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Old 26-02-2015, 11:52 PM   #271
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Just curious hor, will the scholarship for poly kias open again later?
Once a year i think
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Old 27-02-2015, 10:31 AM   #272
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Hi
If i got AABB can i get to nus chem eng?
Thx
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Old 27-02-2015, 07:57 PM   #273
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Applied for Aerospace Engineering in NTU, what do you guys think about my chances in getting in and the course's job prospects ??
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Old 27-02-2015, 11:09 PM   #274
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Applied for Aerospace Engineering in NTU, what do you guys think about my chances in getting in and the course's job prospects ??
High chance of getting in. Great prospects as well.
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Old 28-02-2015, 12:44 AM   #275
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Latest GES?

Is this the latest GES?



https://www.facebook.com/ChannelNews...592934/?type=1
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Old 28-02-2015, 01:22 AM   #276
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Okay guys, the new graduate employment survey is out.

NUS: http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/post...es/ges-nus.pdf

NTU:http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/post...es/ges-ntu.pdf

SMU: http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/post...es/ges-smu.pdf

You can compare with last year's statistics here:

Graduate Employment Survey 2013 (Published 2014) | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore


The honor of having the lowest employment rate this year goes to NTU psychology. Dropped from a 71.8% to a 54.9%.

Although because of the small size of individual NTU HSS courses, their employment rates fluctuate quite alot from year to year. Also since they dont seperate their honors and non-honors grads in the survey, it is skewed towards the lower end. NUS FASS and SMU Social Science only reveals data as an entire school, not individual courses. They also seperate the honors from the non-honors. For all we know, their psychology grads might be in the same situation as NTU grads as well. Especially so for NUS FASS which lumps in highly employed courses such as economics with courses with less luck with employment in order to make the stats look better. So do take the statistics with a pinch of salt.
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Old 28-02-2015, 10:27 PM   #277
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CHances of gettting into NTU comp science ?

worked for 2 years already though.
Please dun come com science, it is really not EASY...

it is extremely challenging
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Old 28-02-2015, 10:34 PM   #278
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In the GES 2013, NTU Economic is full time employment rate is 83.5%




However in last year survey, NTU economic full time employment rate seem to drop slightly....although pay increase, it is only 78.4%
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:39 AM   #279
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Is this the latest GES?



https://www.facebook.com/ChannelNews...592934/?type=1
That is the median gross monthly salary.

Okay guys, the new graduate employment survey is out.

NUS: http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/post...es/ges-nus.pdf

NTU:http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/post...es/ges-ntu.pdf

SMU: http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/post...es/ges-smu.pdf

You can compare with last year's statistics here:

Graduate Employment Survey 2013 (Published 2014) | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore


The honor of having the lowest employment rate this year goes to NTU psychology. Dropped from a 71.8% to a 54.9%.

Although because of the small size of individual NTU HSS courses, their employment rates fluctuate quite alot from year to year. Also since they dont seperate their honors and non-honors grads in the survey, it is skewed towards the lower end. NUS FASS and SMU Social Science only reveals data as an entire school, not individual courses. They also seperate the honors from the non-honors. For all we know, their psychology grads might be in the same situation as NTU grads as well. Especially so for NUS FASS which lumps in highly employed courses such as economics with courses with less luck with employment in order to make the stats look better. So do take the statistics with a pinch of salt.
This is the actual Graduate Employment Survey of 2015 for every one's reference:

http://www.salary.sg/2015/graduate-e...ublished-2015/

Seems like SMU business salary is up tops again as compared to NTU and NUS biz that had their salary (surprisingly) dropped.



All the best for people whom are considering the Big 3 for Admissions this year!

Last edited by Nosferato4; 01-03-2015 at 06:42 AM..
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:17 PM   #280
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That is the median gross monthly salary.



This is the actual Graduate Employment Survey of 2015 for every one's reference:

Graduate Employment Survey 2014 (Published 2015) | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore

Seems like SMU business salary is up tops again as compared to NTU and NUS biz that had their salary (surprisingly) dropped.



