Hunt for thinnest, bassiest passive bookshelf speakers for 2.1 desktop setup

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
Recently, my interest in quality passive bookshelf speakers that work on the desk with the PC, for small HDB rooms, has been rekindled (maybe due to Covid-19).

While the 'computer speakers' category is still around, represented by the likes of Logitech / Creative / Edifier / Swans / Razer / Bose / Klipsch / Harmon Kardon, the packaged solution and the overall audio quality they offer has not been very attractive to me. There're of course the better active solutions, but I prefer the flexibility of separates since I can change different components as I go along.


And as I continue my journey towards understanding what I hear, I'm refining my personal definition of what is acceptable for a customized / DIY 2.1 desktop speaker setup:


1. 'Satellites' should handle at least 70-120hz without relying on sub, so vocals have proper weight and don't sound like they come from subwoofer.
Above 80hz is generally cited as where FR become too directional for sub.

'Bassiest' (in the title) just means lowest usable bass extension (without EQ). My general understanding is that if the driver + cabinet aren't designed to go low naturally without EQ, boosting the (mid-)low end with EQ can quickly lead to undesirable effects, plus we're also fighting against the crossover electronics.

Also, I've experimented with some bookshelf / satellite speakers I currently have, and while I can increase the sub's crossover point + EQ that FR region, I can still hear a clear difference.


2. Cabinet depth lesser than 20 cm. It's an arbituary value, but 20cm tends to be 1/3 to 1/4 of the typical depth of a table.
Have searched through the small speaker offering from most of the established brands and those that go below 20cm depth inevitably have severe dropoffs around 100-120hz (actual 3rd party measurements, not published specs).

Have noticed there's typically 3 depths, at ~17cm / 20cm / 24cm. Small home theatre satellites frequently are 17cm and below, but the frequency response suffers as well. At the moment, I'm hoping the Dayton MK402X will be the exception to the rule (17cm depth but has good bass down to almost 50Hz).


3. Midrange driver of at least 4 inch.
I remember Wwenze has mentioned before 5 inch is the sweet spot for overall good tonality (paraphasing, pls correct if wrong). But almost impossible / very hard to find 5 inchers that has less than 24cm depth and still have the bass extension.

*Update:
There are a bunch of speakers with ~5 inch drivers and ~20cm depth, namely the Fluance HFS, the Klipsch R-15M (taller though), the older Monitor Audio Bronze series, the NHT C-1 (sealed) and the Promonitor 1000 (sealed).
The AVX Audio 6.5 as well, though may not be considered 'properly designed'.

And technically the LS3/5a and its various disciples (though bass tends to be a problem with them).


4. Budget, obviously.
Wouldn't be hunting for desktop speakers for small room otherwise. Still, doesn't mean I'm not considering more expensive speakers, it's just whether the value is there for me to fork out that much more.



Awesome simple frequency test to detect room resonances by ear made by wwenze:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A list of the speakers that fit or are just slightly outside the above criteria. Though note that published numbers can frequently be massaged (like some '4.5 inch' driver measurement actually includes baffle :s22:).
Most in the list are also bundled as home theatre speakers. And note the difference between the Sealed vs Ported speakers.

AVX Audio 6.5"
3rd Party Measurements - Amazingly bad :s13:
Dimensions (HWD): 305 x 197 x 190 mm
Drivers: 6.5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 45 Hz - 22 kHz

B&W M-1
3rd Party Measurements 1 - website
3rd Party Measurements 2 - The chart is not in the website, but you can find it in the magazine version of the same article
*The M-1 linked here is the newer iteration, there's also an older 'M1'.
Dimensions (HWD): 248 x 114 x 162 mm
Drivers: 4" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 64 Hz - 23 kHz (±3 dB), -6dB at 55Hz and 50kHz

Cambridge Audio SX50
Unfortunately couldn't find any 3rd party measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 225 x 161 x 240 mm
Drivers: 5.25" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 50 Hz - 22 kHz

Dali Fazon Sat (not Mikro)
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 287 x 146 x 172 mm (with table stand)
Drivers: 4.5" + 1.1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 86 Hz - 25 kHz (±3 dB)

Dali Spektor 1
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 237 x 140 x 195 mm
Drivers: 4.5" + 5/6"
Claimed Frequency Response: 59 Hz - 26 kHz (±3 dB)

Dali Zensor Pico (discontinued)
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 230 x 141 x 196 mm
Drivers: 4.5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 62 Hz - 26.5 kHz (±3 dB)

