Profitable Group - is it credible?

[probono]

DLP update / Kubler Ross

Rachel

You are either a Profitable Plots troll or you are an investor stuck in the first stage at denial. To understand that look at this link to Kubler Ross. For this post i'll assume that you are an investor.

Take a look at the DLP update on the Profitable Plots home page (I refuse to link to it)

I am willing to bet you see that as great progress on your land towards planning permission.

I see the same rubbish that DLP and Profitable Plots have been putting out as status reports for years to investors. They write about UK planning activities which have no bearing on any of the 4 Profitable Plots green belt sites. They mention the mayor, Taylor Wimpey, the UK government, shortage of housing blah blah. Lost of words, no useful information.

I'm pretty sure if a planning office in London, Colchester or Nafferton goes for a bowel movement DLP will report that as a positive indicator for Profitable Plots investors.

DLP and Profitable Plots know that their UK sites cannot be developed in any meaningful time frame. So they throw random dates at investors to try and make them stick as meaningful progress. But there is no progress unless you count increased public awareness of how bad UK land banking plots are .

What I do Rachel is raise awareness about UK land Banking in Asia . I take no financial benefit or pleasure from that.

I just tell the truth. The problem is believers like you dont want the truth.

Call Taylor Wimpey, or Nafferton, or Colchester or Hounslow Council if you don't believe me. I called them. But you wont believe them either because you believe that a piece of greenbelt land sold in a hotel or shopping centre in Asia has some magical quality that all planners and developers in England don't know about. You believe that one day money will fall from the sky across Profitable Plots land.

Given all the evidence presented over several years, still believing that makes you a pretty sad person.

 

[teocf.rachel@gmail.com]

I may be sad and a troll but I have a name.
Whats your name? What do you do? What makes you qualified to give your opinions?

 

[probono]

I may be sad and a troll but I have a name.
Whats your name? What do you do? What makes you qualified to give your opinions?

Not opinions Rachel. Facts.

 

[teocf.rachel@gmail.com]

Not opinions Rachel. Facts.

Facts: My name is Rachel Teo. I am senior public servant. I am PP client.
Who are you? What do you do?

 

[Shiny Things]

Facts: My name is Rachel Teo. I am senior public servant. I am PP client.
Who are you? What do you do?

Hi Rachel,

OK, I read your blog post. First, cut it out with the "who are you and what do you do"; it makes you sound like a PP executive trolling for people to sue for defamation.

I just have one question:

As I understand it from your website, if Profitable Plots had been allowed to stay open for one more day, they'd have sealed a $160 million land sale in the Philippines and been able to repay every investor in full. Is that right?

 

[Commander Keen]

selective information

Rachel - looking at another blog I noticed you posted the same information on the Philippines site back in 2010 and never responded to the question asked. So here it is again.

Rachel. Post the name of the person or company buying the Profitable Group land in the Philippines. After all everyone involved should be proud of that transaction.


Perhaps while you are answering could we see the purchase details as we did for Concorde village. Since you are so well connected how about answering the questions raised by ProBono.

If I seem cynical it is that every Profitable Plots deal follows the same cycle.

• Amazing high profits offer which cant lose back by heavy promotion. (AAA!)
• No benefits delivered and evidence emerges that the deal is no good.
• Find out the product offered is rubbish uk land or doesn't exist (Nafferton, Colchester Spring Grove, Colchester Cherry Tree Grove, Concorde Village, Boron).

But now we have your holy grail. An unnamed piece of Philippines land which is going to deliver millions back to investors according to you. And we can't verify it because there is no transparency on this deal apart from information provided by you and Profitable Plots. So we only have the word of Profitable Plots a company where 3 of the directors are currently charged with cheating. And you an investor who is angry at people who are trying to help you.

So you are right I cant prove the Philippines land deal is rubbish. But based on past performance of all other Profitable Plots public offerings my opinion it is probably not a deal delivering anything back to investors if it exists at all.

The version of the story I heard (from a senior public servant) was the CAD got wind that PP were trying to transfer ownership of assets outside of Singapore so moved quickly to prevent that happening by stopping the transaction. I cant prove that though, any more than your rehashing of Profitable Group statements proves they are innocent.

