Medishield Comparison. Find out which is the cheapest

[RockerM]

Hi all, my parents just received the annual renewal of the Medishield and rider from Prudential. In the letter, the annual premium for the rider is $870 and my mum can utilize up to $600 from medisave to offset this $870, leaving $270 for cash payment. However, she is currently paying $50ish per month which comes up to $600+/year. Can anyone clarify if $270/12 = $22.50 should be the amounts she needs to pay for the rider monthly? TIA!

 

[Bigoya]

Hi all, my parents just received the annual renewal of the Medishield and rider from Prudential. In the letter, the annual premium for the rider is $870 and my mum can utilize up to $600 from medisave to offset this $870, leaving $270 for cash payment. However, she is currently paying $50ish per month which comes up to $600+/year. Can anyone clarify if $270/12 = $22.50 should be the amounts she needs to pay for the rider monthly? TIA!

You've clearly got certain stuff mixed up.

Firstly, Medishield is the most basic component that all Singaporeans have whether you like it or not. Then comes the integrated enhancement from Prudential which increases the coverage limits but still subjected to co-insurance and deductible. Finally, the rider portion comes in to waive off co-insurance and deductibles (exact benefits depends on what rider you got).

The $600 is meant to offset the integrated enhancement portion which is payable by CPF, not the rider's premium which is ONLY payable in cash.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Very well explained, Bigoya. I'll add one comment....

Then comes the integrated enhancement from Prudential which increases the coverage limits but still subjected to co-insurance and deductible.

The enhancement and any optional rider are also subject to a couple important exclusions that the insurer specifies. The most important policy exclusion to know about is for most pre-existing conditions -- medical conditions that existed prior to signing up for the policy, especially if known then. MediShield Life coverage (that forms the core foundation of the Integrated Shield plan) does not exclude pre-existing conditions.

Let's suppose for example that somebody is diagnosed with high blood pressure then signs up for an Integrated Shield plan. After signing up for the plan, that person has a heart examination which identifies early stage heart disease. Then, after the heart exam, that person signs up for a rider. Lastly, this person suffers a heart attack, ends up in the hospital, and gets a bypass operation.

In this scenario, the insurer is almost certainly going to deny any claim associated with the rider. The rider simply won't cover hospitalizations related to heart attacks. Heart disease was known before signing up for the rider, so that's pretty clear. The insurer might also be able to deny even claims based on Integrated Shield base coverage, due to the high blood pressure diagnosed before signing up for the base plan. (That part is a little less clear.) Base MediShield Life coverage is still provided, but that level of coverage pays almost nothing relative to the high cost of private hospital care, especially if you stay in a single bedded ward.

For anyone concerned about whether an insurer will be able to deny a claim legitimately, according to the policy terms and conditions, due to your pre-existing condition(s), you might want to consider adjusting your coverage away from private hospital care and/or checking yourself into a public hospital at, say, B1 ward level (or below). That'll help you avoid "sticker shock" (and a second heart attack?) if the insurer were to deny your claim on firm grounds. If the insurer improperly denies your claim, OK, demand review -- different situation.

This is one of those weird "gotcha" ways in which insurance isn't actually insurance but more like a gamble, if you had pre-existing conditions before sign-up (or before upgrading policy tiers, or before changing insurance carriers). And I don't like gambling when I buy insurance. So just watch out for that.

 

[Soul77]

This is one of those weird "gotcha" ways in which insurance isn't actually insurance but more like a gamble, if you had pre-existing conditions before sign-up (or before upgrading policy tiers, or before changing insurance carriers). And I don't like gambling when I buy insurance. So just watch out for that.

That's why I would prefer not to change insurer although my current insurer is currently the most expensive.. My thinking, it's less unlikely for insurer to dig out your 10+ Years medical history as compared to 1+. Is this correct?

 

[radzkal]

is AIA HSG max A and essential A saver the cost effective plan out there for its coverage? personally, i feel like i should downgrade to max B and essential B since i don't think i might go to private hospital in case of any emergencies.

 

[dd_se7en]

May i know if i purchase IP as a foreigner and paid for Medishield premium, say at 1st Feb 2018, and my PR got approved on 1st March 2018, do i need to pay premium to Medishield again?

 

[Bigoya]

May i know if i purchase IP as a foreigner and paid for Medishield premium, say at 1st Feb 2018, and my PR got approved on 1st March 2018, do i need to pay premium to Medishield again?

No clue about the the technical details here, but say u have to double pay (to make CPFB's job easier), you will be refunded the excess again.

 

[LonelyMan]

Hi guys,

Need some input. I am in my late 30s and BMI 31.7. Only have Medishield Life.

I suffered from severe sleep apnea, diagnosed in 2016 June. I was advised to be put on CPAP machine for sleeping, reduce weight. No ops recommended.

