Professional Conversion Programme for Registered Nurses/Nanyang Polytechnic Diploma in Nursing(PCP)

Kyoji83

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I suppose there will be quite alot of desperate people who would sign up to any pcp which gives an allowance and a guaranteed job at the end of the studies.


Not all PCP have available information such as allowance. People chose PCP because of interest to work in that occupation & not because the allowance is high. We do not have the option to reject the allowance too. Majorly of my batch including me do not hope to get allowance if possible.


But everyone must remember that nursing is a job which requires passion in order to last. Without that passion, studying and even working as a nurse will be a few years of hell. I suppose the large LD is to persuade people to think carefully before signing up. Alternatively, the program should have a "free-look" period for participants to quit in the first 3 months at a low LD of they find they are not cut out for nursing.


I agree with you that they should have a "free-look" period for participants to quit in the first 3 months at a low LD.

However they create an unfriendly environment for PCP applicant.

Before you get to see the Contract, you are force to sign Letter of Undertaking for $1K of Liquidated Damages (LD) if you decided not to take up PCP sponsorship after NYP offer you a seat.

Who would like to pay $1K for nothing & since applicant are interest in PCP, of course they will proceed to sign the contract because they don't expect to fail since they never thought that training provider and the assessment is this kind of standard.
 

Kyoji83

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They will also consider those who have less then 2 years of working experience. Don't worry, your LD will be cheaper then PCP-RN cause unlike NYP who charge a high sky course fees without giving government funding like MOE tuition grant, SUSS charge a reasonable course fees with government funding.

My e2i executive workshop (especially for unemployed) classmates & I do not have a good experience for PCP. Only the freelance e2i trainers claim that they have benefits from it.

One thing bad about PCP is you will only get to sign your employment contract after graduating from course & you have no say for your salary package (wages, working hours, benefits & etc) because of your sponsorship bond.

Another thing is after bond, most of the PCP only lead you to have WSQ qualification or worst, no proper qualification. So when you want to change company for similar jobs in the industry, you found out that no one is going to hire you due to lack of qualification. However the good thing for you is at least for PCP for Social Workers, your qualification is a local university degree.


Hi, really interested in PCP program for Social Workers. But I currently just grad and studied biz dip. So just started working in 3months and need to clock 2 years min. experience. Is PCP overall not so good or mainly for RN?
 

missyMoon

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My Thoughts.....

After reading this thread, I cant help it but to LOL to some of the things mention about PCP.... thou to a certain extent I agree on some part about the high LD amount..

I think its up to individual to manage and cope with the 2yr course... Need a lot of self-discipline too... Its right that the 2yr studies and clinical attachment are not easy, but lecturers, classmates and clinical instructors are there to help... Just have to open up "golden mouth" to ask for help..

Nursing is a job where you need a lot of teamwork, critical thinking, interaction skills, and be very observant...
BUT if those individuals who are anti-social, don't enjoy group work and loner.... then I think this course is not suitable for them... Being a LONER, its impossible to sustain the 2yr course.... Can't imagine that....

But I have got a very observant classmate who is a person with few words but has excellent critical thinking and interaction skills with patients is superb, especially with older patients..

NYP is teaching the fundamentals of nursing skills and the necessary expectations(safety issues to ensure that no harm is done to the patient) needed for lab test... if not able to attain fundamental skills taught in NYP, how to nurse your patients in hospital if your hospital P&P is more complex?
Eventually, when we are back in our hospital after graduated, we need to follow our hospital P&P... Different hospital has different P&P... So we cant expect NYP to teach all right?

So to those Singaporeans and PR... if you got the passion in nursing, just try.... With the passion, I guess everything is possible... Jia you!! At least for me, I didn't think about the LD, as my objective is to graduate and be a nurse..

To those who have passion in nursing, feel free to PM me if u have any questions... but dont ask about LD amount... different hospital has different amount....

PCP RN graduate
 

Kyoji83

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missyMoon, you created this account today just to address this thread with one post in hwz?


After reading this thread, I cant help it but to LOL to some of the things mention about PCP.... thou to a certain extent I agree on some part about the high LD amount..

I think its up to individual to manage and cope with the 2yr course... Need a lot of self-discipline too... Its right that the 2yr studies and clinical attachment are not easy, but lecturers, classmates and clinical instructors are there to help... Just have to open up "golden mouth" to ask for help..


We are all adults & we will open our "golden mouth" to ask for help if needed since failure is never an option in our mind. Only situation will force us to withdraw or fail the course. Let be fair, there are good lecturers in NYP too. You have good lecturers for all modules does not mean my class have good lecturers for all modules. There are incompetent lecturers too.