Dali Zensor 1 (discontinued)
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 274 x 162 x 220 mm
Drivers: 5.25" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 53 Hz - 26.5 kHz (±3 dB)

Dayton MK402X
3rd Party Measurements for the earlier MK402 + DSP Correction Filter
Dimensions (HWD): 241 x 146 x 168 mm
Drivers: 4" + 3/4"
Claimed Frequency Response: 60 Hz - 20 kHz

Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 276 x 159 x 165 mm
Drivers: 5.25" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 47 Hz - 30 kHz

Emotiva BasX Sat
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 267 x 146 x 174 mm
Drivers: 4" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 85 Hz - 25 kHz (±3 dB)

Fluance SX6
3rd Party Measurements + DSP Correction Filter
Manufacturer's Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 343 x 211 x 231 mm
Drivers: 5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 60 Hz - 20 kHz

Fluance XL7S
Manufacturer's Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 290 x 206 x 229 mm
Drivers: 5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 60 Hz - 20 kHz

Fluance HFS
Manufacturer's Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 325 x 200 x 209 cm
Drivers: 5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 60 Hz - 20 kHz

Klipsch R-14M
Unfortunately couldn't find any 3rd party measurements, but given the measurements from R-15M below, may be reasonable to believe their claimed frequency response.
Dimensions (HWD): 248 x 149 x 191 cm
Drivers: 4" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 64 Hz - 24 kHz (±3 dB)

Klipsch R-15M
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 318 x 178 x 206 cm
Drivers: 5.25" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 62 Hz - 24 kHz (±3 dB)

Micca MB42X
3rd Party Measurements of the powered version of MB42X + DSP Correction Filter
Dimensions (HWD): 241 x 147 x 165 mm
Drivers: 4" + 3/4"
Claimed Frequency Response: 60 Hz - 20 kHz

Micca RB42
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 221 x 124 x 200 mm
Drivers: 4" + 3/4"
Claimed Frequency Response: 50 Hz - 20 kHz (Typical In-Room)

Monitor Audio BX1 (discontinued)
Monitor Audio Bronze BR1 (discontinued)
Monitor Audio Bronze 1(discontinued)
Unfortunately couldn't find any 3rd party measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 260 x 165 x 205 mm
Drivers: 5.5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 55 Hz - 30 kHz

NHT SuperZero 2.1
3rd Party Measurements - For SuperZero 2.0, hopefully is similar
Dimensions (HWD): 228 x 127 x 140 mm
Drivers: 4.5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 85 Hz - 20 kHz (±3 dB)

NHT C-1
3rd Party Measurements - Apparently the C-1 is a refresh of the AbsoluteZero
Dimensions (HWD): 244 x 146 x 190 mm
Drivers: 5.25" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 70 Hz - 20 kHz

Polk Audio S10
Unfortunately couldn't find any 3rd party measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 213 x 137 x 159 mm
Drivers: 4" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 67 Hz - 40 kHz

PSB Alpha P3
Unfortunately couldn't find any 3rd party measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 220 x 130 x 174mm
Drivers: 4" + 3/4"
Claimed Frequency Response: 57 Hz - 21 kHz (±3 dB)

SVS Prime Satellite
3rd Party Measurements
Dimensions (HWD): 222 x 124 x 160 mm
Drivers: 4.5" + 1"
Claimed Frequency Response: 69 Hz - 25 kHz (±3 dB)


The prices can vary quite a bit in the above selection of speakers. This list will probably be obselete in a few months, but hopefully it can help someone else who's not satisfied with the selection of 2.1 speaker systems on the market right now, doesn't want to go down the route of actives, and still wants the smallest desktop footprint.

Dayton MK402X seems to check the various boxes, and there's a good deal today, hope it can really go down to 60hz as claimed.
 
Last edited:

wwenze

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
73,372
Reaction score
18,271
On-wall speakers

Usfq17M.png


If you got $$$ u can go for ATC's offerings too

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/hts-on-wall/hts7/
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/hts-on-wall/hts11/

Also Audioengine A5+ is 19.7cm
 
Last edited:

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
On-wall speakers

Usfq17M.png


If you got $$$ u can go for ATC's offerings too

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/hts-on-wall/hts7/
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/hts-on-wall/hts11/

Also Audioengine A5+ is 19.7cm

Yah, was also looking into on-wall speakers, but they tend to be quite wide and tall though, and harder to find their FR measurements.

