Newbie Guide: How to Find a Good Agent for Investment & Insurance?

LancelotDuLac

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On the part of investments,

Index-tracking funds or ETFs while generally may beat 95% of the mutual funds in the long run but there are some stellar active-managed funds that out-perform.

The mutual fund universe numbers in 4-digit figure, so perhaps you might want to explore a little bit more.

ETFs or mutuals funds are also but a fraction of investment tools available in the market.

Also on the point of staying vested and not taking panic to volatility in the market while it generally holds true, there are much better ways to manage a portfolio.

A few classic examples of when staying vested even in the long run can turn out to be a disaster.

1) Dot.com burst in 2001, still in the doldrums
2) Japan equity market since the 1990s

The world of investments is a much bigger oyster than what has been discussed here, tools available are much more than your run-of-the-mill ETFs/REITS/UTs/Stocks etc ;)
 

Rommie2k6

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On the part of investments,

Index-tracking funds or ETFs while generally may beat 95% of the mutual funds in the long run but there are some stellar active-managed funds that out-perform.

Yes, that is true, but can you find the 5% who will outperform for the next 30-40 years? NO. Today's winners often become tomorrow's losers. Past performance is no indicator of future performance. If you work in the bank and are familiar with this you should know this.

Also on the point of staying vested and not taking panic to volatility in the market while it generally holds true, there are much better ways to manage a portfolio.

A few classic examples of when staying vested even in the long run can turn out to be a disaster.

1) Dot.com burst in 2001, still in the doldrums
2) Japan equity market since the 1990s

The world of investments is a much bigger oyster than what has been discussed here, tools available are much more than your run-of-the-mill ETFs/REITS/UTs/Stocks etc ;)

Care to share us examples of other tools besides the run-of-the-mill stuff? Perhaps trying to promote some exotic products?

Your examples are skewed and warp the reality of investment
1) Dot.com bubble burst was limited to the tech stocks. Why would anyone invest ONLY in tech stock? Why would anyone invest ONLY in one sector? Did you forget about diversification?
2) And yet a Japan investor who invested 50% local and 50% international would have more than recovered. Why would anyone invest ONLY in one country? Did you forget about diversification?

The examples provided shows the perils of not diversifying your portfolio, they are not examples of the perils of investment. I believe I did emphasize on diversification in my earlier posts.
 
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Rommie2k6

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1) $ for coverage, a term plan will outrank a WL or ILP anytime. But there are some pointers raised by some other forum guys which can be valid.

In an event of cash-flow problems, by missing the due premiums, the term plan may be lapsed without any chance of reinstatement which a WL would be sustained by it's APL function. One may argue that there is the 6-mths of emergency cash but the reason for the cash-flow problem would be an unanticipated big cash problem that has sucked up all if not most of your funds.

Yayaya.... again this excuse. If your emergency fund runs out, then you can start to liquidate a small tiny portion of your invest-the-rest money to pay premium (which is the same thing in WL when you tap your cash value to pay premium).

2) Points out that term+ self-investment is the BEST way to go would be a very skewed way to look at things. I remember a certain post by Rommie2k6 along the lines of "either get educated or be poor". While I would agree that being exposed and educated is definately the way to go, there ARE people in the world who

a) have absoulutely no interest to learn
b) no time (due to their own day job and family needs)
c) mindset issue of fear of "losses", they can't stand the thought of investing as their poor hearts just cannot take the ups and downs of the market

While I myself would never do things like structured deposits, ILPs or endowments, they do still serve a purpose for a certain group of people in society (beats the 0.1 to 1% in bank deposits)

Alright then, can you suggest a better way. To the 3 types of people you pointed out:
a) Don't want to learn that's fine... see who suffer in the end.
b) Find the time, and honestly it doesn't take that much time.
c) That's due to ignorance of what investment is. If they are risk adverse then adopt a more conservative portfolio. Parking it in cash and FD is a sure way to lose money to inflation. Guaranteed.

Seriously my opinion of people who simply refuse to learn on how to handle money... then they truly deserved to be milked with lemon products. It is a sad situation for them, but you reap what you sow. My best compromise to this type of stubborn people is to invest regularly in a balanced fund, like the UOB Growth Path series (I'm not endorsing this range of unit trust btw) and forget about it till retirement. However, my opinion is that balanced funds are all crap in this country, which is why I didn't mentioned it before.
 
