Microsoft Surface

aural

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this really depends on how strict some stores are with their release date and how "close" you are to the release date.

Personally, the bigger chains (Best Buy,etc) will stick to the date so it's gonna be tough.

Lol. Flying off fr NYC 13th. Sigh. Just wait for aug.
 

tspurs

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Research has shown that using pencil on paper book makes you learn a lot better compared to using iBook & digital ink. (you should be able to google that article. It was published a few months back.) So I don't encourage young learners to use a tablet as a textbook.

For Poly/Uni, it's different but I heard many students prefer to use a tablet with a Wacom digitizer like the Surface/Surface Pro/Asus Vivotab/Fujitsu Q-series, etc. Not sure how well the Wacom Intuos stylus work on the iPad though. Don't know anyone using it.

The Wacom Intuos stylus doesn't work at all on the Ipad. It needs a Wacom active digitizer layer in the screen and the Ipad doesn't have it.

Would love to see that research. If it is done using Ipads as the experimental group, I won't be surprised, since the Ipad inking experience is nowhere near as good as what Wacom active digitizer technology is able to provide, and the Ipad screen is small.

But if one tablet can replace all the kilos of textbooks and workbooks that a schoolkid carries nowadays, I would think parents might be interested ...
 

RequiemDK

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Research has shown that using pencil on paper book makes you learn a lot better compared to using iBook & digital ink. (you should be able to google that article. It was published a few months back.) So I don't encourage young learners to use a tablet as a textbook.

For Poly/Uni, it's different but I heard many students prefer to use a tablet with a Wacom digitizer like the Surface/Surface Pro/Asus Vivotab/Fujitsu Q-series, etc. Not sure how well the Wacom Intuos stylus work on the iPad though. Don't know anyone using it.

Hmm I'm not sure if the article I read back then was the same. The one I read stated that their research shows better retention when pen and paper is used over a laptop or tablet with keyboard, but acknowledged that the study did not account for digital inking devices that mimicked handwriting using active digitizers (like the surface pros)... IBooks and iPads don't have proper implementations of digital inking due to the lack of active digitizers. What exactly did you google for to get that article? Most common search terms will turn up countless and worthless editorials talking about how much better ipads are for education because of apps. Zzz.
 

RequiemDK

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The Wacom Intuos stylus doesn't work at all on the Ipad. It needs a Wacom active digitizer layer in the screen and the Ipad doesn't have it.<br />
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Would love to see that research. If it is done using Ipads as the experimental group, I won't be surprised, since the Ipad inking experience is nowhere near as good as what Wacom active digitizer technology is able to provide, and the Ipad screen is small.<br />
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But if one tablet can replace all the kilos of textbooks and workbooks that a schoolkid carries nowadays, I would think parents might be interested ...
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Fyi there are schools that have been using full fledged cloud connected convertible windows 7 tablet PCs for students that do exactly that. Unfortunately while the experience and effects have been phenomenal, the movement still cannot go mainstream because of how expensive those devices are (each tablet PC costs 3k and are much heavier and less powerful than the surface pro due to the generation of technology they come from).
 

E_T

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The Wacom Intuos stylus doesn't work at all on the Ipad. It needs a Wacom active digitizer layer in the screen and the Ipad doesn't have it.

Would love to see that research. If it is done using Ipads as the experimental group, I won't be surprised, since the Ipad inking experience is nowhere near as good as what Wacom active digitizer technology is able to provide, and the Ipad screen is small.

But if one tablet can replace all the kilos of textbooks and workbooks that a schoolkid carries nowadays, I would think parents might be interested ...

Intuos Creative Stylus | Wacom

According to the link above it was created for iPad leh. Normal Wacom stylus just need a magnetic device at the tip.

I can't find that research too, too much noise on the Internet about the advantage of using computers. I found this though...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/t...technology-can-wait.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Successful tech industry expert send their kids to schools that emphasise using your hands & body in learning for as long as possible. If kids ask about complicated questions, the parents or teachers should answer it instead of allowing the kids to search google by themselves until they're old enough. Mental maturity will depend on the individual child so parent participation in the kids' education is very important. (Yah, tough to be a good parent...)

