Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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shadowoflight

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Hey guys

Considering system 3 starmex 5 ticks, from coolserve:
3x MSXY-FJ10VE
1x MXY-3G28VA

I was talking to a gain city salesperson, and he recommended me the 2 tick model, saying that the 5 tick compressor is underpowered at 20k btu (should be minimum 27k)

I was also looking at the brochure here. It says that the power is 6 (2.9-8.9) KW, which is technically 20,400 (9860-30,260) BTU.

That's kinda confusing. I guess the gain city guy was using the 6kw rating to make the recommendation, while the coolserv website is using the max number in the bracket to say that the compressor has a 30k btw capacity.

How are power ratings published for other brands/models? Why are there different numbers and which one should we use?

Personally, I'm looking at 5 tick because we use the aircon a lot. 1 unit will be on almost 24 hours, the other about 12 hours, and the 3rd on about 8 hours.

Obviously, the 5 tick rating will be pointless if I get 3x 9k btu blower but the capacity of the compressor is only ard 20k.

I've also been told that there's a noise issue. experiences anyone? If this compressor is truly underpowered, is the noise the result of it overworking?

I'm open to recommendations, except daikin because in my experience they're noisy and shitty lol.

Also I'm assuming it would be good to upgrade the pipe and insulation. Recommendations for merchants also welcome. Was checking out coolserv since they seem to be highly recommended by the folks at renotalk. All best seemed to have screwed up the piping for our current toshiba set.
 
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leobox1

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Yes and no.

Though the FJ series with MXY-4G28VA has 5 ticks, its max capacity for a 10+10+10+10 configuration is only 6.5kW (22k Btu), while your existing MXY-4A28VA (with limiting current) has max capacity of 7.2kW (24.5k Btu).

It therefore depends on the temperature setting that you which to achieve for each room. From the spec, full capacity of each FCU cannot be achieved with either 4G or 4A condenser, even if you up-size to 38VA for the condenser.

By the way, the 5 ticks COP full load of 4.89 is just 0.03 above the NEA's rating of 4.86. So it is very close to only 4 ticks (high side).

You may wish to do an running cost vs initial cost to see what saving you are getting. It may be good to know that other users of the 5 ticks model is paying for their usage pattern.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are useful.

Thank you.

Sorry I still confused. So I should buy a new set or just change my MBR unit?
 

dachee

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Thank you.

Sorry I still confused. So I should buy a new set or just change my MBR unit?

Hi, Sorry that you are confused. It is good to understand so that you can make a rational decision.

What is it that you are confused about? Good to clarify your doubt.
 
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JAPDestiny

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Moving into a resale flat soon, need some advice.
Current config is system 3 inverter ac, one each in Living room, MBR and BR 1

Hubby is more inclined to change to 1 compressor for living room, another compressor for MBR and BR1 ( dun need BR2)

Any major diff as compared to system 3 instead?
Will elec consumption be MUCH higher than sys 3?
we use ac a lot esp for living room.

Also looking at starmex series, pls recommend suitable config. its a small flat of 85 sqm only.

Thks!
 

dachee

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Moving into a resale flat soon, need some advice.
Current config is system 3 inverter ac, one each in Living room, MBR and BR 1

Hubby is more inclined to change to 1 compressor for living room, another compressor for MBR and BR1 ( dun need BR2)

Any major diff as compared to system 3 instead?
Will elec consumption be MUCH higher than sys 3?
we use ac a lot esp for living room.

Also looking at starmex series, pls recommend suitable config. its a small flat of 85 sqm only.

Thks!

Hi, Let's look at system 3 FJ series with the MXY-3G28VA condernser as it has 5 ticks (just over the 4 ticks rating by 0.03) for energy saving. This system 3 has capacity of 6 kW with full load COP of 4.88 and the air flow of the FJ10 at high is 16.9 m3/min and sound level of 19.47 dB.

The FJ10, if not wrong has a 2.5 kW capacity. Meaning with 3 FJ10, you can use up to 7.5 kW but the 3G28VA only provides 6 kW. In bracket it is written that the 3G28VA has 6(2.9-8.9), if I am not wrong, it means that the max capacity which it can reach is 8.9. However, this value is likely to happen only for a short while and therefore cannot be considered in normal operation. Thus the normal rating is given as 6 kW.

With the system 2 FJ series using MXY-2G20VA condenser with 5 ticks, the normal rating is 4.8 kW with full load COP of 4.87. You can still use the same indoor FCU as system 3.