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LancelotDuLac

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Yes, that is true, but can you find the 5% who will outperform for the next 30-40 years? NO. Today's winners often become tomorrow's losers. Past performance is no indicator of future performance. If you work in the bank and are familiar with this you should know this.


Like you have said yourself, spend the time to research. If you want performance, you can put in the work for it? If you are happy with just the index-equalvalent returns, well shrugs?

Whilst past performance is not an indication of future performance, history still teaches a lesson or two. I am no pure advocate of technical analysis or fundamental analysis but rather in using the various tools to help.

Performance of the various funds are about moving your investments according to the cyclical patterns of economic progress. By tweaking your investment portfolios accordingly, one can optimise the overall return.

I do not need to be correct all the time, all I need is to be right 70%, that will be enough to beat ETFs in the long run.
 

LancelotDuLac

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Care to share us examples of other tools besides the run-of-the-mill stuff? Perhaps trying to promote some exotic products?

Your examples are skewed and warp the reality of investment
1) Dot.com bubble burst was limited to the tech stocks. Why would anyone invest ONLY in tech stock? Why would anyone invest ONLY in one sector? Did you forget about diversification?
2) And yet a Japan investor who invested 50% local and 50% international would have more than recovered. Why would anyone invest ONLY in one country? Did you forget about diversification?

The examples provided shows the perils of not diversifying your portfolio, they are not examples of the perils of investment. I believe I did emphasize on diversification in my earlier posts.

Just a few examples which are not that uncommon nowaday would be your equity-linked notes, dual currency, short-term notes.

There are even more exotic products at the private banking sector.

I do not intend to warp the reality of investments but merely pointing out certain truths about investing. Whilst by staying vested in the long run, it USUALLY pays off but it is NOT ALWAYS TRUE. There are no ABSOLUTE METHODOLOGIES in investing. By using the 2 example of the dot.com and japan equity market, one's portion of portfolio would have been burnt to a crisp by staying vested in that particular sector, hence affecting the overall performance of the portfolio.

On the concept of diversification, many keep using this word but from interactions and discussions, there are very few retail investors who really know how to do proper diversification. (Not that many bankers/financial reps know anyway lol)

Academic research has to be taken in with discernment and how they derive their results is by taking into account based on an AVERAGE rather than comparing to the upper tail distribution, hence by using different parameters of data, a whole different conclusion can be met.

The world of investment is also a world of difference from what it was say 10-20 years ago, especially with the advent of technology.
 
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LancelotDuLac

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Yayaya.... again this excuse. If your emergency fund runs out, then you can start to liquidate a small tiny portion of your invest-the-rest money to pay premium (which is the same thing in WL when you tap your cash value to pay premium).
QUOTE]

On the part of WL vs Term, you think in a very narrow manner of which you assume that the money from the "invest the rest" is still available.

Let me just do a hypothetical scenario

BTIR only -> Due to non-nuclear family member (i.e brother, parents etc) needing a big sum of money (non-medical reasons, reasons can range from your O$P$, exotic disease needing medical treatment etc). Would you be so cold as to ignore the help plea from your family? If you can, well nothing more for me to say. Prudent Financial planning is planning for cover from ALL angles.

A combination of WL+Term, my point is that I do advocate buying into a massive WL and little Term but rather balancing the act. It is a matter of knowing what are your gaps that you have to cover versus your resources.

Say a person earning 50k P.A would need to be covered for 500k to be considered minimally sufficient. I could go for 100k WL+400k Term, a matter of balance rather than being extreme.

I remember a post about starting your protection needs when you are married with kids, that is potentially a very dangerous thought to be messing with due to

1) uninsurability
2) unforeseen accident/ illness

Disability coverage only covers a portion of % of salary but do not forget your physio and medical costs in the initial part of disability.
 
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LancelotDuLac

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Alright then, can you suggest a better way. To the 3 types of people you pointed out:
a) Don't want to learn that's fine... see who suffer in the end.
b) Find the time, and honestly it doesn't take that much time.
c) That's due to ignorance of what investment is. If they are risk adverse then adopt a more conservative portfolio. Parking it in cash and FD is a sure way to lose money to inflation. Guaranteed.

