Views personal accident plans

xtwis7

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I don't think anybody would wish for permanent disability. Personal accident plans definitely still offer medical reimbursement for minor accidents that don't require you to be admitted.

With that said, there are probably the most number of personal accident plan options in the industry.

sorry for the late reply, was on business trip.

The permanent disability is a good to have thing, as far as i am concern, I do not wish to have a permanent disability. Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.
 

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windwaver

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ElderShield has some limitations. A major one is that the minimum entry age is 40. Also, the definition of "disability" is more narrow ("3 out of 6") than the definition in a typical disability income insurance policy. And ElderShield's maximum purchasable monthly benefit is rather low. There's also no inflation adjustment option for payouts. There's one advantage: if you pay premiums until age 65, you're covered for life. It's essentially long-term care (LTC) insurance.

The government is interested in improving ElderShield and is currently, as I write this, soliciting public comments.

Yeah, I hope the committee comes up with an ElderShield plan that is better than the current version. Payout period is definitely a consideration.
 

BBCWatcher

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So u have any to recommend?
For disability income insurance, there are three carriers in Singapore:

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")

Aviva is also the carrier for the MinDef/MHA group disability income insurance rider. That voluntary rider is available to "Full-time National Servicemen (NSFs), Operationally Ready National Servicemen (NSmen), Regular servicemen and volunteers (SAF Volunteer Corps, NS Volunteers, SPF Voluntary Special Constabulary and Civil Defence Auxiliary Unit)."

If you're an older worker (45+), Clements International offers Lloyds underwritten disability income insurance that might be a good fit. It's not a great fit for younger workers since benefits are capped at roughly 12 years of salary.
 

Bigoya

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For disability income insurance, there are three carriers in Singapore:

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")

Finally we could continue from where we previously stopped.

For someone earning an income of about $3.5k per month or lesser, which plan would you recommend?
 

BBCWatcher

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For someone earning an income of about $3.5k per month or lesser, which plan would you recommend?
Probably the one with the most attractive premium for the desired level of monthly income. That happened to be AIA when I got quotations, but of course your mileage may vary.

The MinDef/MHA group policy disability income insurance rider is likely to be the most attractive option for those who qualify.
 

simplelifez

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For disability income insurance, there are three carriers in Singapore:

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")

Aviva is also the carrier for the MinDef/MHA group disability income insurance rider. That voluntary rider is available to "Full-time National Servicemen (NSFs), Operationally Ready National Servicemen (NSmen), Regular servicemen and volunteers (SAF Volunteer Corps, NS Volunteers, SPF Voluntary Special Constabulary and Civil Defence Auxiliary Unit)."

If you're an older worker (45+), Clements International offers Lloyds underwritten disability income insurance that might be a good fit. It's not a great fit for younger workers since benefits are capped at roughly 12 years of salary.

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")

If amongst these three, no need to think - go for GE payassure
no because of premium whatsoever, the definition of "occupation" is the best.
 

Bigoya

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Probably the one with the most attractive premium for the desired level of monthly income. That happened to be AIA when I got quotations, but of course your mileage may vary.

The MinDef/MHA group policy disability income insurance rider is likely to be the most attractive option for those who qualify.

I personally see too much limitations in SAF/MHA disability income rider.

1. You can only insure up to 50% of your current Income.
2. Should you resume working during the disability period, your benefit payout would be reduced based on the Proportionate Benefit.
3. Waiting period is a tad too long. There is no payout during this period.
4. Insurance is not valid if the Insured Person is no longer employed.
5. There may be a couple more points which I can't really recall now.

Maybe you might want to share how you find this the most attractive?

However, I do agree with your point of view that AIA's one of the more attractive option among the 3.

Great Eastern ("Pay Assure")
Aviva ("IdealIncome")
AIA ("Premier Disability Cover")

If amongst these three, no need to think - go for GE payassure
no because of premium whatsoever, the definition of "occupation" is the best.

I've not come across Payassure's product summary and pricing. Do you happen to have an actual copy of the PS?

What does the "occupation" definition says that made you fall in love at first sight?
 
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BBCWatcher

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Maybe you might want to share how you find this the most attractive?
It’s going to have a lower premium given that it’s a rider with a group plan underneath, and it’s a lower risk cohort. I’d much rather see people who need disability income insurance insure with this rider versus not insuring at all (or underinsuring).

Yes, it’s a slightly narrower policy than the other three but still fairly characterized as genuine disability income insurance. As always, you have to read the fine print.

I've not come across Payassure's product summary and pricing. Do you happen to have an actual copy of the PS?
I don’t, but I recall raeding through a paper copy earlier this year. The three policies available to the general public aren’t too far apart, but I recall that Great Eastern offers lots of elimination period choices. Also, there are some differences in occupational categories and, thus, assumed risk profiles. And that, in turn, can have a big impact on the premium.
 

Bigoya

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It’s going to have a lower premium given that it’s a rider with a group plan underneath, and it’s a lower risk cohort. I’d much rather see people who need disability income insurance insure with this rider versus not insuring at all (or underinsuring).

