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Old 11-02-2019, 04:58 PM   #46
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Yeah, i doubt I will get a latest model, because I have a budget, unless the latest model price is really good (unlikely lol)

Yeah, and also... I keep thinking about other factors lah.

1) Do I really need that camera? I'm getting sick of my Samsung S7 edge camera, the low light performance is terrible, and I Intend to change to Huawei Mate 20 soon when my contract is up in a few weeks. Can the Mate 20 be a solid camera replacement?

2) How sure am I to be motivated to go out and take photos? I don't want to spend $800 just to have a paper weight at home. Also, I'm afraid that I will lose interest to take photos lol. I'm only confident that if I travel, I will spam a lot of photos while overseas. But in Singapore... That's another question.

3) Do I really want to carry a camera around everywhere I go? To be honest I am a victim of convenience, the last time I actually used a camera was when HP had crappy cameras before iPhone 4 days. My first smartphone was a iPhone 4 and after that, I never actually used a proper camera already.

Yeah, the above questions has been bugging me.

The most important thing to note here is that people can recommend cameras but they cannot persuade you to be a true photography enthusiast.

It's very obvious because you mention 1 sentence about S7 low light no good, but then you go on to have 2 paragraphs second-guessing whether it's 'worth it' to get a dedicated camera and whether you'd want to actually use the camera at all.

Anyone who reads that would instantly get the vibe that you care more about convenience rather than image quality. They could give you a small and compact Eos M100 and you'd probably still find some way to complain that it's not convenient cos it can't USB-charge then battery need to take out and charge separately etc etc.

Let's go back to your original post at the beginning of this thread where you said:
I like to take photos of landscape, animals, scenery, "street photography", plants etc

In your years of using the S7 how many photos of the above 5 subjects have you taken?

Believe it or not your 'terrible' smartphone can probably achieve a lot with the right techniques:

The NDP fireworks in 2016
https://i.imgur.com/vFeCUrE.jpg

Central Hong Kong from Victoria Peak
https://i.imgur.com/WvqBAdd.jpg

Stray cat at Punggol
https://i.imgur.com/fY0yIkm.jpg

The fountain of wealth at suntec
https://i.imgur.com/rLlYFAR.jpg

Orion's belt constellation on a clear night sky
https://i.imgur.com/4d3bC7d.jpg

...all these achieved by a smartphone, taken by someone who made time and effort to actually go out and shoot photos instead of feeling that it's too troublesome to lug around a tripod or wait 1hr for the proper sunset lightning etc.

Honestly I feel a dedicated camera is overkill for your standard, I mean come on in the same conversation where models like Sony A6000 and Canon M5 are mentioned, you actually asked for real if huawei mate 20 can be a viable option, as though a mate 20 is some kind of device that can literally compete with a APSC camera. If a smartphone could be enough to satisfy you, why bother the hassle of looking at digital cameras.

Last edited by chiaRH; 11-02-2019 at 05:28 PM..
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:34 AM   #47
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The most important thing to note here is that people can recommend cameras but they cannot persuade you to be a true photography enthusiast.

It's very obvious because you mention 1 sentence about S7 low light no good, but then you go on to have 2 paragraphs second-guessing whether it's 'worth it' to get a dedicated camera and whether you'd want to actually use the camera at all.

Anyone who reads that would instantly get the vibe that you care more about convenience rather than image quality. They could give you a small and compact Eos M100 and you'd probably still find some way to complain that it's not convenient cos it can't USB-charge then battery need to take out and charge separately etc etc.

Let's go back to your original post at the beginning of this thread where you said:
I like to take photos of landscape, animals, scenery, "street photography", plants etc

In your years of using the S7 how many photos of the above 5 subjects have you taken?