Nursing is a job where you need a lot of teamwork, critical thinking, interaction skills, and be very observant...
BUT if those individuals who are anti-social, don't enjoy group work and loner.... then I think this course is not suitable for them... Being a LONER, its impossible to sustain the 2yr course.... Can't imagine that....

But I have got a very observant classmate who is a person with few words but has excellent critical thinking and interaction skills with patients is superb, especially with older patients..


It is a good point to share in this thread. Being a LONER is hard to sustain the course because we are involved in heavy group work. I would like to add on that there were group politics between classmates & it was different when I was studying in other full/part time courses, so be prepare. For me, I never have an issues with my subgroup and classmates. I am also well-like by my patients.


NYP is teaching the fundamentals of nursing skills and the necessary expectations(safety issues to ensure that no harm is done to the patient) needed for lab test... if not able to attain fundamental skills taught in NYP, how to nurse your patients in hospital if your hospital P&P is more complex?
Eventually, when we are back in our hospital after graduated, we need to follow our hospital P&P... Different hospital has different P&P... So we cant expect NYP to teach all right?


Full time student trained in Nursing Lab 1A & attend Clinical Placement 1A in semester 1 & they will take Nursing Lab 1B & attend Clinical Placement 1B in semester 2. PCP student trained in only Nursing Lab 1A but attended Clinical Placement 1A & partial 1B in semester 1. Similar things are happening in semester 2 & 3. In short, PCP student are assess in Clinical Placement when they are not trained but during pre-Clinical Placement briefing, student are told not to perform skills if you are not trained. Why is this so & is this safe?

I was in charge of 2 cubicles alone (1 cubicle is 6 bedded) & 1 of them is fall risk cubicle as a Nursing Student while my RNs for this 2 cubicles went for their meal. The only help is those staffs who walk pass my cubicles or I illegal (No one should leave fall risk cubicle unattended) walk over to next cubicle or ward counter to ask RN for help. This is a norm in that hospital ward & this is not even PRCP level. Why is this so & is this safe?

Everything have good & bad side. I don't encourage PCP-RN students & graduates only paint the good side of it. It good to let the public especially prospective student to know the bad side to make a good judgement if this is what they want.


So to those Singaporeans and PR... if you got the passion in nursing, just try.... With the passion, I guess everything is possible... Jia you!! At least for me, I didn't think about the LD, as my objective is to graduate and be a nurse..

To those who have passion in nursing, feel free to PM me if u have any questions... but dont ask about LD amount... different hospital has different amount....

PCP RN graduate

To missyMoon, jiayou for your nursing career.
 

missyMoon

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missyMoon, you created this account today just to address this thread with one post in hwz?

Eh no la.... use to have an account long long time ago....but cant rem the login details.... I was searching for some info on PCP allowance and chance upon this link....

We are all adults & we will open our "golden mouth" to ask for help if needed since failure is never an option in our mind. Only situation will force us to withdraw or fail the course. Let be fair, there are good lecturers in NYP too. You have good lecturers for all modules does not mean my class have good lecturers for all modules. There are incompetent lecturers too.

Incompetent lecturers...definitely have..... how to solve it.... do ur own pre-reading before class...? ask other competent lecturer for help....? Ask classmate for help...? Definitely got solution to solve it... NYP lecturer will go all the way to help the students if they think need a lot of support....

It is a good point to share in this thread. Being a LONER is hard to sustain the course because we are involved in heavy group work. I would like to add on that there were group politics between classmates & it was different when I was studying in other full/part time courses, so be prepare. For me, I never have an issues with my subgroup and classmates. I am also well-like by my patients.

Oh politics oso have.... how leh? We are adults lo.... trash it out lo.... whether as a group or class.... end of the day we have the same objective.... jus have to move on.....pass and graduate...

Full time student trained in Nursing Lab 1A & attend Clinical Placement 1A in semester 1 & they will take Nursing Lab 1B & attend Clinical Placement 1B in semester 2. PCP student trained in only Nursing Lab 1A but attended Clinical Placement 1A & partial 1B in semester 1. Similar things are happening in semester 2 & 3. In short, PCP student are assess in Clinical Placement when they are not trained but during pre-Clinical Placement briefing, student are told not to perform skills if you are not trained. Why is this so & is this safe?

I think this depend on the sponsored hospital u are in.... some reali get alot of help from hospital clinical instructor.... or NYP clinical instructor... not trained of cos dont do... can do other things.... go find EN for help.... if can wait then explain to patient, if u are well liked by patient they will accept ur explanation... defintely got solution.... critical thinking... rem?
Pre-reading for those skills not trained defintely will help...