In Singapore, tablets or PCs are introduced much later in upper Primary or lower secondary, which is ok so long as the teachers knows exactly the goal of using tech & not to make a movie using iMovie or Windows Movie Maker. Early childhood should not have access to tablets or PC unless you're doing what these 2 dads are doing.

Build a PC with Your Kids | ExtremeTech

Nine-year old whiz-kid writes iPhone application | Reuters

Physically building a PC, including installing the OS, customisations of OS & software, and developing software is quite fantastic for a 9-10 yo child. Once my elder one is proficient in English & Chinese, I'd probably teach him VB or C++ as a third language. :)
 

tspurs

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Intuos Creative Stylus | Wacom

According to the link above it was created for iPad leh. Normal Wacom stylus just need a magnetic device at the tip.

OIC. I had thought you were referring to the Intuos pens that came with the Intuos writing tablets, which have been around for a long time. Wacom just decided to use the same 'Intuos' name for this one too, I guess.

This stylus uses Bluetooth 4.0 and doesn't need a digitizer layer. But it has a very large tip, which makes it difficult to see exactly the spot you are writing on. Adonit Jot Script Evernote Edition would probably be better for writing on Ipad IMO.
 

E_T

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Fyi there are schools that have been using full fledged cloud connected convertible windows 7 tablet PCs for students that do exactly that. Unfortunately while the experience and effects have been phenomenal, the movement still cannot go mainstream because of how expensive those devices are (each tablet PC costs 3k and are much heavier and less powerful than the surface pro due to the generation of technology they come from).

Hmm I'm not sure if the article I read back then was the same. The one I read stated that their research shows better retention when pen and paper is used over a laptop or tablet with keyboard, but acknowledged that the study did not account for digital inking devices that mimicked handwriting using active digitizers (like the surface pros)... IBooks and iPads don't have proper implementations of digital inking due to the lack of active digitizers. What exactly did you google for to get that article? Most common search terms will turn up countless and worthless editorials talking about how much better ipads are for education because of apps. Zzz.

Think we're talking about the same article because that article doesn't name the iPad specifically due to sponsor's limitation but the description matches the iPad.

I got a $4k Fujitsu T4215 about 8 years ago & it was a FANTASTIC TabletPC which lasted till now albeit with upgrades to CPU/RAM/SSD/Bluetooth & 2 replacements of batteries (Main + Bay). It has got a great Wacom digitizer that support 256 pressure levels but it's 2.2kg with 2 batteries.

Even with the SP3 clickable Pen, the weight itself is more than a pad of fool-scape paper & the satisfying sound & sensation when you use a 2B pencil to shade on paper, then use your fingers to smear the graphite to create gradient can't be replicated on a tablet. ;)
 

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Intuos Creative Stylus | Wacom

According to the link above it was created for iPad leh. Normal Wacom stylus just need a magnetic device at the tip.

Oh, that stylus. The major drawback of that thing is that palm rejection only works in their Paper app if I remember correctly. The Adonit Jot Script is better, but it's expensive and the battery drains damn fast in comparison. The Adonit Jot Pro sounds good as well, but the damn thing scratched my iPad's screen protector to bits and started to lose sensitivity quickly. That Wacom Intuos for iPad stylus uses Bluetooth and a custom app to emulate digital inking. Compared to the Galaxy Notes and the Surface Pros where inking is baked into the OS.... it's a world of difference :(
 

RequiemDK

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Think we're talking about the same article because that article doesn't name the iPad specifically due to sponsor's limitation but the description matches the iPad.

I got a $4k Fujitsu T4215 about 8 years ago & it was a FANTASTIC TabletPC which lasted till now albeit with upgrades to CPU/RAM/SSD/Bluetooth & 2 replacements of batteries (Main + Bay). It has got a great Wacom digitizer that support 256 pressure levels but it's 2.2kg with 2 batteries.

