unless they are hardcore Leica supporters.
They pulled the same stunt with Leica M8 and M9 as well.

Fuji on the other hand, refine their camera with constant firmware upgrade. Customers gained confidence in the brand and their products, they will most likely buy another Fuji down the road.

Nokia, Motorola, SE and Samsung (previously) made the same mistake of releasing too many mass models that cannibalized into their flagship.

Apple proved that a single product at a time and refining it slowly works wonder for them. Consumers no longer feel cheated.

Internetsexplorer · 27-06-2012, 03:41 PM

adix_82 wrote:

Meego project was heavily invested. Money effort thrown in. Tomi revealed that million were thrown into Meego.

A good win win situation is placing priority on Meego, continue with symbian and make wp 7 os a small investment.

Elop threw Meego away instantly. Drove symbian to its death instantly. Place all bet on to wp7 with no plan b.

The problem still lies with execution.

Give meego 2 years and it might be better than win os.. and save hell lots of money. Market share stable. No need to shut off new York HQ. No need to shut of nokia store worldwide and etc.. elop is trading a ratio of 6 loyal customers to a new lumia customer..

I agree with adix. Nokia didn't have to become such a loyal and exclusive partner to Windows Phone beginning with WP7 when it had Meego waiting in the wings. I believe it was reported in a Business Week article that Elop found that Meego was not ready, and would not be able to produce many devices in 2012. But the Meego kernel was already so much more advanced than the locked down WP7 stack, which Nokia had no say over. In contrast, Elop's move to use WP7 instead locked Nokia into building to MS specifications, with no say at all on WP7 direction, except lowering specs to make the 610.

Surely it makes more sense to transition away from Symbian, a decade old OS, to the new and upcoming Meego, rather than transition from Symbian to WP7 (touting it as the next big thing), and further transitioning to WP8? Nokia is now in the unenviable position of asking its consumers and the carriers to wait with it as it transitions TWICE through major OS platforms. This cavalier attitude smacks of Microsoft arrogance and not caring much about continuity. Look at how MS ditched the original Xbox and the early adopters just so it could push out the Xbox 360 quicker. History tends to repeat itself.

Consumers (and carriers) have long memories. Memories of trust and dependable Nokia phones kept their customers buying up till the N97. Perhaps there was some forgiveness when Symbian^3 came, because the N8 sold well. But it will be very hard to get over the Lumia now. Even Windows Mobile customers liked the platform for what it was, but MS ditched them.

Is there hope at the end of this year for Nokia to somehow turn it around with WP8? That depends on what remains of its mindshare. Remember when Samsung and Sony-Ericsson had lousy mindshare? Did the Omnia/Omnia 2/Xperia X1 turn out to be roaring successes? No. Was the HTC Touch and Touch Diamond a success solely because it ran WinMo? No. HTC had to hide almost everything Windows with Sense in order to make it attractive and usable, and its success with that line was credited to it in spite of running WinMo. Anyway, back to Nokia's future. If enough compelling features are revealed for WP7.8, then it would signal that MS/Nokia do care about existing Lumia customers and won't leave them hanging. Much MUST be done to convince developers to continue developing for WP7.

sianz · 27-06-2012, 06:47 PM

Millions into Meego but sunk cost is sunk cost. Yes I had an N9. It was cool but to build an ecosystem from scratch would take too long. Elop executed badly but I think he had to say the things he said publicly to restructure the company. They could not afford a 4billion r&d bill anymore and in all honesty if not for windows phone I think they would be in even worse shape now. At least now they have a strong partner.

adix_82 · 27-06-2012, 07:17 PM

sianz wrote:

Millions into Meego but sunk cost is sunk cost. Yes I had an N9. It was cool but to build an ecosystem from scratch would take too long. Elop executed badly but I think he had to say the things he said publicly to restructure the company. They could not afford a 4billion r&d bill anymore and in all honesty if not for windows phone I think they would be in even worse shape now. At least now they have a strong partner.

Nokia market share before Feb is 29% and slowly going up. Smartphone section for the first time was making money. That was the effort of elop in the first 5 months he was in office. He was clearing ex ceo opk mess.

Nokia that time is bigger than Samsung and apple.

So a normal ceo will put his effort on its own product which is meego (no royalties to pay) then slowly and secretly put symbian to its sleep.. then bet a small amount on win7 and hopes it pay off. Nokia have more than enough time to get its smartphone division into a money making machine.

Why pay Microsoft to put win os in every nokia phone and ditch it own meego which is free. Then at the end of day kanna play out by Microsoft and bleeds to its death..

In less than a year.. everything is gone..

In the correct way.. it should be Microsoft following nokia foot step. Now its vice versa.. which is totally abnormal.

Microsoft is rich.. that is the reason why it can afford to kick partner away without a 2nd glance. It can kick consumer away without a 2nd glance.

nemesisranger · 27-06-2012, 07:28 PM

Nokia is dying? Definitely
Is it dead yet? nope
Will Nokia be able to stand up again? not very sure.
The rest is only speculation.

lovesleeping1981 · 27-06-2012, 09:34 PM

IT SHALL RISE AGAIIIINNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

RISE MY NOKIA!!!!