Nursing lab need alot of practice....you need to rationalize those step by step lab skills learnt then u will know and rem the importance of each step...this part is safety issue...so fundamental skills is impt.... without this skills you cant even go out for clinical placement....

I was in charge of 2 cubicles alone (1 cubicle is 6 bedded) & 1 of them is fall risk cubicle as a Nursing Student while my RNs for this 2 cubicles went for their meal. The only help is those staffs who walk pass my cubicles or I illegal (No one should leave fall risk cubicle unattended) walk over to next cubicle or ward counter to ask RN for help. This is a norm in that hospital ward & this is not even PRCP level. Why is this so & is this safe?

If u feel u are incompetent to be in charge of 2 cubicles then learn to speak up.... speak to NYP clinical instructor...take initiative to approach any staff... doesnt work if approach RN then speak to sister from the ward... *btw no hospital will allow a student to b incharge of 2 cubicles, unless they got alot of money to get sued by patient if something were to happen*

Or do u mean u are an incharge for junior work? But that wont happen too... unless you are doing PRCP.....

There are so many options you can take.....

Everything have good & bad side. I don't encourage PCP-RN students & graduates only paint the good side of it. It good to let the public especially prospective student to know the bad side to make a good judgement if this is what they want.

Hmmmm I believe this part I already mention... The studies not easy.... support from hospital oso not easy.... so speak up will b the best solution if you have any concern...

Anyway these are my thots... so its up to others to read and determine what is best for themselves...

Nursing need constant reading and practice.... No human being are born with these set of skills.... so learn and practice....

1 truthful advice to everyone who is thinking of changing line to nursing.... if you have no passion and patience in nursing then it's better not to try....


To missyMoon, jiayou for your nursing career.

Thank you. :) & Good night....
 

Kyoji83

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Eh no la.... use to have an account long long time ago....but cant rem the login details.... I was searching for some info on PCP allowance and chance upon this link....


I wonder why are you searching for some info on PCP allowance when you have already graduated? Just kinda curious there...


Incompetent lecturers...definitely have..... how to solve it.... do ur own pre-reading before class...? ask other competent lecturer for help....? Ask classmate for help...? Definitely got solution to solve it... NYP lecturer will go all the way to help the students if they think need a lot of support....


Sorry but I don't believe that NYP lecturer will go all the way to help the students just because they think need a lot of support.

As for what you have stated, I believe all PCP students have try their best on their own study plans.


Oh politics oso have.... how leh? We are adults lo.... trash it out lo.... whether as a group or class.... end of the day we have the same objective.... jus have to move on.....pass and graduate...

I think this depend on the sponsored hospital u are in.... some reali get alot of help from hospital clinical instructor.... or NYP clinical instructor... not trained of cos dont do... can do other things.... go find EN for help.... if can wait then explain to patient, if u are well liked by patient they will accept ur explanation... defintely got solution.... critical thinking... rem?
Pre-reading for those skills not trained defintely will help...

Nursing lab need alot of practice....you need to rationalize those step by step lab skills learnt then u will know and rem the importance of each step...this part is safety issue...so fundamental skills is impt.... without this skills you cant even go out for clinical placement....


The thing is we should not even discuss about hospital/NYP clinical instructor for this matter.

In the first place, NYP design and execute the curriculum which include the training & assessment for PCP-RN.

NYP deem fit that PCP-RN students MUST attend partial Clinical Placement 1B in semester 1 without any training from Nursing Lab 1B and similar things are happening in semester 2 & 3.

This is the most non-professional curriculum for educational institution that I ever seen.

It also raise a safety concern issue when PCP-RN student face a dilemma if they should perform a nursing skill on a patient for their assessment when they are not trained or crash course for it.


If u feel u are incompetent to be in charge of 2 cubicles then learn to speak up.... speak to NYP clinical instructor...take initiative to approach any staff... doesnt work if approach RN then speak to sister from the ward... *btw no hospital will allow a student to b incharge of 2 cubicles, unless they got alot of money to get sued by patient if something were to happen*

Or do u mean u are an incharge for junior work? But that wont happen too... unless you are doing PRCP.....

There are so many options you can take.....


You should know that hospital/NYP clinical instructors may not be around most of the time.

You should also know that ENs are flooding headcount that does not limited to one cubicle but the whole ward and they have things to do like serving meals, assist patients to bath & etc.

In the first place, SOP (No one should leave fall risk cubicle unattended) is set by hospital & ward RNs (nursing managers, assistant nurse clinicians, senior staff nurses, staffs nurses) should know about this.

RNs should enforce the SOPs instead of Nursing Student to remind them & worst of all, they still carry on with their meal & let Nursing Student to manage 2 cubicles because Nursing Student is competent to do so. Ward Managers walk pass see this like a norm and nothing happen next.