Believe it or not your 'terrible' smartphone can probably achieve a lot with the right techniques:

The NDP fireworks in 2016
https://i.imgur.com/vFeCUrE.jpg

Central Hong Kong from Victoria Peak
https://i.imgur.com/WvqBAdd.jpg

Stray cat at Punggol
https://i.imgur.com/fY0yIkm.jpg

The fountain of wealth at suntec
https://i.imgur.com/rLlYFAR.jpg

Orion's belt constellation on a clear night sky
https://i.imgur.com/4d3bC7d.jpg

...all these achieved by a smartphone, taken by someone who made time and effort to actually go out and shoot photos instead of feeling that it's too troublesome to lug around a tripod or wait 1hr for the proper sunset lightning etc.

Honestly I feel a dedicated camera is overkill for your standard, I mean come on in the same conversation where models like Sony A6000 and Canon M5 are mentioned, you actually asked for real if huawei mate 20 can be a viable option, as though a mate 20 is some kind of device that can literally compete with a APSC camera. If a smartphone could be enough to satisfy you, why bother the hassle of looking at digital cameras.

You have a valid point, well written and critiqued.

To answer your questions:

In your years of using the S7 how many photos of the above 5 subjects have you taken? - Around 1000 photos (in total, with burst shots to get the 'perfect' scene), if you count the real proper photos, definitely less.


The most important thing to note here is that people can recommend cameras but they cannot persuade you to be a true photography enthusiast - Right, I have an interest, but I feel overwhelmed by the broad range of photography hobby that offers. By overwhelmed I mean, the purpose of me taking photos, what do I want to achieve? Do I want to in invest 15 grand in top of the line glass and gears to go to shoot an F1 race, or to shoot a soccer match? Do I want a simple point and shoot to take normal photos. It's me, I need to "know" what I want to do with the camera. i'm still totally new to this, and in the midst to ponder what do I hope to achieve personally with a camera. You are right, there are a few who believes in a true photography enthusiast does not even require a proper standalone camera to shoot photos, any camera, even on a low end smartphone can do the job. A camera, is still a camera, regardless where it is built on. You got to have an eye of what to shoot. Just go out there and take photos.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:06 PM   #48
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Right, I have an interest, but I feel overwhelmed by the broad range of photography hobby that offers.

In general photography has mainly these aspects:


You are either shooting something that is A: closeup or B: far away

You are either shooting something that is A: stationary or B: moving

You are either shooting something in A: good lightning or B: not good lightning.

The "A" stuff tends to be easier than the "B" stuff. If your shooting subject has more "B" characteristics it's more difficult and requires more specialised gear (thats why people talk about using multiple lenses)

You don't really need to 'try' every kind of photography subject just focus on what you like. It'll be easier to base purchase decisions that way.

I dont understand why you say you are a newbie but then also say you dont know whether you want to spend 15 grand on top-end gear to shoot F1. That's like a person just learning to play the violin casually but at the same time already thinking of owning a million-dollar stradivarius or thinking about their next big gig at the Esplanade. Of course you have to be realistic when you're still starting at the bottom...

The purpose of you taking photos shouldn't be that hard to answer. You said you had 1000 shots on your S7. Actually so do most people. They just take photos for fun and because it's convenient. You can achieve that with your smartphone. You cannot achieve that with a DSLR/Mirrorless because carrying that device around represents extra inconvenience.


A camera, is still a camera, regardless where it is built on. You got to have an eye of what to shoot. Just go out there and take photos.
That is a good advice and you should listen to it before saying your S7 has terrible low light performance and dreaming about whether a "APSC" or whatever can overcome that shortcoming. Do you always shoot in auto? Because your S7 can do more than that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/astrophotog...ith_galaxy_s7/
Look at this person. With a tripod and some software, he found a way to get his S7 to capture the milky way.

If you're a forever auto type of person, who's to say that even with a 'proper' camera, you won't still shoot auto all the time and be too lazy to use manual modes cos of the 'effort' and 'inconvenience', who's to say you wont even bother looking at the lens market and stick to your kit lens forever, then wonder why the images are so underwhelming or maybe not even that much nicer than your smartphone.