COS I GOT $800+ WORTH OF SHARES IN YOU!!!

adix_82 · 27-06-2012, 11:35 PM

Facts and figure always tell the truth.

NOKIA REVISED (DOWNGRADED) FORECAST BY TOMI AHONEN IN JUNE 2012:

2010 Q4 . . . 28.3 M units . . . 29% market share

2011 Q1 . . . 24.2 M units . . . 24%

2011 Q2 . . . 16.7 M units . . . 15%

2011 Q3 . . . 16.8 M units . . . 14%

2011 Q4 . . . 19.6 M units . . . 13% . . . Lumia 600,000

2012 Q1 . . . 11.9 M units . . . 8% . . . . Lumia 2.0 M

2012 Q2* . . 8.4 M units . . . 5% . . . . Lumia 4.0 M

2012 Q3* . . 5.2 M units . . . 3% . . . . Lumia 3.1 M

2012 Q4** . . 5.3 M units . . . 2% . . . . Lumia 5.0 M**

* forecast, all others actual

** Nokia Q4 2012 forecast for Lumia sales increase assumes at least 2 new Lumia

smartphones released by November that run on Windows Phone 8

Above data actual Nokia through Q1 2012, rest are forecast by TomiAhonen Consulting June

27, 2012

LastBattle · 28-06-2012, 07:38 AM

sianz wrote:

Millions into Meego but sunk cost is sunk cost. Yes I had an N9. It was cool but to build an ecosystem from scratch would take too long. Elop executed badly but I think he had to say the things he said publicly to restructure the company. They could not afford a 4billion r&d bill anymore and in all honesty if not for windows phone I think they would be in even worse shape now. At least now they have a strong partner.

Yes and look at Apple's R&D, it is barely a billion and yet they are able to produce such a good product.

lovesleeping1981 wrote:

IT SHALL RISE AGAIIIINNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

RISE MY NOKIA!!!!

COS I GOT $800+ WORTH OF SHARES IN YOU!!!

Came down from your $1000 =\

adix_82 wrote:

Facts and figure always tell the truth.

NOKIA REVISED (DOWNGRADED) FORECAST BY TOMI AHONEN IN JUNE 2012:

2010 Q4 . . . 28.3 M units . . . 29% market share

2011 Q1 . . . 24.2 M units . . . 24%

2011 Q2 . . . 16.7 M units . . . 15%

2011 Q3 . . . 16.8 M units . . . 14%

2011 Q4 . . . 19.6 M units . . . 13% . . . Lumia 600,000

2012 Q1 . . . 11.9 M units . . . 8% . . . . Lumia 2.0 M

2012 Q2* . . 8.4 M units . . . 5% . . . . Lumia 4.0 M

2012 Q3* . . 5.2 M units . . . 3% . . . . Lumia 3.1 M

2012 Q4** . . 5.3 M units . . . 2% . . . . Lumia 5.0 M**

* forecast, all others actual

** Nokia Q4 2012 forecast for Lumia sales increase assumes at least 2 new Lumia

smartphones released by November that run on Windows Phone 8

Above data actual Nokia through Q1 2012, rest are forecast by TomiAhonen Consulting June

27, 2012

Nokia actually got upgraded to "BUY" rating today by one of those analysis..
http://www.economy-news.co.uk/other-...a-shares-a-buy

but I think in the coming weeks its gonna go down to $1.9 unless they somehow managed to sell 5~7million Lumias for Q2.. not quite impossible with US & china market

i'll still continue buying though, not gonna buy them at the last minute when good news comes. It'll be too late by then, since there's still agent cost

adix_82 · 28-06-2012, 10:41 AM

LastBattle wrote:

Yes and look at Apple's R&D, it is barely a billion and yet they are able to produce such a good product.

Came down from your $1000 =\

Nokia actually got upgraded to "BUY" rating today by one of those analysis..
Nokia Corp is a 'speculative' Buy - One analyst says that Windows Phone 8 is actually better than iOS and Android

but I think in the coming weeks its gonna go down to $1.9 unless they somehow managed to sell 5~7million Lumias for Q2.. not quite impossible with US & china market

i'll still continue buying though, not gonna buy them at the last minute when good news comes. It'll be too late by then, since there's still agent cost

Bro, how to purchase the stock? Lol.. what is the min?

LastBattle · 28-06-2012, 01:12 PM

adix_82 wrote:

Bro, how to purchase the stock? Lol.. what is the min?

There's no min for US stocks, you can even get 1 at once which cost only 2 dollars unlike those in SGX where min is 1000.

I use DBS Vickers, just key in the amount you want on the website.

LastBattle · 28-06-2012, 10:20 PM

Nokia has been crashing even before Elop (2011), see this graph..
its declining at a steady rate. I bet if his predecessor was still the CEO of Nokia, they won't even be selling Lumias but N9/N8 right now.