Seriously my opinion of people who simply refuse to learn on how to handle money... then they truly deserved to be milked with lemon products. It is a sad situation for them, but you reap what you sow. My best compromise to this type of stubborn people is to invest regularly in a balanced fund, like the UOB Growth Path series (I'm not endorsing this range of unit trust btw) and forget about it till retirement. However, my opinion is that balanced funds are all crap in this country, which is why I didn't mentioned it before.

I agree with you that those who refuse to spend time to learn how to handle money are losing out because they are using inferior financial products per se but the human pysche is a very paradoxical and interesting one, hence the existence of such products to cater to them. (If not for the existence of such products, they would be EVEN worse off since they can only do bank savings and F.Ds? Agreed?)

I disgree with you that it takes little time to do investment. Perhaps in your school of thought, all I'm doing is term, invest the rest into index funds, end of story. If you are a serious investor, the time and effort it takes is certainly more than your "little". It takes significant time away and everyone of us have just 24hrs.

Perhaps rather than dismissing my viewpoints away, would you care to share how little time you spend on your own portfolio management since you say it doesn't take much time away.
 

LancelotDuLac

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Actually a very good litmus test of knowing whether a particular financial rep/adviser/planner/agent is through how he/she

1) spends time to talk to you and understanding your current financial situation and objectives rather than zooming into products.

2) articulates the cost, pros and cons of each product. Most people in this line who just want to make a quick buck out of you will sell it as TOTALLY WONDERFUL and how it will help you but fails to illustrate to you on the what I call how it relates to your base principles/ objectives of your needs.

3) not pushy, is willing to spend time for follow-ups.

4) Post Sales Service (The A* test which your good actors/actresses will fail to do.)

There are no sure way methods of knowing if a particular person is really sincere to plan for you or just wanting to make commission/ hit target.

路遥知马力,日久见人心

Time is often the best way to know someone and that if you go in ignorant, then it's a price to pay if you meet the wrong kind of financial fella.

There are always good and bad people in whichever line of work.
 

Rommie2k6

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Like you have said yourself, spend the time to research. If you want performance, you can put in the work for it? If you are happy with just the index-equalvalent returns, well shrugs?

Whilst past performance is not an indication of future performance, history still teaches a lesson or two. I am no pure advocate of technical analysis or fundamental analysis but rather in using the various tools to help.

Performance of the various funds are about moving your investments according to the cyclical patterns of economic progress. By tweaking your investment portfolios accordingly, one can optimise the overall return.

I do not need to be correct all the time, all I need is to be right 70%, that will be enough to beat ETFs in the long run.

What a pile of crap. If you want to delude yourself to think if you put in enough effort you can beat the market go ahead. It's already been proven by decades of research that 95% of the people can't do it, and the remaining 5% we cannot conclusively tell if they have been lucky or skillful.

What you have described is not investment. That is speculation and "astrology" like TA.
 

Rommie2k6

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Just a few examples which are not that uncommon nowaday would be your equity-linked notes, dual currency, short-term notes.

There are even more exotic products at the private banking sector.

Yes, exotic products that are lemon, untested and unproven and unstudied. Why would anyone bother with it?

I do not intend to warp the reality of investments but merely pointing out certain truths about investing. Whilst by staying vested in the long run, it USUALLY pays off but it is NOT ALWAYS TRUE. There are no ABSOLUTE METHODOLOGIES in investing. By using the 2 example of the dot.com and japan equity market, one's portion of portfolio would have been burnt to a crisp by staying vested in that particular sector, hence affecting the overall performance of the portfolio.

On the concept of diversification, many keep using this word but from interactions and discussions, there are very few retail investors who really know how to do proper diversification. (Not that many bankers/financial reps know anyway lol)

Your examples are skewed and are loaded with erroneous assumptions. You are removing a piece of the strategy (diversification) and telling me there will be problems with it (BTIR). Of course there will be problems... DUH. I do not see why retail investors would not know how to diversify if they are properly educated in such things. Of course, if they rely on their banker friends to chase the latest hot fund, then obviously they are in for a rough ride. And considering that diversification is such a simple thing, I'm appalled by the fact that so many people whose career are finances-related don't know about it.