Even with the SP3 clickable Pen, the weight itself is more than a pad of fool-scape paper & the satisfying sound & sensation when you use a 2B pencil to shade on paper, then use your fingers to smear the graphite to create gradient can't be replicated on a tablet. ;)

I wonder if I used the same Fujitsu tablet PC. Lol. I do remember it was really heavy, and wanted to replace it with a Fujitsu Stylistic tablet PC, which actually looks almost exactly like the Surface Pro 3... except the Stylistic Tablet PC was seen back in 2004 or so. It also cost $6k at that time. :s22: Edit: Come to think of it, Fujitsu still sells the Stylistics. They're just not readily available in SG. I called them about it last year and their reply was that we would have to indent from them and wait a couple of weeks for them to ship one in. :/ Otherwise, this beast would be the Surface Pro 3's closest competitor - http://www.fujitsu.com/sg/products/pc/tablets/stylistic/q704/specs.html

Don't get me started on the feel of writing. Especially with a solid fountain pen. :s13: But for many things, the digital inking experience of the Wacom styli is still a good trade off for what it enables. :) The best feel I've had with digital inking still belongs to the Note Pro with a good matte screen protector and the right stylus tip. The Surface Pro's stylus tip is way too hard in comparison.
 
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E_T

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OIC. I had thought you were referring to the Intuos pens that came with the Intuos writing tablets, which have been around for a long time. Wacom just decided to use the same 'Intuos' name for this one too, I guess.

This stylus uses Bluetooth 4.0 and doesn't need a digitizer layer. But it has a very large tip, which makes it difficult to see exactly the spot you are writing on. Adonit Jot Script Evernote Edition would probably be better for writing on Ipad IMO.

It seems to me Adonit Jot script is not pressure sensitive. True? Moreover, it's not OS supported. Meaning your favourite app devs have to code for it. Then again, so is the Wacom... But with TabletPCs & Surface, I don't need to spend another $100+ on stylus that's not OS supported. So another minus point for iPad as an Enterprise tablet.
 

E_T

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I wonder if I used the same Fujitsu tablet PC. Lol. I do remember it was really heavy, and wanted to replace it with a Fujitsu Stylistic tablet PC, which actually looks almost exactly like the Surface Pro 3... except the Stylistic Tablet PC was seen back in 2004 or so. It also cost $6k at that time. :s22: Edit: Come to think of it, Fujitsu still sells the Stylistics. They're just not readily available in SG. I called them about it last year and their reply was that we would have to indent from them and wait a couple of weeks for them to ship one in. :/ Otherwise, this beast would be the Surface Pro 3's closest competitor - STYLISTIC Q704 - Detailed Specs : Fujitsu Singapore

Don't get me started on the feel of writing. Especially with a solid fountain pen. :s13: But for many things, the digital inking experience of the Wacom styli is still a good trade off for what it enables. :) The best feel I've had with digital inking still belongs to the Note Pro with a good matte screen protector and the right stylus tip. The Surface Pro's stylus tip is way too hard in comparison.
Yes, the old Stylistic basic version was $6k with premium model up to $7k. Crazy!? :D The New Stylistics has a waterproof model! Imagine that!

Wah! Fountain pens are too heavy for me. I personally prefer a Pilot 0.5mm pigment ink ballpoint pen. Or a mechanical pencil like the Papermate Pacer Executive Cassette with Uni 2B leads, which has been with me for 20+ years.

http://www.officechoicemalaga.com.au/Products/SAN-S18035570

I used to have a matte screen protector for my Fujitsu but after 7 years of wear, I had to peel it off. It emulates the paper feel pretty well but of course, the stylus tip is plastic so can't emulate the graphite on a pencil ablating off. Looks like we came from the same era. LOL!
 

trento

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yep not for me thats for sure , im sure many people will love this tablet and it should be out of stocks soon . well good for them and you?

i think u need to separate ipad and sp to 2 different categories.

one is a mobile OS, the other is not.

Apple believes mobile and laptop OS shd be separate, hence u hv ios and osx.

So far, Apple's strategy clearly was implemented better.

MS tried to use the same strategy but failed miserably cos their windows mobile store could not take off.

consumers will choose the sp3 but definitely not use ipad as a comparison in terms of price, performance etc cos it's simply a different product.

u might as well say macbook pro is so much better than ipad?

so pls compare the products in the right category.
 

md iszaki

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Holy jagger, surface pro 3 looks so much better. Gd thing I didn buy surface pro 2. Will definitely try to trade with my surface2.
 

