Woodleigh Residence, Park Colonial, The Tre Ver

drkcynic

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Actually it's interesting you guys mentioned PC as a more value buy than WLR.

PC is around 1700-1800psf now. WLR is about 1800-1900psf now.

But if we look at the prices of some integrated condos like watertown for example. Currently selling at 1300-1400 psf. A treasure trove, which is distanced almost like PC to WLR is selling 1100-1200psf. This shows there is still a premium to be paid for integrated and directly above mrt developments around the same age. If watertown prices don't move, a treasure trove price will never move. Their fate are directly intertwined.

People call PC a "value buy" and WLR overpriced. But actual fact is, if WLR continues to stay at 1800-1900psf upon TOP for example, PC can never move anywhere near 1900psf. They are also doomed to the same fate of near to no profit.

The only hope of PC earning anywhere near 2000psf and thus a decent profit is for WLR to move to 2100-2200psf. Meaning logically ONLY if WLR makes a profit, will PC make a profit.

Think of that for a minute and then rethink the "PC is a value buy and WLR is overpriced" statement.
 
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NiShiZhu

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Actually it's interesting you guys mentioned PC as a more value buy than WLR.

PC is around 1700-1800psf now. WLR is about 1800-1900psf now.

But if we look at the prices of some integrated condos like watertown for example. Currently selling at 1300-1400 psf. A treasure trove, which is distanced almost like PC to WLR is selling 1100-1200psf. This shows there is still a premium to be paid for integrated and directly above mrt developments around the same age. If watertown prices don't move, a treasure trove price will never move. Their fate are directly intertwined.

People call PC a "value buy" and WLR overpriced. But actual fact is, if WLR continues to stay at 1800-1900psf upon TOP for example, PC can never move anywhere near 1900psf. They are also doomed to the same fate of near to no profit.

The only hope of PC earning anywhere near 2000psf and thus a decent profit is for WLR to move to 2100-2200psf. Meaning logically ONLY if WLR makes a profit, will PC make a profit.

Think of that for a minute and then rethink the "PC is a value buy and WLR is overpriced" statement.

I concur with u to certain extent and felt that WLR suddenly become a value buy after seeing SKG sold at average 17xxpsf. But need to draw your attention to the following:

1. Park colonial was launched at 16xxpsf to 1700psf in the beginning, later then increase price. I believe most park colonial buyers have already benefitted from Lower entry psf in the beginning.
2. WLR started with an insane price of 2xxxpsf, now still about the same for those premium lake facing units. The 17xxpsf-18xxpsf units are those outward road facing.
3. Park colonial owners to get to woodleigh shopping mall is never a hassle as there’s an underground walkway direct access to the mall (correct me if I’m wrong).
4. I prefer the layout and finishing of PC compared to WLR. In WLR, I have pointed out some of the cheaper 2 bedder layout looks weird with dinning near the balcony and living in the middle. These are probably the 17xxpsf to 1800psf units.

Yes, u r right to say A treasure trove and Parc centros price are subdued by Watertown’s price.
Probably becos ATT and Parc centros owners has no covered/sheltered walkway or underpass to get to the mall/mrt.
 
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drkcynic

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I concur with u to certain extent and felt that WLR suddenly become a value buy after seeing SKG sold at average 17xxpsf. But need to draw your attention to the following:

1. Park colonial was launched at 16xxpsf to 1700psf in the beginning, later then increase price. I believe most park colonial buyers have already benefitted from Lower entry psf in the beginning.
2. WLR started with an insane price of 2xxxpsf, now still about the same for those premium lake facing units. The 17xxpsf-18xxpsf units are those outward road facing.
3. Park colonial owners to get to woodleigh shopping mall is never a hassle as there’s an underground walkway direct access to the mall (correct me if I’m wrong).
4. I prefer the layout and finishing of PC compared to WLR. In WLR, I have pointed out some of the cheaper 2 bedder layout looks weird with dinning near the balcony and living in the middle. These are probably the 17xxpsf to 1800psf units.

Yes, u r right to say A treasure trove and Parc centros price are subdued by Watertown’s price.
Probably becos ATT and Parc centros owners has no covered/sheltered walkway or underpass to get to the mall/mrt.

