TFIP IBF Full Stack Development

[davidktw]

David, thanks for sharing so much. I am going to start a career in software development after my studies and have learnt much from your advice and insights.

I agree that mastering programming languages is important especially in today's competitive society. But what is more important is to truly understand how computer science can be applied to solve problems and programming languages are nothing but tools to do so.

Good it helps. Of all things, nothing is more important than “Love What You Do, and Do What You Love”. I always believe in passion is the ultimate driving force to excel in what you do, and it gives you the strength to challenge every obstacles, and imagine the impossible. Be creative and have fun programming

 

[dangerousgaming]

Your career, your choice. If you think learning 2 languages is deem as de-focusing, think about all those programmers before node.js was made available. They all have to juggle at least PHP/ASP/Java and JS at the same time. Those can make it will make it whether 2 or more languages. I am advising you on how you should not just focus one language is mainly because on technique of exposure. However if you think you are on a better route, be my guest. You think I am showing off to you, so be it.

Your problem is not how many languages you are juggling at the moment, do some deeper on thoughts on why you are not catching concepts. I am assure you it has nothing to do with how many languages you are handling. To start off with web development, it is a NORM to handle one client-end language and one server-end language at the same time.

Please be noted, how you fair in your pursue of knowledge is your own doing. I am answering to all these while based on the following post your made earlier



Answer is no, one JS is not enough. It has *ALWAYS* been 2 since a long long time ago. Having Node.JS doesn’t make it less because Node.JS while using JS isn’t applied the same way as how JS is used in the client-end. Start off with PHP with JS and you will realise how fundamentally different the operations in the client end and server end are. That is what you should be learning, it is not the choice of language.

Why I say daniel4165 is on the right track? He is not learning a language only. He is learning Computer Science. This is the main thing and the only thing that will give you leverage as a software developer. You think I am trying to kid you with my years of experiences in this industry guiding and training juniors in my firm?

If the need to learn 2 languages at one time for web dev arises, I will definitely go and do so. But right now if you look at the job description I wrote above, they mainly just say React, which I haven’t see the point yet of learning any server side stuff. Maybe it’s because I don’t know it’s needed yet but eventually I will get to learning it, but not right now as I don’t have time.

And also I’m mainly talking about getting a job first as someone without a fancy CS degree or related like you most probably have. You think any company is gonna take us non-cs degree holders seriously if we don’t have some sort of projects to show off? So company xyz is gonna hire me just because I accumulated knowledge by watching youtube videos about computer science concepts?

And if I don’t meet the requirements set by the company, how am I supposed to write or read any code on the job immediately after I am employed? Then why not they just put “0 experience need with any language or knowledge about frameworks, only computer science privileged people need apply”?

And please you were definitely showing off. I don’t know how many programmers I’ve worked with who look down on people who have no programming knowledge like we are some kind of animal who can only move and fart. All of yall think you know so much that you are better than the rest and validated by the high salary that you earn.

And why separate jobs for frontend and backend then? Why not just hire full stack computer science degree holders only everywhere?

 

[davidktw]

If the need to learn 2 languages at one time for web dev arises, I will definitely go and do so. But right now if you look at the job description I wrote above, they mainly just say React, which I haven’t see the point yet of learning any server side stuff. Maybe it’s because I don’t know it’s needed yet but eventually I will get to learning it, but not right now as I don’t have time.

And also I’m mainly talking about getting a job first as someone without a fancy CS degree or related like you most probably have. You think any company is gonna take us non-cs degree holders seriously if we don’t have some sort of projects to show off? So company xyz is gonna hire me just because I accumulated knowledge by watching youtube videos about computer science concepts?

And if I don’t meet the requirements set by the company, how am I supposed to write or read any code on the job immediately after I am employed? Then why not they just put “0 experience need with any language or knowledge about frameworks, only computer science privileged people need apply”?

And please you were definitely showing off. I don’t know how many programmers I’ve worked with who look down on people who have no programming knowledge like we are some kind of animal who can only move and fart. All of yall think you know so much that you are better than the rest and validated by the high salary that you earn.

And why separate jobs for frontend and backend then? Why not just hire full stack computer science degree holders only everywhere?

If you think I am showing off because of what I have advise you, be my guest. The one struggling is you, not me. So if you think while you are struggling and you want to stick with your way of learning. Go ahead and carry on dude.