Cool, good to note the A5+ space-conscious design. Oh but one side has 20cm depth, but the other is 23cm. :s22:
Guess 20cm for 5 inches (in properly designed speakers) is like a limit liao...
 

wwenze

Great Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
73,372
Reaction score
18,271
One more solution is the old sealed speaker designs. LS3/5a for example has a depth of 165mm. Yamaha NS10 is 200mm. Though one can argue if they qualify as "properly designed speakers".

Smaller speakers with sufficient bass is another solution. iLoud MTM comes to mind.

Also Genelec 8030C stuffs a 5" driver in a 178mm depth. The Ones series is slightly thicker but definitely no shortage of that performance balance. Also no shortage of price...
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
One more solution is the old sealed speaker designs. LS3/5a for example has a depth of 165mm. Yamaha NS10 is 200mm. Though one can argue if they qualify as "properly designed speakers".

Smaller speakers with sufficient bass is another solution. iLoud MTM comes to mind.

Also Genelec 8030C stuffs a 5" driver in a 178mm depth. The Ones series is slightly thicker but definitely no shortage of that performance balance. Also no shortage of price...

True, the LS3/5a and its 'descendants', and the NS10 have desk friendly depths too. But damn tall...

Genelec not passive lei...

I also realised the smallest members of the Monitor Audio Bronze family have had 20cm depths AND houses a 5 inch for the last 15 years or so! Not their latest 6th generation though, seems they increasing the depth in order to go lower. Which is sad.

Guess they cannot figure out how, or found no $$$ incentive, to continue to optimise the FR and still maintain cabinet size any longer. :(
 
Last edited:

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
Added Klipsch R-14M. No one seems to have measured them though.
Added Klipsch R-15M as well, since it has a good shallow depth of 20.5cm. And its 3rd party measurements as well.
 
Last edited:

Norman Chan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
8,232
Reaction score
3
Your computer is using what sound chipset/Audio chipset ? You can spend money to buy the best speakers but if your sound chipset is not to standard than is a waste of time.
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
Your computer is using what sound chipset/Audio chipset ? You can spend money to buy the best speakers but if your sound chipset is not to standard than is a waste of time.

Yup, using Topping DAC and Yamaha A-S500.
Actually I think my intention is to understand how to mix and match to get a good desktop setup.

Assuming the user is not particular about getting that crazy 20hz low end in a typical hdb room, AND that the user is ok with EQ, the key ingredient seems to be satellite / bookshelf speakers that has good performance / adequate volume in the 50-150hz frequency range. The audio sounds full and integration to the sub is very smooth.

If the speakers are physically unable to properly play 50-150hz (drivers smaller than 4"), it's very hard for eq or subwoofer to patch this hole.

I didn't realise how magical this 100hz range is until I started recording with a measuring mic.

Unfortunately, I also realised passive speakers that can do so AND maintain a slim, desk friendly depth are not as commonplace as they should be.


At the same time, learning about the significance of the frequency regions and how speakers are different. Or similar.
https://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum
 
Last edited:

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
Interesting discussion on what narrow dispersion and wide dispersion speakers are. Didn't know narrow dispersion speakers generally need less side reflection treatment.

 

LiLAsN

Master Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
2,640
Reaction score
445
On-wall speakers

Usfq17M.png

I am using the Elac Debut 2.0 On-wall speakers as my surrounds. They are slim but yes, they are tall.

A pair of them are going for just around $297 on Amazon Singapore right now.

But if you are using room correction software paired with these speakers, your results should be fine. Impressive too actually for a pair of slim speakers. As seen with the room corrected readings below of both the right and left surround pair.
As seen, it goes from 47Hz all the way to 20kHz almost at a straight line. And only dips as it is supposed to only after 20,000Hz which is beyond human hearing.

2MUHPgo.png
 
Last edited:

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
I am using the Elac Debut 2.0 On-wall speakers as my surrounds. They are slim but yes, they are tall.

A pair of them are going for just around $297 on Amazon Singapore right now.

But if you are using room correction software paired with these speakers, your results should be fine. Impressive too actually for a pair of slim speakers. As seen with the room corrected readings below of both the right and left surround pair.
As seen, it goes from 47Hz all the way to 20kHz almost at a straight line. And only dips as it is supposed to only after 20,000Hz which is beyond human hearing.

2MUHPgo.png

Nice~~ They're against the wall then? And you're using an amp with dirac live integrated?
 

LiLAsN

Master Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
2,640
Reaction score
445
Nice~~ They're against the wall then? And you're using an amp with dirac live integrated?