1. Yes agree but that price is gone so it's better we discuss it based on what it is now. Also I am basing on average psf because it is hard to pinpoint what was sold at a cheaper rate. I am also not sure if they were the more inferior units. If someone bought good units at 1600-1700 psf in PC, then more power to them for having the foresight back then.

2. Same as point 1, I can only say for WLR, you pay what you get. For the lowest psf of 17xx, those are the least desirable units and for 23xx, those are the best units etc. I am not too sure if that is the case for PC.

But I would also like to point out valuation is very much based on averaging. A 17xx 2 bedder with bad facing would receive a bump in sell price from a 18xx 2 bedder with good facing upon selling. Meaning if good facing sells at 19xx 3 years later, the bad facing will receive a valuation around there. Whether anyone will buy the bad facing 2 bedder at 19xx is another matter but at least valuation means the potential buyer will be able to get loan approved based on higher sell price and that is a plus point.

3. I agree to a certain extent if there is indeed an underground walkway. But i still maintain WLR will hold a premium over PC in sell price regardless.

4. Layout and finishing is underrated. It is never in the consideration of valuation for example. And also beauty is in the eye of the beholder so i can't really put a value to this. So i maintain the stand that PC will never surpass WLR in sell price on average.
 

tanjiakpeng

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Comparing based on what it is now (PC: 17xxk vs WLR: 18xxk) is not comparing apples to apples.

Comparing what is in the future and how it will sell in the secondary market is more impt. PC sellers have way more buffer and exactly the same value proposition.

PC is my choice for the 2
 

NiShiZhu

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1. Yes agree but that price is gone so it's better we discuss it based on what it is now. Also I am basing on average psf because it is hard to pinpoint what was sold at a cheaper rate. I am also not sure if they were the more inferior units. If someone bought good units at 1600-1700 psf in PC, then more power to them for having the foresight back then.

Case study:
Cousin bought a unit in PC at 17xxpsf not too Long ago, high floor, greenery unblock quiet facing. She chooses PC over WLR because at 17xxpsf, she gets better facing in PC than WLR. Your prospective buyers may have the same concerns given the fact that most of us wants to have a quiet serene facing and no one wants to face the noisy/dusty road. Accessibility to mall/mrt betw the two not much difference to her. Just an underpass away.



2. Same as point 1, I can only say for WLR, you pay what you get. For the lowest psf of 17xx, those are the least desirable units and for 23xx, those are the best units etc. I am not too sure if that is the case for PC.

PC highest psf are those pool/landscape facing units, hovers around 1.8 to 1.9kpsf. I believe WLR premium stack lake facing still hovers above 2.2-2.3kpsf, particularly the larger size units. Interestingly, we hardly see any bigger premium units transacting for WLR for the past 6months and I believe it’s due to its high psf and quantum compared to PC.

But I would also like to point out valuation is very much based on averaging. A 17xx 2 bedder with bad facing would receive a bump in sell price from a 18xx 2 bedder with good facing upon selling. Meaning if good facing sells at 19xx 3 years later, the bad facing will receive a valuation around there. Whether anyone will buy the bad facing 2 bedder at 19xx is another matter but at least valuation means the potential buyer will be able to get loan approved based on higher sell price and that is a plus point.

Valuation is based on recent/latest market transact prices. My concern is how sellable Is WLR compared to PC during the resale stage. WLR premium stack hardly moves from what I know. The only units that are moving are the smaller units. On the other hand, PC saw a more consistent sales for all unit types.
Strangely, even SKG is now selling 17xxpsf, WLR did not see any surge in sales, something that puzzles me.


3. I agree to a certain extent if there is indeed an underground walkway. But i still maintain WLR will hold a premium over PC in sell price regardless.

Yes, logically it should be the way since it’s a integrated dev with all convenience at doorstep.
My only concern is, why units are not moving fast despite SKG 17xxpsf launch price? Logically, I would expect SKG to help WLR to move more units. However it’s not happening right now.


4. Layout and finishing is underrated. It is never in the consideration of valuation for example. And also beauty is in the eye of the beholder so i can't really put a value to this. So i maintain the stand that PC will never surpass WLR in sell price on average.