Academic research has to be taken in with discernment and how they derive their results is by taking into account based on an AVERAGE rather than comparing to the upper tail distribution, hence by using different parameters of data, a whole different conclusion can be met.

The world of investment is also a world of difference from what it was say 10-20 years ago, especially with the advent of technology.

Banker friend... you need to back up your substance-less claims with something you know... Having waving arguments and reasonable-sounding points isn't going to get you anywhere.
 

Rommie2k6

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On the part of WL vs Term, you think in a very narrow manner of which you assume that the money from the "invest the rest" is still available.

Let me just do a hypothetical scenario

BTIR only -> Due to non-nuclear family member (i.e brother, parents etc) needing a big sum of money (non-medical reasons, reasons can range from your O$P$, exotic disease needing medical treatment etc). Would you be so cold as to ignore the help plea from your family? If you can, well nothing more for me to say. Prudent Financial planning is planning for cover from ALL angles.

Personally, my answer is NO, I won't help. Self-insurance (i.e. ITR) money is meant for myself when I retire and retirement money is meant for retirement. Everything else like kids' college education and the examples you cited are secondary to the objectives I listed above. If you can't even prioritize your finances, then most likely you will end up to be that one burden asking your kids for money when you are old.

But let me entertain you for a while and say it is YES. I can liquidate part of my net assets to help that family member. So what is your point by bringing up this example? Do you think WL will be any better? Sure you can take a policy loan, but that's the same thing (not to mention you need to pay back with interest!!!)

A combination of WL+Term, my point is that I do advocate buying into a massive WL and little Term but rather balancing the act. It is a matter of knowing what are your gaps that you have to cover versus your resources.

Say a person earning 50k P.A would need to be covered for 500k to be considered minimally sufficient. I could go for 100k WL+400k Term, a matter of balance rather than being extreme.

I have nothing against a 20% WL and 80% Term. In fact, I did mention that it may be suitable for people who still cannot get out their mental block or are too conservative. I do have a problem with 100% WL, because going this route is going to be very expensive and the typical person will likely be underinsured given the limitations of budget.
 

Rommie2k6

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I agree with you that those who refuse to spend time to learn how to handle money are losing out because they are using inferior financial products per se but the human pysche is a very paradoxical and interesting one, hence the existence of such products to cater to them. (If not for the existence of such products, they would be EVEN worse off since they can only do bank savings and F.Ds? Agreed?)

Partially agree only. Some toxic products like ILP can lead to zero cash value at retirement. In such situation, leaving in the bank is even better! LOL

I disgree with you that it takes little time to do investment. Perhaps in your school of thought, all I'm doing is term, invest the rest into index funds, end of story. If you are a serious investor, the time and effort it takes is certainly more than your "little". It takes significant time away and everyone of us have just 24hrs.

Perhaps rather than dismissing my viewpoints away, would you care to share how little time you spend on your own portfolio management since you say it doesn't take much time away.

The idea of a "serious investor", one who needs to do a lot of stock market research is a myth, propagated by the finance industry.

How much time for portfolio management? Well, let's see

Part 1: Constructing Portfolio and Finding Suitable Products

This is probably the most time consuming part. Constructing portfolio is pretty OK, once you know the basics. Depending on how deep you want to go, it can take from a simple 1hr read to many hours. Finding suitable products is tougher given the lack of good investment products in Singapore, and you will need a few days if you start from scratch (assuming you know what to look for). But if you use the information I have provided in this guide, it will save you some time searching here and there.

So let's saying a typical young investor with OK risk appetite and long time horizon. The usual "rule" is age in bonds, so say 70% stock and 30% bonds. Without going into too many exotic strategies (e.g. small value tilting), let's just assign 1/3 of stocks each to local, international(developed) and international(emerging). So final portfolio is - 23% SG stock, 23% International Developed Stock, 23% International Emerging Stock, 30% Bond.

Now to find products. iShares ETFs on London Stock Exchange are OK, but not the best. International(emerging) stocks can be covered by EEM. International(developed) stocks can be covered by IWRD. Local stocks can use STI ETF. Bond can use a bond unit trust like the Lion Global Singapore Bond Fund. This very basic portfolio will have four funds only and is sufficiently diversified for most people.

