Manchester United - Theatre of Dreams - Part 33

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vitaminc1231

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Well I hope we win win win win win then. I can never understand some fans who want us get more loses so that JM get sacked kind of support/logic.

they still can, depending on how things develop from here on till next game.
 

Asakura

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i think Martial, Rashford will play against Burnley, probably the kind of opponents they will be allowed to express themselves.
if get a good result, can help to build on their confidence.
pretty much the same reason why Martial started against Brighton.
 

apeape

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I hope Mou sticks to the 3-5-2. Luke Shaw looks great attacking. I think a trio of Bailly, Lindelof and Smalling would be ok, with Matic or Herrera bossing them around. Though its risky once one of the ** gets injured.
 

vitaminc1231

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I hope Mou sticks to the 3-5-2. Luke Shaw looks great attacking. I think a trio of Bailly, Lindelof and Smalling would be ok, with Matic or Herrera bossing them around. Though its risky once one of the ** gets injured.

Actually quite hard...

If you take the back 5 above, and Matic+Fred/Herrera in mid, we are left with 3 positions. We need to fit in LKK and likely Pogba too. So, only left 1 spot for Martial/Rashford/Sanchez/Lingard/Mata to fight it out...

So far, our frontline doesn't really have good chemistry regardless of who we put out...

Redk56H.jpg


Or this

piqFzmJ.jpg
 

vitaminc1231

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From a fan of another team.

Hi. Wolves supporter here. Thought I'd weigh in with a view from the outside.

City is the current benchmark and if you analyse what's happened since Fergie left, it's no surprise that you are not competing with them.

It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.

You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).

When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.

Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.

So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.

Under Mourinho, in the 16/17 season, 17/18 season and so far this season, you have spent around £400m. More than you spent in the 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal, but the way transfer fees have gone since 16/17 this is to be expected. If you compare the spending and factor in the inflation factors over that period, he's actually spent less than they did.

The signings under Mourinho have improved the overall quality of the first XI and squad. Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic would all push to get in City's team when playing at their best. Bailly might too if he wasn't injured all the time.

But over the same period, City have spent £490m, buying in players like Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Jesus, Bernardo Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte and Mendy.

You were already behind City when Mourinho joined and since then, City has spent more money and spent it better. With Guardiola's proven ability to improve players, they are now much further ahead of you than they were when Mourinho took over.

For all his antics and rants, Mourinho is a realist and actually quite an intelligent bloke. He will know all of this already and would have identified that to close the gap on City, you needed 5 top players, with centre back being the biggest priority. So at the start of pre-season, he gives his list to Woodward in the hope of getting them through the door, but he ends up with Dalot and Fred. Meanwhile, City spends £60m on a proven Premier League performer and former winner, widening the gap further.

Bottom line is the recruitment since Fergie left has been dog-**** and if you want to catch City, you need to either spend more than anyone has ever spent in PL history, or try a different, value-based approach like Leicester did and Spurs are doing.

At the moment you are doing neither. If I were Mourinho, I'd be ****ed off too.

That doesn't excuse his behaviour, but looking in from the outside I don't know what Woodward is trying to achieve? Why give Mourinho a new long-term contract if he wasn't going to back him?

Jose is angry because he wants to win and doesn't feel that the club (and Woodward) have the same ambitions. For the manager of the richest club in the world, that must be frustrating. There's no denying that Harry Maguire and Toby Alderwiereld at ** makes your team infinitely better.

Top 4 is the best you can hope for with this collection of players. No manager in the world could win the league with your current squad so I don't see what good sacking Jose will do? Without better players, what's the point?
 

Greysky

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From a fan of another team.

Hi. Wolves supporter here. Thought I'd weigh in with a view from the outside.

City is the current benchmark and if you analyse what's happened since Fergie left, it's no surprise that you are not competing with them.

It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.

You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).

When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.

Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.

So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.

Under Mourinho, in the 16/17 season, 17/18 season and so far this season, you have spent around £400m. More than you spent in the 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal, but the way transfer fees have gone since 16/17 this is to be expected. If you compare the spending and factor in the inflation factors over that period, he's actually spent less than they did.

The signings under Mourinho have improved the overall quality of the first XI and squad. Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic would all push to get in City's team when playing at their best. Bailly might too if he wasn't injured all the time.

But over the same period, City have spent £490m, buying in players like Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Jesus, Bernardo Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte and Mendy.