Not true. Layout and finishing still matters to me and most buyers. There’s this saying “never buy the worst unit even in the best location.” Selling would be tough in future. Who wants to buy a unit with direct road facing or generator room/rubbish chute facing despite its valuation is bumped up by its Good locality. As a buyer looking for resale, I’m spoilt with choice to choose the best facing unit especially when price is negotiable in resale market.

Well, we can agree to disagree.
 
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NiShiZhu

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Comparing based on what it is now (PC: 17xxk vs WLR: 18xxk) is not comparing apples to apples.

Comparing what is in the future and how it will sell in the secondary market is more impt. PC sellers have way more buffer and exactly the same value proposition.

PC is my choice for the 2

I agree.

Two disclaimer:
But not when after PC increase price. Because future cap gain will be limited as well.
Unless WLR premium stack decrease price.
 
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drkcynic

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Comparing based on what it is now (PC: 17xxk vs WLR: 18xxk) is not comparing apples to apples.

Comparing what is in the future and how it will sell in the secondary market is more impt. PC sellers have way more buffer and exactly the same value proposition.

PC is my choice for the 2

Question to you is, if WLR sells at an average of 1800psf in 3 years time, do you think PC will sell at 1900psf or even match it at 1800psf? It is highly unlikely, which confirms it's status as an "inferior" project in terms of selling price to WLR.

The buffer you mentioned will not be relevant because I think we will objectively agree that the selling price of WLR will be 100-200psf higher on average to PC at any point of time. Unless you have reasons to believe otherwise.
 

drkcynic

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1. Yes agree but that price is gone so it's better we discuss it based on what it is now. Also I am basing on average psf because it is hard to pinpoint what was sold at a cheaper rate. I am also not sure if they were the more inferior units. If someone bought good units at 1600-1700 psf in PC, then more power to them for having the foresight back then.

Case study:
Cousin bought a unit in PC at 17xxpsf not too Long ago, high floor, greenery unblock quiet facing. She chooses PC over WLR because at 17xxpsf, she gets better facing in PC than WLR. Your prospective buyers may have the same concerns given the fact that most of us wants to have a quiet serene facing and no one wants to face the noisy/dusty road. Accessibility to mall/mrt betw the two not much difference to her. Just an underpass away.



2. Same as point 1, I can only say for WLR, you pay what you get. For the lowest psf of 17xx, those are the least desirable units and for 23xx, those are the best units etc. I am not too sure if that is the case for PC.

PC highest psf are those pool/landscape facing units, hovers around 1.8 to 1.9kpsf. I believe WLR premium stack lake facing still hovers above 2.2-2.3kpsf, particularly the larger size units. Interestingly, we hardly see any bigger premium units transacting for WLR for the past 6months and I believe it’s due to its high psf and quantum compared to PC.

But I would also like to point out valuation is very much based on averaging. A 17xx 2 bedder with bad facing would receive a bump in sell price from a 18xx 2 bedder with good facing upon selling. Meaning if good facing sells at 19xx 3 years later, the bad facing will receive a valuation around there. Whether anyone will buy the bad facing 2 bedder at 19xx is another matter but at least valuation means the potential buyer will be able to get loan approved based on higher sell price and that is a plus point.

Valuation is based on recent/latest market transact prices. My concern is how sellable Is WLR compared to PC during the resale stage. WLR premium stack hardly moves from what I know. The only units that are moving are the smaller units. On the other hand, PC saw a more consistent sales for all unit types.
Strangely, even SKG is now selling 17xxpsf, WLR did not see any surge in sales, something that puzzles me.


3. I agree to a certain extent if there is indeed an underground walkway. But i still maintain WLR will hold a premium over PC in sell price regardless.

Yes, logically it should be the way since it’s a integrated dev with all convenience at doorstep.
My only concern is, why units are not moving fast despite SKG launch price? I would expect SKG to help WLR to move more units.


4. Layout and finishing is underrated. It is never in the consideration of valuation for example. And also beauty is in the eye of the beholder so i can't really put a value to this. So i maintain the stand that PC will never surpass WLR in sell price on average.

Not true. Layout and finishing still matters to me and most buyers. There’s this saying “never buy the worst unit even in the best district.” Selling would be tough in future. Who wants to buy a unit with direct road facing or generator room facing despite its valuation is bumped up by its Good locality. As a buyer looking for resale, I’m spoilt with choice to choose the best facing unit especially when pice is negotiable in resale market.