In 2008, I felt slight numbness on my right foot, did x ray and they see slight compression of my lower back spine. But currently I do not have any numbness, no previous treatment except for some dose of vitamins from doctor. Last medical consultation was in 2008.

In 2017, I was rejected by Income for the Integrated Private shield.

Questions are:

1. Aviva will definitely exclude my Sleep Apnea under moratorium underwriting since I am using CPAP machine?
2. Would my spine history be excluded under aviva?
3. Would Aviva likely to reject my application due to my weight?
4. How about other issuers with the exception of Income?

 

[Bigoya]

Hi guys,

Need some input. I am in my late 30s and BMI 31.7. Only have Medishield Life.

I suffered from severe sleep apnea, diagnosed in 2016 June. I was advised to be put on CPAP machine for sleeping, reduce weight. No ops recommended.

In 2008, I felt slight numbness on my right foot, did x ray and they see slight compression of my lower back spine. But currently I do not have any numbness, no previous treatment except for some dose of vitamins from doctor. Last medical consultation was in 2008.

In 2017, I was rejected by Income for the Integrated Private shield.

Questions are:

1. Aviva will definitely exclude my Sleep Apnea under moratorium underwriting since I am using CPAP machine?
2. Would my spine history be excluded under aviva?
3. Would Aviva likely to reject my application due to my weight?
4. How about other issuers with the exception of Income?

U can no longer apply for Moratorium once you had history of sub-standard underwriting results.

For exact underwriting results, please do up the proper application(s) and submit to the respective insurers for their evaluation. None of us here (most likely) is going to be the one decide how your case shall be accepted, or otherwise.

 

[Soul77]

In 2017, I was rejected by Income for the Integrated Private shield.

https://www.ifa.sg/question-on-being-rejected-high-bmi-moratorium-underwriting/

Did you apply to Income yourself? Or Agent help you to apply? If the later, then you should probably complain.

 

[BBCWatcher]

May i know if i purchase IP as a foreigner and paid for Medishield premium, say at 1st Feb 2018, and my PR got approved on 1st March 2018, do i need to pay premium to Medishield again?

First of all, foreigners are not covered under MediShield Life. So you're not paying a MediShield Life premium at all, and there's no MediShield Life premium to refund.

You are paying an Integrated Shield premium, as a foreigner, at the foreigner rate. That's purely a private insurance contract. What would happen in a PR conversion is that you'd report that conversion to your Integrated Shield carrier (as the policy obliges you to do, actually), your pro-rated foreigner premium (for the balance of your annual plan) would be refunded, and the carrier would charge you your first year Integrated Shield premium (inclusive of the MediShield Life premium) at the PR rate, and deducted from your (new) CPF Medisave Account. You would be responsible for getting some funds into your Medisave Account to handle that premium, or hypothetically somebody else (another CPF member) could assume premium payment for you, from their MA.

That's assuming you don't want to make any plan changes in terms of the level of coverage. You could also hypothetically downgrade if a lower level Integrated Shield plan is available. Or, hypothetically, you could choose to be covered under only MediShield Life, although I don't recommend that (especially for PRs).

 

[soaresb]

Does anyone know how ip riders are administered? Are they separate from the IP, in the sense that they are paid out from a different pool? I am thinking of discontinuing my rider and just rely on the main IP because of premium increase, but on the other hand, if there's no separate pool for riders, then my IP premium is going to increase anyway due to people on riders "overconsuming" - in a sense those people who don't take on riders are subsidizing those who do - so I might as well stay on with the rider, more bang for the buck right?

 

[exterminazn]

They would be rejected and can’t even claim for their pre existing illness even if you have money to burn. Whereas you look into getting some form of protection in case something were to happen lo

Go look at first page to compare the prices lo, all very transparent one leh

 

[longfart]

For someone who would tend to choose treatment/ward with highest gov subsidies, may I know if the mandatory basic MediShield Life is indeed sufficient?

 

[jiaklormee]

Planning to get a shield plan now, have slip disc diagnosed during NS time (~2011). Condition is ok now with no relapse or pain since 2012.

What would be a good option - full underwriting or Aviva's moratorium? Is it likely that I will be denied coverage if I take up full underwriting?

If I do choose to take up the moratorium, does it mean I will have no insurance coverage during the 5 years waiting period - e.g. if I get *touchwood* cancer during the waiting period, I will not be able to claim from the Aviva policy?

 

[vddgnd]

From my understanding about Aviva moratorium, it is not 5 years no cover for all medical condition.
The 5 years is referring to the pre-existing condition.

#####
Other than the list of permanently excluded pre-existing conditions, pre-existing conditions can be covered after a continuous period of 5 years from the cover start date or reinstatement date or date of upgrade, whichever is later, provided the life assured has NOT in respect of that particular pre-existing condition:
- experienced symptoms;
- sought advice or tests from a doctor or specialist or alternative medicine provider (including checkups for that medical condition);
- required treatment or medication; or
- received treatment or medication.