All the best for people whom are considering the Big 3 for Admissions this year!
why the CNA version like so little degree? how abt computer science, why nvr mention in NTU?
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:10 AM   #281
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why the CNA version like so little degree? how abt computer science, why nvr mention in NTU?
The news don't always put out full details, for full details you can see the MOE documents.
You can just take it that computer science is lump together with computer engineering in CNA report.
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:06 PM   #282
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The news don't always put out full details, for full details you can see the MOE documents.
You can just take it that computer science is lump together with computer engineering in CNA report.

why the CNA version like so little degree? how abt computer science, why nvr mention in NTU?
Actually, CNA only took the courses which were seemingly more popular. For what purpose Idk. To garner more attention?



Is this the latest GES?



https://www.facebook.com/ChannelNews...592934/?type=1

Oh I forgot to add in: For users wondering if this picture above^ is an accurate representation of pay:

1)This is definitely not. The GES is more accurate

2)This pic^ is a median of the pay of the courses and it is not that accurate as compared to the average gross monthly salary which is divided equally among-st all schools

3) Explanation for median and average for noobs


Uni "x" has 11 students from Biz course that graduated earning different pay:

Student 1 earns : $1
Student 2 earns : $3
Student 3 earns : $7
Student 4 earns : $9
Student 5 earns : $10
Student 6 earns : $10.01
Student 7 earns : $15.5
Student 8 earns : $16
Student 9 earns : $20
Student 10 earns : $30
Student 11 earns : $32

The Median represents the "middle" pay amount of all 11 students that graduated.

As Student 6 has a pay value of $10.01 which is higher than five students, and lower than the next five students, we call $10.01 the median pay value.

Now, let us calculate the average monthly pay for these 11 students that graduated from the biz course of "x' university

Average pay: $(1+3+7+9+10+10.01+15.5+16+20+30+32)
_______________________________________
11


Average gross monthly income per student: $13.96
Median monthly salary: $10.01


Using a median monthly salary is not an accurate depiction of pay status for an entire course because:

1)If the "middle person" in this case student 6 were to earn just 0.1 cents higher than the previous person (student 5 @ $10), and the student after him were to earn $1000 extra than him (Student 7 @ 1010.01) , he will still be the student earning a median pay at $10.01, which is a inaccurate representation of the student population's pay.

2) because of reason "1" CNA can either choose to:
a)Display courses and compare them deliberately to other "less popular
courses" to make that particular course seem attractive

b) Be selective about what numbers they show. They can group different
unrelated courses (E.g. single degree vs double degree) together and
because of reason "1" as stated above, they can make a course that get
paid a lot more seem "underpaid by playing with the median values.

c) let's take a look at the (4) courses: NTU's Accountancy, NTU's
Accountancy & Biz, SMU's accountancy and compare them based on
median and average salary taking into consideration all level of honnors
& all levels of cum laude (both based on monthly basis)

ci) Median monthly salary as told by CNA

NTU Accountancy: (NIL no such description exists)
NTU Accountancy & Biz 3300
SMU Accountancy 2875

Average gross monthly salary-GES survey by MOE
http://www.salary.sg/2015/graduate-
employment-survey-2014-published-2015/

NTU Accountancy: 3003
NTU Accountancy & Biz 3597
SMU Accountancy 3903

BOOM. See what I did there? Suddenly, numbers
are increased/decreased by such a drastic amount.

Ok. at this point some of you may say it is not accurate to put
cum laude's
and honnors together because they are graded based on different
sets of criteria, and cum laude/honnors may be a independent
variable on its own. FINE. Let us factor out honors and
cum laude to get a clearer picture:

NTU Accountancy: 3597 (It would seem NTU does not
indicate hons student in this program from GES, that or its
grouped together)
NTU Accountancy & Biz 3003
SMU Accountancy 3420

Even after factoring out distinction and merit awards, it would seem single degree ntu vs smu, SMU comes out more on average pay by 400+ and lacks behind in NTU's Biz and accountancy by $177. This proves my point that CNA is again, tweaking the figures and showing selective data if you ever wondered why NUS Acc & Biz or SMU Acc & Biz were not shown in CNA compared to NTU's.