Part 2: Maintaining Portfolio

This part is comparatively simpler once you get things setup.Setup a monthly RSP by GIRO into some money market fund or high interest rate savings account. Creating those accounts and paperwork may take a few hours, but once it's done, it is done. Every quarter, login to brokerage account and buy more ETFs or unit trust using the money you have socked away. Top up your money according to maintain the percentages specified in the portfolio. This takes probably 15min.

Then... every 5 year or so, reduce your stock allocation by 5% and increase bond allocation by 5%. This reduces the conservativeness of the portfolio in accordance to increasing age.

IF investors are really super lazy, and I do NOT recommend this... then just create a unit trust account with some online distributor like Dollardex. Pick a suitable target fund (e.g. UOB GrowthPath series). Set an RSP sum and forget about it. No more maintenance needed until retirement (provided UOB GrowthPath does not close shop in the meantime).
 
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genie47

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Yes, exotic products that are lemon, untested and unproven and unstudied. Why would anyone bother with it?

I will reinforce this with my post linked here:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3126183

Compensate complexity with simplicity: Complexity from globalisation and highly networked economic life needs to be countered by simplicity in financial products. Complex systems survive thanks to slack and redundancy, not debt and optimisation.
 

LancelotDuLac

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Partially agree only. Some toxic products like ILP can lead to zero cash value at retirement. In such situation, leaving in the bank is even better! LOL



The idea of a "serious investor", one who needs to do a lot of stock market research is a myth, propagated by the finance industry.

How much time for portfolio management? Well, let's see

Part 1: Constructing Portfolio and Finding Suitable Products

This is probably the most time consuming part. Constructing portfolio is pretty OK, once you know the basics. Depending on how deep you want to go, it can take from a simple 1hr read to many hours. Finding suitable products is tougher given the lack of good investment products in Singapore, and you will need a few days if you start from scratch (assuming you know what to look for). But if you use the information I have provided in this guide, it will save you some time searching here and there.

So let's saying a typical young investor with OK risk appetite and long time horizon. The usual "rule" is age in bonds, so say 70% stock and 30% bonds. Without going into too many exotic strategies (e.g. small value tilting), let's just assign 1/3 of stocks each to local, international(developed) and international(emerging). So final portfolio is - 23% SG stock, 23% International Developed Stock, 23% International Emerging Stock, 30% Bond.

Now to find products. iShares ETFs on London Stock Exchange are OK, but not the best. International(emerging) stocks can be covered by EEM. International(developed) stocks can be covered by IWRD. Local stocks can use STI ETF. Bond can use a bond unit trust like the Lion Global Singapore Bond Fund. This very basic portfolio will have four funds only and is sufficiently diversified for most people.

Part 2: Maintaining Portfolio

This part is comparatively simpler once you get things setup.Setup a monthly RSP by GIRO into some money market fund or high interest rate savings account. Creating those accounts and paperwork may take a few hours, but once it's done, it is done. Every quarter, login to brokerage account and buy more ETFs or unit trust using the money you have socked away. Top up your money according to maintain the percentages specified in the portfolio. This takes probably 15min.

Then... every 5 year or so, reduce your stock allocation by 5% and increase bond allocation by 5%. This reduces the conservativeness of the portfolio in accordance to increasing age.

IF investors are really super lazy, and I do NOT recommend this... then just create a unit trust account with some online distributor like Dollardex. Pick a suitable target fund (e.g. UOB GrowthPath series). Set an RSP sum and forget about it. No more maintenance needed until retirement (provided UOB GrowthPath does not close shop in the meantime).

You have illustrated my point perfectly when I said retail investors often shout "diversification" but do not know what that really means.

Let me point out the weakness of your portfolio based on 23% SG stock, 23%International Developed Stock, 23% International Emerging Stock, 30% Bond.

You are just banking into your typical stock+bonds albeit of different market for your stock allocation.

What about your money markets, fixed income, real estate, gold, commodities, resouces, energy, mining sectors? Just a few examples of how weak your suggested portfolio is constructed.

Your 30% bond portion, allocation into global bonds? emerging market bonds? High yield bonds?

It's easy to say diversification, much harder to do it.
 

LancelotDuLac

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Personally, my answer is NO, I won't help. Self-insurance (i.e. ITR) money is meant for myself when I retire and retirement money is meant for retirement. Everything else like kids' college education and the examples you cited are secondary to the objectives I listed above. If you can't even prioritize your finances, then most likely you will end up to be that one burden asking your kids for money when you are old.

