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New Professional Conversion Programmes for Data Analyst and Full Stack Software Developer

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Old 29-10-2017, 09:05 AM   #16
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If the person has good attitude for learning, why not teach a sinkie instead of hiring abnn or pinoy?????
Why teach sinkie when you can straight away hire abnn or pinoy?
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Old 29-10-2017, 06:10 PM   #17
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Why teach sinkie when you can straight away hire abnn or pinoy?
They are good at bullsh.iting at what they are doing......

At least if hire sinkies, you expect Singaporeans to ******** less than them.......
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Old 30-10-2017, 06:45 PM   #18
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The so called subsidy comes in the form of wage subsidy and training subsidy. Government will pay bulk of the training fee, eg. 70% while employer will pay something like 30%. Wage subsidy means government will reimburse company ONLY for days when employee goes for training. For eample if the training is one week in a month, means employee is absent for 5 days, company will receive wages ONLY for that 5 days, not the whole month.
No that's not true. it's for the whole month:

•Up to 70% of the Singapore Citizen (SC) /Permanent Resident (PR) trainees trainee’s monthly salary, capped at $4,000 (excl. GST) per trainee per month, for the duration of the programme.
•Up to 90%* of the Singapore Citizen (SC) trainee’s monthly salary, capped at $6,000 (excl. GST) per trainee per month, for the programme duration.


But the thing is, gahmen's money IS NOT EASY to claim. The course provider who recommended the candidate to my company did not say about all these things in detail beforehand -

the company is the one who has to come up with a training plan for the candidate. They have to write like what is the person going to learn every month, and the objectives at the end of the course, and so on. TLDR, it's leh ceh as fk

From employers point of view, I hire a person with zero experience with Sg level wages, still got to pay for course fee and tolerate absenteeism, plus give on job traing. There is a better alternative. Hire from india or indonesia. Cheaperer, betterer, no need to pay course fee, no absenteeism. They can hire unlimited numbers as long as it falls under employment pass and not work permit or S pass.
They don't even need to hire FTs. Just fresh grads will do. At least fresh grads have SOME knowledge in that field, compared to someone in this program with ZERO knowledge, plus fresh grads are definitely cheaper than people in this programme too. Without the wage subsidy, no sane employers will be willing to take up this offer.

The companies that enrol for this program are those that government rejects their employment pass applications for some reasons, and they have no choice but to hire singaporeans as last resort, so they enrol in this program reluctantly.
You're right in a way - my company only looked at this because the senior colleague was unable to hire a programmer. He looked for experienced people at first, then fresh grads, then fresh grads from Malaysia/overseas, then in the end tried this option out.

Last edited by havetheveryfun; 30-10-2017 at 06:50 PM..
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Old 30-10-2017, 09:13 PM   #19
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If the person has good attitude for learning, why not teach a sinkie instead of hiring abnn or pinoy?????
You didn't get the actual picture right. What you say is very reasonable, but from their point of view, why must they go through all the trouble plus pay more when they can take the easy way out by hiring abnn and pinoy?
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Old 30-10-2017, 09:14 PM   #20
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Why teach sinkie when you can straight away hire abnn or pinoy?
exactly. You know the situation very well.
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Old 30-10-2017, 09:19 PM   #21
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They are good at bullsh.iting at what they are doing......

At least if hire sinkies, you expect Singaporeans to ******** less than them.......
reality is their asking price is too tempting for employers to ignore the risk of BS. Plus during the selection process, if the person selecting is abnn or pinoy, they want to hire their own country people. It has been happening all these while. Some of the ads even blatantly specify they want people from a certain country until people complain and they amend it. Nowadays they are more discreet in their ads, but that does not stop them from discriminating against singaporeans. That is the sad reality. Government allows it. What to do?
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Old 30-10-2017, 09:31 PM   #22
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•Up to 70% of the Singapore Citizen (SC) /Permanent Resident (PR) trainees trainee’s monthly salary, capped at $4,000 (excl. GST) per trainee per month, for the duration of the programme.
•Up to 90%* of the Singapore Citizen (SC) trainee’s monthly salary, capped at $6,000 (excl. GST) per trainee per month, for the programme duration.
I spoke to the officer. That is not the case. Take note of the word "Up to". They only compensate employer for the absent days when employee go for classes. So if the employee is absent say for one week in a month, government will only compensate employer about 25% of that month's salary. Definitely not one whole month, unless the employee is absent for one whole month. You can call the officer and verify this and then let us know.