I think you don’t need what is right and proven working among people I know and have worked with. You feel ur way is right and for whatever reason that you just want to justify why something not following your way is less credible.

If that is the case, then do what you think is right. Don’t take the course that requires you to study C#(or a 2nd language). I am definitely not the one needing any help right now, so yah. 忠言逆耳，Good luck to you

 

[dangerousgaming]

If you think I am showing off because of what I have advise you, be my guest. The one struggling is you, not me. So if you think while you are struggling and you want to stick with your way of learning. Go ahead and carry on dude.

I think you don’t need what is right and proven working among people I know and have worked with. You feel ur way is right and for whatever reason that you just want to justify why something not following your way is less credible.

If that is the case, then do what you think is right. Don’t take the course that requires you to study C#(or a 2nd language). I am definitely not the one needing any help right now, so yah. 忠言逆耳，Good luck to you

Aiya please la don’t act nice and be sarcastic. Not everybody have the chance to get the fancy cs degree like you do and get into the position you are now. And thanks for making me feel stupid sounding like you’re sitting on a cloud so high nobody can touch you. You can’t even answer my questions and straight away jump to conclusions that I am not taking your advice. I’m not saying I’m right, I just want to confirm things before I change my way of things.

 

[davidktw]

Aiya please la don’t act nice and be sarcastic. Not everybody have the chance to get the fancy cs degree like you do and get into the position you are now. And thanks for making me feel stupid sounding like you’re sitting on a cloud so high nobody can touch you. You can’t even answer my questions and straight away jump to conclusions that I am not taking your advice. I’m not saying I’m right, I just want to confirm things before I change my way of things.

Carry on dude. Am I nice to u, you are thinking too much. You are just yet another stranger. Don’t want the advice, feel free to wander on your own. lolx. Stupidity is not something that is invited

 

[pumpdump]

If the need to learn 2 languages at one time for web dev arises, I will definitely go and do so. But right now if you look at the job description I wrote above, they mainly just say React, which I haven’t see the point yet of learning any server side stuff. Maybe it’s because I don’t know it’s needed yet but eventually I will get to learning it, but not right now as I don’t have time.

And also I’m mainly talking about getting a job first as someone without a fancy CS degree or related like you most probably have. You think any company is gonna take us non-cs degree holders seriously if we don’t have some sort of projects to show off? So company xyz is gonna hire me just because I accumulated knowledge by watching youtube videos about computer science concepts?

And if I don’t meet the requirements set by the company, how am I supposed to write or read any code on the job immediately after I am employed? Then why not they just put “0 experience need with any language or knowledge about frameworks, only computer science privileged people need apply”?

And please you were definitely showing off. I don’t know how many programmers I’ve worked with who look down on people who have no programming knowledge like we are some kind of animal who can only move and fart. All of yall think you know so much that you are better than the rest and validated by the high salary that you earn.

And why separate jobs for frontend and backend then? Why not just hire full stack computer science degree holders only everywhere?

Let me give u a piece of advice. You won’t go far in life if you want to continue adopting this mindset/attitude, which is why cs people would want to look down on u in the first place. I am sure if u r driven enough to turn urself into a cs person, the only thing u will get in return is respect. I have seen many people like yourself who is always comparing themselves with cs major and making excuses, instead of honing their craft.. Yes, cs majors had a headstart. But this does not mean u cannot catch up to them if u want to. But first, u have to accept that in the dynamic IT industry, u r expected to know multiple languages to even start a career. It is no longer like the past where knowing just Java for e.g. can bring u far.

 

[dangerousgaming]

Let me give u a piece of advice. You won’t go far in life if you want to continue adopting this mindset/attitude, which is why cs people would want to look down on u in the first place. I am sure if u r driven enough to turn urself into a cs person, the only thing u will get in return is respect. I have seen many people like yourself who is always comparing themselves with cs major and making excuses, instead of honing their craft.. Yes, cs majors had a headstart. But this does not mean u cannot catch up to them if u want to. But first, u have to accept that in the dynamic IT industry, u r expected to know multiple languages to even start a career. It is no longer like the past where knowing just Java for e.g. can bring u far.

Ya all you people act like you are some wise old 100 year man who have seen it all and like to give advise like you are better than others. I’ve seen it all, kids who are 15 giving advice, 25, 35, 45... When none of you actually listen. All you do is talk more than you listen. And pls la you living in some dream world issit, sounds like you are 15 years old. The hr of many companies would just filter out non cs degree in one go. Do you know how many resumes they have to go through per second?