For those that still complaints that merit system and awards screw sup the data

NTU GPA award system
Top Tier degree award:4.50 - 5.00 First Class
2nd Tier degree award:4.00 – 4.49 2nd class upper
3rd Tier degree award3.50 – 3.99 2nd Class Lower
4th Tier degree award3.00 – 3.49 Third Class/pass with merit (3 year)
Lowest Tier degree award2.00 – 2.99 Pass


SMUGPA award system
Top Tier degree award:3.8+/4.0Summa Cum Laude (With Highest
Distinction)

2nd Tier degree award:3.60 – 3.79 / 4.0 Magna Cum Laude (High
Distinction)

3rd Tier degree award:3.40 – 3.59 / 4.0 Cum Laude (Distinction)
4th Tier degree award:3.20 – 3.39 / 4.0 High Merit
Lowest Tier degree award:3.00 – 3.19 / 4.0 Merit


Both uni's have got 5 categories of merit awards, with 2nd class lowers (NTU) and Cum Laude (SMU) being the "median merit/gpa" award.

However, if you notice here, you will realize NTU has an honnors classification below the median merit/gpa known as the "Third class". What does this mean?

It means that NTU has 4 tiers of degree classification as honnors and SMU on the other hand has got only 3 tiers of degree classification known as cum laude.

So what? how does this prove that merit awards won't skew the results?

This is where it gets interesting.

As you all know, almost all local U's in SG adopt something called the "bell curve system" what this means is there can be only a limited no, of people that can score a certain grade, A's, B's etc. meaning, schools can't "cheat" and give every one cum laudes or honors for free.

Now, if we to look at the graduate employment survey and assume that all courses that are part the main body population and separated from those (that receive cum laude/honnors):

SMU's accountancy's average pay (No cum laude) is 3420
NTU's accountancy's average pay (3 year direct honnors) is 3003
NTU's accountancy's + BIZ average pay is 3597

& look at the other sample/population that receive any form of cum laude awards (3 tiers) or honnors awards (4tiers)

SMU's accountancy's average pay ( cum laude) is 3903
NTU's accountancy's average pay (3 year direct honnors) is 3003
NTU's accountancy's + BIZ average pay is 3597


The above three results shows

a) SMU's accountancy's average shows the monthly pay of the 2 lowest tier of the student population with the lowest GPA, and they earn higher than those taking the 3 year direct honnors program

b) NTU's accountancy's average shows the monthly pay of the students from the 3 year direct honor's pogram whom are from the top 3 tiers of the GPA award system.


Heneforth, average gross monthly pay showed by the GES is a more accurate representation over the median based pay provided by CNN as the values of GES are distributed across all students population of the same category in a fair manner, and results are not selective and biased, which can skew or tweak the amount of pay per month.
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Last edited by Nosferato4; 02-03-2015 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:01 PM   #283
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The reason why median pay is more preferred over average pay is due to the exact reasons that you've listed above. Median is more accurate over average especially if the sample size is not normally distributive. One or two high earners can skew the average pay really high but the reality is that the average person would not earn that much. The median allows for a better picture when the deviation is too large, especially in SMU's case. Sure, SMU should be proud that it can produce a couple of high earners, but the average student should not bet on themselves being that high earner. Median is better than average, lets say a country does a salary census and finds out this:

Person A: $5/month
Person B:$5/month
Person C: $5/month
Person D: $5/month
Despotic ruler of the country: $10000000/mth

The average would be HUGE and not be representative of the income of the average person. A median would be much more accurate representation of the average person.

Im not sure where you got the last set of statistics, but I can tell that you're wrong. NTU's statistics does not seperate those who attained honours and those who didnt. They list it as (3 years direct honours programme), it means that there is no option to drop out at year 2 and just get a pass degree, everyone has to complete 3 years even if they cant get an honours. But it does not mean that everyone on the stats have honours.

This means, you cant compare NTU graduates results 1-to-1 with the other schools because if you compare it with no-honours from NUS/SMU, then NTU would be skewed higher because of the presence of honours grads in NTU's stats. If you compare it with honours grads from NUS/SMU, NTU's stats would be skewed lower because of the presence of no-honours grads that are lumped into NTU's statistics.