With 2 FJ10 having a total of 2.5 X 2 = 5 kW, it can be supported by the 4.8 kW rating of the 2GVA. So you still get the good energy saving of 5 ticks with just 4.88-4.87 = 0.01 less COP between the 3G28VA and the 2G20VA.

If your living room is small, accepting up to 9k Btu or 2.5 kW, than you can use the MUY-GE10VA condenser and MSY-GE10VA FCU with a normal capacity rating of 2.5 kW and, full load COP of 4.56, FCU air flow and sound of 11.4 m3/min (lesser than the FJ10) and 19-40 dB respectively.

Note that having 2 condensers would mean that you would need 2 isolators (ie power point), one for each condenser. An addition one is therefore needed.

In the event that you need a higher capacity for your living room, then, you can up size to the 2G and use FJ13 or the FJ18 which has 3.5 kW and 4.8 kW respectively. Pls confirm with Mitsubishi support team on this configuration.

The above are my opinion and hope they are helpful.
 
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terumo

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To JAPDestiny,

You have to check if your resale flat allows installation of 2 compressor units first.
 

EviLAng3L

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need some input from all the aircon guru. my contractor recommended me his air con installer. below are the quotes for 4 room bto.

Mks80qvmg/ ctks25qvm ×3 / ctks50qvm ×1
Daikin $4500

Mxy-4g28va/ msxy-fj10ve ×3 / msxy-fj18ve ×1
Mitsubishi electric
$4580

*Upgraded ac materials using
-16mm upvc drainage pipe
-22swq copper cool LCHT
-100% pure copper flexible cable - both 3c70 & 3c40 keystone
-1/2" thickness armaflex insulation
 

orangeman

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Hi dachee bro, saw your input about additional isolater for second compressor.
Just to check if the second system is a System 1 unit, can we request the electrician to change the plug to a higher AMP instead of isolator?
 

dachee

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Hi dachee bro, saw your input about additional isolater for second compressor.
Just to check if the second system is a System 1 unit, can we request the electrician to change the plug to a higher AMP instead of isolator?

Hi, I don't think you can do that. The breaker at the DB, if not wrong is 20A. Some condensers need max fuse size of 15A with Min. circuit ampacity (MCA) of 12A which affect the wire size while others need max fuse size of 20A and MCA of 17A.

So if you have two condensers using the same set of wires, breaker then, it is likely that you may have your wires burnt due to overloading. Changing the plug to a higher AMP does not improve the wires and breaker capacity.

The above are my opinion and hope they are useful.
 

dachee

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need some input from all the aircon guru. my contractor recommended me his air con installer. below are the quotes for 4 room bto.

Mks80qvmg/ ctks25qvm ×3 / ctks50qvm ×1
Daikin $4500

Mxy-4g28va/ msxy-fj10ve ×3 / msxy-fj18ve ×1
Mitsubishi electric
$4580

*Upgraded ac materials using
-16mm upvc drainage pipe
-22swq copper cool LCHT
-100% pure copper flexible cable - both 3c70 & 3c40 keystone
-1/2" thickness armaflex insulation

Hi,

I think you can get the Diakin and Mitsubishi system 4, both of similar condenser and FCUs at $4209 and $4388 respectively with same installation materials.

Above are my opinion and hope they are useful.
 

leobox1

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Hi, Sorry that you are confused. It is good to understand so that you can make a rational decision.

What is it that you are confused about? Good to clarify your doubt.

Not your fault .. ish I lousy ..

Just not sure is compressor issue .. ie change whole set .. or just MBr unit .. change only 1 .. save money ...

Also don't know who can reliably check for me without pushing me to some sales objective
 

EviLAng3L

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Hi,

I think you can get the Diakin and Mitsubishi system 4, both of similar condenser and FCUs at $4209 and $4388 respectively with same installation materials.

Above are my opinion and hope they are useful.

hmm.. may i know where can u get price of $4209 and $4388
 

dachee

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hmm.. may i know where can u get price of $4209 and $4388

Hi, you can do an internet search with this "air conditioner promotion singapore".

The result should bring you to a few companies, some listing prices close to these. But there are also installer who are able to sell lower prices as they can buy the unit at special prices from the authorized dealer than you.

Hope the above are helpful.
 

dachee

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Not your fault .. ish I lousy ..