Last edited by chiaRH; 12-02-2019 at 09:28 PM..
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Old 13-02-2019, 01:32 AM   #49
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Get a 2nd hand camera to start off.

If you get serious in photography, you will switch cameras and gears through your journey.

If you decide to give up, can sell off at around same price you bought. Entry level cameras not easy to sell near 1st hand price cause too many quit so a lot of these cameras in carousell.

I'll recommend Sony a6000 given your budget as a start with a 35mm lens. If you want flexibility, the kit lens should be good enough, but imo, zoom lens are a distraction to learning composition.

Photography is a hands-on skill that you learn through practice. I was humbled and amazed by how many controls and stuff I could do with the Nikon D5600 (my first camera). All the great photos and photographers you see in instagram etc, they took at least 2 years to get good. Any beginner dslr/mirrorless available in market now is more than enough for beginners.
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Old 13-02-2019, 11:26 AM   #50
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In general photography has mainly these aspects:


You are either shooting something that is A: closeup or B: far away

You are either shooting something that is A: stationary or B: moving

You are either shooting something in A: good lightning or B: not good lightning.

The "A" stuff tends to be easier than the "B" stuff. If your shooting subject has more "B" characteristics it's more difficult and requires more specialised gear (thats why people talk about using multiple lenses)

You don't really need to 'try' every kind of photography subject just focus on what you like. It'll be easier to base purchase decisions that way.

I dont understand why you say you are a newbie but then also say you dont know whether you want to spend 15 grand on top-end gear to shoot F1. That's like a person just learning to play the violin casually but at the same time already thinking of owning a million-dollar stradivarius or thinking about their next big gig at the Esplanade. Of course you have to be realistic when you're still starting at the bottom...

The purpose of you taking photos shouldn't be that hard to answer. You said you had 1000 shots on your S7. Actually so do most people. They just take photos for fun and because it's convenient. You can achieve that with your smartphone. You cannot achieve that with a DSLR/Mirrorless because carrying that device around represents extra inconvenience.




That is a good advice and you should listen to it before saying your S7 has terrible low light performance and dreaming about whether a "APSC" or whatever can overcome that shortcoming. Do you always shoot in auto? Because your S7 can do more than that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/astrophotog...ith_galaxy_s7/
Look at this person. With a tripod and some software, he found a way to get his S7 to capture the milky way.

If you're a forever auto type of person, who's to say that even with a 'proper' camera, you won't still shoot auto all the time and be too lazy to use manual modes cos of the 'effort' and 'inconvenience', who's to say you wont even bother looking at the lens market and stick to your kit lens forever, then wonder why the images are so underwhelming or maybe not even that much nicer than your smartphone.

Thanks for the reply! Your advice and thoughts really refreshed my thinking.

Here's my response to your questions

I dont understand why you say you are a newbie but then also say you dont know whether you want to spend 15 grand on top-end gear to shoot F1. That's like a person just learning to play the violin casually but at the same time already thinking of owning a million-dollar stradivarius or thinking about their next big gig at the Esplanade. Of course you have to be realistic when you're still starting at the bottom...

I'll use this analogy to describe easier. Imagine I say I want to start a food restaurant. Food is extremely general. What kind of food? Chinese, Western, Indian, Japanese, Italian, French etc... To makes things worst, Chinese food? What do I want to do? Soups? Stir Fried? Cantonese Food? Dim Sum?. I believe this analogy is the same as photography.

If you're a forever auto type of person, who's to say that even with a 'proper' camera, you won't still shoot auto all the time and be too lazy to use manual modes cos of the 'effort' and 'inconvenience', who's to say you wont even bother looking at the lens market and stick to your kit lens forever, then wonder why the images are so underwhelming or maybe not even that much nicer than your smartphone.

I've been using a good mix of Auto and Pro Mode ("manual') on my S7 edge since the beginning, Auto when I need to capture stuff quickly when travelling, Manual, when I take my own sweet time to learn and explore..
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Old 13-02-2019, 11:39 AM   #51
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Get a 2nd hand camera to start off.