But let me entertain you for a while and say it is YES. I can liquidate part of my net assets to help that family member. So what is your point by bringing up this example? Do you think WL will be any better? Sure you can take a policy loan, but that's the same thing (not to mention you need to pay back with interest!!!)



I have nothing against a 20% WL and 80% Term. In fact, I did mention that it may be suitable for people who still cannot get out their mental block or are too conservative. I do have a problem with 100% WL, because going this route is going to be very expensive and the typical person will likely be underinsured given the limitations of budget.

Like I said before, I do not advocate any solutions as being the BEST but rather depending on the individual, the solution must be catered to that person.

And as previously said before, I advocate Term as protection needs are impt your economic years especially in the early years where your resources should be more limited.

And going back to the WL saga, as I've said, one can never predict the future, there is always a posibility of a certain event requiring to use your entire liquid holdings, hence wiping you clean. Even if I have to pay back with interest, at least for the time being I can be covered for 100k, rather than without?

There can be so many examples, your parents in retirement decide to visit the casinos and get addicted until they loan and loan until the sum snowballs, a child who gets into trouble with the law- expensive lawyer fees blah blah blah.

Can you say it WILL NEVER HAPPEN? The truth is no, hence I say. Rather than going for extreme planning, it is better to plan covering different angles, it is more prudent.
 
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LancelotDuLac

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Yes, exotic products that are lemon, untested and unproven and unstudied. Why would anyone bother with it?



Your examples are skewed and are loaded with erroneous assumptions. You are removing a piece of the strategy (diversification) and telling me there will be problems with it (BTIR). Of course there will be problems... DUH. I do not see why retail investors would not know how to diversify if they are properly educated in such things. Of course, if they rely on their banker friends to chase the latest hot fund, then obviously they are in for a rough ride. And considering that diversification is such a simple thing, I'm appalled by the fact that so many people whose career are finances-related don't know about it.



Banker friend... you need to back up your substance-less claims with something you know... Having waving arguments and reasonable-sounding points isn't going to get you anywhere.

Let me ask you this question, do you even understand how the product works? While it may sound exotic to you perhaps due to lack of exposure? If there is no academic research done on it, means that it is bad i.e a lemon product? You speak and write as if you know alot but only from academic viewpoints.

Refute my point on the part on how research is being conducted, how studies and results were conceived? Study more in depth of what you have read, was I wrong to say they use assumptions BASED on averages. This is always how academic research is being conducted.

Eons ago, academics all thought that Earth was flat and the centre of the universe. And everyone just believed it as the gospel truth because everyone said so. But now we know, earth is not flat and definately not the centre of the universe.

Expand your mind to accomodate new ideas, new thoughts.
 
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genie47

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I don't know. This thread has proven why my mother never trusted the insurance guys and my father looked after his own retirement with traditional products.

Being alive is just like buying car and having to drive it on the roads. Unlike being on the road where insurance is compulsory, though optional with life, life assurance is a necessary evil to be undertaken. The consequences of not taking a policy are dire should anything happen.

Then again, I can clearly remember the fine fvcking day that my car insurance broker used the same hogwash of extreme planning to cover my fully paid up car with comprehensive insurance when I insisted on 3rd party, fire and theft.

The same old adage my father told me applies today. Do not get insurance for things that you can afford to pay. The whole purpose of insurance is to provide financial aid when an event leaves you financially crippled. Nothing more, nothing less. It can never get simpler than that.

I know this idiotic psychological game you insurance guys play. It is so damn tempting to "insure" all the damn little things in life. This includes the bailing out of friends, relatives, parents from the evils of casinos. This idea that you don't want to feel like you are wasting insurance dollars, if you get my drift. Ah well, you do otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned this fear mongering idea. I am more likely to get a dented bumper or some package lost in the mail than having a fire lose my home or suffer a long term disability.

Well, the dented bumper costs me $500 and my lost package? Amazon can take care of it with the excellent customer support which I can't say the same for the insurance industry of Singapore. I'm still not happy going about to pay for the dented bumper though. Relatives who gambled and lost their money? NCPG will take care of them including a comprehensive plan to help them pay for their losses and provide counseling.

