AFTERSHOCK PC - Now featuring Nvidia 10 series graphics cards!

watzup_ken

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going to head down to bendemeer this evening, finally going to see if Aftershock can help look into that boost clock issue that I've been having last time on the newer GPU drivers

Hopefully can find a way to get my 1070 to go back to its typical 1443-1645 mhz clocks, instead of cranking up to 1700-1800 mhz all the time when gaming. The big question mark is to figure out why does the clock speed boost so high when in game settings are raised beyond a certain point (usually high/ultra)

And to be safe probably gonna do repaste as well, seems that since I bought my S17 in 2016, they have since switched their thermal paste from gelid GC extreme to thermal grizzly stuff which supposedly is marginally better (although GPU clock speeds are a pure software thing so my priority will still be figuring out the driver)

UPDATE:
Have decided to leave the S17 with them to further investigate since all preliminary troubleshooting failed to fix the GPU clock speeds

on side note also saw the S17R for the first time
KGMke8L.jpg


like the Prime-15 before it, this design can be rather divisive, not gonna lie I still personally prefer old clevo design aesthetics which were more minimalist, now only the lower-end MX series still has that kind of look

Have not followed this forum for quite some time, but is this a driver related issue? Also, I am not sure if this add on, Nvidia Experience, is the cause for the boost. I believe we could opt out of this previously, but not with the current drivers.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/geforce-experience/
 

chiaRH

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Have not followed this forum for quite some time, but is this a driver related issue? Also, I am not sure if this add on, Nvidia Experience, is the cause for the boost. I believe we could opt out of this previously, but not with the current drivers.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/geforce-experience/

I suspect it is driver related cos in my previous tests, older drivers like from the 382.xx versions (now the latest is 388.xx) seem to function ok

doubt that geforce experience is a factor because I actually dont install geforce experience

so far over there we tried

- total uninstall and reinstall of drivers
- bios update
- switching from MShybrid (which I keep on for optimus) back to discrete

in all cases the GPU still seems to go into overdrive (about a 25% overclock) when ingame settings are set to High or above, while in medium or below, the clock speeds behave more normal

the limitation of the testing is cos i only had 2 games installed (mass effect andromeda, deus ex mankind divided), we couldnt test with other games, although I did confirm that tools like furmark/unigine valley still have normal clockspeeds.


Another limitation is that all the display units at bendemeer are 1060 units so they cant do any A/B testing with their own S17


So right now i left it with them to test my hardware with their hard drive and their OS swapped in, to see if they can replicate the same issue.


My main hope is that its not hardware caused, since the GPU is non-replaceable from the S17 and I would have to RMA it, except I likely wont be able to cos the S17 model I use has been retired. I even mentioned about this before and how I dont buy parts warranty cos even you have 3 year warranty, no guarantee by the 3rd year the manufacturer still got replacement parts by then (i lucked out during the warranty period of my previous aftershock when I couldnt replace a dead 675M due to nvidia)


Although this issue was something i monitored for the past 2 months, i recently tested a 3rd title, final fantasy 14, which had the abnormal overclock even on the old drivers (unlike the other games which was only like that on newer drivers) so now that my previous assumption of the GPU being 'fine' on older drivers is no longer valid, it raises new concern.


Frankly I hope this time round the problem can be troubleshoot easier. During my 675M incident, the stupid BSOD also only crop up when gaming, so aftershock spent 5 days trying unigine heaven on it with no luck to replicate the BSOD but I managed to BSOD on Skyrim. And then found out the 675M couldnt be replaced so I spent 1.5 years with a dead replaceable MXM GPU stuck in my laptop. If I really can be so suay and lost the silicon lottery on clevo's GPU 2 times in a row I think I will have to jump brand for the next machine haha



UPDATE
ok so they managed to replicate the same thing on an entirely separate machine and even on a clean windows OS so I guess nvidia's doing something weird to the S17 somehow that is jacking the clock speeds so high, which means I have to just keep rolling back to earlier and earlier drivers till I find one that doesnt make my games run at 90 celsius

i think when i looked up the 1070 i saw somewhere that the danger threshold is supposed to be like 97 celsius or something but 90 is still pretty uncomfortable to game with. And in my past 2 laptops (asus G73, Afteshock X15) the GPU was the first thing to die so i wanna be more conservative with temps.
 