Hmmmm I believe this part I already mention... The studies not easy.... support from hospital oso not easy.... so speak up will b the best solution if you have any concern...

Anyway these are my thots... so its up to others to read and determine what is best for themselves...

Nursing need constant reading and practice.... No human being are born with these set of skills.... so learn and practice....

1 truthful advice to everyone who is thinking of changing line to nursing.... if you have no passion and patience in nursing then it's better not to try....


Thank you. :) & Good night....


Since you touch on 'pre-reading before class', 'Nursing need constant reading and practice & etc, I would also like to share this to the public.

Each chapter is around 1 hour lesson which is the reason by around week 8, you will have your exam for that module(s) which mean around week 4, you will have your test(s).

Not forgetting you still have group projects and to watch stupid VOD videos that can only access in school in order to present in class.

If you have family commitment like children, you will lesser time for yourself such as self study.

Oh, forget to mention that there are a few divorce (or BGR breakup) cases because no time to spend with spouse and children.

And maybe financial problem too cause allowance is not enough to cover family expenses.

So better think carefully (& discuss with spouse) before committing to PCP-RN.
 

Kyoji83

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I have a close friend who is from PCP-RN. He is sponsor by a private community hospital (almost like a Nursing Home) & he graduated from NYP. Fresh graduate will get 'provisional' licence & needs to pass their provision to get full licence.

Private community hospital do not have much budget which they rely on foreigners for position like nurses for low wages and they do not have a proper documents for performance training like logbook.

So my close friend claim that the hospital did not calculate their budget properly & now want to 'kick him out while recover some money from liquidated damages'. They fail his provision period & extend few months (last chance before his licence revoked). Since his ward, only he is a local while the rest are foreigners. So foreigners do not have problem to 'assist' in failing him cause he is the odd one out. Those who are sponsored by public hospital may not face this bad situation as him.

His liquidated damages (LD) in his contract is around $160+K & after working for more then 6 months, his hospital share with him that his LD still remain $120+K. This lead him to depression and suicidal thoughts.

So I advice anyone who want to join PCP to think twice especially related to healthcare like PCP-RN.
 

inzpiral88

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I have a close friend who is from PCP-RN. He is sponsor by a private community hospital (almost like a Nursing Home) & he graduated from NYP. Fresh graduate will get 'provisional' licence & needs to pass their provision to get full licence.

Private community hospital do not have much budget which they rely on foreigners for position like nurses for low wages and they do not have a proper documents for performance training like logbook.

So my close friend claim that the hospital did not calculate their budget properly & now want to 'kick him out while recover some money from liquidated damages'. They fail his provision period & extend few months (last chance before his licence revoked). Since his ward, only he is a local while the rest are foreigners. So foreigners do not have problem to 'assist' in failing him cause he is the odd one out. Those who are sponsored by public hospital may not face this bad situation as him.

His liquidated damages (LD) in his contract is around $160+K & after working for more then 6 months, his hospital share with him that his LD still remain $120+K. This lead him to depression and suicidal thoughts.

So I advice anyone who want to join PCP to think twice especially related to healthcare like PCP-RN.

After reading your post in the forum, I must thank you for the insights of the PCP conversion programme. I had applied for the PCP for Physiotherapy, but i wasn't shortlisted for the course eventually. A lot of times, I have been asking myself if I should also try out for Nursing as well, however, i know this isn't my cup of tea. Also given the fact that it's an accelerated 2 years course instead of a 3 years course, something just tells me things are not quite right. After reading what you had discussed in HWZ, I am very thankful for you to share in this forum. Everyone can know better before joining for any conversion programme course in the future. I guess the same things should apply in the PCP Physiotherapy course that I applied last year. I was relatively concerned on the liquidated damages because there was no way where I can get to know the amount. I was hopeful in getting a successful interview first before finding out what the LD amounts to. Like what you had said, the liquidated damages may not amount up to $125K, and this was drafted in their brochures. I am also quite shocked that the contract was only presented after signing the Letter of Undertaking. Seems to be me that there are lot of things that was untold of before joining/ signing the Letter of Undertaking as I believe at that point of time, your interest in the the RN course comes first before anything else. This includes the understanding of the qualification recognition as well.
 

Kyoji83

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Last time, PCP for Physiotherapy (PCP-P) is at Diploma level. If not wrong, PCP-P will still get government subsidies like tuition grants cause it is the same 3 years course as full time. This mean LD amounts will be much lower compare to 2 years PCP-RN.

Now, PCP-P is at Degree level which is the reason why it is more expensive. But PCP-P still get government subsidies like tuition grants to bring down the LD while this is not given to PCP-RN.