Yes, it’s a slightly narrower policy than the other three but still fairly characterized as genuine disability income insurance. As always, you have to read the fine print.


I don’t, but I recall raeding through a paper copy earlier this year. The three policies available to the general public aren’t too far apart, but I recall that Great Eastern offers lots of elimination period choices. Also, there are some differences in occupational categories and, thus, assumed risk profiles. And that, in turn, can have a big impact on the premium.

Sometimes there could be details not even stated in the fine prints so again, consumer may not make the right judgement.

I'm not sure of you knew AIA's Premier Disability Cover caps the sum assured to 70% of income. This isn't mentioned on the product summary, unless the agent is aware and ask for your income, otherwise you could have bought more than you can be insured.

That being said, Aviva's IdealIncome caps at 75%, slightly higher, SAF/MHA rider caps at 50% (pretty much pathetic IMO). Where does GE caps it?


Back to my question to you previously, for one who makes an income of $3.5k, he could only purchase up to $2450 with AIA. So if he gets paid for partial disability and assuming he goes back to work and manage to earn a lower income of $2k due to his partial disability, AIA pays $450/per mth...

For this reason I'd personally put focus on my disability on a PA plan instead.
 

BBCWatcher

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I'm not sure of you knew AIA's Premier Disability Cover caps the sum assured to 70% of income. This isn't mentioned on the product summary....
It's 75%, and it's mentioned right here, practically at the top.

That being said, Aviva's IdealIncome caps at 75%, slightly higher, SAF/MHA rider caps at 50% (pretty much pathetic IMO). Where does GE caps it?
Great Eastern is 75%, also mentioned right up front.

Having 50% income replacement is better than zero. If you want 75%, I don't know any reason why you cannot stack policies. You max out the MinDef/MHA rider, then add 25% from one of the other three -- that works, assuming you're OK with the individual policy terms/conditions. (Easiest to do with Aviva, perhaps, since they're the underwriter for the MinDef/MHA rider.)

Back to my question to you previously, for one who makes an income of $3.5k, he could only purchase up to $2450 with AIA. So if he gets paid for partial disability and assuming he goes back to work and manage to earn a lower income of $2k due to his partial disability, AIA pays $450/per mth...

For this reason I'd personally put focus on my disability on a PA plan instead.
No, that logic does not make sense. PA plans are chock full of holes. Get a stroke, become disabled, get zero. Bad, very bad. PA plans are stupid, really. Yes, maybe that's "controversial," but it happens to be true.

People don't like gambling, generally. Having 100% (or 120%) all risks income replacement would be lovely, but there's moral hazard in that, so it's not possible in a private insurance market. Having 75% income replacement is. If you THEN want to play the risk lottery/casino and "top up" with Personal Accident "insurance," hoping that if you become disabled it's because a bus ran you over rather than something random in your head, I guess you could do that. But if you can't work, you can't work. Protecting against that risk, no matter what the cause, is important. Protect that way first, if you can.

By the way, there's no guarantee of 100% income from work. You can be fired at any time. Wages can go up, and they can go down, too. All of the disability income insurance policies mentioned tolerate some bouts of unemployment, usually up to 180 days. One limitation I don't like is that they all exclude stints working outside Singapore, or at least they reserve the right to. The MinDef/MHA policy has a firm "no" when it comes to working outside Singapore -- the coverage ends, full stop, if you do that. The others say, basically, "You must let us know, and we might have a problem with it." I don't like that lack of international portability, and unfortunately it's a common defect around the world and across many lines of insurance.
 
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simplelifez

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What does the "occupation" definition says that made you fall in love at first sight?

I can't explain much on premiums or the minute difference or nibits details.

If you look only at the core definition.
Aia and aviva is either any or suited occupation
Ge is own occupation.

This definition is actually the game changer on how future claims payout will be.

Of course, good thing comes at a price

Everything is priced in, cheapest has its own definition flaws.

I dunno much about the remaining 2 products so can't comment on it
 

BBCWatcher

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I found another disability income insurance product marketed to “expats,” i.e. residents of Country X who are not citizens of Country X. It’s sold by William Russell, and they call it their “Global Income Protection” plan. This policy is suitable for younger workers as well as older since disability payments can continue until normal retirement age. There are 3 and 6 month elimination periods available. Maximum entry age is 55. You can buy up to 75% of your income from work, and they can take commissions into consideration to some extent. Maximum is 144,000 euro per year (12,000 euro per month). (Pounds and U.S. dollars are also available, but at current exchange rates their euro maximum is the highest.) The disability payouts will automatically increase at 2% compounded, to simulate inflation — a nice feature.

I also found their 2017 premium rate schedule. So let’s suppose a 40 year old citizen of Japan living in Singapore wants to assure an income stream of US$4,000 per month in the event she were to become disabled, as the policy defines it. She wants that income stream to continue until age 65, and with the 2% annual increase. With a 6 month elimination period, and according to the 2017 premium table, she would pay US$1070.40/year for that coverage, for reference.

As always, read the policy document very carefully and investigate thoroughly.
 
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