HL

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SP3 uses a bluetooth N-trig pen, not the Wacom found in SP1 and SP2. Personally, I could never go back to N-trig after using Wacom. But then again my N-trig was from 3 years back so not sure if things have improved. Those who intend to write alot, maybe better to try out SP3's N-trig first before splurging :)

Ipad is not using active digitizer screen, writing on it regardless of which pen is night and day from using the Wacom.
 
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tspurs

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It seems to me Adonit Jot script is not pressure sensitive. True? Moreover, it's not OS supported. Meaning your favourite app devs have to code for it. Then again, so is the Wacom... But with TabletPCs & Surface, I don't need to spend another $100+ on stylus that's not OS supported. So another minus point for iPad as an Enterprise tablet.

The Jot Script Evernote Edition is pressure sensitive, but only for apps that are 'Jot ready' i.e. incorporate its SDK. So yeah, far less flexible than a Wacom or an N-trig.
 

tspurs

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SP3 uses a bluetooth N-trig pen, not the Wacom found in SP1 and SP2. Personally, I could never go back to N-trig after using Wacom. But then again my N-trig was from 3 years back so not sure if things have improved. Those who intend to write alot, maybe better to try out SP3's N-trig first before splurging :)

Ipad is not using active digitizer screen, writing on it regardless of which pen is night and day from using the Wacom.

Agree with trying out - can also test with the Sony Duo 13, Acer R7-572 etc. that already use N-trig. Folks at tabletpcreview do feel that the N-trig has improved tremendously.
 

kuro

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i don't think Microsoft will be stupid to use another pen technology if it works badly. After all, SP3 is supposed to be THE product to beat MBA

Personally I feel SP3 is never meant to be a normal tablet. It is supposed to be a laptop replacement in a tablet form.
 

E_T

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i think u need to separate ipad and sp to 2 different categories.

one is a mobile OS, the other is not.

Apple believes mobile and laptop OS shd be separate, hence u hv ios and osx.

So far, Apple's strategy clearly was implemented better.

MS tried to use the same strategy but failed miserably cos their windows mobile store could not take off.

consumers will choose the sp3 but definitely not use ipad as a comparison in terms of price, performance etc cos it's simply a different product.

u might as well say macbook pro is so much better than ipad?

so pls compare the products in the right category.

You're right of course, but many people are still confused coz:

1. In USA at least, iPad & Surface Pro have similar prices
2. Both look similar
3. MS in the past has marketed the Surface RT/2 & SP1/2 as iPad replacement when it clearly isn't (not enough casual games)

That's why the SP3 is compared directly to a MBA. Although that's not really a fair comparison also but that's the problem with Hybrid devices.

Moving forward, MS should really put LTE into Surface 2 + SP3 so Telco can push their data plans & subsidise the purchase. This will boost the image & create mindshare for Windows 8.1 & entice more app devs to code for Win8.1 Metro & maybe WP8.1.

For Apple, they know they'll never win big with OSX, that's why they invest so much in iOS.

For MS, the direction to merge all OS into a single kernel + similar Windows Service stacks seems to be a better long-term strategy but even Steve Ballmer admitted he was too slow to realize the mobile revolution or else, the NT Kernel would have been slimmed down at a faster pace.

WP8.1 should have been available 2 years ago, that's why many people are saying MS was too late to the party.
 

E_T

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SP3 uses a bluetooth N-trig pen, not the Wacom found in SP1 and SP2. Personally, I could never go back to N-trig after using Wacom. But then again my N-trig was from 3 years back so not sure if things have improved. Those who intend to write alot, maybe better to try out SP3's N-trig first before splurging :)

Ipad is not using active digitizer screen, writing on it regardless of which pen is night and day from using the Wacom.
Yah, I remember the N-Trig used in HP TabletPC was horrible & hence our company didn't allow its use for signature. Only Wacom TabletPC or compatible signature pads were allow.
 

E_T

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Agree with trying out - can also test with the Sony Duo 13, Acer R7-572 etc. that already use N-trig. Folks at tabletpcreview do feel that the N-trig has improved tremendously.
During the launch, Panoys demo the Pen & it looks to have a similar resolution as my Fujitsu TabletPC.

Fine details are REALLY fine & squiggles actually look like squiggles. :)
 
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