Presumably the court case will clear that up.

BTW i'm a risk/project consultant for banking solutions. I work with some major banks in Asia. The reason I don't give my real name is i don't want my clients connecting me or my reputation in any way to a company like Profitable Plots.

 

[Commander Keen]

UK Land Banking plots - a picture is worth a 1,000 words

Linked this on a Jardin Smith International (JSI) discussion post but since no companies offering UK green belt land banking plots have ever converted them for the benefit of investors it seems relevant here as well. JSI have just been issued with shutdown notice in Brunei.

 

[probono]

Canada Investigation Status

Just a reminder. SCI in Canada took over the operations of Profitable Group with the same people. Dan Strumos of SCI was the person who when he was Profitable Plots Canada Client Services manager made the famous quote

"These accusations are false. Our headquarters are in Singapore and that would be the last place on earth for corporate shenanigans because the penalty for it is death."

Like Rachel, SCI blamed the CAD in this email here .

Dear valued Profitable Plots (Canada) Ltd. clients: Due to the on-going investigation by Singapore's CAD into Profitable Group, which has frozen the company since August of 2010 and will now continue frozen until November 8 2011, Syndications Canada Inc. has no choice but to end it's current marketing & client services agreement.All of our staff assigned to client services for Profitable Group have been laid-off and all operations ceased.

But it would appear the Ontario Securities Commission disagree.
SCI and several associated companies are now under investigation by the Ontario Securities commission. You can see the case against them here

During the Material Time, SCI accepted funds from Ontario residents for an investment product offered by SCI, which included a transfer of title in a plot of land approximately 8’x8’ in size to the investor plus a fixed return on the invested principal within a specified time period (the “Land Return Options Investment”). As part of the Repurchase Option, investors received a fixed return and were typically promised a guaranteed annual return of 12 to 25 percent on their invested principal. During the Material Time, approximately 60 investors invested approximately $2.75 million in the Land Return Options Investment. Return payments were made to investors totalling approximately $525,000 during this period. Approximately $2.2 million in investor principal has not been returned.

Hopefully Singapore CAD and Canada OSC are talking and sharing.

 

[Commander Keen]

Updates SCI and Profitable Plots

The Singapore CAD has posted a copy of the Business Time article on the Profitable Group charges here

Profitable Plots Directors Charged With Cheating

The order preventing Syndications Canada Inc from trading has been extended until October 12th 2012 and can be seen here

This order has now been extended multiple times.

OSC | OSC Proceedings - Before the Commission

After claiming for a while that they longer represented Profitable Plots SCI now feature them again on their website here

Syndications Canada Inc. | Home

 

[JUSTHARRY]

All of which brings us to the moral to the Profitable Plots story - there's a good chance of getting off scot-free screwing the people of Singapore, so long as you don't besmirch Singapore's squeaky-clean image.

 

[arty79]

I would be interested to know how Rachel Teo, senior public servant and PP investor has to say about this.

 

[probono]

Changes to UK planning law = more PP spin

Remember Profitable Plots ? The company that told you the London Olympics was going to make you rich ? Or the UK housing shortage ? Or 3 years ? This is what Profitable Plots are reporting now on their website:-

UK GOVT TO AMEND GREEN BELT LAWS - 3 SEP 2012
The UK Government is proposing to change “ludicrous” planning laws to make it more difficult to object to developments and encourage councils to allow building on greenbelt land.


Yes there are proposed changes . The UK house building industry has stopped. These proposals are to allow changes to individual properties to be processed more quickly to add extensions and make small changes to properties. The intention is to try and kick start the building industry. Under the proposals councils will be allowed to use some green belt for building provided they find green belt to replace it.

So imagine a scenario where a UK council has a choice of
A: Enabling building on expensive greenbelt land cut into tiny plots and owned by a disparate group of Asians
B: Developing a single piece of Greenbelt land owned by a local UK developer.

You can read the point of view from both sides here.

Left wing newspaper
David Cameron to unveil year-long relaxation of planning laws | Politics | The Guardian

Will David Cameron's planning reforms create jobs and growth? | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Right wing politics newspaper
Lift the threat to our precious green belt | Mail Online

My opinion. These changes are meaningless to Profitable Plots investors.