Yup. They are against the wall.

And nope. I skipped using amps since I rarely can watch content at reference level of 75dB. That is just too much! :s13:

Using Dirac Live with the NAD T778 AVR.

Check out the size of this receiver. It's way smaller than even the cheapest Denon AVRs. Letalone any higher end Denon AVR that will be even bigger. Am really impressed.
I can just upgrade the HDMI 2.0 with the HDMI 2.1 module in the future like upgrading my PC components.
Currently using only 5.1.2. Still have 2 more channels to connect to it and 2 more if I want to finally use an amplifier.

One thing I noticed with using Dirac Live vs Audyssey XT (Marantz AVR) and XT32 (Denon AVR), it made a very holistic audio experience without any extra tweaking after calibration. The volume levels were spot on.
With Audyssey, I'll need to adjust the volume and speaker distance after I did the calibration because the speakers always don't sound balanced most of the time.

The test result above is without me using any magic dust wiring yet. Just the standard plugs and 18 AWG speaker wires (for those On-Wall surround speakers you see above and I wished I'd understand the importance of wire gauge sooner before I had mine sealed behind the walls with no way to change the surround speaker cables now)
 
Last edited:

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
*using my own thread as a dump for what I've learnt :s13:

I noticed that my previously equalized subwoofer (equalized in daytime) had some squiggles in the frequency response at night. So I made more measurements to compare.

It would appear that my room ambient noise has a slightly different profile in the day vs at night. In both instances my room aircon is off. In the day (noon), the peak shifts to 40hz while the peak is at 37hz at night. This change affects my eq at the 35-40hz region.

kuGvqki.png


You can download the REW file here (EQ1 was made during the day, EQ2 at night):
https://app.box.com/s/xj8u0wl2n2llexsszcgqelqngxnch0vh

Mic position is at my seat, ear height, subwoofer inches from me below the desk. Since measurements were taken at different times of the day, the mic position is slightly different. I did a lot more measurements than what I've uploaded, but those are deleted because the measurements have been consistent.

If your room is a typical living space with considerable ambient noise, and 'sound treating the room' means closing your doors / windows, you might wanna take the above into account...
 

edmundgoh

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
392
Reaction score
0
I have the same quest as you looking for smallest passive bookshelf speaker with good bass. My use case is as a computer speaker setup powered by my my Creative X7 DAC desktop Amplifier via USB to computer.
They are downward firing bass port so you can push them all the way to the wall.

Eltax Monitor III
https://en.eltax.com/product-page/monitor-iii

Bought them at Adelphi. Cheap and wipe the floor at their budget.
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
25
For my fellow Singaporeans dealing with typical HDB rooms, can try this.
Current desk setup, employing front AND rear firing speakers! How it looks on my desk....please ignore the leftmost speaker (not connected). Gives much bigger sound that goes behind the monitor, so it's less 'in your face'.
p95ILVO.jpg


My room setup
7rWUkS4.jpg





For those interested in measurements and graphs:
Download REW file

Using the A/B inputs from my singular amp to drive the 2 pairs of speakers, so can only eq both speakers (on a channel) at once. Light purple graph is the summation of the L/R/sub channels.
XmIUSvC.png



EQ for the LR channels were a simple affair though.
Only used a low shelf @~300hz and a high pass @90hz, to knock down the rising low ends + my L channel's side wall gain + kill the sub 100hz stuff. Can see the original and equalized graphs below.
J8WiW8U.png
 
Last edited:

freshvibes

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
27,467
Reaction score
5,131
For my fellow Singaporeans dealing with typical HDB rooms, can try this.
Current desk setup, employing front AND rear firing speakers! How it looks on my desk....please ignore the leftmost speaker (not connected). Gives much bigger sound that goes behind the monitor, so it's less 'in your face'.
p95ILVO.jpg


My room setup
7rWUkS4.jpg





For those interested in measurements and graphs:
Download REW file

Using the A/B inputs from my singular amp to drive the 2 pairs of speakers, so can only eq both speakers (on a channel) at once. Light purple graph is the summation of the L/R/sub channels.
XmIUSvC.png



EQ for the LR channels were a simple affair though.
Only used a low shelf @~300hz and a high pass @90hz, to knock down the rising low ends + my L channel's side wall gain + kill the sub 100hz stuff. Can see the original and equalized graphs below.
J8WiW8U.png

This is quite an appealing and unique setup
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top