You were already behind City when Mourinho joined and since then, City has spent more money and spent it better. With Guardiola's proven ability to improve players, they are now much further ahead of you than they were when Mourinho took over.

For all his antics and rants, Mourinho is a realist and actually quite an intelligent bloke. He will know all of this already and would have identified that to close the gap on City, you needed 5 top players, with centre back being the biggest priority. So at the start of pre-season, he gives his list to Woodward in the hope of getting them through the door, but he ends up with Dalot and Fred. Meanwhile, City spends £60m on a proven Premier League performer and former winner, widening the gap further.

Bottom line is the recruitment since Fergie left has been dog-**** and if you want to catch City, you need to either spend more than anyone has ever spent in PL history, or try a different, value-based approach like Leicester did and Spurs are doing.

At the moment you are doing neither. If I were Mourinho, I'd be ****ed off too.

That doesn't excuse his behaviour, but looking in from the outside I don't know what Woodward is trying to achieve? Why give Mourinho a new long-term contract if he wasn't going to back him?

Jose is angry because he wants to win and doesn't feel that the club (and Woodward) have the same ambitions. For the manager of the richest club in the world, that must be frustrating. There's no denying that Harry Maguire and Toby Alderwiereld at ** makes your team infinitely better.

Top 4 is the best you can hope for with this collection of players. No manager in the world could win the league with your current squad so I don't see what good sacking Jose will do? Without better players, what's the point?

recruitment since fergie left is ****. it actually coincides with woody taking over and gill stepping down too.
 

Asakura

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this whole part...
It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.

You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).

When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.

Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.

So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.

if you re-watch one of his 'rants' it was what he meant when he used the word 'heritage'


From a fan of another team.

Hi. Wolves supporter here. Thought I'd weigh in with a view from the outside.

City is the current benchmark and if you analyse what's happened since Fergie left, it's no surprise that you are not competing with them.

It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.

You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).

When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.

Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.

So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.

Under Mourinho, in the 16/17 season, 17/18 season and so far this season, you have spent around £400m. More than you spent in the 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal, but the way transfer fees have gone since 16/17 this is to be expected. If you compare the spending and factor in the inflation factors over that period, he's actually spent less than they did.

The signings under Mourinho have improved the overall quality of the first XI and squad. Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic would all push to get in City's team when playing at their best. Bailly might too if he wasn't injured all the time.

But over the same period, City have spent £490m, buying in players like Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Jesus, Bernardo Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte and Mendy.

You were already behind City when Mourinho joined and since then, City has spent more money and spent it better. With Guardiola's proven ability to improve players, they are now much further ahead of you than they were when Mourinho took over.

For all his antics and rants, Mourinho is a realist and actually quite an intelligent bloke. He will know all of this already and would have identified that to close the gap on City, you needed 5 top players, with centre back being the biggest priority. So at the start of pre-season, he gives his list to Woodward in the hope of getting them through the door, but he ends up with Dalot and Fred. Meanwhile, City spends £60m on a proven Premier League performer and former winner, widening the gap further.

Bottom line is the recruitment since Fergie left has been dog-**** and if you want to catch City, you need to either spend more than anyone has ever spent in PL history, or try a different, value-based approach like Leicester did and Spurs are doing.

At the moment you are doing neither. If I were Mourinho, I'd be ****ed off too.

That doesn't excuse his behaviour, but looking in from the outside I don't know what Woodward is trying to achieve? Why give Mourinho a new long-term contract if he wasn't going to back him?

Jose is angry because he wants to win and doesn't feel that the club (and Woodward) have the same ambitions. For the manager of the richest club in the world, that must be frustrating. There's no denying that Harry Maguire and Toby Alderwiereld at ** makes your team infinitely better.

Top 4 is the best you can hope for with this collection of players. No manager in the world could win the league with your current squad so I don't see what good sacking Jose will do? Without better players, what's the point?
At the moment you are doing neither.
"They have been bouncing from one strategy to another for the last five or six years.

"The traditions at the club went out of the window when they sacked David Moyes, Louis van Gaal after an FA Cup win and appointed Jose Mourinho."

"You're now in a mode of modern football, so the club needs to adapt a modern structure.
-GNev
 

guile

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You don't sack a manager in the begining of the season. United is not a sack manager club, I hope it won't turn into this in the future.

End of the season, it is up to the board to decide to get a new manager or retain the current manager.