So all courses like PCP-P, you will know how much the course fees & able to give you details information like LD. Only PCP-RN, it is up to NYP to give a course fees after class start. Individual will needs to go NYP office to get the invoice to know the actual amount of course fees & use the calculation formula in sponsorship deed to know your actual LD amount.

Don't ask me why this is double standard. Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

It is up to Auditor General's Office (AGO) to question:

1) Why did NYP charge a high price or unacceptable purchasing procedures?

2) Why MOE give Singaporeans & PRs Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP) but NYP did not apply for it?


After reading your post in the forum, I must thank you for the insights of the PCP conversion programme. I had applied for the PCP for Physiotherapy, but i wasn't shortlisted for the course eventually. A lot of times, I have been asking myself if I should also try out for Nursing as well, however, i know this isn't my cup of tea. Also given the fact that it's an accelerated 2 years course instead of a 3 years course, something just tells me things are not quite right. After reading what you had discussed in HWZ, I am very thankful for you to share in this forum. Everyone can know better before joining for any conversion programme course in the future. I guess the same things should apply in the PCP Physiotherapy course that I applied last year. I was relatively concerned on the liquidated damages because there was no way where I can get to know the amount. I was hopeful in getting a successful interview first before finding out what the LD amounts to. Like what you had said, the liquidated damages may not amount up to $125K, and this was drafted in their brochures. I am also quite shocked that the contract was only presented after signing the Letter of Undertaking. Seems to be me that there are lot of things that was untold of before joining/ signing the Letter of Undertaking as I believe at that point of time, your interest in the the RN course comes first before anything else. This includes the understanding of the qualification recognition as well.
 

Kyoji83

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Just for Information

Nursing School like NYP will pay Hospital (HP) to train their Nursing Students (NS).

NYP will get their own Clinical Instructor (CI) (Most of them are part timer or freelancer) to 'supervise & coordinate' between NYP, HP & NS.

HP will get their own CI to train NS.

For PRCP (pre-registration consolidation posting), NS will be mentor under a Clinical Preceptor (CP).


----------------------------------------


Just for Sharing

I have a Senior who claim that during PRCP, CP is happily chatting with her friends instead of mentoring him.

NS were trained to observe their surrounding & know that his CP comment badly about his PRCP performance to NYP CI.

When NYP fail him, he appeal & requested a meeting (NYP Management, NYP CI, HP Management, HP CI & CP) & start to shoot back them.

If his PRCP performance is bad, why CP is not there to mentor & correct him?

CP fail him but why NYP CI did not even interview him before failing him (Before fail him, NYP CI needs to write in report the reason of failing. Really is blindly copy CP comment & paste it on report)?

HP CI know what happen long ago from NS & ask what can she help but inside meeting, she keep quiet.

NYP Management (& Staffs) always wayang & roti prata their statement as per what my senior claim. I encounter it myself firsthand. NYP Management is not there to help him investigate & assist his appeal. First tell him to just pay (Around $7K if I am not wrong) for PRCP 3rd time. Then he tell them if NYP provide free PRCP 3rd time, he will go. Then NYP say according to policy, he should be out of course cause he can only fail 2 times. He ask NYP to show policy & NYP say cannot show. Then NYP keep chasing him cause they only interested to ask him withdraw from PCP-RN course. NYP is always not consistent with their statement.


----------------------------------------


My thought

One of the nurse role is to be patient's advocate & nurse educator should be student's advocate. Where is the advocate when nursing students needs them the most?

I feels disgusting because Nurse (Educator) should not act hallowed & put similar things to your job description & etc if you cannot uphold it!
 

inzpiral88

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Last time, PCP for Physiotherapy (PCP-P) is at Diploma level. If not wrong, PCP-P will still get government subsidies like tuition grants cause it is the same 3 years course as full time. This mean LD amounts will be much lower compare to 2 years PCP-RN.

Now, PCP-P is at Degree level which is the reason why it is more expensive. But PCP-P still get government subsidies like tuition grants to bring down the LD while this is not given to PCP-RN.

So all courses like PCP-P, you will know how much the course fees & able to give you details information like LD. Only PCP-RN, it is up to NYP to give a course fees after class start. Individual will needs to go NYP office to get the invoice to know the actual amount of course fees & use the calculation formula in sponsorship deed to know your actual LD amount.

Don't ask me why this is double standard. Normally, a seller will give a price for the product to be consider by the buyer. However I am surprise why this work another way when the buyers (WDA, MOH, MOHH and sponsoring hospitals) willing to buy the product before the seller (NYP) even give the actual price.