If you get serious in photography, you will switch cameras and gears through your journey.

If you decide to give up, can sell off at around same price you bought. Entry level cameras not easy to sell near 1st hand price cause too many quit so a lot of these cameras in carousell.

I'll recommend Sony a6000 given your budget as a start with a 35mm lens. If you want flexibility, the kit lens should be good enough, but imo, zoom lens are a distraction to learning composition.

Photography is a hands-on skill that you learn through practice. I was humbled and amazed by how many controls and stuff I could do with the Nikon D5600 (my first camera). All the great photos and photographers you see in instagram etc, they took at least 2 years to get good. Any beginner dslr/mirrorless available in market now is more than enough for beginners.

My initial idea is, instead of paying for top of the line flagship phones just for their camera (and change phones every 2 - 3 years), I could actually save the money and invest in a A6000. Even if I lose total interest in photography, I can still use the A6000 as a general camera to snap photos with the kit lens. In that case, I can actually survive with a mid range smart phone with below average camera, and lug around the A6000 as a proper camera.
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Old 14-02-2019, 10:17 AM   #52
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I'll use this analogy to describe easier. Imagine I say I want to start a food restaurant. Food is extremely general. What kind of food? Chinese, Western, Indian, Japanese, Italian, French etc... To makes things worst, Chinese food? What do I want to do? Soups? Stir Fried? Cantonese Food? Dim Sum?. I believe this analogy is the same as photography.
It is also the same in the sense that if you havent decided what kind of cuisine you want to specialise in, you wouldn't already be going out to ask people what kind of cooking equipment or ingredients to buy, that is jumping the gun quite a bit. It's like saying "recommend me an oven but actually do I really want to be a baker I dont know".

That's why asking people for camera brand/model recommendations is quite pointless when you sound more like you're still at the stage deciding on whether you even want a camera or not.

With all the hesitation and second-guessing I don't see how anybody's recommendation can even be useful other than "buy a second hand unit that is within your budget".

Didn't you already say you went to the shop to see fuji/canon/sony? What will you do then? Try your last option Nikon and if still cannot, then give up and conclude that handling a camera body is not your cup of tea? (I assume olympus/panasonic being non APSC are dealbreakers for your criteria).


Even if I lose total interest in photography, I can still use the A6000 as a general camera to snap photos with the kit lens. In that case, I can actually survive with a mid range smart phone with below average camera, and lug around the A6000 as a proper camera.
I feel that this is a bit of a contradictory statement.

If you lose interest in photography, you likely won't use the A6000 for anything, period. Your 'general camera' will revert back to being the only thing that you bother carrying all the time 100%, your smartphone. The A6000 becomes the thing that is too troublesome to bring, rather than the thing you love to use for photography.

I can guarantee you that you will never carry your mirrorless with you around all the time. It's not like a smartphone where it's a 'convenience' device that is so easy to slip into your pocket all the time it's like bringing your wallet/house keys. You have to make a conscious effort just to 'lug around' the camera. Do you know camera bags are a thing? You have to bring along a bag with you all the time just to store the camera unless you want it dangling from your neck constantly.
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Old 15-02-2019, 02:00 AM   #53
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I think Byfrost should just get a Google pixel phone and case closed.
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Old 16-02-2019, 10:24 PM   #54
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Maybe he decided to not start on photography after 4 pages. Case close. Hehe
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Old 18-02-2019, 12:13 AM   #55
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do u think its worth to get a camera if i dont have passion

Maybe he decided to not start on photography after 4 pages. Case close. Hehe
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Old 18-02-2019, 01:40 AM   #56
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do u think its worth to get a camera if i dont have passion
it is not about passion it is about how much you use the thing that determines if you got your money's worth out of buying it

you can be a passionate photographer and over-invest in gear and end up with lenses you barely ever use at all, there is no worth in that
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Old 18-02-2019, 11:28 AM   #57
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Maybe he decided to not start on photography after 4 pages. Case close. Hehe
I'm still considering, it's still a maybe. More like I am thinking about the direction I want to venture into, before I make any purchase.
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Old 18-02-2019, 11:34 AM   #58
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do u think its worth to get a camera if i dont have passion
it is not about passion it is about how much you use the thing that determines if you got your money's worth out of buying it

you can be a passionate photographer and over-invest in gear and end up with lenses you barely ever use at all, there is no worth in that
To add on, make sure you have a 'purpose /goal / aim' in mind on what photos to take, before buying a camera.