Edit: I know a few people who got into banks knowing nothing but just java and earning a decent salary.

 

[davidktw]

Let me give u a piece of advice. You won’t go far in life if you want to continue adopting this mindset/attitude, which is why cs people would want to look down on u in the first place. I am sure if u r driven enough to turn urself into a cs person, the only thing u will get in return is respect. I have seen many people like yourself who is always comparing themselves with cs major and making excuses, instead of honing their craft.. Yes, cs majors had a headstart. But this does not mean u cannot catch up to them if u want to. But first, u have to accept that in the dynamic IT industry, u r expected to know multiple languages to even start a career. It is no longer like the past where knowing just Java for e.g. can bring u far.

Forget it We have Mr/Miss self proclaimed “Average” talking like he/she knows exactly what he/she need in the industry. Let him/her be.
He/She is successful, not our earnings. He/She flop, also his/her own doing. Just let him/her be

It is funny nowadays some people don’t even know how to count and make simple logical assessment and want to show off how much he/she knows about the situation.

>decade worth of industrial experience versus someone not even in the industry, but the experience one should agree to the novice. Hmm...... that is really some sort of odd ball mathematics, probably in a mirror dimension. lolx

 

[dangerousgaming]

Forget it We have Mr/Miss self proclaimed “Average” talking like he/she knows exactly what he/she need in the industry. Let him/her be.
He/She is successful, not our earnings. He/She flop, also his/her own doing. Just let him/her be

It is funny nowadays some people don’t even know how to count and make simple logical assessment and want to show off how much he/she knows about the situation.

>decade worth of industrial experience versus someone not even in the industry, but the experience one should agree to the novice. Hmm...... that is really some sort of odd ball mathematics, probably in a mirror dimension. lolx

Who says that I am not gonna take your advice? For a self proclaimed pro advisor you sure don’t listen or read enough to my previous replies. I said that you haven’t enough answer enough of my previous doubts yet and you just jumped to conclusions that I’m like you a deaf old man who only knows how to talk and not listen. What a total tool. Even though your comments are rude at least I have the sense to consider the logic behind what you are saying and not like you who don’t even listen to what people are saying. Had enough of these old man who just talk and don’t listen.

 

[davidktw]

Who says that I am not gonna take your advice? For a self proclaimed pro advisor you sure don’t listen or read enough to my previous replies. I said that you haven’t enough answer enough of my previous doubts yet and you just jumped to conclusions that I’m like you a deaf old man who only knows how to talk and not listen. What a total tool. Even though your comments are rude at least I have the sense to consider the logic behind what you are saying and not like you who don’t even listen to what people are saying. Had enough of these old man who just talk and don’t listen.

Edit: Don’t even know who the f this pumpdump is why should I take his advice? Could be a 15 year old trying to act all wise and mighty for all I know.

Oh yeah yeah yeah you are going to do what you are going to do. Yawn, be my guest

 

[frozened]

Carry on dude. Am I nice to u, you are thinking too much. You are just yet another stranger. Don’t want the advice, feel free to wander on your own. lolx. Stupidity is not something that is invited

quick question davidktw,

what was your sequence in learning programming language if you dont mind sharing?

i just started cs50 too after reading your comments, i must say it is a really good online programme. it totally changed the sequence in which i intend to learn programming.

for me i started out coding as a hobby so i never really thought of delving more into programming until now.

some history for myself off my mind.
1999 - html
2001 - html/css
2012 - html/css bootstrap/jquery/node.js
2015 - html5/css bootstrap/jquery/node.js/vue.js
2016 - html5/css bootstrap/jquery/react.js/vue.js/node.js

presently, i'm considering starting out more towards the basics of programming.

Learning C > C# > C++ > Python

then moving back to more web related languages like sql, php.

also i'm not in the industry thus far, but am considering a career switch because i like to code more than design ux/ui.

Any other courses you'd recommend?