 

[Commander Keen]

Profitable Plots Nafferton 1 of 1600

If you read the Profitable Plots website you may be under the impression that things at the PP Nafferton green belt site are going to be progessing in December.

I got this statement from the UK local authority on the Profitable Plots Nafferton site.

The Profitable Plots site in Nafferton is one of approximately 1,600 sites that have been submitted to the Council for consideration for future housing allocations in the emerging East Riding Local Plan. At this stage we are assessing the suitability of all of the proposed sites. We aim to report this in a draft of our Local Plan. The Local Plan will show which sites the Council believes are suitable for development , and which sites are not suitable for development. This will be presented to the Council's Cabinet in December 2012.

As we are still assessing the sites and have yet to report to Cabinet it is not possible at this stage to issue a public statement for any site. When the draft Plan is published for consultation in December it will provide a clearer steer as to which sites the Council considers are suitable for development.

 

[LiquidMan]

I actually read from page 1 to 47.

I hope the ang mohs don't go scot free.. and good luck to all who are waiting for a verdict.

 

[probono]

Profitable Plots get access to documents

TODAYonline | Singapore | Profitable Plots directors granted access to documents

Now they get back the documents they can know the name of the people who made a complaint against them and have a "special payment" back to those people to get them to drop charge.

This was the deal they had with the UK authorities to avoid action against the directors when Profitable Plots was closed down in the UK in 2007.

Pay back anyone who wants out and dont sell the products in the UK again. So they transferred to Asia and used some money from Asia to pay back people in the UK who requested refund. Some other people were persuaded to transfer from Colchester and Nafferton into Concorde Village. Perhaps Profitable can now use money from the Philippines to pay back people in Singapore and then use money from Canada to pay back complainers in Philippines.

Eventually will go all the way round the world and back to UK.

Or maybe they will move into Plantation investments and Carbon Credits like Jardin Smith staff.

 

[hockus79]

Plot acquisition

I have been contacted by a HK firm last night to acquire a plot I bought from Profitable Plot. The guy (caller) says they wish to buy over at a fair price, and will email me in the next 24 hr. Has anyone else been contacted too?

 

[hockus79]

The firm is Cohen & Goldstein which has a branch in New York and one in HongKong. The guy contacted me is Howard Goldstein in HK. The amount offered per plot is reasonably high, depending on location. He provided the contract and just pending my signature to proceed with the land purchase. He also mentioned that an american firm wishes to develop one of the plot, and the others plot would be purchased as an investment by the firm. There is a budget given by the firm hence the proposed price. Is this legal firm legitimate?

 

[Shiny Things]

The firm is Cohen & Goldstein which has a branch in New York and one in HongKong. The guy contacted me is Howard Goldstein in HK. The amount offered per plot is reasonably high, depending on location. He provided the contract and just pending my signature to proceed with the land purchase. He also mentioned that an american firm wishes to develop one of the plot, and the others plot would be purchased as an investment by the firm. There is a budget given by the firm hence the proposed price. Is this legal firm legitimate?

Something smells of fish here.

First and foremost, I can't find that law firm on Google - there is a Cohen & Goldstein in NY, but:
* They don't have a HK office - so they're probably not licensed to practice in HK;
* Their website says they specialise in matrimonial law;

I've got a dollar says this guy's going to ask you for a few hundred or a few thousand dollars in "transfer fees".

 

[hockus79]

I have checked thoroughly. Cohen has two websites. One is fake and the other is real. The fake one shows that they have two branches: NY & HK. He also requested for couple hundreds USD to be transferred to his a/c to process the transfers. It's a scam. To all others, if you receive a well-mannered speaking guy called Howard, please do not entertain him.

 

[probono]

Follow up scam = Advanced Fee Fraud.

This is a secondary advanced fee fraud . You are on what is called a suckers list in the trade.

You have a problem and sense of injustice created by an investment in worthless investment products. Someone magically turns up with the answer which is a scheme to solve the problem. All you have to do is pay a small upfront fee for the recovery service. You will then find out you've thrown good money after bad.

There is and has never been any development approved or planned for any Profitable Plots UK site. The Philippines site is a mystery to everyone but given the companies track record I wouldn't expect anything from that either.