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Aresden

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just had my bios flashed not long on my m15v2 machine and it seems like there was no more battery options.
Any ways in which I can set my battery to stop charging at 80% when power on?
 

watzup_ken

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I suspect it is driver related cos in my previous tests, older drivers like from the 382.xx versions (now the latest is 388.xx) seem to function ok

doubt that geforce experience is a factor because I actually dont install geforce experience

so far over there we tried

- total uninstall and reinstall of drivers
- bios update
- switching from MShybrid (which I keep on for optimus) back to discrete

in all cases the GPU still seems to go into overdrive (about a 25% overclock) when ingame settings are set to High or above, while in medium or below, the clock speeds behave more normal

the limitation of the testing is cos i only had 2 games installed (mass effect andromeda, deus ex mankind divided), we couldnt test with other games, although I did confirm that tools like furmark/unigine valley still have normal clockspeeds.


Another limitation is that all the display units at bendemeer are 1060 units so they cant do any A/B testing with their own S17


So right now i left it with them to test my hardware with their hard drive and their OS swapped in, to see if they can replicate the same issue.


My main hope is that its not hardware caused, since the GPU is non-replaceable from the S17 and I would have to RMA it, except I likely wont be able to cos the S17 model I use has been retired. I even mentioned about this before and how I dont buy parts warranty cos even you have 3 year warranty, no guarantee by the 3rd year the manufacturer still got replacement parts by then (i lucked out during the warranty period of my previous aftershock when I couldnt replace a dead 675M due to nvidia)


Although this issue was something i monitored for the past 2 months, i recently tested a 3rd title, final fantasy 14, which had the abnormal overclock even on the old drivers (unlike the other games which was only like that on newer drivers) so now that my previous assumption of the GPU being 'fine' on older drivers is no longer valid, it raises new concern.


Frankly I hope this time round the problem can be troubleshoot easier. During my 675M incident, the stupid BSOD also only crop up when gaming, so aftershock spent 5 days trying unigine heaven on it with no luck to replicate the BSOD but I managed to BSOD on Skyrim. And then found out the 675M couldnt be replaced so I spent 1.5 years with a dead replaceable MXM GPU stuck in my laptop. If I really can be so suay and lost the silicon lottery on clevo's GPU 2 times in a row I think I will have to jump brand for the next machine haha



UPDATE
ok so they managed to replicate the same thing on an entirely separate machine and even on a clean windows OS so I guess nvidia's doing something weird to the S17 somehow that is jacking the clock speeds so high, which means I have to just keep rolling back to earlier and earlier drivers till I find one that doesnt make my games run at 90 celsius

i think when i looked up the 1070 i saw somewhere that the danger threshold is supposed to be like 97 celsius or something but 90 is still pretty uncomfortable to game with. And in my past 2 laptops (asus G73, Afteshock X15) the GPU was the first thing to die so i wanna be more conservative with temps.

I believe Nvidia Experience is part of the driver after a certain version. I cannot remember where I read it previously. So with each driver release, the Nvidia Experience software also gets updated with new profiles. Which was what I suspect that could be causing these clockspeed increase in specific games. My suggestion is also to try another brand of laptop to see if the same problem occurs to isolate the possibility of BIOS issue from Clevo. If it happens on another brand, like MSI for example, then you can be sure there is something fishy with the driver/ Nvidia Experience.

As for the inability to upgrade, it happened for my case as well with the GTX 680M. It appears that the MXM slot is not compatible with newer Nvidia cards because I believe was due to higher power requirement. So now I am back to desktop since I realize this supposed "upgradability" is ridden with limitations.
 
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chiaRH

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Sbout geforce experience, it can be optional. Just choose custom install when installing driver and uncheck the geforce experience. Likewise you can also uninstall geforce experience from the windows settings.

My suggestion is also to try another brand of laptop to see if the same problem occurs to isolate the possibility of BIOS issue from Clevo. If it happens on another brand, like MSI for example, then you can be sure there is something fishy with the driver/ Nvidia Experience.

The problem is its not exactly like another laptop is so easy to find lying around for such kind of testing


So far I've tested the S17 after getting it back from them and all that's really been achieved is repaste using the thermal grizzly kryonaut so the temps are down but the syndrome of the clocks being maintained around 1800's persists, just that now instead of 1835mHz at 90 celsius it'd be something like 1835mhz at 80 celsius instead

My final resort for the moment is to use MSI afterburner to control the voltage/frequency curve and reign in the clock speed, however still doesnt change the fact that its just going to boost even when GPU load is not that high, so if I change the max from 1835mhz to 1443mhz it'll just stay at 1443 when gaming and never drop, till the game is closed, or the settings are set to Low or Medium.



Actually I noticed 1 more observation in Afterburner and that is during the period of high clock speeds, GPU Voltage Limit and Power Limit = 1 so it looks like whatever the driver made the GPU do, its maxing out the power draw, maybe its the voltage (power draw) that is the real culprit of the temps.
 