Using a camera is one thing, I can easily (with 2 or 3 spare batteries) walk on the streets and spam my camera shoot button and shoot about 1.5k to 2k photos a day. Anyone can boast "look, I have 60k photos after a month of shooting" "the camera very worth it sia based on the amount of photos taken"

But ask yourself, in that 60k photos taken in a month, what's is your purpose / goal / aim in mind by doing that? Passion is one thing, but even if you don't have the passion, make sure you have a purpose / goal / aim to achieve in a camera before buying it, this is something myself is still considering.
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Old 18-02-2019, 02:19 PM   #59
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Passion is one thing, but even if you don't have the passion, make sure you have a purpose / goal / aim to achieve in a camera before buying it, this is something myself is still considering.
If you're a hobbyist using a smartphone for photography then the purpose of course is to take photos for fun. Whether its 60 bad photos or 6 good ones if you had your entertainment, that's your fulfuillment achieved.

It's the same rationale even if you swap out your smartphone for a camera body that costs a 4 figure sum and 3 lenses each costing also a 4-figure sum. Expensive hobby yes but that's just how it is in the market. Smartphones have their oneplus and xiaomi offering flagship specs at value price but no such thing in camera industry hence the premium prices.


I think your problem is you are overthinking your purchase decision, like you think cameras are highly specialised that each model is only good at 1 or 2 things so you really have to choose super carefully else you will be 'locked down' in terms of what you can or cannot shoot when in reality cameras are designed to work with a lot of scenarios thanks to their zooming capability and lens ecosystem.

But let's be real you're a casual, how demanding can your requirements possibly be? If you buy a Sony A6000 are you going to give a damn that it can't shoot 4k and has no image stabilization (FYI it really can't). It's APSC and it is travel-portable, and with the right lenses it can do anything from wide to telephoto zoom given the maturity of the E mount ecosystem. That fits your initial 3 criteria. It's a no brainer. If you have new criteria down the road you work within the constraints of your gear, or you get new gear.


But ask yourself, in that 60k photos taken in a month, what's is your purpose / goal / aim in mind by doing that?
You have to ask yourself why is it so hard to fathom that you are a hobbyist and just wanna take photos for fun. You already have a purpose, and you have no other purpose besides that since you're clearly not doing any photography work for clients.

Is it harder to justify the purchase if you're only using it for hobby and you feel it's not worth? Then don't buy simple as that.

Is it hard to justify the purchase if you don't know what 'type' of photography you want to do? That is nonsense. Any camera with enough lens selection can cater to any needs, barring extreme scenarios like sports in low light which I 100% guarantee you won't be doing if you're a newbie to photography armed with only a APSC camera and kit lens.
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Old 18-02-2019, 10:25 PM   #60
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I'm still considering, it's still a maybe. More like I am thinking about the direction I want to venture into, before I make any purchase.
I think I hit the nail.
You can compare all the specs online. if I were a salesperson and see you every now and then looking ask this ask that, I think any sales would also gradually siam u la. Waste my time. Hehe. This commission I forgo also no heart pain.
Don’t get me wrong. it’s not a matter of recommending you a camera. It is more like recommending whether u should take up photography seriously with a standalone cam.

Hey if $1500 is loose change to you, u can easily pick a “semi-pro” camera with decent lens. Already recommended loaning a camera from a friend, getting 2nd hand..... these will zero/lower your cash outlay.

Nuff said.
PS: the new phones really have newer tech and they really squeeze a lot into the phone these days.
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