 

[davidktw]

quick question davidktw,

what was your sequence in learning programming language if you dont mind sharing?

i just started cs50 too after reading your comments, i must say it is a really good online programme. it totally changed the sequence in which i intend to learn programming.

for me i started out coding as a hobby so i never really thought of delving more into programming until now.

some history for myself off my mind.
1999 - html
2001 - html/css
2012 - html/css bootstrap/jquery/node.js
2015 - html5/css bootstrap/jquery/node.js/vue.js
2016 - html5/css bootstrap/jquery/react.js/vue.js/node.js

presently, i'm considering starting out more towards the basics of programming.

Learning C > C# > C++ > Python

then moving back to more web related languages like sql, php.

also i'm not in the industry thus far, but am considering a career switch because i like to code more than design ux/ui.

Any other courses you'd recommend?

I started off programming like roughly 30 years ago, when computer are still IBM XT/AT, so the sequence probably wouldn’t applies these days. If you wanted to know, I started on my own with GW BASIC, C and assembly. My formal CS training started in JC with Turbo Pascal, PHP and C++ on my own, then JAVA in Uni as another formal training. During my Uni, I also picked up Lambda Calculus, Javascript, Haskell, more advance C on Unix environment, shell scripts (Bash), JVM assembly using Jasmin. In work, I further learn on Perl, Groovy, more advanced Javascript. Throughout my entire education and career, learning more languages is not really the focus. It is only important during the start having you need to speak a language to converse in that “universe” or environment. Thereafter the knowledge to acquired is far beyond just syntax and semantics. During my uni, I also took courses on Programming Languages and Compiler Design, to understand further on how languages are designed and built. How they get translated from high level intent into low level assembly codes.

What I want to share ultimately is programming language, while important, is not really what you should be placing so much focus on. There are fundamentals in CS that are used everywhere like Data Structures, Algorithms, and Methodologies. When attending a course on Programming, Software Development, or Computer Science, what you really wanted to absorb is the technique of moving around in this space. How to solve problem with all the knowledges made available to you. Don’t just focus so much on one thing, because ultimately what is going to shape you as a practitioner is how much knowledge exposure you have.

Why would I say one programming language is unnecessarily is because when you don’t understand certain concept in one language, you might find it easier to understand in another language. It is untrue to assume a person can only do well and focus well in one language. Look at your real life experience, are you only taught one language? Did one language brings you the sufficient cultures exposure to your real world? English poetries gives you insight to one part of humanity, while Mandarin poetries are beautiful in other manners. It is the cultures that you want to be exposed to because cultures brings you to unexpected places that you don’t even know they exists.

If you are starting out these days, web technologies has a very large reach. Hence I will say popular and valuable languages at the moment will be not in particular sequence: Python, Javascript, Typescript, C#, Java, Swift. These languages will give you quite fair bit of versatility. However like i have mentioned, don’t limit yourself to just languages. They wouldn’t teach you about algorithms and data structures, they also won’t teach you about testing frameworks, database and networks, development deployment cycles, OS and platforms, and many many more.

If you really want to enter this industry and stay in it, bring passion along. Learn Computer Science, learn technologies, be unbiased with importance of stuff. My versatility don’t come with just knowing technologies, you will want to be able to appreciate Art like videography, photography, sciences and mathematics which are very general but they open up your mind to what is possible and what are the futures. In this way, you will always open up new areas to venture that you have never imagine before.

Hygiene courses like networking, database design, OS and platforms, parallel and distributed programming, computer graphics, data structures and algorithms are necessary in basic CS. If you want to indulge, then you can learn more on Machine Learning, IoT, Data Science.

In your case, get started first and built a strong foundation. 欲速则不达。

 

[NewChap]

Did anyone receive their offer already? Was told end of Jun or early Jul we will be informed of the result, looks like it's gonna be mid or late Jul now

 

[55665566]

Did you got interview invitation?

 

[NewChap]

Nope, not even assessment result.

 

[frozened]

My status still under evaluation. But I got an offer for another pcp track

 

[tyrtok]

My status still under evaluation. But I got an offer for another pcp track

which pcp?

 

[nniicckkyy]

Just received an email to go down for an interview with sponsoring bank. Think they took slightly longer to process through the large volume of applicants, hence the delay. But who knows.

 

[skygeek]

Congrats for receiving interview callup.. can I ask u already been doing software development for quite some?

 

[pumpdump]

Just received an email to go down for an interview with sponsoring bank. Think they took slightly longer to process through the large volume of applicants, hence the delay. But who knows.

I received it too. Congrats and all the best! May the force be with us. Haha.