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watzup_ken

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Sbout geforce experience, it can be optional. Just choose custom install when installing driver and uncheck the geforce experience. Likewise you can also uninstall geforce experience from the windows settings.



The problem is its not exactly like another laptop is so easy to find lying around for such kind of testing


So far I've tested the S17 after getting it back from them and all that's really been achieved is repaste using the thermal grizzly kryonaut so the temps are down but the syndrome of the clocks being maintained around 1800's persists, just that now instead of 1835mHz at 90 celsius it'd be something like 1835mhz at 80 celsius instead

My final resort for the moment is to use MSI afterburner to control the voltage/frequency curve and reign in the clock speed, however still doesnt change the fact that its just going to boost even when GPU load is not that high, so if I change the max from 1835mhz to 1443mhz it'll just stay at 1443 when gaming and never drop, till the game is closed, or the settings are set to Low or Medium.



Actually I noticed 1 more observation in Afterburner and that is during the period of high clock speeds, GPU Voltage Limit and Power Limit = 1 so it looks like whatever the driver made the GPU do, its maxing out the power draw, maybe its the voltage (power draw) that is the real culprit of the temps.

The temps improvement as a result of the change in thermal compound sounds too good to be true. I have never seen thermal improvement in double digits. Either the previous thermal compound has dried up or is a really poor compound.

The boost clock is very high actually, considering what you mentioned is higher than the default boost clock on the desktop GTX 1070 that I had previously. I was thinking if it is possible for you to go into those gaming laptop stores and run the same test on the display set. Just so that you can confirm if it is an issue that pertains only to Aftershock/ Clevo units.
 

chiaRH

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The temps improvement as a result of the change in thermal compound sounds too good to be true. I have never seen thermal improvement in double digits. Either the previous thermal compound has dried up or is a really poor compound.

The boost clock is very high actually, considering what you mentioned is higher than the default boost clock on the desktop GTX 1070 that I had previously. I was thinking if it is possible for you to go into those gaming laptop stores and run the same test on the display set. Just so that you can confirm if it is an issue that pertains only to Aftershock/ Clevo units.

Oh yeah about the temps turns out I just wasnt taxing the GPU hard enough, sure I got 80 celsius on mass effect andromeda but something like Deus Ex Mankind Divided brings it up to around 87 celsius.

I reckon if I had just left mass effect running for long enough the temps would probably have climbed high enough

I dont know of any gaming laptop store that would let you hands on their machines to that degree cos obviously it going to involve installing something like GPU Z plus a game on their display unit.


The clock speeds are definitely abnormal and very concerning for the long term life of the machine cos even if it's ok now, it may not be ok in a year's time after the heat took its toll, and by then I can already predict that since the P670RS-G SKU already EOL, I could head down to bendemeer with a dead GPU and be told that it can't be replaced thanks to either clevo or nvidia or someone up the supply chain refusing to keep sufficient long term backup stocks for RMA/warranty/etc.


GPU Z readings for my laptop after 5 mins of Deus Ex mankind divided
https://i.imgur.com/Ak89bdn.gif

And another 5 mins on Deus Ex again after undervolt
https://i.imgur.com/H7GBeIn.gif

When undervolted, if I raise the graphics settings ingame to the point where GPU is taxed to 99% load (easily done via setting a very high MSAA factor) the temps max out at 84-85 celsius. This IMO is still ok compared to the GPU using its stock clocks/voltage whereby the GPU can already shoot above 85 celsius, even when the GPU load is only around 50% (i.e. severely overperforming GPU at the expense of temps).

Originally I tried underclock without undervolting and the reduced clocks actually didnt make the GPU run cooler at all, thats why I begun looking into voltage.
 

giggs23

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Considering between the MX15 Pro and Prime 15. Besides weight and portability, any major difference between the 2? Is it worth the additional bucks for the Prime 15? What about battery life, heat management, etc? Thanks in advance!
 

immortal86

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is the p13 good? seldom see reviews or user for this, thought of getting the basic specs with the Egpu enclosure.

total 1675 wo additional graphics card
 

chiaRH

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Considering between the MX15 Pro and Prime 15. Besides weight and portability, any major difference between the 2? Is it worth the additional bucks for the Prime 15? What about battery life, heat management, etc? Thanks in advance!

The Prime has a 1070 max Q option, that is the biggest difference

the other differences are more trivial like the I/O
 

mac_oasis

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Is it true that Only the P-13 from Aftershock running on 8th Gen Intel? Is the 7th Gen Quad core as power saving as the 8th Gen ?