It is up to Auditor General's Office (AGO) to question:

1) Why did NYP charge a high price or unacceptable purchasing procedures?

2) Why MOE give Singaporeans & PRs Tuition Grant for studying full-time Diploma in Nursing (PCP) but NYP did not apply for it?

Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.
 
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Kyoji83

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Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?


This is just my personal believe. In the first place, this is not medical degree & hospitals do not have the interest to have sponsored courses like nursing diploma to 'place & trained' candidates. They can save training cost to hire fresh graduates directly. To save on labour cost, they can hire foreigners. To add on, they can fill in manpower directly instead of waiting for 2 to 3 years for candidates to graduate from nursing school. This is how private sector work. Singapore government always value Foreigners over Singaporeans which is the reason why government wish to attract young foreigners to be PR & bond them to work in Singapore. When Singaporeans start to complaint of the unequal treatment, government then started to offer to Singaporeans. If their employees are consider more like a 'liability' rather then 'assets', I think companies should already expected that employees will leave when the bond end.


I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.


Yes, it true. But the things is if you find out more information about how PCP work for both employer (& employee), it does not attract employer to offer PCP. Some dare to try once & decided not to do it again.

For example, PCP for Professional Executives.

At employer level, they must pay & sent you for useless WSQ modules (from a list to chose from) for up to around 12 days that mostly is not useful to your job. After you are on course, employer still needs to find someone cover you. Only benefits is government co-fund partially your salary & course fees for 3 months but must follow government regulations to get that money.

At employee point of view, what the use of 3 months OJT if employer decided not to hire you & you consider as 'intern' experience? The WSQ modules certificate are useless to find job outside.


I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.


Unfair term are void sometime in the contract law. They have no right to bond you & unless they lost something like money to sent you to course. I think they pay an allowance since you are under 'sponsorship'. 'Sponsorship' & employment contract is different & it side more towards the employer when it come to termination clause.
 

zidmosby

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Hi all, just wanted to add in my two cents.

To be honest, I applied for PCP-RN as an "easy" way out of unemployment. However I did do ample research and asked many current nurses on their honest opinion on their jobs. I wanted to make an informed decision before I sign contract (if I was selected) despite needing a flow of income badly.

The interview process is as followed:

1. Group to be in a holding room
2. Group briefing by MOH personnel
3. Panel interview individually

While in the holding room, I chatted with a few other candidates - some were like me who were hoping to secure stability and some claimed to pursue their nursing passion.

Just out of curiosity, for any nurses who are reading this, I am not sure how one wakes up and knows instantly they want to embark in this career, or any other career for that matter. I am really quite interested to know how the passion sparked and if that passion sustains over time? For those that joined PCP, would you still look for other ways to join nursing if the PCP did not exist, or would you just drop the idea?

Continuing on. We went into the briefing and they informed us of several things:

1. To be fully aware that PCP requires 101% commitment from each candidate due to the accelerated coursework. They showed us a sample of our schedule for the next two years in tiny fonts - think of it as a show and tell session rather than us actually being able to see the paper and absorb the information. They did highlight that we will have very little time and to inform our family/spouses/children to understand that PCP comes first.

2. They then mentioned that the reason PCP has to come first is because of the LD that incurs. They phrased it in such a way that it is in everybody's best interest for the candidate to put PCP first so that everyone wins, in the sense that candidates do not incur LD and the employer gets a candidate by the time graduation has occurred.

3. During this time, it was then informed that should a candidate fail a module, repayment fee is the candidate's responsibility and sponsors will not pay you allowance for the term extension. At any point of time, you may get a letter saying that they will no longer need you to participate in this program. Even if this was their choice, you are still liable for LD.

4. They did tell us of a few candidates that dropped out due to their own personal commitment and/or those who were unable to cope with the accelerated version and are now in high debt. I would like to point that the way they mentioned this was in a very "matter of fact" way and with little to no sympathy. I asked on the candidate drop out rate and they seemed very hesitant to inform this but mentioned it was around 20% or 5 pax per intake.

5. Your actual salary after graduation is subjected to the sponsoring companies. Which means that you may or may not get lesser but they were upfront to mention that usually candidates can be around the $2000-$2200 range but again, graduate first and then see what you are offered. But if you think again, you don't really have a say. You sign the PCP contract, you just have to serve it out and seek better employment after that.

Next, we went into another holding room and wait to be called for panel interview. I would note that most are young students rather than actual mid career switchers. When I was called in, here was my experience:

1. They did not like my resume. They questioned why my qualifications are different than the jobs I have worked. This was apparently a concern for them as if I commit to PCP, the next 5 years is in a specified field and they felt that my employment record is a liability and it indicated I am unable to stick to a field.