I take up life assurance not because I got silly idiot relatives gambling their money away. I cannot afford a financial catastrophe from my death so that life for my family can continue with the loss of my income.

Well, nobody forces you to do evil. Listening to your advice to "insure" against the folly of my own loved ones is just plain evil.
 

LancelotDuLac

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What a pile of crap. If you want to delude yourself to think if you put in enough effort you can beat the market go ahead. It's already been proven by decades of research that 95% of the people can't do it, and the remaining 5% we cannot conclusively tell if they have been lucky or skillful.

What you have described is not investment. That is speculation and "astrology" like TA.

You cannot conclusively tell if it was luck or skill, so you determine it cannot be done?

Like I said, I do not need to beat the market ALL the time. I just need to do better for 70% of the portfolio aka MOST of the time.

And as I've said before, the decades of research are based in the PAST, it is a different world and research is over-rated in some sense.

Then why the need to crunch numbers? analysis? Just do as what you advocate, let's just buy index funds and be done with it since it's so idiot proof.

No need for CFAs or CHfc or whatever there is. Investment is so easy peasy :s22:

For some simple proof as requested. Read below for an analytical piece by Fundsupermart.

http://www.fundsupermart.com/main/research/viewHTML.tpl?articleNo=4809

Dear Rommie2k6 will then go on to say about his Past Winners today will be tommorrow's losers.

Loosen up and be more accomodating of ideas and concepts than just be entrenched in your small world. You behave like those of what history has taught us, remember my analogy of the FLAT EARTH.
 
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LancelotDuLac

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I don't know. This thread has proven why my mother never trusted the insurance guys and my father looked after his own retirement with traditional products.

Being alive is just like buying car and having to drive it on the roads. Unlike being on the road where insurance is compulsory, though optional with life, life assurance is a necessary evil to be undertaken. The consequences of not taking a policy are dire should anything happen.

Then again, I can clearly remember the fine fvcking day that my car insurance broker used the same hogwash of extreme planning to cover my fully paid up car with comprehensive insurance when I insisted on 3rd party, fire and theft.

The same old adage my father told me applies today. Do not get insurance for things that you can afford to pay. The whole purpose of insurance is to provide financial aid when an event leaves you financially crippled. Nothing more, nothing less. It can never get simpler than that.

I know this idiotic psychological game you insurance guys play. It is so damn tempting to "insure" all the damn little things in life. This includes the bailing out of friends, relatives, parents from the evils of casinos. This idea that you don't want to feel like you are wasting insurance dollars, if you get my drift. Ah well, you do otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned this fear mongering idea. I am more likely to get a dented bumper or some package lost in the mail than having a fire lose my home or suffer a long term disability.

Well, the dented bumper costs me $500 and my lost package? Amazon can take care of it with the excellent customer support which I can't say the same for the insurance industry of Singapore. I'm still not happy going about to pay for the dented bumper though. Relatives who gambled and lost their money? NCPG will take care of them including a comprehensive plan to help them pay for their losses and provide counseling.

I take up life assurance not because I got silly idiot relatives gambling their money away. I cannot afford a financial catastrophe from my death so that life for my family can continue with the loss of my income.

Well, nobody forces you to do evil. Listening to your advice to "insure" against the folly of my own loved ones is just plain evil.

I said before in a much earlier post, going back to base principles or objective.

What is that NEED? Term or WL is for that need of coverage of a financial catastrophe from death so that life for the family can continue with the loss of income. I REPEAT, I DO NOT ADVOCATE WL OR TERM exclusively BUT rather plan for WHAT YOU NEED.

There is no such thing as the BEST METHOD.
 

genie47

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I said before in a much earlier post, going back to base principles or objective.

What is that NEED? Term or WL is for that need of coverage of a financial catastrophe from death so that life for the family can continue with the loss of income. I REPEAT, I DO NOT ADVOCATE WL OR TERM exclusively BUT rather plan for WHAT YOU NEED.

There is no such thing as the BEST METHOD.

What people need is simplicity. Your statements in caps just contain something sinister. Vested interest by blurring the lines. Oh well, it is rather unfortunate that the people who were driving a school bus blind folded are allowed to continue driving the school bus after it crashed and killed all the children on board.
 
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