Sent from Google PIXEL 2 XL using GAGT
 

chiaRH

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Is it true that Only the P-13 from Aftershock running on 8th Gen Intel? Is the 7th Gen Quad core as power saving as the 8th Gen ?

Sent from Google PIXEL 2 XL using GAGT


The P13 uses the i7-8650U which despite its 1st digit, is actually still part of kaby lake.

The only real 8th Gen (coffee lake stuff) CPUs out now are the desktop CPUs so only aftershock's desktop replacements are on 8th gen stuff at the moment.

Around exactly 1 year ago, the mobile kaby lake came out so maybe the mobile coffee lake will be due soon. Of course the release wont be in sync with the release of new GPUs (if any) which tend to show up around Aug-Sep period these few years.

Coffee lake will be the 1st time laptops go beyond 4 cores on intel camp (AMD already got their debut with that asus Ryzen strix model) so thermals and performance for many manufacturers will have to be a new concern
 
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mac_oasis

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The P13 uses the i7-8650U which despite its 1st digit, is actually still part of kaby lake.

The only real 8th Gen (coffee lake stuff) CPUs out now are the desktop CPUs so only aftershock's desktop replacements are on 8th gen stuff at the moment.

Around exactly 1 year ago, the mobile kaby lake came out so maybe the mobile coffee lake will be due soon. Of course the release wont be in sync with the release of new GPUs (if any) which tend to show up around Aug-Sep period these few years.

Coffee lake will be the 1st time laptops go beyond 4 cores on intel camp (AMD already got their debut with that asus Ryzen strix model) so thermals and performance for many manufacturers will have to be a new concern
Great insight and thanks for the explanation.

Sent from Google PIXEL 2 XL using GAGT
 

immortal86

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So basically no point to buy 8th gen Intel laptop now?

Cause read somewhere if connect to egpu, the 8th gen won't bottle neck the performance
 

chiaRH

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So basically no point to buy 8th gen Intel laptop now?

Cause read somewhere if connect to egpu, the 8th gen won't bottle neck the performance

eGPU bottleneck is and always will be thunderbolt's bandwidth. That is a hardware limitation of thunderbolt versus "proper" PCIE and no CPU will be able to make that go away.


By the way the only coffee lake CPUs out now are desktop CPU, not laptop CPU

Those laptop whose CPU model start with '8', they are actually still kaby lake (eg. aftershock P13)

So actually there are no coffee lake gaming laptop CPU. If there were, you will see something like i7-8700HQ but now we are still on i7-7700HQ for all these gaming notebooks. Its not even a matter of no point to buy, rather its not even on market yet.
 
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mac_oasis

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But does the newer kaby lake CPU have better power management than the previous thus the better battery life?

Sent from Google PIXEL 2 XL using GAGT
 

chiaRH

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But does the newer kaby lake CPU have better power management than the previous thus the better battery life?

Sent from Google PIXEL 2 XL using GAGT

how much better can it possibly get if the architecture is still the same

i mean for all we know, it could be less battery life cos these newer 8xxxU cpus got more cores than their predecessors

...also its not as if you can easily find something with earlier CPUs even if you wanted to. When new ones come out, the market updates. Like it or not you're stuck with the latest iteration for better or for worse.

frankly intel's rate of improvement is pretty slow these days so i wouldnt worry about buying an 'inferior' or 'outdated' generation, even 1-2 years older, youre not missing out on much of a benefit, its not like nvidia where we had that massive jump from maxwell to pascal
 
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chiaRH

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https://www.mysn.de/detail.asp?best...gn=affiliate&utm_medium=cpo&utm_content=54264

anyone ever seen this clevo model before? it feels similar to the P950 (our prime-15) but with a more understated design (which I vastly prefer, looking at the Prime 15's lid)

only critique would be that the underside of that model looks a lot less well ventilated compared to prime-15, but if max-q lives up to what nvidia said, heat is not supposed to be a problem (still the manufacturer is responsible to build a competent cooling design)


edit: nevermind, found it. called the P955, this review vid shows a quadro version of the machine unlike the schenker one. indeed it really does look like a more understated and subtle design compared to Prime-15, while having same internal specs (the body is practically 99% same, can tell by how they share the same IO layout). Once volta rolls around and should aftershock refreshes the prime with a P955 chassis i'm totally up for it
 
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goldnut

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Why does their support website suck so much?

http://aftershockpcsupport.com/

Still under construction? Drivers for more than half the models don't even exist. Those that do you need to download the ENTIRE package in one big zip file. God forbid you only need one small motherboard driver and your driver disc is missing. :s22::s22::s22:

Take a look at Acer, HP and Dell support website to see how they do things ffs.
 
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