2. They asked if I knew anything about nursing. I told them that I have asked others on their experience. They somehow took offence to this and said that no matter how many people I ask, I still will not know the exact job scope a nurse does through everyday. I told them that it is impossible for me to know exactly what a nurse goes through for the simple fact that I am not a nurse! That is where the two years study and clinical placement comes in to help me transition. They told me to volunteer in nursing homes and help clean patients etc to get a feel of what nurses to. I told them I was unaware of such programmes i.e. letting a volunteer with no professional qualification to help care for a patient. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen if this really exists!

3. They noted that I have employer testimonials and I said that I had close relationships with all my superiors and that this bond has enabled me to grow and develop my potential in each workplace. They did not like this as they said that to be a nurse, patients come first. In their words, "you cannot run to your supervisor to everything".

4. When they asked if I had any questions, I asked what was the support for nurses who wanted to further their studies as I understand nurses need to work long hours/shift. They answered accordingly but made a point to tell me that this question signifies I place an importance on myself rather than my patients and that was unacceptable.

All in all, they basically did not like that I was not a fresh faced graduate :s13:

I suppose they were looking for people who could just bow down to what they wanted to enforce and not talk back if there was unfairness happening. As you can tell, I obviously did not get into the program. I actually got into a different PCP which was more of OJT rather than "study first, work later". I enjoyed myself very much and it opened up more doors for me after I completed it.

To those that are thinking of going for the "study first, work later" kind of PCP, I would encourage you to do a thorough research on the career you want and if you can cope with the pressure. It is a good program on paper but the reality of it may or may not be just as great. Of course your own commitment is a factor, but ultimately I would just suggest for those interested to think first on how you will pay back the LD before you sign up. If you have nothing to lose, go for it.
 

zidmosby

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Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.

I agree, there is too many T&C. One of the other thing that made me question the whole program was that one of the candidates I was with, mentioned a friend signed up for PCP-RN too but failed. The parents had to sell their house to help her pay back the LD.

I think that was the thing that stuck to me the most. That your poor parents are stuck with a bad decision you made :(
 

Jokanga

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Hi all, just wanted to add in my two cents.

To be honest, I applied for PCP-RN as an "easy" way out of unemployment. However I did do ample research and asked many current nurses on their honest opinion on their jobs. I wanted to make an informed decision before I sign contract (if I was selected) despite needing a flow of income badly.

The interview process is as followed:

1. Group to be in a holding room
2. Group briefing by MOH personnel
3. Panel interview individually

While in the holding room, I chatted with a few other candidates - some were like me who were hoping to secure stability and some claimed to pursue their nursing passion.

Just out of curiosity, for any nurses who are reading this, I am not sure how one wakes up and knows instantly they want to embark in this career, or any other career for that matter. I am really quite interested to know how the passion sparked and if that passion sustains over time? For those that joined PCP, would you still look for other ways to join nursing if the PCP did not exist, or would you just drop the idea?

Continuing on. We went into the briefing and they informed us of several things:

1. To be fully aware that PCP requires 101% commitment from each candidate due to the accelerated coursework. They showed us a sample of our schedule for the next two years in tiny fonts - think of it as a show and tell session rather than us actually being able to see the paper and absorb the information. They did highlight that we will have very little time and to inform our family/spouses/children to understand that PCP comes first.

2. They then mentioned that the reason PCP has to come first is because of the LD that incurs. They phrased it in such a way that it is in everybody's best interest for the candidate to put PCP first so that everyone wins, in the sense that candidates do not incur LD and the employer gets a candidate by the time graduation has occurred.

3. During this time, it was then informed that should a candidate fail a module, repayment fee is the candidate's responsibility and sponsors will not pay you allowance for the term extension. At any point of time, you may get a letter saying that they will no longer need you to participate in this program. Even if this was their choice, you are still liable for LD.

4. They did tell us of a few candidates that dropped out due to their own personal commitment and/or those who were unable to cope with the accelerated version and are now in high debt. I would like to point that the way they mentioned this was in a very "matter of fact" way and with little to no sympathy. I asked on the candidate drop out rate and they seemed very hesitant to inform this but mentioned it was around 20% or 5 pax per intake.

5. Your actual salary after graduation is subjected to the sponsoring companies. Which means that you may or may not get lesser but they were upfront to mention that usually candidates can be around the $2000-$2200 range but again, graduate first and then see what you are offered. But if you think again, you don't really have a say. You sign the PCP contract, you just have to serve it out and seek better employment after that.