It is, of course, very regrettable, that NTU does not want to seperate the honours grads from the non-honours grads.

Furthermore, companies do take into account the very fact that NTU's biz degrees are only 3 years long as compared to NUS and SMU. One also has to factor the opportunity cost saved/earned from that 1 year of earlier graduation. A more accurate comparison would be between NUS stats and SMU's stats since both schools separate honours from non-honours grads.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:10 PM   #284
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@Nosferato4

1. median is a more robust measure of 'center' compared to mean due to the right skewed nature of income. The reason y average is higher than median is also because of this reason.

2. u r reading too much into the statistics and fitting in stories.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:58 PM   #285
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The reason why median pay is more preferred over average pay is due to the exact reasons that you've listed above. Median is more accurate over average especially if the sample size is not normally distributive. One or two high earners can skew the average pay really high but the reality is that the average person would not earn that much. The median allows for a better picture when the deviation is too large,
The accountancy intake for both ntu and smu is generally around 200-300 (based on intake observations around year 2010-2012 period) the CNA median values show the
monthly salaries if both ntu of smu (grad class of 2014) meaning they shud marticulate somewhere in 2010-2011.

If this is the case, deviation should still provide a fair comparison because if we think about this,

1) pop size is more or less the same
2) both schools (esp ntu is more established) in their acc program
3)both unis attract high paying rich employers and are on equal footing
Based on these 3 qualitative factors, deviation here do not play as much of a role (I could be wrong though, if what u are saying is some smu grads snag out of the world, ridiculous over paid job like ur albeit* drastic explanation regarding $1000000 :X)

especially in SMU's case. Sure, SMU should be proud that it can produce a couple of high earners, but the average student should not bet on themselves being that high earner. Median is better than average, lets say a country does a salary census and finds out this:

Person A: $5/month
Person B:$5/month
Person C: $5/month
Person D: $5/month
Despotic ruler of the country: $10000000/mth

The average would be HUGE and not be representative of the income of the average person. A median would be much more accurate representation of the average person.
Im not sure where you got the last set of statistics, but I can tell that you're wrong. NTU's statistics does not seperate those who attained honours and those who didnt. They list it as (3 years direct honours programme), it means that there is no option to drop out at year 2 and just get a pass degree, everyone has to complete 3 years even if they cant get an honours. But it does not mean that everyone on the stats have honours.



This means, you cant compare NTU graduates results 1-to-1 with the other schools because if you compare it with no-honours from NUS/SMU, then NTU would be skewed higher because of the presence of honours grads in NTU's stats. If you compare it with honours grads from NUS/SMU, NTU's stats would be skewed lower because of the presence of no-honours grads that are lumped into NTU's statistics.

It is, of course, very regrettable, that NTU does not want to seperate the honours grads from the non-honours grads.
That is the point I am trying to make. In my previous post I compared those from NTU 3 year direct honnors program vs SMU non cum-laude graduates.

It basically top 3 tier or (based on what u said all 5 tiers) of students whom score towards stellar results vs bottom 2 tier of students in smu that score towards "less than ideal" results.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything but (if as what u claim NTU dont seperate honnors student from its 3 year direct program in ntu acc) its still technically all 5 tiers vs bottom 2 tiers, and if that is the case, shouldn't NTU technically* score higher? Because they have students from the top 3 tier (s) of merit to pull up the score vs the 2 lowest tier of students from smu w/o anything to increase the average? o_O


Furthermore, companies do take into account the very fact that NTU's biz degrees are only 3 years long as compared to NUS and SMU. One also has to factor the opportunity cost saved/earned from that 1 year of earlier graduation. A more accurate comparison would be between NUS stats and SMU's stats since both schools separate honours from non-honours grads.
you do realize that students have a choice to choose between 3-4 years in ntu rite? I also did factor in the diff between 3-4 year course in ntu vs 4 year in smu.(Some students can grad there in 3-3.5 years too, but rare +challenging)
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