Just not sure is compressor issue .. ie change whole set .. or just MBr unit .. change only 1 .. save money ...

Also don't know who can reliably check for me without pushing me to some sales objective

Hi, Since yours is a Mitsubishi Electric product, you can call their technical support team for help and to provide you some recommended installer who are able to help you diagnose the problem accurately.

You may not have to change any FCU or condenser at all. It could be a piping system fault rather than a unit fault.

Call the installers to check whether they charge for visiting, ask for quote and compare.

Hope the avoid is helpful.
 

dachee

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Hey guys

Considering system 3 starmex 5 ticks, from coolserve:
3x MSXY-FJ10VE
1x MXY-3G28VA

1. I was talking to a gain city salesperson, and he recommended me the 2 tick model, saying that the 5 tick compressor is underpowered at 20k btu (should be minimum 27k)

2. I was also looking at the brochure here. It says that the power is 6 (2.9-8.9) KW, which is technically 20,400 (9860-30,260) BTU.

That's kinda confusing. I guess the gain city guy was using the 6kw rating to make the recommendation, while the coolserv website is using the max number in the bracket to say that the compressor has a 30k btw capacity.

How are power ratings published for other brands/models? Why are there different numbers and which one should we use?

3. Personally, I'm looking at 5 tick because we use the aircon a lot. 1 unit will be on almost 24 hours, the other about 12 hours, and the 3rd on about 8 hours.

Obviously, the 5 tick rating will be pointless if I get 3x 9k btu blower but the capacity of the compressor is only ard 20k.

4. I've also been told that there's a noise issue. experiences anyone? If this compressor is truly underpowered, is the noise the result of it overworking?

I'm open to recommendations, except daikin because in my experience they're noisy and shitty lol.

5. Also I'm assuming it would be good to upgrade the pipe and insulation. Recommendations for merchants also welcome. Was checking out coolserv since they seem to be highly recommended by the folks at renotalk. All best seemed to have screwed up the piping for our current toshiba set.

Hi,

Pls refer to your comment above which I insert serial numbers for easy reference.

1. 5 ticks underpower - I would not say that the compressor is underpower because, in reality, most air conditioner system do not operate at full capacity all the time. It will depends on the temperature setting, fan speed, room humidity and outdoor temperature. So if the temperature setting is in what the manufacturer determined to be normal setting by the "population" of people, then the capacity of each FCU when operating together is within the compressor capacity. Meaning the normal operation is about 20k Btu.

2. It says that the power is 6 (2.9-8.9) KW, which is technically 20,400 (9860-30,260) BTU. 20.4k is normal rating , most people will use this amount with the indicated configuration of FCUs, 9.8k is min rating and 30.2k Btu is max. rating. But note that max. rating operates only for a short while and not continuous.

3. Yes, that will happen if you have all the FCUs running at full capacity, ie the coldest setting but if you are in an environment where you only need to cool down from 32 degree C to 25 degree C, then you may not need to remove 9k Btu but maybe only 5k Btu, so with all 3 FCUs operating at 25 degree, you only need 15K Btu out of your 20k Btu capacity compressor.

4. I've also been told that there's a noise issue. experiences anyone? If this compressor is truly underpowered, is the noise the result of it overworking?

Condenser noise can be due to many causes. However if it is due to the compressor, it will be inherited in its design and should appear in all similar products. You can visit Mitsubishi Electric at their Alexander Road showroom to have the respective set turned on to observe whether there is such noise at full capacity.

5. Also I'm assuming it would be good to upgrade the pipe and insulation. I feel that all installation should be done according to the manufacturing requirements. In doing so, any problem is still the responsibility of both the installer and the manufacturer within the warranty period. The upgrade is more a marketing approach to address the added precaution that most customers would like to have. But it is not a must.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
 

JAPDestiny

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Hi,

I think you can get the Diakin and Mitsubishi system 4, both of similar condenser and FCUs at $4209 and $4388 respectively with same installation materials.

Above are my opinion and hope they are useful.

My contractor quoted me: I dun hv the model #s
Mitsubishi starmex inverter:

Option 1:
System 3: 18k BTU living, 9k MBR, 12k BR1(2 rooms hack into 1, so its bigger than MBR) @$3.6k

Option 2: 2 compressors since we requested our pref
Compressor 1: System 2: 12k MBR, 12k BR1
Compressor 2: 1 single unit 18k @$4.6k

are the quotes reasonable?
 
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