Well, we can agree to disagree.

I based my views on past transactions and overall picture to be totally objective. That's why i brought up treasure trove/watertown versus PC/WLR.

Human factors I do understand plays a part but it is hardly possible to predict. So your cousin bought what and this and that is really not a good indication at all imo.

Yes agree to disagree.
 

tanjiakpeng

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Question to you is, if WLR sells at an average of 1800psf in 3 years time, do you think PC will sell at 1900psf or even match it at 1800psf? It is highly unlikely, which confirms it's status as an "inferior" project in terms of selling price to WLR.

The buffer you mentioned will not be relevant because I think we will objectively agree that the selling price of WLR will be 100-200psf higher on average to PC at any point of time. Unless you have reasons to believe otherwise.
Good question, my view is if WLR is selling at 18xxpsf in 3yrs time, that is an average 200psf drop from 2xxxk average (taking the average of **** facing units at 17xxk and best facing at 23xxk), it should still maintain a premium to PC.

However, the price risk we are managing is the risk of losing less. The premium peg of WLR is all driven by a higher probability of an integrated development selling higher, but your downside risk is higher than PC. High risk, high returns and high risk of loss too for WLR.

PC is the more conservative option because we shouldnt only discuss about psf as we are crossing 17xxk and 2xxxk terms. This is a RCR project nestled at the fringe to OCR. For a 1000sqft unit 3BR it is pricing at 1.7m-2m. The quantum is huge and it's anyone's guess if buyers continue to bite. A lower quantum is how price risk is managed, that is why we continue to see smaller units with higher psf and it makes it more palatable to buyers.

At these prices, given PC is so sold already, Parc Esta is actually the better buy.
 

drkcynic

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Good question, my view is if WLR is selling at 18xxpsf in 3yrs time, that is an average 200psf drop from 2xxxk average (taking the average of **** facing units at 17xxk and best facing at 23xxk), it should still maintain a premium to PC.

However, the price risk we are managing is the risk of losing less. The premium peg of WLR is all driven by a higher probability of an integrated development selling higher, but your downside risk is higher than PC. High risk, high returns and high risk of loss too for WLR.

PC is the more conservative option because we shouldnt only discuss about psf as we are crossing 17xxk and 2xxxk terms. This is a RCR project nestled at the fringe to OCR. For a 1000sqft unit 3BR it is pricing at 1.7m-2m. The quantum is huge and it's anyone's guess if buyers continue to bite. A lower quantum is how price risk is managed, that is why we continue to see smaller units with higher psf and it makes it more palatable to buyers.

At these prices, given PC is so sold already, Parc Esta is actually the better buy.

You made a good point on the quantum, the money outlay. Even though psf is slightly lower for PC, it's 3 bed is slightly bigger. So when you compare quantum, you are paying same price of say 1.8-2m for PC or WLR 3 bedders in 2023. Then it will be up to individual buyers to decide convenience or size if they can afford 1.8-2m. I still think WLR will be a better bet since subconsicously in people's mind you are paying same price for more convenience.

Parc Esta has too many units for me. Personally don't have favourable views on such estates, not exclusive enough for me. Jadescape also huge development got fire sale.
 

iguysphone

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Go for it bro... tre ver has the best location among the three... in my opinion.

When it comes to things like own stay, your best location differs from other people's best location. =D

What matters is you are happy about it.

The price does reflect its location compared to others.
 

OMK078

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anyone owners purchased Park Colonial block-8 got notifications from banks & lawyers that owner should start to pay monthly installments? Thank you.
 

NiShiZhu

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Never expecting any crash but 10% further discount coming..

Save some money and join in the fun end 2020.

sell u a plate of chicken rice for $30 then give u 10% discount, would u still buy from me? Maybe give u additional 10% discount u will worship developer like god?
The real fun in flipping property happens 15 years ago and u have already missed the fun. :s13: :s13:
 
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holasingapura

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sell u a plate of chicken rice for $30 then give u 10% discount, would u still buy from me? Maybe give u additional 10% discount u will worship developer like god?
The real fun in flipping property happens 15 years ago and u have already missed the fun. :s13: :s13:

Bo pian, 15 years ago i only 6yo, only building lego houses. Luckily still can watch parents flip.
 
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