Next, we went into another holding room and wait to be called for panel interview. I would note that most are young students rather than actual mid career switchers. When I was called in, here was my experience:

1. They did not like my resume. They questioned why my qualifications are different than the jobs I have worked. This was apparently a concern for them as if I commit to PCP, the next 5 years is in a specified field and they felt that my employment record is a liability and it indicated I am unable to stick to a field.

2. They asked if I knew anything about nursing. I told them that I have asked others on their experience. They somehow took offence to this and said that no matter how many people I ask, I still will not know the exact job scope a nurse does through everyday. I told them that it is impossible for me to know exactly what a nurse goes through for the simple fact that I am not a nurse! That is where the two years study and clinical placement comes in to help me transition. They told me to volunteer in nursing homes and help clean patients etc to get a feel of what nurses to. I told them I was unaware of such programmes i.e. letting a volunteer with no professional qualification to help care for a patient. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen if this really exists!

3. They noted that I have employer testimonials and I said that I had close relationships with all my superiors and that this bond has enabled me to grow and develop my potential in each workplace. They did not like this as they said that to be a nurse, patients come first. In their words, "you cannot run to your supervisor to everything".

4. When they asked if I had any questions, I asked what was the support for nurses who wanted to further their studies as I understand nurses need to work long hours/shift. They answered accordingly but made a point to tell me that this question signifies I place an importance on myself rather than my patients and that was unacceptable.

All in all, they basically did not like that I was not a fresh faced graduate :s13:

I suppose they were looking for people who could just bow down to what they wanted to enforce and not talk back if there was unfairness happening. As you can tell, I obviously did not get into the program. I actually got into a different PCP which was more of OJT rather than "study first, work later". I enjoyed myself very much and it opened up more doors for me after I completed it.

To those that are thinking of going for the "study first, work later" kind of PCP, I would encourage you to do a thorough research on the career you want and if you can cope with the pressure. It is a good program on paper but the reality of it may or may not be just as great. Of course your own commitment is a factor, but ultimately I would just suggest for those interested to think first on how you will pay back the LD before you sign up. If you have nothing to lose, go for it.

Hi, for the PCP, did they call or email you to inform that you have gotten an interview?
Do you mind sharing which PCP you are in now?
And if it is not study first followed by working, then how does it work, meaning you are working and studying at the same time for the PCP programme that you are doing?
 

Kyoji83

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
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Messages
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I answer what I can before zidmosby reply you.


Hi, for the PCP, did they call or email you to inform that you have gotten an interview?


They will call you first to arrange interview date and time before they email you the detail.


Do you mind sharing which PCP you are in now?


For me, I was from PCP-RN.


And if it is not study first followed by working, then how does it work, meaning you are working and studying at the same time for the PCP programme that you are doing?


No way you can work first or work and study concurrently because you are not competent to work yet cause you do not have the practicing certificate.

You will study full time and part of the course are clinical placement (industry attachment) which you will 'OJT' as a Student taking care of real patients.
 

zidmosby

Senior Member
Joined
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Messages
610
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Hi, for the PCP, did they call or email you to inform that you have gotten an interview?
Do you mind sharing which PCP you are in now?
And if it is not study first followed by working, then how does it work, meaning you are working and studying at the same time for the PCP programme that you are doing?

Hi hi, sorry I did not realise there was a message posted. In case you're still looking for answers (and thanks kyoji for your two cents too :))

They called me first to inform that I have been shortlisted for an interview, and this was followed up with an email for interview details.

I did not get into nursing PCP. The one I shared was merely my interview experience. I got into a different PCP program for an executive role for a non profit industry. It was via direct hire, no bonds involved though I was contracted for 1 year role.

There are many different PCP. Every program will be different. Some are on the job training (which was the one I was doing), some are study first work later like nursing. I can't tell you everything on behalf of WSG as my information might be wrong, but if you take some time to browse through their website thoroughly, the information should be there.
 

menageatrois

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
139
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Come to think about all the sponsored PCP programmes, assuming you are the sponsored companies, will you let these trained professionals leave the country or to jump ship from one hospitals to another after serving their bonds?

I thought such programmes are great for anyone who is serious to consider a second career option. It may be the case at a first glance. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of underlying terms and conditions, clauses and unclear corners that are not seen easily.

I had once signed a bond with a company for 2 years. Reason being of such bond is that you work in their organisation, you have gained considerable working experience in exchange of the time. End of the bond, there is no rewards or anything. I suffered for almost 2 years due to their judgement on my poor work performance. I couldn't even leave or resign because the liquidated charges will be imposed on me. Till one day, they decided to release me without me paying any single cent. This is madness! From then on, I am extremely skeptical and wary about bonds, especially issues connected to the government organisations.

this is bad. even internship got pay and u take diploma/degree programme at least u got cert.
 
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