They don't even need to hire FTs. Just fresh grads will do. At least fresh grads have SOME knowledge in that field, compared to someone in this program with ZERO knowledge, plus fresh grads are definitely cheaper than people in this programme too. Without the wage subsidy, no sane employers will be willing to take up this offer.
Experienced people from third world countries like indonesia, vietnam, of course india, are still cheaper than fresh local graduates. Confirm. You can ask around how much is a graduate being paid in india and how much are singaporean graduates asking salary.

You're right in a way - my company only looked at this because the senior colleague was unable to hire a programmer. He looked for experienced people at first, then fresh grads, then fresh grads from Malaysia/overseas, then in the end tried this option out.
Their first preference is abnn/pinoy/viets. Then Malaysians. Singaporeans are last in priority. Plus some of the abnn, pinoys and malaysians are given PRs or citizens. I was told marina bay financial centre is like mumbai.
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Old 31-10-2017, 08:05 AM   #23
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I spoke to the officer. That is not the case. Take note of the word "Up to". They only compensate employer for the absent days when employee go for classes. So if the employee is absent say for one week in a month, government will only compensate employer about 25% of that month's salary. Definitely not one whole month, unless the employee is absent for one whole month. You can call the officer and verify this and then let us know.
I'm not sure about that. My HR is in charge of that. But from what she told us over small talk during lunch, it was for the monthly salary, if not why would any employer even take up this offer? Which PCP programme did you enquire about ?

Because for the candidate my company hired, his course is part-time at night.. so he won't even be absent at all from the company.

Experienced people from third world countries like indonesia, vietnam, of course india, are still cheaper than fresh local graduates. Confirm. You can ask around how much is a graduate being paid in india and how much are singaporean graduates asking salary.


Their first preference is abnn/pinoy/viets. Then Malaysians. Singaporeans are last in priority. Plus some of the abnn, pinoys and malaysians are given PRs or citizens. I was told marina bay financial centre is like mumbai.
Yaeh you are right but the foreign to Sinkie quota now does help a bit. Though of course, there are many ways to get around it if the company really wanted to do so.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:34 PM   #24
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Hi,one year has passed, may i know if you have been matched to an employer under the program? Could you share your experience if u don't mind? I just enrolled, now waiting.
No the consultant that time said they would send my resume to prospective employers and if they decide to ask me for interview then they would call me.. but I got 0 calls at all
Dun bother, those PCP... the participants are all an empty shell.

I've tried several of the Infocomm positions like the Full-Stack, Devs (Java,.Net), Web dev, Data & a couple of Network positions.... all in the last one & half years.

NONE OF THEM CALLED!!! (iss-nus or NTUC-nextU)

To be fair, only Lithan called but ask if i wanna take their courses on MY OWN $$$ ! ..... & then look for jobs on my own after the course!


Just a heads-up for you guys.



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Old 07-02-2018, 08:58 AM   #25
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Dun bother, those PCP... the participants are all an empty shell.

I've tried several of the Infocomm positions like the Full-Stack, Devs (Java,.Net), Web dev, Data & a couple of Network positions.... all in the last one & half years.

NONE OF THEM CALLED!!! (iss-nus or NTUC-nextU)

To be fair, only Lithan called but ask if i wanna take their courses on MY OWN $$$ ! ..... & then look for jobs on my own after the course!


Just a heads-up for you guys.



.
ya.. my friend's company , he said he hired a person from PCP program.. but until now the course have not started ! even after 4-5 months ! then now the company that offering the course are tellin the coy they cant claim for that person's salary if no attend the course !

not the participants are an empty shell but the companies are an empty shell ! think about why would these companies want to go through all these troubles when they can just hire a fresh grad...

personally I forked out my own money and attended 1-2 of the 5 -day courses which the PCP programme also covers... then I went for interviews and the interviewers didn't care about these courses, it was useless to the interviewers... u would probably have a higher chance if you self-studied, make your own application/start your own project than going for these useless courses which cost a bomb too even after subisdies !
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Old 20-02-2018, 07:18 PM   #26
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i am currently in the PCP for full stack software developer course. Employer / government agenda aside, this full stack course is quite demanding.

