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Any history experts ? How come Tibet is under China rule but VietNam / Korea is independent?

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Old 25-12-2008, 01:53 PM   #1
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Any history experts ? How come Tibet is under China rule but VietNam / Korea is independent?

Any history experts ? How come Tibet is under China rule but VietNam / Korea is independent?


Why is that so? because i find tat korea and vietnam has greater similartieis with China

imperial examination, mandarin officials, emphasise on confucian values

but how come they not under china rule but tibet is
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Old 25-12-2008, 01:59 PM   #2
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Hi TS,

Too bad, ponpokku is not here. He is an expert in history. He is known as a walking encyclopedia.
I really admire him for his enormous knowledge in history, languages...etc.

I regard him as a big cyberbrother! He is more than happy to show off his expertise knowledge to you. U have my guarantee that you won't be disappointed by ponpokku's remarkable knowledge.
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Old 25-12-2008, 02:13 PM   #3
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not very sure, but i think korea once was a country which paid tribute to china as a subordinate country
but after Tangs dynasty they broke off
where Southern country like Burma and vietnam were always not regarded seriously and developed properly by ancient chinese rulers, thus when china face foreign invasion, these places were broken off from china
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Old 25-12-2008, 02:20 PM   #4
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not very sure, but i think korea once was a country which paid tribute to china as a subordinate country
but after Tangs dynasty they broke off
where Southern country like Burma and vietnam were always not regarded seriously and developed properly by ancient chinese rulers, thus when china face foreign invasion, these places were broken off from china
the correct term for korean is called a vassal state .

vietnam is considered a border country of china , one of the dynasty they are a vassal state of china too.

but if u wanna compare all the way back , japan also used to rule china , mongolian also used to rule russia and eastern europe , it will be no end to it.
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Old 25-12-2008, 03:30 PM   #5
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how abt tibet?
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Old 25-12-2008, 08:38 PM   #6
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Any history experts ? How come Tibet is under China rule but VietNam / Korea is independent?


Why is that so? because i find tat korea and vietnam has greater similartieis with China

imperial examination, mandarin officials, emphasise on confucian values

but how come they not under china rule but tibet is
Because imperial examinations, Mandarin officials, and emphasis Confucian values all ended with the fall of the Qing in 1911.
It's 2008 now.

Plus Tibetans are more known for meditating during war than actually retaliating.
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Old 25-12-2008, 11:23 PM   #7
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Any history experts ? How come Tibet is under China rule but VietNam / Korea is independent?


Why is that so? because i find tat korea and vietnam has greater similartieis with China

imperial examination, mandarin officials, emphasise on confucian values

but how come they not under china rule but tibet is
Well, we dun really have to dwell too much into the history specifics. Current independent countries are what they are now, not only because of history, but also because of either their military might or the general acceptance of the other countries with military might. An example of this is the United States. If history is to be regarded, they would still be under the United Kingdom and not independent now. Similarly, Taiwan is not able to declare independence now because of its inferior military (compared to PRC) and the non-acceptance of the majority of the other countries.

To reply to the 2 countries as u questioned, Vietnam and Korea have a nationalistic culture that allows them to tend towards independence, hence the Vietnamese and Koreans will not be willing to be subordinate to PRC.

As for Tibet, now is a struggle between the PRC central party and the separatists. If the separatists manage to convince enough of the Tibet people that they should be independent, then yes, they will fight to become independent. But if they can't and the PRC central party convinces enough of the Tibet people that Tibet is better off being part of PRC, then Tibet will not be independent. History plays less of an influence to whether a country is independent or not, than more tangible factors like military might, international relations, etc.
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Old 26-12-2008, 07:56 AM   #8
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Tibet is under China rule because Chinese troops are stationed there. Just like China was under Japanese rule because there were Japanese troops stationed there previously. History doesn't really matter.
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Old 26-12-2008, 08:24 AM   #9
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if i'm not wrong, china had never regarded korea, vietnam and myammar as part of their empire at all, how would it be possible for them to declare korea and vietnam as one of their state?

Taiwan and tibet was part of china since donkey years ago. Thus china regard them as part of theirs
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Old 26-12-2008, 10:15 AM   #10
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if i'm not wrong, china had never regarded korea, vietnam and myammar as part of their empire at all, how would it be possible for them to declare korea and vietnam as one of their state?

Taiwan and tibet was part of china since donkey years ago. Thus china regard them as part of theirs
Korea was a vassal state. Whether that meant that they were actually part of the Chinese empire or not I'll not argue since I am not to sure myself. But that Korea (as a whole) was a client state is not disputable.

As for Burma, it was also at one stage a client state if I recall. But I don't really know much about Burma.
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Old 26-12-2008, 10:30 AM   #11
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Korea was a vassal state. Whether that meant that they were actually part of the Chinese empire or not I'll not argue since I am not to sure myself. But that Korea (as a whole) was a client state is not disputable.

As for Burma, it was also at one stage a client state if I recall. But I don't really know much about Burma.
As far as i know, china did not include them in their dynasty. But tibet and taiwan was part of theirs on their map for almost every dynasty...
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Old 26-12-2008, 10:49 AM   #12
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As far as i know, china did not include them in their dynasty. But tibet and taiwan was part of theirs on their map for almost every dynasty...
taiwan probably... but tibet is arguable. I only recalled the Qing dynasty trying to invade burma but failed. Not sure if Burma because a client state to the Ming Dynasty though,
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Old 26-12-2008, 10:56 AM   #13
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taiwan probably... but tibet is arguable. I only recalled the Qing dynasty trying to invade burma but failed. Not sure if Burma because a client state to the Ming Dynasty though,
i'm not sure either, i did ask about tibet and taiwan from my china friends, they all said that in their texts, taiwan and tibet were long time part of china in majority of their dynasty.

For me i have read up on it.

other then that, i learned from romance of the three kingdom!!!
lol
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Old 26-12-2008, 11:04 AM   #14
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I should check my facts first... but this is what I recall...

Korea, Vietnam were vassal states of China at least during Qing dynasty. Korea was given 'independence' because of force by Japanese. Vietnam i suppose was french colonization (?).

Tibet was under Qing rule (that's a definite) coz Qian-Long (or was it Kang Xi?) even built a replica of Lhasa Palace in Beijing to make the then Dalai at home when he visited Beijing.
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Old 26-12-2008, 11:23 AM   #15
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There are a lot of misconception of historical events by the West (Oh great self-righteous ones)

China as of today is largely drawn by the last recorded borders of the Qing Dynasty. Korea and Vietnam were vassal states.

Taiwan and Tibet were NOT.


Only Taiwan was sliced off to Japan as military tribune after the first Sino-Japan war. Tibet went on self-proclaimed independence after WWII. That's why the communists moved in. If Tampines goes "self-proclaimed" independence, SAF will step too.
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