Sorry but we have to accept that we already are after sacking 2 managers in 3 seasons. The days of managers lasting 5 years or more have long gone after Wenger left. These are times when top clubs give their manager at the most 3 seasons to win something else their job will be on the line. The higher the stature of the club, the lesser time is given.

Clubs that have not won anything for a long time are more willing to give their managers a chance to slowly build their club according to their own preference as long as they see progress in their league position or Cup competitions. Thus they are more than willing to buy and groom younger talents.

JM does not have the time or luxury especially after winning something in the first season as he has already set the standard and expectations there, thus his only strategy is to buy players at their peak.

It can also be a mismatch in what the club and board wants and what he wants when they sign him. They signed him first and foremost yes to immediately win a cup or some title (quick fix either for fans or sponsors) but they are also hoping that they can change his mind to build the team for the long term future. That's why they are giving him a contract extension saying hey, we want you to stay and build the team for the future. They don't mind not winning anything after the first season as they have already secured the sponsors that can provide the funds for the rebuilding for the long term future.

Jose on the other hand is no longer thinking of the future, he is ambitious and not winning anything in the 2nd season means he wants players who are at their peak and can have an immediate impact to continue winning him something. He's not interested in grooming them to become what they can potentially be because he wants the success now, not 2-3 years later as he knows he will get bored easily and wants a new challenge. He doesn't care about the value of the players to the club years later. Then he looks across to City and finds Pep getting all the players he wanted and winning the titles he wanted and this fuel/angers him even more when the club is not giving him what he wanted to achieve his own goals. Just a season without winning anything is considered too long for him.

If there's a young player that Jose wanted and is available, the club wouldn't mind forking the money out for him, that's why Fred and Dalot was brought in early. But they drew the line when it comes to 29 year olds whose overpriced and their market value will eventually drop and will not likely be featured in the clubs long term future plans. Sanchez is probably as far as they are willing to go and that's only because we swapped a player with him.

Both sides of fans are not wrong, those who backs JM to stay wants him to win cups now regardless of the clubs future, this means continually spending on players at their peak whether or not we win cups/trophies and letting them go for cheap/retire after a couple of years or after JM eventually leaves. (buying success, instant gratification, yolo mentality).

Those who back the board doesn't mind not winning now as long as the future of the club is intact and the club retains its identity of playing attacking football and grooming players. This is the identity and tradition that they are trying to protect, that was painstakingly nurtured over the decades by past managers. That's what we are famous for, but sadly that's slowly being eroded as well by JM and the past 2 managers. Finding the right manager that can do all 3 is not easy, win, play attacking football and groom players.

DM- does not win, play attacking football or groom players
LVG - does not win, does not play attacking football, but grooms players.
JM- used to win, does not play attacking football, does not groom players.

JM needs to do at least 1 of the 3 again soon otherwise he'll be sacked cos at the moment he is not winning, does not play attacking football and does not groom players. LVG managed to do 2 out of 3 after season 2 and still kena sacked because somehow playing attacking football is the highest on top of the list.

Any manager available out there that does all 3? or at least 2 out of 3 at this moment thats available? I can only think of Zidane, he wins, he plays attacking football but does not groom players. But most importantly, he manage to handle a team of stars with egos and getting the best performace out of them.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...inedine-zidane-a-great-manager-or-a-lucky-one
 

Asakura

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not back him to stay, but the board is the one not sacking him.
and since they want him to stay, den of cos he's gonna do it his way.
those who backs JM to stay wants him to win cups now regardless of the clubs future, this means continually spending on players at their peak whether or not we win cups/trophies and letting them go for cheap/retire after a couple of years or after JM eventually leaves. (buying success, instant gratification, yolo mentality).
 

Beefsteak

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iMO Ed Woodward needs to leave too.
Need someone more capable of handling transfers and negotiation.

I think the rot is coming directly from the top.
 
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pawn_king

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actually ed is doing a fantastic job on the other front, bringing in new sponsorships and all.

all we need is a dof/technical director whateva. whom both ed and jose will work well with, and actually knows football stuff/players.
 

#MourinhoOut

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Touch your heart, how many did not laugh at Fernandinho, Sterling, Otamendi, saying them cmi, pre Pep-City era? How many would have chose Fernandinho over Herrera? Sterling over Rashford? Otamendi over Rojo, before Pep came in? Ask mod bring back all the old threads, check how much you laughed at them. Sterling and Otamendi received the most laughings.

Fact is Pep improved his players, so much so that people now think none in the squad pre-JoMo era could get into City squad.
 
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