Prior to this course i need learn up on HTML, CSS and JS. Afterwards comes SASS, ReactJS, cmd/bash, ruby, github/bitbucket, AngularJS, SQL, JAVA, Watson API, responsive design, python and jquery.

These skills need to learn in 3-6 months. To even get shortlisted for interview as software engineer, i suggest build up your github portfolio.
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Old 20-02-2018, 09:57 PM   #27
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i am currently in the PCP for full stack software developer course. Employer / government agenda aside, this full stack course is quite demanding.

Prior to this course i need learn up on HTML, CSS and JS. Afterwards comes SASS, ReactJS, cmd/bash, ruby, github/bitbucket, AngularJS, SQL, JAVA, Watson API, responsive design, python and jquery.

These skills need to learn in 3-6 months. To even get shortlisted for interview as software engineer, i suggest build up your github portfolio.
wow u are really hardworking n hungry for a software developer role..

But your experience with it is precisely where the problem lies - if you already self-studied all that on your own beforehand and built up your own portfolio, I'm pretty sure you can land a development job without having to go through this course or program at all..

whereas the PCP program claims to convert and train a person with close to 0 experience and knowledge in that field from scratch and through on the job training

perhaps you could share your experience on how you manage to get into this program and employer.. e.g. who you emailed to sign up for the program, or did you find an employer yourselfbefore signing for the program, etc maybe that would be helpful to others

Last edited by havetheveryfun; 20-02-2018 at 10:00 PM..
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Old 21-02-2018, 09:55 AM   #28
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I think whining about not getting hired due to inexperience is really pointless. For myself prior to career switch i was working as naval architect for nearly 4 years, I went through quite a few interviews for similar positions. While i did get offered, there is hardly any pay difference die to employer either being SME stingy with budget or they just shoot back claiming job scope different from my previous job.

So experience or not to me its just plain bs excuse, work 10 years they will just shoot back say you don't want to get out of comfort zone and etc. Technically it is possible to self study and get a job, but that is provided that you have some form of foundations in the beginning. If PCP gives the opportunity to both learn and pay for salary, just take it instead of being stubborn on self learning.

Back to topic on the PCP courses. It is plain misconception to think that you can enter the course without preparations. For example data analyst course, out of 150 people who took the assessment prior to course, only 50 people are accepted. full stack have a much smaller intake of about 10-20 people per batch.

My personal story on entering this PCP is very simple, join a startup which needs sinkie quota to hire FT developers, than convince the employer that even themselves can take up the PCP course. Of course they themselves they need to learn HTML, CSS, javascript first. What i did really rely a lot on network and timing though. For the course that commences in February 2018, i have been talking to them since October 2017.

Anyway my final words are that focus on attending coding bootcamp instead of whining about crappy employer.
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Old 21-02-2018, 10:16 AM   #29
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Back to topic on the PCP courses. It is plain misconception to think that you can enter the course without preparations. For example data analyst course, out of 150 people who took the assessment prior to course, only 50 people are accepted. full stack have a much smaller intake of about 10-20 people per batch.
I think you misunderstood my point, people whining about not getting hired due to inexperience is exactly the problem here.

Because the PCP program had been promoted and advertised to be such a program (to convert someone with 0 or close to 0 experience), but in actual fact it isn't at all. I mean, of course if the employer is going to pay for you to attend more courses even though you already know a bit, why not right ?

I agree though that it might be better to fork out your own money to attend a coding bootcamp (Currently already a few good ones I think and only last a few months - NUS ISS full stack, General Assembly, etc) and build up your own portfolio rather than trying for the PCP courses.. there is no free lunch in this world.

The last resort is that actually you can fork out your own money to attend the PCP courses without even needing to have an employer or job.. you can go through the full course as an individual and then try to look for a job after that - but most sinkies are cheapo and wouldn't want to take such a risk.

Last edited by havetheveryfun; 21-02-2018 at 10:20 AM..
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Old 21-02-2018, 12:00 PM   #30
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i recommend focus more on being proficient in doing software development than focusing on employment and wondering why employer are so stingy in paying high for software developer.

The unfortunate part of this PCP full stack course is that lesser people are interested in this course in 2018 as compared to 2016. The main reason is cause the students are all shocked by the difficulty of this course.

If you actually monitor github regularly, the coders who are successful typically spend thousands of unpaid hours to commit over 10k lines worth of coding. In fact the jobless or freelance open source community are much more proficient than highly paid software developer.
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