If at any time, during the 5-year moratorium, the life assured undergoes any of the above, then that particular pre-existing condition shall be permanently excluded under MyShield policy.
#####

Planning to get a shield plan now, have slip disc diagnosed during NS time (~2011). Condition is ok now with no relapse or pain since 2012.

What would be a good option - full underwriting or Aviva's moratorium? Is it likely that I will be denied coverage if I take up full underwriting?

If I do choose to take up the moratorium, does it mean I will have no insurance coverage during the 5 years waiting period - e.g. if I get *touchwood* cancer during the waiting period, I will not be able to claim from the Aviva policy?

 

[vddgnd]

Under moratorium underwriting, no underwriting is required. Any new, unexpected medical conditions arising after commencement of life assured’s coverage will be covered, subject to the terms and conditions of the policy.

From my understanding about Aviva moratorium, it is not 5 years no cover for all medical condition.
The 5 years is referring to the pre-existing condition.

#####
Other than the list of permanently excluded pre-existing conditions, pre-existing conditions can be covered after a continuous period of 5 years from the cover start date or reinstatement date or date of upgrade, whichever is later, provided the life assured has NOT in respect of that particular pre-existing condition:
- experienced symptoms;
- sought advice or tests from a doctor or specialist or alternative medicine provider (including checkups for that medical condition);
- required treatment or medication; or
- received treatment or medication.

If at any time, during the 5-year moratorium, the life assured undergoes any of the above, then that particular pre-existing condition shall be permanently excluded under MyShield policy.
#####

 

[icyboiz]

im from aviva corporate itself. vddgnd is right. for your case assuming that you know that there will not be any treatment/ or seeing doctor/medication with regards to your prexisting conditon for the next 5 years, its better go do moratorium.

if did not undergo the condition(s) listed by vddgnd for 5 years, your pre existing condition (slipdisc) will be covered thereafter.

 

[darkgarnezh]

I'm a recent graduate, and would like to upgrade my medishield as well. I was thinking between public or private, still pretty undecided. Which is recommended for public A ward, fully covered? And which is recommended for private fully covered with riders? Reading that AIA and Prudential would be the best in terms of value?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Which is recommended for public A ward, fully covered?

First of all, Integrated Shield plans, with or without riders, do not provide “full” coverage. They are hospitalization plans, with a bit of pre-/post-hospitalization coverage for outpatient care that’s related to a hospital admission. And that’s about it. There are many other medical expenses they don’t cover. As examples, none of them cover most dental and most vision care.

Second, I do not recommend “fully covered” insurance constructions even within the realm of what Integrated Shield plans and their riders cover. The reason I don’t is that Singapore (for citizens and PRs working in Singapore) has compulsory medical savings, called Medisave. Medisave funds can only be used for base Integrated Shield plans (not riders) and for qualified medical expenses. It is extremely odd to use cash, which could be put to much better and more productive use, to avoid spending some Medisave dollars that can only be spent on medical care. Yes, I know, some people do it, but...extremely odd, and not financially prudent.

Third, the government isn’t going to allow you (soon enough) to choose a zero deductible/zero co-pay rider even if you want to. All Integrated Shield plan riders must, fairly soon, feature at least a 5% co-pay with an annual cap on out-of-pocket expenses for covered services. So maybe, hypothetically, you could get a zero deductible/zero co-pay rider today, but in a couple years you won’t be allowed to keep it.

With that background, my current favorite public hospital A ward Integrated Shield plan is Prudential’s PRUshield Plus. I like its 180/365 day pre-/post-hospitalization coverage period for related outpatient care (tied with AXA in that respect) and its relatively high annual limit. Great Eastern’s public hospital A ward plan has a higher annual limit but shorter window for related outpatient coverage, so I think Prudential wins. There’s a PRUextra Plus Lite rider that you might consider to go along with that base plan, but like all riders you have to pay cash for it. The Lite rider has some merit, given what I described above about false economy with restricted Medisave dollars.

One thing I don’t like about Prudential is that they don’t currently offer an “as charged” public hospital B1 plan as a downgrade option. The only downgrade option is the Standard Plan.

And which is recommended for private fully covered with riders? Reading that AIA and Prudential would be the best in terms of value?

AIA is intriguing for its high annual limit and 13 month/13 month pre-/post-hospitalization outpatient coverage window if you restrict yourself to “in network” medical providers only. If you can live within that restriction, it’s not bad. But I’m not a fan of the private hospital plans right now since the premiums are going to gallop fast ahead, inevitably. It’s just not a well designed medical/insurance sector right now, and it’ll take a number of years to fix that. In particular, I wish AIA (and other carriers) would bite the bullet and introduce pure “in network” plans that just don’t cover out-of-network providers at all. Call them “N plans” or something like that.

....Before you start spending precious dollars on luxury insurance — private hospital plans surely are that — do you already have disability income insurance (DII) and, if you have dependents and cannot self-insure, simple term life insurance?